The Godsrain Prophecies Part Five

Wednesday, March 6, 2024

One interesting line of thought that I have yet to formally consider goes beyond the question of whether these “prophecies” should be considered equally as a whole to whether the whole of each of them should be equally considered. If, for example, I dismiss the effects of a particular god’s supposed death, does this mean that I am dismissing their prophesied death altogether? Does every part of a prophecy have to come true for it to be considered prophetic? If the vast majority proves true, what is wrong could be an error of translation, interpretation, or prophetic understanding. On the other hand, if most of a prophecy is false, what is accurate is likely a lucky guess. The Windsong Corollaries never reach this sort of sentence-level consideration (a gap that I might perhaps publish a small paper in when my Lady does not need me, so long as I keep things strictly theoretical). I expect a reading of Beyond Aroden: Failed Foretelling in the Age of Prophecy is in short order to establish a bit of a baseline, but it will be up to my Lady (with my assistance, I hope!) to determine what level of possibility and accuracy any of these must have to be fully considered a work of prophecy.

–Yivali, Apprentice Researcher for the Lady of Graves




The Death of Erastil

Erastil runs. Gallops really. Hoof over hoof, his antlers gleaming, bounding over shallow stream and whirling under tree branch, his body flying forward in a streak of joyous motion. He cannot always be the stag, but there are times he needs to run and feel the wind across his legs, familiar as the dawn but as new as any sunrise. He runs until he’s just past tired and ready for a drink of water, shaking leaves from antlers in a spray of autumn colors and transforming back into the form his followers are used to—horned head and wiry body of an age-old master hunter.

But he is not the only age-old creature resting in this wood. Something emerges, slowly, from a refuge it has tired of, assorted sharp and fleshy parts dragging its pouch of hunger up from somewhere down below. Even Erastil’s well-trained eyes do not quite see it slowly crawling, clawing onto haunch and belly, drawing closer to the god and waiting for the perfect moment. Not until the instant that it rises up to strike.

Erastil runs. Scrambles really. Step after step, bow at the ready, preparing even as he flees, trampling through a clutch of bushes, plunging through the river’s cold, trying to stay ahead until he whirls around to face what hunts him, show it that he’s unafraid. But there are things that even Old Deadeye has no defense against. And when that something catches him, its jaw wide and devouring, it turns what once was hunting god to nothing more than helpless prey, only stopping its ravaging to marvel at the flavor. There’s something here it’s never savored, in between the crunch and squelch—divinely filling in a way that it has never known before and now can never be without. Once it has consumed its meal and all that’s left is bits of bone, it scents the air and twists its body, reveling in the aftertaste of something past mortality, and lurches through the undergrowth to find another morsel.

Followers of Erastil who felt his blessings fade track his remaining footprints to the place he fought and fell. (There’s luck in that, or Jaidi’s hand, steady despite a widow’s grief, putting firm hands against their backs until they find whatever place his hint of dust remains.) A hunt is called, a holy ride, in honor of the fallen god, to track and take whatever beast has left their altars bare. But all they find across their path are other grieving worshippers whose gods (most small in name and reach, their purpose only known by handfuls) now are merely carcasses, devoured by some wretched beast that no one ever glimpses. The Hunters offer shelter and a purpose to these wanderers, and some find comfort in the endless chase across the Great Beyond, even as they never seem to find the subject of their search. Whatever killed Erastil, whatever hunts the other gods, is always hidden from their view, is always one quick turn away, is always adding to the trail of carnage just ahead.

The gods take notice of the beast, each readying their own defense. Some draw together, forming pacts and promising to shield each other—the radiance of the Dawnflower reaches the realm of the Midnight Lord, Norgorber and Iomedae draw swords with Cayden Cailean, the half-abandoned Summerlands fill up with frightened deities—but others use the moment as the perfect time to strike. Gorum turns on the cowardly and sharpens blades against their backs, Asmodeus carves clauses into those he has a contract with, Calistria builds safety from the ashes of revenge. Pantheons rise and fall and splinter in the shadow of the beast, endlessly repositioning even when it has gone to ground, its hunger sated only briefly every new time that it feeds.

Among the mortals, fear takes root as one god or another falls, and those who live are sometimes absent, too caught up in safety to give followers their strength. Some flourish in these absences that gods might once have kept in check, selling hope or cruelty as counters to divinity, creating order from the chaos any way they can. And when the gods grow used to fear and venture back into the world (beast still lurking in the corners, drooling at the prey), some find their temples turned to rubble, dusty from years of disuse, or built over to some new purpose they can barely recognize, and must now find a new path in a half-godless Golarion, even as something in the shadows starts to hunt

An array of 20 portraits depicting the gods of the Pathfinder setting. Asmodeus, Cayden Cailean, Erastil, Pharasma, and Urgathoa’s portraits have been marked “safe.”

When the god of the hunt falls prey to an unknown hunter, what chance do the beast’s other quarries have of avoiding a similar fate?





Much as I found it distasteful to read about, I wish this supposed prophecy had gone into greater detail about this “beast” with what I suppose is a taste for divine flesh (a prospect I can barely conceive of, let alone comment on!). While I did attempt to use my rudimentary artistic talents to create some sort of sketch, even my best guess at the appearance of this beast has fallen quite short, as it matches nothing I am currently aware of. Either my skills are not up to the task, the prophecy has purposefully been vague, or this beast has never been seen before. If the latter, this is yet another reason to doubt this prophecy in particular. Anything this powerful would surely be noted in someone’s annals. Beyond that, though, the breakdown of the gods noted here seems very unlikely. In both my studies and experiences of the gods, I have found them to be quite devoted to those who worship them (each in their own way, of course), even when to their own detriment. No matter how horrible the threat, I do not believe mortals would be abandoned in this way, nor that they would abandon their gods in return. Or, at least, I do not wish to believe it. Best, I think, to move on to some new, and hopefully less troubling, prophecy.


About the Author

Erin Roberts has been thrilled to be able to contribute a few small threads to the fabric of Golarion in the pages of books like Lost Omens Firebrands, Lost Omens Highhelm, and Lost Omens Travel Guide. In addition to her work for Paizo, she freelances across the TTRPG world (and was selected as a Diana Jones Award Emerging Designer Program Winner in 2023), has had fiction published in magazines including Asimov’s, Clarkesworld, and The Dark, and talks about writing every week on the Writing Excuses podcast. Catch up with her latest at linktr.ee/erinroberts.

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Tags: The Godsrain Prophecies Pathfinder Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Web Fiction
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Mark Moreland wrote:

Fun behind-the-scenes fact that I'm sure you'll all love:

** spoiler omitted **

You're welcome!

Further thought on this one.

Spoiler:
So, it might be that none of them dies. It might be that one of them dies and gets replaced by Arazni. What it isn't is "something something Zon-Kuthon dies, Shelyn gets character development as a result."

That said, the fact that ZK and Sarenrae were able to actually work together was weird, and suggests that there may be ZK-related developments that aren't all about him dying. Like, if there's any truth to these things at all (and this bit you've just posted suggests that there's at least a little) then the idea that he was working together with a deity who had combo of "Edict: seek and allow redemption" and "Anathema: fail to strike down evil" suggests that ZK may be going a bit more grey, or at least has that capacity.


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keftiu wrote:

Urgathoa's is the odd one out here, as she seemed to almost welcome her end.

I wonder what that means.

That, ironically, could actually be her fear, to just stop being invested in her own survival. Not to seek death outright, but just to adopt an attitude of "you know what, if it happens, it happens".

The prophecy starts by describing how Urgathoa didn't even bother setting up proper defenses around her feast. Once she became more interested in her feasts than in her own survival, her death was just a matter of time.

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Sy Kerraduess wrote:
keftiu wrote:

Urgathoa's is the odd one out here, as she seemed to almost welcome her end.

I wonder what that means.

That, ironically, could actually be her fear, to just stop being invested in her own survival. Not to seek death outright, but just to adopt an attitude of "you know what, if it happens, it happens".

The prophecy starts by describing how Urgathoa didn't even bother setting up proper defenses around her feast. Once she became more interested in her feasts than in her own survival, her death was just a matter of time.

VERY good point. o-o


Huh oh now THAT'S something I'd never considered; about him in his aspect as god of hunting, not just agriculture.

And here, it's not about "what if Erastil dies", but rather "if XYZ kills him, what effect will that have". Kind of like the Cayden one, actually. But there's a thematic connection here; "what if he gets killed by some beast", and "beasts" don't really stop killing once they've gotten a taste for it.

So. New tentative metric for this. There's gods where "the very fact of them dying" means all hell breaks loose, metaphorically, like Ur-whatsit and Pharasma. Then there's gods where it's the MANNER of their death, and what that MEANS, an causes problems, like Erastil here and Cayden. (Asmodeus... not sure where to categorize his story, prolly need more data points to populate a third category.)

Hm. A thought. There's a definite trend of "these are possibly the deep fears of the god in question", but I don't think that's the actual reasoning; I think it's more likely that "something an could result in a god's death, and feels like it fits thematically" has a strong correlation with "things an that god would prolly fear".

And since I should prolly get this written down: the god I most WANT it to be the one who dies, is Nethys (COME ON HE'S ALREADY JUST ONE WRONG MOVE AWAY FROM EXPLODING AT EVERY MOMENT), but the one I think it's most LIKELY to be is Sarenrae or Iomedae. Because "it would totally mess with their iconics!" could be a feature not a bug.

Someone mentioned Achaekek; I hope he survives the event, if only because "his major curse is that he personally kills you" is hilarious.


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Mark Moreland wrote:
Interesting

Well played, "Director of Brand Strategy". >.>

Evil little hype-gremlin.


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rimestocke wrote:

I have a soft spot for Erastil so I'm glad he's safe! I really loved the bit about The Hunters and them coming across others like them who were similarly victimized by their deities getting eaten and giving them a sense of community.

But also cracking up at the image of Sarenrae and Zon-Kuthon forming a defense pact together. I'm trying to picture it and my brain just scrambles itself lol.

Call their pantheon the Solar Eclipse.


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Elfteiroh wrote:
So... A beast that could eat gods, but have yet to do so before eating Erastil... Anyone else remember Five Points/Eyes from a couple years ago? And how it was hinted at in more than one web fiction, but it never came back? It was eating dragons as snacks... :O

I've been wondering if those hints had ever been incorporated into an adventure or storyline somewhere. We've heard a lot about how the choice of god who dies long predates the remaster (hence Asmodeus remaining plausible but not damned at the time)--it may well be that this has been in the works since before 2e itself!

--

Incidentally, hints at the changes to Prismatic Ray can only mean that Zon-Kuthon is meant to join the happy throuple. A little shadow to add contrast to the light, and also bringing with him an appreciation for the finer points of kink.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Jan Caltrop wrote:
Someone mentioned Achaekek; I hope he survives the event, if only because "his major curse is that he personally kills you" is hilarious.

You know, people often make jokes about Achaekek's major curse, but honestly I think it's a crime that's all people look at, instead of the full set which makes it even better. Like, usually the minor is "Some slap on the wrist which'll hurt", the moderate is "something really really annoying that'll force you to course correct, but nothing vital" and the major "Something that will either end up killing you, or at the very least destroy your life"

Meanwhile, with Achaekek we have:
Minor: Achaekek gets insects to try to kill you
Moderate: Achaekek hires a hitman to kill you
Major: Achaekek kills you personally

It's all just increasing levels of "Achaekek tries to kill you", with the extra spice that honestly... only the minor involves an actual curse. The moderate is particularly amazing barely magical, outside him finding your location & giving someone a message he's literally just hiring a hitman same as any mortal might do (I guess also outside the fact that there's no explicit pay given the hitman works for him already).


And now I'm back to the theory that says the general theme of the Godsrain is that the "dead" gods are overcome by what they most fear.

In the case of Urgathoa, it's someone she incidentally helped hurt coming back to haunt her, and her death stopping the party forever.

Which is leading me to believe the writer might be deeply linked to Zon-Kuthon and is teaching the gods to embrace the supposed negative emotion of fear to learn from it, or a calculated taunt ("See? You've got your own angsts too").


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rimestocke wrote:
But also cracking up at the image of Sarenrae and Zon-Kuthon forming a defense pact together. I'm trying to picture it and my brain just scrambles itself lol.

Goths in hot weather. Sarenrae goes wild and gets a nose ring and a brow piercing. It's spring break all over again.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I do kinda hope Prismatic Ray change isn't Nocticula joining it or something. That would kinda feel out of nowhere since Nocticula doesn't really have major thing with any of three. Arazni would similarly feel out of nowhere.

Like if its god joining the pantheon, I hope its someone who both makes sense and has connection to them and not something that feels like a "I'd think it'd look good" ship.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Erastil is safe! Woot! My level 10 cleric, Oeron Whitescar, rejoices. :)


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Anyway, the Beast is probably just Drokalion. Remember to feed your pets before going to sleep at night.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Poor Erastil. I know people call him a boring deity but even in his own what-if story he's basically an afterthought...


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Jan Caltrop wrote:

Huh oh now THAT'S something I'd never considered; about him in his aspect as god of hunting, not just agriculture.

And here, it's not about "what if Erastil dies", but rather "if XYZ kills him, what effect will that have". Kind of like the Cayden one, actually. But there's a thematic connection here; "what if he gets killed by some beast", and "beasts" don't really stop killing once they've gotten a taste for it.

So. New tentative metric for this. There's gods where "the very fact of them dying" means all hell breaks loose, metaphorically, like Ur-whatsit and Pharasma. Then there's gods where it's the MANNER of their death, and what that MEANS, an causes problems, like Erastil here and Cayden. (Asmodeus... not sure where to categorize his story, prolly need more data points to populate a third category.)

Hm. A thought. There's a definite trend of "these are possibly the deep fears of the god in question", but I don't think that's the actual reasoning; I think it's more likely that "something an could result in a god's death, and feels like it fits thematically" has a strong correlation with "things an that god would prolly fear".

And since I should prolly get this written down: the god I most WANT it to be the one who dies, is Nethys (COME ON HE'S ALREADY JUST ONE WRONG MOVE AWAY FROM EXPLODING AT EVERY MOMENT), but the one I think it's most LIKELY to be is Sarenrae or Iomedae. Because "it would totally mess with their iconics!" could be a feature not a bug.

Someone mentioned Achaekek; I hope he survives the event, if only because "his major curse is that he personally kills you" is hilarious.

My bets are on Nethys here. His holidays are based on the old traditions of magic entirely, and will have lost relevance. The only other gods which are relics of 3.5E/DnD on the list are safe. Now, I wonder what death Nethys would fear. Would it be the one move away from exploding? Some magicless death? The idea of someone taking Nethys out to the shed and shooting the old magic system with a gun is hilarious to me, not going to lie.


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Garrett Guillotte wrote:
Anyway, the Beast is probably just Drokalion. Remember to feed your pets before going to sleep at night.

We can only hope for an Iblydos book.


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I tend to suspect "not Nethys" if only because it would make things weird with the archive.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

One sort of interesting thing here is that a couple of them seem to deal with the divine consequences of deicide and the others don't.

Urgathoa and Pharasma's deaths both fundamentally change the fabric of the setting on a cosmological scale, while the other deities' deaths don't really seem to have any broader implications outside their immediate significance (Asmodeus' leads to a lot of changes, but they're more political than metaphysical).

Not sure if that's just a writing choice, or an implication that some of the divine portfolios just aren't as important.

Of course, the whole thing is an in-universe narrator examining what-if scenarios written by another in-universe figure, so the whole thing could be written in some twisted and unreliable way to begin with (like zezia's observations earlier in this thread that many of these stories portray the followers of the fallen deity as incompetent or capricious).

keftiu wrote:
Urgathoa's is the odd one out here, as she seemed to almost welcome her end.

One thing that sort of stands out to me is there's a bit of a subversion of her principles. Urgathoa is a survivor who abhors the idea of any kind of self sacrifice... and while her end isn't sacrificial, there's something somewhat ironic about her actual death being the thing that breaks cycle of life and death, which is sort of a win condition for her.


Eldritch Yodel wrote:
Jan Caltrop wrote:
Someone mentioned Achaekek; I hope he survives the event, if only because "his major curse is that he personally kills you" is hilarious.

You know, people often make jokes about Achaekek's major curse, but honestly I think it's a crime that's all people look at, instead of the full set which makes it even better. Like, usually the minor is "Some slap on the wrist which'll hurt", the moderate is "something really really annoying that'll force you to course correct, but nothing vital" and the major "Something that will either end up killing you, or at the very least destroy your life"

Meanwhile, with Achaekek we have:
Minor: Achaekek gets insects to try to kill you
Moderate: Achaekek hires a hitman to kill you
Major: Achaekek kills you personally

It's all just increasing levels of "Achaekek tries to kill you", with the extra spice that honestly... only the minor involves an actual curse. The moderate is particularly amazing barely magical, outside him finding your location & giving someone a message he's literally just hiring a hitman same as any mortal might do (I guess also outside the fact that there's no explicit pay given the hitman works for him already).

...huh, you're right; that's even BETTER. That's what happens when you overlook the rest of the joke and focus only on the punchline. I mean. Not that it's ACTUALLY a joke, but same principle.


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Five prophecies down, and five to go.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The white space between Torag’s face and arm look like a gauntlet.

Paizo Employee Software Architect

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Sanityfaerie wrote:
I tend to suspect "not Nethys" if only because it would make things weird with the archive.

"The god is dead, but the archive remains."


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Saedar wrote:
rimestocke wrote:

I have a soft spot for Erastil so I'm glad he's safe! I really loved the bit about The Hunters and them coming across others like them who were similarly victimized by their deities getting eaten and giving them a sense of community.

But also cracking up at the image of Sarenrae and Zon-Kuthon forming a defense pact together. I'm trying to picture it and my brain just scrambles itself lol.

Call their pantheon the Solar Eclipse.

A total eclipse of the heart?

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Somebody better pick up that phone 'CAUSE I FREAKIN' CALLED IT!!!


Wymond stirs and shakes his head, looking up from his bedroll up at the eerie glow of the Emerald Spire.

"Dark dream, that was," he mutters. "Thank every god an' his mother it was just that."

He holds up his small wooden medallion.

"Erastil, thank ye for protectin' me, welcomin' me into yer home when I was dead, at least until they brought me back, even if I was different after it. Thank ye for givin' me the strength to protect both the family I came from an' the one I've found fightin' through this dungeon. An' when I do return to the Summerlands to hunt alongside ye, I hope I can do the same for ye."

And then he goes back to sleep.


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The 'Beast" sounds like Nyarlathotep, the outer god with a thousand forms would most certainly have something matching this story's disciption. Plus his whole theme is spreading chaos from the shadows...and well Chaos is what certainly following in the "Beasts" wake.


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Erast-who?


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Magus Black wrote:
The 'Beast" sounds like Nyarlathotep, the outer god with a thousand forms would most certainly have something matching this story's disciption. Plus his whole theme is spreading chaos from the shadows...and well Chaos is what certainly following in the "Beasts" wake.

From Luis Loza on Twitter:

"There isn't any art for the monster described in this prophecy, since it's meant to be a brand new terror. I'd love to see the community's takes on what it looks like! It could be a fun way to come together and expand on the prophecy a bit!"

And then he posted a funny little picture! :V

So whatever this beast is, it is brand new. Not Nyarlathotep, not Rovagug. Some kind of new thing. Maybe we'll see them as one of the new mythic rule threats in "War of Immortals"!


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Parry wrote:
Saedar wrote:
rimestocke wrote:

I have a soft spot for Erastil so I'm glad he's safe! I really loved the bit about The Hunters and them coming across others like them who were similarly victimized by their deities getting eaten and giving them a sense of community.

But also cracking up at the image of Sarenrae and Zon-Kuthon forming a defense pact together. I'm trying to picture it and my brain just scrambles itself lol.

Call their pantheon the Solar Eclipse.
A total eclipse of the heart?

Every now and then it falls apart.


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Hunting, hunger, coalitions of gods across alignment boundaries to fight it -- if this entity isn't Rovagug, it screams "Daemon" to me. I want more Daemon content, Paizo!


rainzax wrote:

They did one from each row!

(suspicious)

There's two in the second column, and one in the others.


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If you take the first letters of each of the reviled gods in order not including pharasma as that placement was a birthday present, you get acue, or the American Committee on United Europe, an anti communist organization. What god is the most Anti communist? Thats right, Abadar. He will be killed by Lenin after he is summoned from earth.


Ilkash wrote:
Hunting, hunger, coalitions of gods across alignment boundaries to fight it -- if this entity isn't Rovagug, it screams "Daemon" to me. I want more Daemon content, Paizo!

As a fan who came in with 2e, I still feel like I barely know daemons and the Horsemen... but I know some 1e fans really love them. I'd welcome this being their big apocalypse push!


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

*Yawn*

With no complaint against the writer, this one felt almost 'phoned-in', like it was being written to spec or something.

Felt really flat compared to some of the other ones.

Same time, that might be colored by my disappointment at the likely retention of Erastil.


keftiu wrote:
As a fan who came in with 2e, I still feel like I barely know daemons and the Horsemen... but I know some 1e fans really love them. I'd welcome this being their big apocalypse push!

Honestly, same. I've been reading Chainsaw Man for a while now, and I'd like to see more classic apocalypse stories.

Also, is Daemon pronounced Day-mon or Dee-mon?


Stormlord506 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
As a fan who came in with 2e, I still feel like I barely know daemons and the Horsemen... but I know some 1e fans really love them. I'd welcome this being their big apocalypse push!

Honestly, same. I've been reading Chainsaw Man for a while now, and I'd like to see more classic apocalypse stories.

Also, is Daemon pronounced Day-mon or Dee-mon?

Considering there are also Demons, Day-mon. I know a bit about them, but that's mostly about how the Horsemen want an end to all mortal life, and a bit about a few of the harbingers. That, and death by paperwork: Bibliodaemon.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Stormlord506 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
As a fan who came in with 2e, I still feel like I barely know daemons and the Horsemen... but I know some 1e fans really love them. I'd welcome this being their big apocalypse push!

Honestly, same. I've been reading Chainsaw Man for a while now, and I'd like to see more classic apocalypse stories.

Also, is Daemon pronounced Day-mon or Dee-mon?

The opposite of a Daemon is a Nightmon.


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Unicore wrote:
Stormlord506 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
As a fan who came in with 2e, I still feel like I barely know daemons and the Horsemen... but I know some 1e fans really love them. I'd welcome this being their big apocalypse push!

Honestly, same. I've been reading Chainsaw Man for a while now, and I'd like to see more classic apocalypse stories.

Also, is Daemon pronounced Day-mon or Dee-mon?
The opposite of a Daemon is a Nightmon.

Champion of the sun~

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmm does four count as bingo in this one or only 5? ;D


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keftiu wrote:
Unicore wrote:
Stormlord506 wrote:
keftiu wrote:
As a fan who came in with 2e, I still feel like I barely know daemons and the Horsemen... but I know some 1e fans really love them. I'd welcome this being their big apocalypse push!

Honestly, same. I've been reading Chainsaw Man for a while now, and I'd like to see more classic apocalypse stories.

Also, is Daemon pronounced Day-mon or Dee-mon?
The opposite of a Daemon is a Nightmon.
Champion of the sun~

Master of karate, and FRIENDSHIP.

Liberty's Edge

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For once, a deity I thought would have a What If gets one. I could not even keep up my perfect steak of failures.

Liberty's Edge

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

*Yawn*

With no complaint against the writer, this one felt almost 'phoned-in', like it was being written to spec or something.

Felt really flat compared to some of the other ones.

Same time, that might be colored by my disappointment at the likely retention of Erastil.

When I first read it, it did feel flat compared to the previous ones but it rapidly grew on me.

So, still well done in my book.

The death of the hunter at the claws of a primeval beast that then becomes a pure hunter of deities. And how both mortals and deities struggle to adapt.

Liberty's Edge

Ilkash wrote:
Hunting, hunger, coalitions of gods across alignment boundaries to fight it -- if this entity isn't Rovagug, it screams "Daemon" to me. I want more Daemon content, Paizo!

TBT it reminded me of the Bound Prince, but his lore and the description here do not completely fit.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
The Raven Black wrote:


The death of the hunter at the claws of a primeval beast that then becomes a pure hunter of deities. And how both mortals and deities struggle to adapt.

My only real gripe is that instead of being a prophecy about the death of Erastil it's more like the prophecy of a monster that happens to kill Erastil along with a bunch of other deities.

It's supposed to be his story but you could take him out of it and wouldn't have to even change much. The story is very interesting but I feel like it doesn't do quite enough with the brief for me.

Liberty's Edge

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Squiggit wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:


The death of the hunter at the claws of a primeval beast that then becomes a pure hunter of deities. And how both mortals and deities struggle to adapt.

My only real gripe is that instead of being a prophecy about the death of Erastil it's more like the prophecy of a monster that happens to kill Erastil along with a bunch of other deities.

It's supposed to be his story but you could take him out of it and wouldn't have to even change much. The story is very interesting but I feel like it doesn't do quite enough with the brief for me.

It is more the story of his legacy IMO. But I think Old Deadeye would approve.

Liberty's Edge

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Ezekieru wrote:
Magus Black wrote:
The 'Beast" sounds like Nyarlathotep, the outer god with a thousand forms would most certainly have something matching this story's disciption. Plus his whole theme is spreading chaos from the shadows...and well Chaos is what certainly following in the "Beasts" wake.

From Luis Loza on Twitter:

"There isn't any art for the monster described in this prophecy, since it's meant to be a brand new terror. I'd love to see the community's takes on what it looks like! It could be a fun way to come together and expand on the prophecy a bit!"

And then he posted a funny little picture! :V

So whatever this beast is, it is brand new. Not Nyarlathotep, not Rovagug. Some kind of new thing. Maybe we'll see them as one of the new mythic rule threats in "War of Immortals"!

I wonder which other parts of the previous prophecies end up actually being true in the current setting. Maybe Cayden's flask of distilled divinity ? Arazni trying to kill Urgathoa ? Ihys influencing Asmodeus ?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Stormlord506 wrote:
Also, is Daemon pronounced Day-mon or Dee-mon?

In real life, dee-mon. In settings with the Monster Manual in their evolutionary DNA, day-mon.


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keftiu wrote:
Ilkash wrote:
Hunting, hunger, coalitions of gods across alignment boundaries to fight it -- if this entity isn't Rovagug, it screams "Daemon" to me. I want more Daemon content, Paizo!
As a fan who came in with 2e, I still feel like I barely know daemons and the Horsemen... but I know some 1e fans really love them. I'd welcome this being their big apocalypse push!

Oh yeah, I'm one of their big fans. I love the flavor of horror that they bring to the Pathfinder cosmology, and the concept that evil -- in its purest form -- is wanting all life outside of oneself to cease. They want to reduce the multiverse to a wrecked tomb.

I use daemons heavily in my campaigns that deal with evil outsiders just because they're so much spookier and more existentially threatening than anything else the Lower Planes have to offer. Check out Amber Stewart's Book of the Damned Vol. 3 if you want more info about them!


Ilkash wrote:
I use daemons heavily in my campaigns that deal with evil outsiders just because they're so much spookier and more existentially threatening than anything else the Lower Planes have to offer.

But how are they worse than demons? Those are bad enough, I suppose.


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Errenor wrote:
Ilkash wrote:
I use daemons heavily in my campaigns that deal with evil outsiders just because they're so much spookier and more existentially threatening than anything else the Lower Planes have to offer.
But how are they worse than demons? Those are bad enough, I suppose.

Demons embody mortal sins. They want to create a horrible future for the Material Plane; a universe ruled by demons where the strong do as they please and the weak suffer as they must. Think of Alex Delarge from A Clockwork Orange, or of a hedonistic serial killer or degenerate Emperor that only thinks about satisfying their depraved urges. Demons want mortals to keep existing so they can, as Lovecraft put it, "teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom." This kind of behavior, not coincidentally, creates more demons when these corrupted mortals eventually die.

Daemons embody death and oblivion. They are omnicidal nihilistic soul devourers, and they want to annihilate all life -- mortal and immortal -- in the entire multiverse (including, in the end, themselves). They are (or were) Neutral Evil not because they consider neutrality to be a good thing on its own, but because they will adopt lawful or chaotic attitudes as needed in order to expedite their true goal, which is the End of All Things. There is no reasoning with daemons. Demons and Devils might kill you. Daemons will kill you, and then they'll eat your soul and make you cease to exist entirely.

Also, canonically, Daemons created the first Demon by feeding an abyssal larva to a qlippoth, and then the Abyss noticed and instantly created the rest of the Demon race.

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