Pathfinder Society and the Remaster

Thursday, October 26, 2023

Ever since we announced the Pathfinder Remaster project, my inbox has not known peace. Every day I get asked by the Pathfinders worldwide, “how will Pathfinder Society handle the Remaster?” Every day I must give the same answer, “I don’t know yet! Ask me in 1d4 months!”

It’s now 1d4 months later and I can finally start to answer this question! With the assistance of some incredibly dedicated Additional Resources volunteers and no less than six members of Paizo staff, we are here today to present the broad strokes of our plan to convert (or not convert) your Pathfinder Society characters to the brand-new Remastered rules. While we don’t intend for our scenarios to be written using the Remastered rules until Year 6 begins at Gen Con 2024, we know the characters will need to make the switch faster.

Before we get into it, I’d like to offer a couple of disclaimers. First, the rules we’re sharing today are the broad strokes. There will be more specifics to come on release date, but we’re still working our way through specific questions like “what happens to my staff of transmutation now that transmutation isn’t a school?” We’re sharing this today to get you ready for what’s to come.

Second, these rules are still in flux. We have a pile of questions yet to answer internally (we’re having weekly meetings to do nothing but answer them), and we expect more will come from the community as time goes on. We expect this to happen! Our intention is for these guidelines to live in a subpage of the Guide to Organized Play, to allow them to be a living document we’ll update as time goes on.

Finally, we will not be able to answer every single question that comes up. Rules discrepancies and questions come up all the time at tables, and the Remaster will increase the odds of that happening. The GM always has the power to make calls on rules questions at the table. While we strive for the Pathfinder Society experience to play out the same at every table worldwide, we need to accept as a community that there will be some variance, and be patient with each other as we figure things out. This is a game, we’re here to have fun, let’s all keep that in mind as we play!

With all that out of the way, here are the current planned guidelines for Pathfinder Society and the Remaster. If you have questions/comments/concerns, drop them in the comments of this blog and we’ll do our best to answer them. Once the Remaster drops, we’ll create a separate thread in the Pathfinder Society forum for those specific rules interactions that we won’t discover until they come up in play.

Alex Speidel
Organized Play Coordinator

Ezren looking over plans and judges them.



Objectives

When considering the Pathfinder Remaster, our intent is as follows:

  • To ensure that players are not forced to rebuild characters
  • To ensure that as much previous material as feasible is still useable
  • To incentivize adoption of the new, Remastered ruleset
  • To provide an optional method to rebuild characters into Remaster rules

General Guidance

  1. Game Rules
    1. Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible.
      1. Example: Recall Knowledge has been updated with additional guidelines. These take effect immediately at all PFS tables.
      2. Example: The Refocus activity and the focus spell rules have been updated to be more intuitive. All characters immediately begin using these rules.
      3. Example: Monster abilities such as Grab are no longer automatic, but allow a free skill check to attempt the action. GMs immediately begin using this new version of the rules.
  2. Character Options
    1. Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core.
      1. This affects the following classes: bard, cleric, druid, fighter, ranger, rogue, witch, wizard.
      2. Characters with at least 1 game reported prior to November 15 may be built using the Core Rulebook chassis.
      3. Previously-existing characters with at least 1 game reported may continue their progression using the Core Rulebook chassis. They may not use the chassis in the Player Core without rebuilding.
    2. If a character option has been reprinted with the same name, use the new version as if it were errata. No additional retraining is necessary.
      1. Example: divine lance has been reprinted with new Remaster-compatible rules. All PCs with divine lance must update the spell accordingly.
    3. If a character option has not been reprinted, characters are free to use the option as previously printed, or to select it at any time.
      1. Example: the brooch of shielding has not been reprinted. Characters may still purchase and use a brooch of shielding.
      2. Example: the produce flame spell has not been reprinted, but ignition takes its place thematically. Characters may learn either spell anytime they would learn a new spell, and could learn both spells if they chose.
      3. Example: the oracle class has not yet been remastered. Players may still build and play oracles using the rules in the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide.
  1. An oracle who learns divine lance must still use the remastered version of the spell.

Specific Rules

  1. Alignment: Alignment has been removed from the game. PCs and NPCs no longer have alignment.
    1. Edicts and Anathema: To replace certain aspects of alignment, edicts and anathema are being emphasized. These are voluntary and optional, though deities and classes may introduce specific edicts and anathema which are not optional.
    2. Holy and Unholy: Many previously-aligned options now have either the holy, unholy, or sanctified traits. At a GM’s discretion, enemy abilities which previously had the good or evil traits may now have the holy or unholy trait.
      1. Example: A quasit’s strikes previously had the evil trait. A GM may choose to give them the unholy trait, as quasits are demonic creatures. Similarly, a quasit’s weakness to good should now be considered a weakness to holy.
  2. Wizards
    1. Wizards built using the Core Rulebook chassis may continue to treat spells that had their spell school removed as part of the Remaster as if they have spell schools. They must otherwise fully update their remastered spells.
      1. Example: An evocation wizard may still select electric arc as an evocation cantrip. They must use the new damage as printed in the Player Core.
    2. Wizards built using the Core Rulebook chassis may learn new spells printed in remastered books, but they can never treat them as having a school spell if they did not previously have one.
    3. Runelords
      1. On November 15, 2023, the Runelord boon will be removed from the Achievement Points store. No new Runelords may be created after this date until/unless the archetype is reprinted.
  3. Campaign-Specific Rules and Clarifications
    1. Pathfinder Society characters may not be sanctified to unholy. This is the spiritual successor to the previous rule forbidding PCs of evil alignment.

Rebuilding

  1. On November 15, 2023, all characters with at least one game reported are granted one free rebuild. This is a full rebuild; you may completely alter a character’s ancestry, class, background, and any options selected. You may not alter the adventures a character has participated in, nor may you alter a character’s Reputation earned.
  2. Upon rebuilding, your character starts with gold equal to Table X.X[Alex note: this table will be published with the full rules, and is built on our baseline assumption of earning 8 TB per scenario].
    1. Alternatively, a player character may sell any and all currently-held items at face value and purchase new items as normal.
  3. If you use this rebuild, indicate “Remaster Rebuild” on your character’s most recent Chronicle Sheet.
  4. If, in the course of this rebuild, you wish to refund any purchased boons, please email orgplayreportingerrors[at]paizo[dot]com with your character’s name, OP ID and character number, and the boon(s) you would like to refund.
  5. This rebuild must be used before December 31, 2024. A second rebuild of this type will not be granted following the release of Player Core 2.



One Final Change

While this isn’t a direct result of the Remaster, we’re taking the opportunity to make another change. Beginning on November 15, we will be removing the Pathfinder Training from the Guide to Organized Play. Your characters who are already Field Commissioned may still take bonus downtime, and we’re not going to take away the bonus Lores or feats your characters may have already gained. However, new characters may not use this system. Quite simply, it’s an extra layer of complexity that most players aren’t engaging with, and that doesn’t add much to the program.

However, we know everybody loves free items, so they will remain in the form of Pathfinder Provisions! We’ll have a pared-down list of consumables which all agents (including formerly Field Commissioned agents) may choose from at the start of a mission. By default agents will receive healing potions, though they may choose another item or items if they prefer. The Society wants to ensure its agents come home safe!

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Organized Play Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition Pathfinder Society
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Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Tomppa wrote:
Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.
HMM wrote:
Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?
This actually already exists :D The lore you get from the PFS training replaces the default PFS lore that all Pathfinders get as part of the character creation. If you don't choose a school, you get PFS lore automatically :D

Thanks for stating this, I thought I lived in bizarroworld for a minute where I imagined that. Yeah, there's the free PFS Lore and Regional language everyone forgets, and then schools were on top of that.

Personally, I think it'd be great to just open up that to a free lore of your choice from the list that schools usually gave, and as previously stated, make boons for the other "school bonuses"

I know I'd spend ACP for the benefits schools give today

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Tomppa wrote:
Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.
HMM wrote:
Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?
This actually already exists :D The lore you get from the PFS training replaces the default PFS lore that all Pathfinders get as part of the character creation. If you don't choose a school, you get PFS lore automatically :D

Huh, TIL. Thanks!

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

2 people marked this as a favorite.
KingTreyIII wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core.
What about the Advanced Player’s Guide? Is that likewise being phased out in a similar way?

Ask me about Player Core 2 in nine months.

KingTreyIII wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:

If a character option has not been reprinted, characters are free to use the option as previously printed, or to select it at any time.

1. Example: the brooch of shielding has not been reprinted. Characters may still purchase and use a brooch of shielding.

I presume that if a character DOES do the Remaster rebuild, then this option is waived? So if I rebuild my wizard to be in line with the Remaster, then I can no longer purchase a brooch of shielding?

No, you still can. The purpose of the remaster rebuild would be to use the new chassis like the new wizard schools, upgraded proficiency, etc.

3/5 *

I have 3 concerns:

1) Characters from the Core 2 book that are created after November 15 but before Core 2 won't, by this, have a Remaster Rebuild to change themselves. This is a non-issue if they're granted specific free rebuilds when Core 2 comes out.

2) I for one will miss the Pathfinder Training. It gave an extra bit of customization for my characters, and I would certainly want those characters already made but below level 5 to get their bonus feat, as I often count those in when planning my characters.

3) I'm a little wary on the Field Commisions keeping their bonus downtime but also getting items. It sounds like it would behoove everyone to transfer their characters into Field Commissioned people prior to Nov 15th. I'm not generally a huge fan of systems where there is one always-best choice.

I would like to say, that there is also a lot to like about the switchover guidelines above, and I appreciate that!


Tomppa wrote:
Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.
HMM wrote:
Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?
This actually already exists :D The lore you get from the PFS training replaces the default PFS lore that all Pathfinders get as part of the character creation. If you don't choose a school, you get PFS lore automatically :D

Oh, I wasn't aware of this! The loss of Pathfinder Society Lore was my biggest peeve with the loss of Pathfinder Training, as it would be a skill tax for characters to handle something that comes up very often in PFS scenarios.

Where is the rule that states you get PFS Lord for free?

(And where do we get the PFS Organised Play rules while the www.organizedplayfoundation.org website is dead?)

Grand Lodge 3/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Ireland—Newtownabbey

KingTreyIII wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:

If a character option has not been reprinted, characters are free to use the option as previously printed, or to select it at any time.

1. Example: the brooch of shielding has not been reprinted. Characters may still purchase and use a brooch of shielding.

I presume that if a character DOES do the Remaster rebuild, then this option is waived? So if I rebuild my wizard to be in line with the Remaster, then I can no longer purchase a brooch of shielding?

Why would you assume the complete opposite of what was said? That seems odd. Unless you think that after rebuilding it ceases to be a character.

Grand Lodge 3/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Ireland—Newtownabbey

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DrakeRoberts wrote:

I have 3 concerns:

1) Characters from the Core 2 book that are created after November 15 but before Core 2 won't, by this, have a Remaster Rebuild to change themselves. This is a non-issue if they're granted specific free rebuilds when Core 2 comes out.

It has been pointed out, and I missed this myself. Each character gets one rebuild before December 2024, That's 14 months out and after the release of Core 2.

If you rebuild now, you don't get another one.

4/5 5/55/55/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

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This looks like a very well thought out way to handle the Remaster rules. I do hope we will get a preview of the Recall Knowledge rules before Nov 15th so that GMs can prepare for the transition.

Add me to the list of those who enjoyed the Pathfinder Training option. Most of my characters are more connected to that than their primary faction.

Vigilant Seal **** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta

Alex Speidel wrote:
KingTreyIII wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core.
What about the Advanced Player’s Guide? Is that likewise being phased out in a similar way?

Ask me about Player Core 2 in nine months.

I’ll setup a reminder. Let me contact the right people.

Horizon Hunters

DrakeRoberts wrote:
1) Characters from the Core 2 book that are created after November 15 but before Core 2 won't, by this, have a Remaster Rebuild to change themselves. This is a non-issue if they're granted specific free rebuilds when Core 2 comes out.

This one is already addressed.

Check the dates again. There is only one Rebuild option offered per character. But the range of date that it is available for extends past the release date of Player Core 2. So my Swashbuckler character can sit on the Remaster Rebuild until PC2 drops and then use the rebuild then.

What doesn't work - and the example given - is a Wizard character that uses the Remaster Rebuild immediately and then wants to use it again once PC2 comes out so that they can get a cool new feat that came available in that book.

Dark Archive

Alex Speidel wrote:
Blakeg wrote:
Was there a reason Pathfinder characters get a free rebuild while those of us that also play starfinder had to spend 50 ACP to rebuild with the enhanced rules and didn't get a free rebuild
Because changes/updates to the core engine of a system must be treated differently than the release of a new rulebook. We don't offer free rebuilds when a new druid order is released.
while it is certainly true that the enhanced classes are less expansive of a change than the remaster, the enhanced book specifically uses the following phrase in reference to the enhanced classes
Starfinder Enhanced, pg. 8 wrote:
they are intended to function as strict upgrades, and will be considered the baseline for those classes going forward.

which to me makes them sound like they are a bit more than just new character options.

perhaps if free rebuilds are off the table, then characters with levels in the relevant classes could instead be given the option to add just the new mechanics from the enhanced version (without making any other changes to their build) either for free or at a lower ACP cost via a more specialized boon?

not trying to start an argument, mostly just hoping to better understand the current official position and as to me the comparison being made doesn't quite match up.

*

arcaneArtist wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
Blakeg wrote:
Was there a reason Pathfinder characters get a free rebuild while those of us that also play starfinder had to spend 50 ACP to rebuild with the enhanced rules and didn't get a free rebuild
Because changes/updates to the core engine of a system must be treated differently than the release of a new rulebook. We don't offer free rebuilds when a new druid order is released.
while it is certainly true that the enhanced classes are less expansive of a change than the remaster, the enhanced book specifically uses the following phrase in reference to the enhanced classes
Starfinder Enhanced, pg. 8 wrote:
they are intended to function as strict upgrades, and will be considered the baseline for those classes going forward.

which to me makes them sound like they are a bit more than just new character options.

perhaps if free rebuilds are off the table, then characters with levels in the relevant classes could instead be given the option to add just the new mechanics from the enhanced version (without making any other changes to their build) either for free or at a lower ACP cost via a more specialized boon?

not trying to start an argument, mostly just hoping to better understand the current official position and as to me the comparison being made doesn't quite match up.

Thanks for chiming in, I really feel the enhanced book is more than just a new rulebook especially with the way they wrote out envoy/Solarian as almost a new class.

It'd be one thing if it was just more improvisations/abilities to pick from like most of the other classes.

I took one look at envoy and was debating whether I could knowingly play the regular envoy compared to what the new enhanced envoy offers and decided that it was a significant change in abilities to warrant rebuilding. I literally just spent 50 ACP the other day to rebuild my envoy and meanwhile they announce the remaster gets ALL PFS characters a free rebuild.

I understand that the remaster is going to be more comprehensive for PFS and the response does shed some light on the decisions made.

I just hope they at least lower the price to play Novians before the end of SF 1 :D

4/5 *** Venture-Agent, Utah

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Oh, another thing: If we do do the Remaster rebuild, do we also have to completely get rid of the Pathfinder School stuff when we do so?

Dark Archive 4/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

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Star Boy OZ wrote:

Where is the rule that states you get PFS Lord for free?

(And where do we get the PFS Organised Play rules while the www.organizedplayfoundation.org website is dead?)

There's a topic on this forum: OPF-Website Guide Outage which links to PDF versions of the guides while the website is down.

The rule can be found in character creation, at step 11:

11. Membership in the Pathfinder Society wrote:


During their training, Pathfinder initiates attain a certain level of proficiency and background knowledge. To represent this, by default all pathfinders start with Pathfinder Society Lore as a trained lore skill as a bonus skill proficiency. If they would already start with Pathfinder Lore skill from their background, they gain either Academia Lore or Scouting Lore as trained skills.

and under "Additional character options", it explains that "Characters who have ties to a school or who are Field Commissioned receive a bonus lore at first level. (This replaces the Pathfinder Society lore that all agents gain by default.)"

3/5 ***

This is promising. However, how would one work with a character that has a remastered class but an archetype that has not been updated. I have a cleric/captivator and a ranger/acrobat.

Grand Archive *

Seconded on the question about whether a rebuild means getting rid of pathfinder school benefits that we already obtained. I would not assume that we lose them personally, but I could see it going either way.

Additionally I have some questions about Runelord. I have a Runelord I already wanted to rebuild for other reasons. This may be a better question for the rules team than the OP team, but can I update him to a remaster wizard while keeping the Runelord dedication?

On a similar note, I just want to clarify something. Starting November 15, you may rebuild. Also starting November 15, you may not make new characters using the old chassis, but existing characters can continue to use the old chassis. If we use the rebuild, can we continue to use the old chassis? It would seem so from the wording, I just want to make sure everyone gets it right.

**

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Nice changes all around, sad about the Pathfinder training but i get it, its annoying to explain to newbies

Might be time to build a Runelord before I'm unable to for some time...

***

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps Subscriber

For rules that are "immediately" in effect, are we to just use the Remaster Core Review document as the source until Nov. 15th when the books hit retail shelves?

2/5 5/5 *****

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I believe immediately, means upon street date of the books dropping, not today.

3/5 *

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Corabee Cori wrote:
DrakeRoberts wrote:
1) Characters from the Core 2 book that are created after November 15 but before Core 2 won't, by this, have a Remaster Rebuild to change themselves. This is a non-issue if they're granted specific free rebuilds when Core 2 comes out.

This one is already addressed.

Check the dates again. There is only one Rebuild option offered per character. But the range of date that it is available for extends past the release date of Player Core 2. So my Swashbuckler character can sit on the Remaster Rebuild until PC2 drops and then use the rebuild then.

What doesn't work - and the example given - is a Wizard character that uses the Remaster Rebuild immediately and then wants to use it again once PC2 comes out so that they can get a cool new feat that came available in that book.

Yes, but only characters made before November 15th get that rebuild (although they can use it until December 2024). My concern is for characters that are made AFTER November 15th but before the release of Core 2 that use classes that will be in Core 2. For example, if I make a barbarian in January 2024, then according to the post, that character will not have the free rebuild, and there will not be free rebuilds given out similarly when Core 2 comes out. So then will I need to use ACP to rebuild my Barbarian into the remastered chassis when Core 2 comes out? Or might we offer those characters a free rebuild when Core 2 happens?


Tomppa wrote:
Star Boy OZ wrote:

Where is the rule that states you get PFS Lord for free?

(And where do we get the PFS Organised Play rules while the www.organizedplayfoundation.org website is dead?)

There's a topic on this forum: OPF-Website Guide Outage which links to PDF versions of the guides while the website is down.

The rule can be found in character creation, at step 11:

11. Membership in the Pathfinder Society wrote:


During their training, Pathfinder initiates attain a certain level of proficiency and background knowledge. To represent this, by default all pathfinders start with Pathfinder Society Lore as a trained lore skill as a bonus skill proficiency. If they would already start with Pathfinder Lore skill from their background, they gain either Academia Lore or Scouting Lore as trained skills.
and under "Additional character options", it explains that "Characters who have ties to a school or who are Field Commissioned receive a bonus lore at first level. (This replaces the Pathfinder Society lore that all agents gain by default.)"

That's fantastic; I must have read this a long time ago but forgot as I always consulted the Lore skills granted by Schools for my latest characters.

Thanks for pointing this out and giving a link to the PFS guide PDF!

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

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NielsenE wrote:
I believe immediately, means upon street date of the books dropping, not today.

This is correct; any references to "immediately" should be taken to mean "on November 15, when this document will be posted in full and the books are out."

I'm off for the evening but I'll be back tomorrow to follow up on some of the questions raised here and any more that come in overnight. Thank you all for your feedback and your patience with us!

Second Seekers (Jadnura) 5/55/55/55/5

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Thanks for the update and hard work Alex!

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
This is promising. However, how would one work with a character that has a remastered class but an archetype that has not been updated. I have a cleric/captivator and a ranger/acrobat.

I think they'll come up with an answer to that in 9 months :-)

Lets give them a break. They've worked quite hard to get to this point and will continue to work hard to fix the immediate problems we'll see on Nov 15th. And they've been exceedingly generous so far. Expecting them to know how they're going to handle Core 2 at this point (except in the broadest of senses) is a wee bit unreasonable. But I think we can trust them to come up with some pretty good answer

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Agent, Ohio—Dayton

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Good riddance schools. Can factions be next?


Alex Speidel wrote:


skittle600 wrote:
...how magus's arcane cascade will work with the removal of SPELL SCHOOLS.
Classes which have not yet been Remastered will use the rules as currently written until they get the Remaster treatment.

How do we do that with Rage of Elements & Player Core spells not having spell schools?!

Grand Archive

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You clarified how to treat Divine Lance and similar spells (use the new version like a Errata).
But what about other sources of Allingment Damage?

1. Will all allignment damage turn into Spirit Damage, at a 1:1 ratio?

While it is perfectly clear for all updated spells, there is still stuff like Champions Divine Smite (Level 9). And more monsters with allignment damage, then you can shake a 10ft pole at.

2. Will Good Tennet Champions be required to Santify towards Holy (keeping it closer to the existing rules)?
Or will this be defered to their Deity choice?

I am betting that still needs discussion. I am just trying to make sure it is in the final list.

Grand Archive

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Zero the Nothing wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:


skittle600 wrote:
...how magus's arcane cascade will work with the removal of SPELL SCHOOLS.
Classes which have not yet been Remastered will use the rules as currently written until they get the Remaster treatment.
How do we do that with Rage of Elements & Player Core spells not having spell schools?!

RoE is hte first book written against Remaster rule. So I guess this applies:

Quote:
Wizards built using the Core Rulebook chassis may learn new spells printed in remastered books, but they can never treat them as having a school spell if they did not previously have one.


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Aw man but I liked my pathfinder training, I'm already starved for skills...

Radiant Oath *

Several weeks ago, I foolishly purchased a rebuild boon. I've downloaded it, but have not yet applied it.

Any chance I could get the ACP refunded for that? (This is the character with the boon.)

It's fine if not -- lesson learned...but I figured I might as well ask.

Dark Archive 4/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

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Jill Savage IV wrote:

Several weeks ago, I foolishly purchased a rebuild boon. I've downloaded it, but have not yet applied it.

Any chance I could get the ACP refunded for that? (This is the character with the boon.)

It's fine if not -- lesson learned...but I figured I might as well ask.

Best to e-mail the address given in the blog about boon refunds, they've typically been very lenient about this stuff when you've purchased a boon close to the changes, (especially if you haven't used the boon/played the character in between)

** Venture-Agent, Oregon—Portland

Since it sounds like some of the pregens will have to be updated, will the updated versions be available to look at before the 15th or just on the day?


Alex Speidel wrote:
No, you still can. The purpose of the remaster rebuild would be to use the new chassis like the new wizard schools, upgraded proficiency, etc.

Are feats part of the chassis? For example, my wizard has Conceal Spell and Silent Spell. Conceal Spell keeps the name, and we must use the new version regardless of the rebuild. Silent Spell becomes absolete and doesn't exist anymore. So, I now must use a rebuild or play with one less feat?

DrakeRoberts wrote:
3) I'm a little wary on the Field Commisions keeping their bonus downtime but also getting items. It sounds like it would behoove everyone to transfer their characters into Field Commissioned people prior to Nov 15th.

But you can't :) You can train out of Field Commission, but not into it. It's a 1st level choice-only. "Note that while Field Commission can only be freely chosen at character creation, the other four options can be chosen at any point in the Pathfinder's career, although once chosen they cannot be changed without Retraining."

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
This is promising. However, how would one work with a character that has a remastered class but an archetype that has not been updated. I have a cleric/captivator and a ranger/acrobat.

Your archetype would remain unchanged until/unless it is republished in a future book.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

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Ken'Thras Sunspell wrote:

Additionally I have some questions about Runelord. I have a Runelord I already wanted to rebuild for other reasons. This may be a better question for the rules team than the OP team, but can I update him to a remaster wizard while keeping the Runelord dedication?

On a similar note, I just want to clarify something. Starting November 15, you may rebuild. Also starting November 15, you may not make new characters using the old chassis, but existing characters can continue to use the old chassis. If we use the rebuild, can we continue to use the old chassis? It would seem so from the wording, I just want to make sure everyone gets it right.

To the first, no. If you're using the remaster wizard, that wizard has never heard of spell schools, so she can't be a runelord as currently published.

The Runelord Prerequisite wrote:
Prerequisites: You must be a wizard specializing in one of the seven schools other than divination.

To the second: you cannot use the old chassis after November 15. If you rebuild your witch on November 15, you're using the new chassis.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

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Zero the Nothing wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:


skittle600 wrote:
...how magus's arcane cascade will work with the removal of SPELL SCHOOLS.
Classes which have not yet been Remastered will use the rules as currently written until they get the Remaster treatment.
How do we do that with Rage of Elements & Player Core spells not having spell schools?!

Rage of Elements spells do not have spell schools and never have. Player Core spells are only treated as having spell schools if they used to; newly-published spells will never have a spell school.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

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Christopher#2411504 wrote:

You clarified how to treat Divine Lance and similar spells (use the new version like a Errata).

But what about other sources of Allingment Damage?

1. Will all allignment damage turn into Spirit Damage, at a 1:1 ratio?

While it is perfectly clear for all updated spells, there is still stuff like Champions Divine Smite (Level 9). And more monsters with allignment damage, then you can shake a 10ft pole at.

2. Will Good Tennet Champions be required to Santify towards Holy (keeping it closer to the existing rules)?
Or will this be defered to their Deity choice?

I am betting that still needs discussion. I am just trying to make sure it is in the final list.

These are design team questions that PFS cannot answer until they do.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

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Nekome wrote:
Since it sounds like some of the pregens will have to be updated, will the updated versions be available to look at before the 15th or just on the day?

We are currently working on remastered pregens internally, but the process is currently out of my hands. I do not have an ETA for their release yet, but I'm aware of how crucial they are.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

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Errenor wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
No, you still can. The purpose of the remaster rebuild would be to use the new chassis like the new wizard schools, upgraded proficiency, etc.
Are feats part of the chassis? For example, my wizard has Conceal Spell and Silent Spell. Conceal Spell keeps the name, and we must use the new version regardless of the rebuild. Silent Spell becomes absolete and doesn't exist anymore. So, I now must use a rebuild or play with one less feat?

Feats are not part of the chassis. Silent Spell is still a legal feat using the Core Rulebook.

Grand Archive

Alex Speidel wrote:
Christopher#2411504 wrote:

You clarified how to treat Divine Lance and similar spells (use the new version like a Errata).

But what about other sources of Allingment Damage?

1. Will all allignment damage turn into Spirit Damage, at a 1:1 ratio?

While it is perfectly clear for all updated spells, there is still stuff like Champions Divine Smite (Level 9). And more monsters with allignment damage, then you can shake a 10ft pole at.

2. Will Good Tennet Champions be required to Santify towards Holy (keeping it closer to the existing rules)?
Or will this be defered to their Deity choice?

I am betting that still needs discussion. I am just trying to make sure it is in the final list.

These are design team questions that PFS cannot answer until they do.

The earliest time the design team will answer is with Player Core 2, when the remastered Champion comes out. Which will be July 2024.

Until that happens, 100% of all champions will reference rules (Allignment, Allignment Damage) that no longer exist.
PFS will have to come up with a temporary rule here, that will cover November 2023 to July 2024.

It doesn't need to be perfect or lasting. Just enough to avoid Table variation. Because this variation will be between "the character is not PFS legal to play" and "just another day at Pathfinder Office".

Grand Archive 4/5 ****

umopapisdnupsidedown wrote:

If I'm making minor updates to the character for the remastered chassis, does that count as a "remaster rebuild"? That is, do I have to sell all my gear (or buy new gear based on the table values), or can I just tweak a few skills and spells and be done without the whole rigmarole? I'm pretty happy with my characters as they are, though I'm excited for the remaster.

...And if minor tweaks don't trigger a rebuild, what's the threshold between minor tweaks and a full rebuild?

I mean you can always sell back your gear and then buy back the exact same gear...

(Unless you spent a lot of time crafting I suppose)

(Just noticed it says "sell back any or all gear"

So when you rebuild, If you like your gear, you can keep your gear.

Grand Archive 4/5 ****

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Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.

^ This.

Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?

Hmm

I will continue to argue for Pathfinder as a bonus lore. (With choice of bonus lore if your background gives you pathfinder lore.)

Grand Archive 4/5 ****

Tomppa wrote:
Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.
HMM wrote:
Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?
This actually already exists :D The lore you get from the PFS training replaces the default PFS lore that all Pathfinders get as part of the character creation. If you don't choose a school, you get PFS lore automatically :D

This is not correct. The PFS lore you get comes from Pathfinder Training (step 11 in character creation).

The replacement lore comes from the school you join.

If Pathfinder Training goes away, so does bonus pathfinder lore.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Northwestern Indiana

Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion wrote:
Tomppa wrote:
Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.
HMM wrote:
Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?
This actually already exists :D The lore you get from the PFS training replaces the default PFS lore that all Pathfinders get as part of the character creation. If you don't choose a school, you get PFS lore automatically :D

This is not correct. The PFS lore you get comes from Pathfinder Training (step 11 in character creation).

The replacement lore comes from the school you join.

If Pathfinder Training goes away, so does bonus pathfinder lore.

Perhaps Pathfinder Society law will be declared an automatic bonus lore. Remember, there is more information coming.

Grand Archive 4/5 ****

William Ronald wrote:
Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion wrote:
Tomppa wrote:
Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.
HMM wrote:
Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?
This actually already exists :D The lore you get from the PFS training replaces the default PFS lore that all Pathfinders get as part of the character creation. If you don't choose a school, you get PFS lore automatically :D

This is not correct. The PFS lore you get comes from Pathfinder Training (step 11 in character creation).

The replacement lore comes from the school you join.

If Pathfinder Training goes away, so does bonus pathfinder lore.

Perhaps Pathfinder Society law will be declared an automatic bonus lore. Remember, there is more information coming.

That is what I am currently advocating for.

Grand Archive *

Alex Speidel wrote:
Ken'Thras Sunspell wrote:

Additionally I have some questions about Runelord. I have a Runelord I already wanted to rebuild for other reasons. This may be a better question for the rules team than the OP team, but can I update him to a remaster wizard while keeping the Runelord dedication?

On a similar note, I just want to clarify something. Starting November 15, you may rebuild. Also starting November 15, you may not make new characters using the old chassis, but existing characters can continue to use the old chassis. If we use the rebuild, can we continue to use the old chassis? It would seem so from the wording, I just want to make sure everyone gets it right.

To the first, no. If you're using the remaster wizard, that wizard has never heard of spell schools, so she can't be a runelord as currently published.

The Runelord Prerequisite wrote:
Prerequisites: You must be a wizard specializing in one of the seven schools other than divination.
To the second: you cannot use the old chassis after November 15. If you rebuild your witch on November 15, you're using the new chassis.

Alright, so I can't use the new chassis if I want to be a runelord, but I can't use the old chassis if I want to rebuild. Can I just not rebuild him? The only reason I want to rebuild him is to give him a background from a boon I got at Gencon.

Edit: Rereading this I realize that because it's in text form it might have come off a little stand-offish. Not how I meant it, in case anyone took it that way. Just really would like to know what my options are.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 ** Organized Play Coordinator

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ken'Thras Sunspell wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
Ken'Thras Sunspell wrote:

Additionally I have some questions about Runelord. I have a Runelord I already wanted to rebuild for other reasons. This may be a better question for the rules team than the OP team, but can I update him to a remaster wizard while keeping the Runelord dedication?

On a similar note, I just want to clarify something. Starting November 15, you may rebuild. Also starting November 15, you may not make new characters using the old chassis, but existing characters can continue to use the old chassis. If we use the rebuild, can we continue to use the old chassis? It would seem so from the wording, I just want to make sure everyone gets it right.

To the first, no. If you're using the remaster wizard, that wizard has never heard of spell schools, so she can't be a runelord as currently published.

The Runelord Prerequisite wrote:
Prerequisites: You must be a wizard specializing in one of the seven schools other than divination.
To the second: you cannot use the old chassis after November 15. If you rebuild your witch on November 15, you're using the new chassis.

Alright, so I can't use the new chassis if I want to be a runelord, but I can't use the old chassis if I want to rebuild. Can I just not rebuild him? The only reason I want to rebuild him is to give him a background from a boon I got at Gencon.

Edit: Rereading this I realize that because it's in text form it might have come off a little stand-offish. Not how I meant it, in case anyone took it that way. Just really would like to know what my options are.

You are not required to rebuild your characters, you merely have the option. If you want to continue playing your wizard with the rules in the Core Rulebook, that's perfectly valid!

Grand Archive *

Alex Speidel wrote:
Ken'Thras Sunspell wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
Ken'Thras Sunspell wrote:

Additionally I have some questions about Runelord. I have a Runelord I already wanted to rebuild for other reasons. This may be a better question for the rules team than the OP team, but can I update him to a remaster wizard while keeping the Runelord dedication?

On a similar note, I just want to clarify something. Starting November 15, you may rebuild. Also starting November 15, you may not make new characters using the old chassis, but existing characters can continue to use the old chassis. If we use the rebuild, can we continue to use the old chassis? It would seem so from the wording, I just want to make sure everyone gets it right.

To the first, no. If you're using the remaster wizard, that wizard has never heard of spell schools, so she can't be a runelord as currently published.

The Runelord Prerequisite wrote:
Prerequisites: You must be a wizard specializing in one of the seven schools other than divination.
To the second: you cannot use the old chassis after November 15. If you rebuild your witch on November 15, you're using the new chassis.

Alright, so I can't use the new chassis if I want to be a runelord, but I can't use the old chassis if I want to rebuild. Can I just not rebuild him? The only reason I want to rebuild him is to give him a background from a boon I got at Gencon.

Edit: Rereading this I realize that because it's in text form it might have come off a little stand-offish. Not how I meant it, in case anyone took it that way. Just really would like to know what my options are.

You are not required to rebuild your characters, you merely have the option. If you want to continue playing your wizard with the rules in the Core Rulebook, that's perfectly valid!

Right, but I'm wanting to rebuild him, it's just that my reasoning has nothing to do with his class. I got the background that gives deviant ability access at GenCon, and I want my Runelord to have that. However, it sounds like if I want to use the rebuild to give him that, he won't be able to be a Runelord anymore, since he will be forced to be a remastered wizard.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Can you use the normal rebuild rules instead of the remaster rebuild? Or is there not an option for backgrounds?

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