Pathfinder Society and the Remaster

Thursday, October 26, 2023

Ever since we announced the Pathfinder Remaster project, my inbox has not known peace. Every day I get asked by the Pathfinders worldwide, “how will Pathfinder Society handle the Remaster?” Every day I must give the same answer, “I don’t know yet! Ask me in 1d4 months!”

It’s now 1d4 months later and I can finally start to answer this question! With the assistance of some incredibly dedicated Additional Resources volunteers and no less than six members of Paizo staff, we are here today to present the broad strokes of our plan to convert (or not convert) your Pathfinder Society characters to the brand-new Remastered rules. While we don’t intend for our scenarios to be written using the Remastered rules until Year 6 begins at Gen Con 2024, we know the characters will need to make the switch faster.

Before we get into it, I’d like to offer a couple of disclaimers. First, the rules we’re sharing today are the broad strokes. There will be more specifics to come on release date, but we’re still working our way through specific questions like “what happens to my staff of transmutation now that transmutation isn’t a school?” We’re sharing this today to get you ready for what’s to come.

Second, these rules are still in flux. We have a pile of questions yet to answer internally (we’re having weekly meetings to do nothing but answer them), and we expect more will come from the community as time goes on. We expect this to happen! Our intention is for these guidelines to live in a subpage of the Guide to Organized Play, to allow them to be a living document we’ll update as time goes on.

Finally, we will not be able to answer every single question that comes up. Rules discrepancies and questions come up all the time at tables, and the Remaster will increase the odds of that happening. The GM always has the power to make calls on rules questions at the table. While we strive for the Pathfinder Society experience to play out the same at every table worldwide, we need to accept as a community that there will be some variance, and be patient with each other as we figure things out. This is a game, we’re here to have fun, let’s all keep that in mind as we play!

With all that out of the way, here are the current planned guidelines for Pathfinder Society and the Remaster. If you have questions/comments/concerns, drop them in the comments of this blog and we’ll do our best to answer them. Once the Remaster drops, we’ll create a separate thread in the Pathfinder Society forum for those specific rules interactions that we won’t discover until they come up in play.

Alex Speidel
Organized Play Coordinator

Ezren looking over plans and judges them.



Objectives

When considering the Pathfinder Remaster, our intent is as follows:

  • To ensure that players are not forced to rebuild characters
  • To ensure that as much previous material as feasible is still useable
  • To incentivize adoption of the new, Remastered ruleset
  • To provide an optional method to rebuild characters into Remaster rules

General Guidance

  1. Game Rules
    1. Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible.
      1. Example: Recall Knowledge has been updated with additional guidelines. These take effect immediately at all PFS tables.
      2. Example: The Refocus activity and the focus spell rules have been updated to be more intuitive. All characters immediately begin using these rules.
      3. Example: Monster abilities such as Grab are no longer automatic, but allow a free skill check to attempt the action. GMs immediately begin using this new version of the rules.
  2. Character Options
    1. Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core.
      1. This affects the following classes: bard, cleric, druid, fighter, ranger, rogue, witch, wizard.
      2. Characters with at least 1 game reported prior to November 15 may be built using the Core Rulebook chassis.
      3. Previously-existing characters with at least 1 game reported may continue their progression using the Core Rulebook chassis. They may not use the chassis in the Player Core without rebuilding.
    2. If a character option has been reprinted with the same name, use the new version as if it were errata. No additional retraining is necessary.
      1. Example: divine lance has been reprinted with new Remaster-compatible rules. All PCs with divine lance must update the spell accordingly.
    3. If a character option has not been reprinted, characters are free to use the option as previously printed, or to select it at any time.
      1. Example: the brooch of shielding has not been reprinted. Characters may still purchase and use a brooch of shielding.
      2. Example: the produce flame spell has not been reprinted, but ignition takes its place thematically. Characters may learn either spell anytime they would learn a new spell, and could learn both spells if they chose.
      3. Example: the oracle class has not yet been remastered. Players may still build and play oracles using the rules in the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide.
  1. An oracle who learns divine lance must still use the remastered version of the spell.

Specific Rules

  1. Alignment: Alignment has been removed from the game. PCs and NPCs no longer have alignment.
    1. Edicts and Anathema: To replace certain aspects of alignment, edicts and anathema are being emphasized. These are voluntary and optional, though deities and classes may introduce specific edicts and anathema which are not optional.
    2. Holy and Unholy: Many previously-aligned options now have either the holy, unholy, or sanctified traits. At a GM’s discretion, enemy abilities which previously had the good or evil traits may now have the holy or unholy trait.
      1. Example: A quasit’s strikes previously had the evil trait. A GM may choose to give them the unholy trait, as quasits are demonic creatures. Similarly, a quasit’s weakness to good should now be considered a weakness to holy.
  2. Wizards
    1. Wizards built using the Core Rulebook chassis may continue to treat spells that had their spell school removed as part of the Remaster as if they have spell schools. They must otherwise fully update their remastered spells.
      1. Example: An evocation wizard may still select electric arc as an evocation cantrip. They must use the new damage as printed in the Player Core.
    2. Wizards built using the Core Rulebook chassis may learn new spells printed in remastered books, but they can never treat them as having a school spell if they did not previously have one.
    3. Runelords
      1. On November 15, 2023, the Runelord boon will be removed from the Achievement Points store. No new Runelords may be created after this date until/unless the archetype is reprinted.
  3. Campaign-Specific Rules and Clarifications
    1. Pathfinder Society characters may not be sanctified to unholy. This is the spiritual successor to the previous rule forbidding PCs of evil alignment.

Rebuilding

  1. On November 15, 2023, all characters with at least one game reported are granted one free rebuild. This is a full rebuild; you may completely alter a character’s ancestry, class, background, and any options selected. You may not alter the adventures a character has participated in, nor may you alter a character’s Reputation earned.
  2. Upon rebuilding, your character starts with gold equal to Table X.X[Alex note: this table will be published with the full rules, and is built on our baseline assumption of earning 8 TB per scenario].
    1. Alternatively, a player character may sell any and all currently-held items at face value and purchase new items as normal.
  3. If you use this rebuild, indicate “Remaster Rebuild” on your character’s most recent Chronicle Sheet.
  4. If, in the course of this rebuild, you wish to refund any purchased boons, please email orgplayreportingerrors[at]paizo[dot]com with your character’s name, OP ID and character number, and the boon(s) you would like to refund.
  5. This rebuild must be used before December 31, 2024. A second rebuild of this type will not be granted following the release of Player Core 2.



One Final Change

While this isn’t a direct result of the Remaster, we’re taking the opportunity to make another change. Beginning on November 15, we will be removing the Pathfinder Training from the Guide to Organized Play. Your characters who are already Field Commissioned may still take bonus downtime, and we’re not going to take away the bonus Lores or feats your characters may have already gained. However, new characters may not use this system. Quite simply, it’s an extra layer of complexity that most players aren’t engaging with, and that doesn’t add much to the program.

However, we know everybody loves free items, so they will remain in the form of Pathfinder Provisions! We’ll have a pared-down list of consumables which all agents (including formerly Field Commissioned agents) may choose from at the start of a mission. By default agents will receive healing potions, though they may choose another item or items if they prefer. The Society wants to ensure its agents come home safe!

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Tags: Organized Play Pathfinder Remaster Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition Pathfinder Society
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Dark Archive 4/5 *** Venture-Agent, Finland—Tampere

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Aww man I liked Pathfinder Training bonus feats/lore :'D

Sidenote, did any society scenario have enemies weak to Law/Chaos damage? Maybe one protean somewhere? I'm mostly curious if there was any guidelines for those situation

**

3 people marked this as a favorite.

My first impression is positive on this. I'm glad to see that this looks to be grandfathering in existing characters as much as possible, while the free rebuilds allow people the option to convert to new versions of the class or any other options. Overall, this feels like it gives as much choice as possible for players and that's a good thing.

The removal of pathfinder training is only going to get a big "meh" from me - I basically picked Generalist on every character anyways for the slightly better healing potions and I can't recall the last time I took anything but that for supplies anyways (aside from scrolls of Heal on appropriate characters maybe).

*

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Was there a reason Pathfinder characters get a free rebuild while those of us that also play starfinder had to spend 50 ACP to rebuild with the enhanced rules and didn't get a free rebuild?

I understand that the remaster might be more in-depth than the SF enhanced was but that makes it almost worse that we were told to just rebuild the character if we wanted to use the new SF enhanced rules..

I understand it is what it is but it put me 50 ACP away from playing Novians and that's like, the worst.

As recompense feel free to make the Novians free! >.<


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Please give an option in the pared-down list of consumables to not take consumables for the scenario in exchange for extra downtime. its a big blow to crafters to only have 8 days per game to craft, especially with the base 4 days tax before the item gets discounted.


Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
CorvusMask wrote:

Aww man I liked Pathfinder Training bonus feats/lore :'D

I'd be willing to bet/hope that they come back in the form of boons. It felt like a great way to flavor your character, and being able to "specialize yourself" by getting a bonus feat + more consumable options would be a great boon.

Doesn't solve the lore options but allowing a free lv 1 choice of free lore would solve that - and the free language and PFS lore are imo very important parts of the system and they haven't mentioned removing those, so there's a chance?

Liberty's Edge 1/5 **

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Quote:
Quite simply, it’s an extra layer of complexity that most players aren’t engaging with, and that doesn’t add much to the program.

Amen. Great change, even if it does mean I technically "lose" something I have access to today.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

3 people marked this as a favorite.
BrightDrive wrote:
Please give an option in the pared-down list of consumables to not take consumables for the scenario in exchange for extra downtime. its a big blow to crafters to only have 8 days per game to craft, especially with the base 4 days tax before the item gets discounted.

There will be new crafting rules in the Remaster, so stay tuned for those!

We'll also be taking a look at updating our Downtime rules to be more in line with the Remaster, but that might not be ready for release.


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big fan of these rules, my only issues are some specific quick fixes not mentioned. Like if champion causes and tenets can be chosen by any champion and how magus's arcane cascade will work with the removal of spell schools. But yeah I'm pretty happy for these changes, I've been saving the mark of the mantis boon to play a champion of achaekek for a while now.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Shocking Grasp and Thunderstrike still allowed, side-by-side, for those who were worried.

Envoy's Alliance 1/5 ****

I have 28 characters and I am greatly looking forward to sinking my teach into conversion! Wooohooo!

These look awesome and have to say I agree that many of my players found Pathinfder training to be cumbersome and a pain more than they were happy to use it.

Dark Archive 1/5 5/5 ***** Venture-Agent, Switzerland—Geneva

This looks like a pragmatical approach, appreciated, keep up the good work.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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skittle600 wrote:
big fan of these rules, my only issues are some specific quick fixes not mentioned. Like if champion causes and tenets can be chosen by any champion and how magus's arcane cascade will work with the removal of spell schools. But yeah I'm pretty happy for these changes, I've been saving the mark of the mantis boon to play a champion of achaekek for a while now.

Classes which have not yet been Remastered will use the rules as currently written until they get the Remaster treatment.

Vigilant Seal **** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Blakeg wrote:

Was there a reason Pathfinder characters get a free rebuild while those of us that also play starfinder had to spend 50 ACP to rebuild with the enhanced rules and didn't get a free rebuild?

I understand that the remaster might be more in-depth than the SF enhanced was but that makes it almost worse that we were told to just rebuild the character if we wanted to use the new SF enhanced rules..

I understand it is what it is but it put me 50 ACP away from playing Novians and that's like, the worst.

As recompense feel free to make the Novians free! >.<

Probably because you can make new non-enhanced characters and enhanced is only an option

Envoy's Alliance **

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Damn, no more extra downtime for ridiculously gold efficient crafting for my characters :`)

Oh well haha. It was pretty busted as is

I do wonder if we'll get a list of sanctification rules for all deities as a kind of placeholder resource between now and reprinting of those deities.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Finally, an answer to the eternal question, “what is the society providing for this mission?”

Scarab Sages 2/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Oregon—Portland

During this transition, how should GMs apply those champion abilities though? Many of their additional bonuses are good damage. We can translate to holy damage but it seems like unholy will be less common than evil was for foes. It feels like a champion's damage should apply to things it always has until they get remastered but I'm not sure that would be the case if we treated it as holy.


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Maybe i am reading this incorrectly but, this portion of the free rebuild: "Upon rebuilding, your character starts with gold equal to Table X.X[Alex note: this table will be published with the full rules, and is built on our baseline assumption of earning 8 TB per scenario."

concerns me. it might be just the people i am playing with, but in all of my 11 games currently with a single character, i have gotten all 10 TBs per scenario. (not to mention that alot of people have treasure bundle insurance) This reads to me as i will lose 20% of my gold if i do a full rebuild on my wizard.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

2 people marked this as a favorite.
TomParker wrote:
During this transition, how should GMs apply those champion abilities though? Many of their additional bonuses are good damage. We can translate to holy damage but it seems like unholy will be less common than evil was for foes. It feels like a champion's damage should apply to things it always has until they get remastered but I'm not sure that would be the case if we treated it as holy.

There is no such thing as holy damage in the Remaster (I have been corrected on this several times already, this is a PSA). In general, a GM should determine if a previous weakness to good should now be weakness to holy. If a character is sanctified to holy, it would trigger; if they are not, it will not.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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BrightDrive wrote:

Maybe i am reading this incorrectly but, this portion of the free rebuild: "Upon rebuilding, your character starts with gold equal to Table X.X[Alex note: this table will be published with the full rules, and is built on our baseline assumption of earning 8 TB per scenario."

concerns me. it might be just the people i am playing with, but in all of my 11 games currently with a single character, i have gotten all 10 TBs per scenario. (not to mention that alot of people have treasure bundle insurance) This reads to me as i will lose 20% of my gold if i do a full rebuild on my wizard.

You have the option of reselling all items for purchase value and purchasing new ones instead if you prefer.

*

reevos wrote:
Blakeg wrote:

Was there a reason Pathfinder characters get a free rebuild while those of us that also play starfinder had to spend 50 ACP to rebuild with the enhanced rules and didn't get a free rebuild?

I understand that the remaster might be more in-depth than the SF enhanced was but that makes it almost worse that we were told to just rebuild the character if we wanted to use the new SF enhanced rules..

I understand it is what it is but it put me 50 ACP away from playing Novians and that's like, the worst.

As recompense feel free to make the Novians free! >.<

Probably because you can make new non-enhanced characters and enhanced is only an option

Sure but you don't "have" to rebuild any characters in PF either just like you don't "have" to rebuild an envoy into enhanced envoy.

Yet PF gets a free rebuild while SF doesn't even though arguably an envoy pre-enhanced is a lot less powerful than an enhanced envoy.

I just wish SF got the same free rebuild love especially since SF 2.0 is coming out eventually.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Blakeg wrote:
Was there a reason Pathfinder characters get a free rebuild while those of us that also play starfinder had to spend 50 ACP to rebuild with the enhanced rules and didn't get a free rebuild

Because changes/updates to the core engine of a system must be treated differently than the release of a new rulebook. We don't offer free rebuilds when a new druid order is released.

*****

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I assume the "you may rebuild your character completely as often as you want as long as it has not been played at level 2 or above" option is not affected by those changes, and that a level-1 character could rebuild into a Remastered class without needing to use the "special" free rebuild.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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mizinamo wrote:
I assume the "you may rebuild your character completely as often as you want as long as it has not been played at level 2 or above" option is not affected by those changes, and that a level-1 character could rebuild into a Remastered class without needing to use the "special" free rebuild.

Absolutely correct, yes!

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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It's been pointed out to me that I missed a really important part of this so lemme drop this as well:

Player Core and GM Core will be added to the Core Assumption. You will not need to own them to use the options printed therein.

**

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I liked Pathfinder Training, but removing it is the right move. Frankly most players I see in PFS didn't know it existed and didn't tend to use it. It's an out of the way thing to know about and remember to use, unless you're using Hero Lab Online (which if you tell it you're making a Society character will actively prompt you to pick stuff from it).

That created this weird situation where my character has extra stuff than another players character just because I know to take them and the other person doesn't.

People also tend to forget the consumables in my experience and so while I remind them, we tended to default to "if you don't know what I'm talking about, you get X healing potion" (whatever the table says) rather than trying to explain at the start of a game what training options are available.

It was a neat idea that with the benefit of experience just hasn't gotten traction.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, New Zealand—Christchurch

If I'm making minor updates to the character for the remastered chassis, does that count as a "remaster rebuild"? That is, do I have to sell all my gear (or buy new gear based on the table values), or can I just tweak a few skills and spells and be done without the whole rigmarole? I'm pretty happy with my characters as they are, though I'm excited for the remaster.

...And if minor tweaks don't trigger a rebuild, what's the threshold between minor tweaks and a full rebuild?

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

2 people marked this as a favorite.
umopapisdnupsidedown wrote:

If I'm making minor updates to the character for the remastered chassis, does that count as a "remaster rebuild"? That is, do I have to sell all my gear (or buy new gear based on the table values), or can I just tweak a few skills and spells and be done without the whole rigmarole? I'm pretty happy with my characters as they are, though I'm excited for the remaster.

...And if minor tweaks don't trigger a rebuild, what's the threshold between minor tweaks and a full rebuild?

Gimme an example of what you mean by "minor updates" and I'll try and thread that needle.

**

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TomParker wrote:
During this transition, how should GMs apply those champion abilities though? Many of their additional bonuses are good damage. We can translate to holy damage but it seems like unholy will be less common than evil was for foes. It feels like a champion's damage should apply to things it always has until they get remastered but I'm not sure that would be the case if we treated it as holy.

IIRC, what was alignment damage is now all Spirit damage. So the Champion's Good damage is now Spirit damage, which works on more things (anything with a spirit vs only Evil creatures). I think the Champion ones should also be sanctified holy, which means they would trigger weaknesses to that (something that was weak to good would now be weak to sanctified holy damage, so it'd still trigger).

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

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What about spells that have the same name but are otherwise completely different in a way that renders them incompatible with existing options?

For example, Remastered Light is NOT the same spell as the existing Light. They have completely different effects. How would my wayfinder work when the remastered Light cannot target objects? And what about Speltrickster? Can I use the old version of light for these options or so they just not work anymore?

It doesn’t seem fair when you can still use an old spell if it got a name change but not if the name stayed the same but nothing else.

Dark Archive 4/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

Quote:
removing the Pathfinder Training from the Guide to Organized Play. Your characters who are already Field Commissioned may still take bonus downtime, and we’re not going to take away the bonus Lores or feats your characters may have already gained. However, new characters may not use this system.

If my character is level 4 when the remaster hits, can they still gain the level 5 bonus feat form Swords school when they level up after the 15th?

The text is slightly ambigious - it says that old characters won't lose anything, and new characters can't gain anything, but can old characters still claim the increased benefits when they hit the 5th level milestone?

Also - I'm SUPER excited and happy and surprised with the scope of how the rebuild will work - I would have never dreamed it to be this generous!

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Cyrad wrote:
What about spells that have the same name but are otherwise completely different in a way that renders them incompatible with existing options?

They are treated as errata. Any changes to specific items may be clarified in future updates; this version of the rules very specifically did not get into the weeds of "how do I handle X feat," but we're actively working on those internally and expect more to come up once the books are officially released.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Tomppa wrote:
If my character is level 4 when the remaster hits, can they still gain the level 5 bonus feat form Swords school when they level up after the 15th?

I think the answer to this is "no" but that is not final and I'll be sure to put it on our list of discussion topics.

Radiant Oath

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CorvusMask wrote:

Aww man I liked Pathfinder Training bonus feats/lore :'D

Sidenote, did any society scenario have enemies weak to Law/Chaos damage? Maybe one protean somewhere? I'm mostly curious if there was any guidelines for those situation

My thaumaturge did deal law damage at one point, so this could be a nerf to him.

Grand Lodge * Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis

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Since the Free Rebuild will not be offered once PC2 is released, will there be some form of compensation for characters with classes that won't be updated until PC2?

Vigilant Seal **** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kittyburger wrote:
Since the Free Rebuild will not be offered once PC2 is released, will there be some form of compensation for characters with classes that won't be updated until PC2?

you can free rebuild until December 2024. That’s for all PC books. Just not a new one

Grand Lodge * Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis

reevos wrote:
Kittyburger wrote:
Since the Free Rebuild will not be offered once PC2 is released, will there be some form of compensation for characters with classes that won't be updated until PC2?
you can free rebuild until December 2024. That’s for all PC books. Just not a new one

Ok, I misread that as December 2023 then. I didn't want to respec my champion into cleric just to take advantage of the free respec.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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> This rebuild must be used before December 31, 2024. A second rebuild of this type will not be granted following the release of Player Core 2.

The point of this sentence is to indicate that you can rebuild your wizard now, but if there's a great feat you want in PC2, you'll have to use the normal rebuilding rules and shouldn't expect a second rebuild. The reason it does not expire until December 2024 is so that all the PC2 classes can still make use of it once that book is released. Basically: every character can get Remastered for free, you're welcome, have fun.

(Kittyburger's not the first person to express confusion so I'm clarifying)


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Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Tridus wrote:

I liked Pathfinder Training, but removing it is the right move. Frankly most players I see in PFS didn't know it existed and didn't tend to use it. It's an out of the way thing to know about and remember to use, unless you're using Hero Lab Online (which if you tell it you're making a Society character will actively prompt you to pick stuff from it).

That created this weird situation where my character has extra stuff than another players character just because I know to take them and the other person doesn't.

People also tend to forget the consumables in my experience and so while I remind them, we tended to default to "if you don't know what I'm talking about, you get X healing potion" (whatever the table says) rather than trying to explain at the start of a game what training options are available.

It was a neat idea that with the benefit of experience just hasn't gotten traction.

Personally, I would rather have gotten rid of factions as they mean so little in PFS2 and made schools the mandatory choice as it adds more flavor to the character, but that's antithetical to the history of PFS

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.

4/5 ****

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Don't forget about the PFS archetypes that require association with the Pathfinder schools.

Scrollmaster
Spellmaster
Swordmaster

Would be a shame to lose those. Could easily just adjust the prereq, or add cheap boons to to fulfill the prereqs.

---

At first I was annoyed about needing to give up so much potential wealth to rebuild into the new chassis' but then I saw the resale at "face value" options.

That seems to neatly deal with extra earned income/crafted items as well.

Just cash it all out and buy from there.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, New Zealand—Christchurch

Alex Speidel wrote:
umopapisdnupsidedown wrote:

If I'm making minor updates to the character for the remastered chassis, does that count as a "remaster rebuild"? That is, do I have to sell all my gear (or buy new gear based on the table values), or can I just tweak a few skills and spells and be done without the whole rigmarole? I'm pretty happy with my characters as they are, though I'm excited for the remaster.

...And if minor tweaks don't trigger a rebuild, what's the threshold between minor tweaks and a full rebuild?

Gimme an example of what you mean by "minor updates" and I'll try and thread that needle.

With the caveat that most of my characters won't have any changes until PC2, and the additional caveat that I of course know only what has been announced for PC1, if I'm happy with Ancestry, Background, Class, Attributes, and Skills (and other things I haven't thought about, but with the assumption that the basic skill and feat progression didn't change much)...

Maybe I just need to tweak a couple of spells on a bard to bring them in-line with the remaster, which would otherwise require retraining or rebuilding. Or maybe need to change a feat on a Rogue that has been rendered obsolete or undesirable to me by some of the quality-of-life changes in the remaster.

The big one I could see at the moment is someone who is pretty happy with their Rogue or Wizard but there might be a couple of things (feats or other bits that can't just be altered at will) that they either want or need to update to bring into alignment with the remaster. But since I haven't made a Wizard I don't really have a concrete example for that.

I wonder if "Remaster Retraining" could be an option for those who don't need a full rebuild? Or maybe it's just not a concern.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Pirate Rob wrote:

Don't forget about the PFS archetypes that require association with the Pathfinder schools.

Scrollmaster
Spellmaster
Swordmaster

Would be a shame to lose those. Could easily just adjust the prereq, or add cheap boons to to fulfill the prereqs.

I think it'll be pretty easy to update the sanctioning to indicate that any Pathfinder agent can take those archetypes and I will put it on the to-do list :)

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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umopapisdnupsidedown wrote:
Alex Speidel wrote:
umopapisdnupsidedown wrote:

If I'm making minor updates to the character for the remastered chassis, does that count as a "remaster rebuild"? That is, do I have to sell all my gear (or buy new gear based on the table values), or can I just tweak a few skills and spells and be done without the whole rigmarole? I'm pretty happy with my characters as they are, though I'm excited for the remaster.

...And if minor tweaks don't trigger a rebuild, what's the threshold between minor tweaks and a full rebuild?

Gimme an example of what you mean by "minor updates" and I'll try and thread that needle.

With the caveat that most of my characters won't have any changes until PC2, and the additional caveat that I of course know only what has been announced for PC1, if I'm happy with Ancestry, Background, Class, Attributes, and Skills (and other things I haven't thought about, but with the assumption that the basic skill and feat progression didn't change much)...

Maybe I just need to tweak a couple of spells on a bard to bring them in-line with the remaster, which would otherwise require retraining or rebuilding. Or maybe need to change a feat on a Rogue that has been rendered obsolete or undesirable to me by some of the quality-of-life changes in the remaster.

The big one I could see at the moment is someone who is pretty happy with their Rogue or Wizard but there might be a couple of things (feats or other bits that can't just be altered at will) that they either want or need to update to bring into alignment with the remaster. But since I haven't made a Wizard I don't really have a concrete example for that.

If you want to make changes to feats, that always requires retraining. You can do that through any of the previously-existing methods, or use your Remaster Rebuild to do it.

Some spellcasting classes (maybe all? I'm not an expert) allow you to change spells out when you learn new ones; that might be a better option for someone who no longer wants the new version of light or similar. Otherwise yeah, that would require a rebuild of some sort.

I should note that you don't have to sell all your gear and take the 8 TB/level amount. You can just sell certain items for purchase value and buy new ones. The 8 TB/level option is there for those of us with high-level characters for whom that would be onerous, or who are lazy and bad at math (me. I'm talking about me).

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

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Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.

^ This.

Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?

Hmm

4/5 ****

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Also just wanted to say:

I think in general the policy here is really good and its nice to see a broad strokes plan ahead of time so that as many details can be worked out in advance for a smooth transition.

You can keep existing characters built as is, but have to use the updated versions of spells etc.

You can freely remake them with the new chassis if you want.

Some special options like Runelord can be kept if using the old way, because they don't work with the new stuff


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

My partner and I have signed up to do some pathfinder society but haven't gotten around to playing yet.

From what i can tell these feel like a really well thought out way to handle the remaster, it does it's best to incentivize the new rules while not completely keeping people out or forcing them to rebuild.

The rule around stuff like Produce Flame and Ignition feels especially nice, and seems like good guidelines for tables in general.

Venture-Agent, Maine–Brunswick

So, as someone who has gotten into PF2 organized play recently, my highest level character may be third level by end of November? The idea of rebuilding a PC seems somewhat more important for higher level characters?

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I am just happy my Runelord is level 7! Sorshen I’m still coming for you! This will be good. And it’s a lot to take in. I am going to be trying to do events that weekend to help players learn more and discuss changes. BUT it’s a MTG release so that limits space.

Dark Archive 4/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku

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Dennis Muldoon wrote:
I will miss the free lore skill that came with school training. More Lore skills at the table is fun. Any chance we could replace training with something like “all PFS characters are automatically trained in PFS lore”? It’s honestly never really made sense to me that you’re average Pathfinder wouldn’t know the basic history of the Society.
HMM wrote:
Can we just add PFS Lore as a bonus lore to all characters?

This actually already exists :D The lore you get from the PFS training replaces the default PFS lore that all Pathfinders get as part of the character creation. If you don't choose a school, you get PFS lore automatically :D

3/5 **

Alex Speidel wrote:
Beginning on November 15, 2023, no new characters may be created using the class chassis printed in the Core Rulebook if the class has been reprinted in the Player Core.

What about the Advanced Player’s Guide? Is that likewise being phased out in a similar way?

Alex Speidel wrote:

If a character option has not been reprinted, characters are free to use the option as previously printed, or to select it at any time.

1. Example: the brooch of shielding has not been reprinted. Characters may still purchase and use a brooch of shielding.

I presume that if a character DOES do the Remaster rebuild, then this option is waived? So if I rebuild my wizard to be in line with the Remaster, then I can no longer purchase a brooch of shielding?

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