Welcome to the War of Immortals Playtest!

Woot! So stoked to try out the exemplar.

“Coming in Winter 2024”

Is that the Winter that ends in March 2024 or the Winter that begins in December 2024?

I assume it’s not the Australian Winter that starts in June. :)

Why is the word "ikons" spelled that way?

“Coming in Winter 2024”

Is that the Winter that ends in March 2024 or the Winter that begins in December 2024?

I assume it’s not the Australian Winter that starts in June. :)

It means the 4th quarter of 2024.

The animist and exemplar will appear in the upcoming sourcebook Pathfinder War of Immortals, scheduled for Winter 2024, which also brings new legendary creatures and character options for a wide variety of classes and characters, as well as bringing new mythic rules to Pathfinder!

Happy birthday, belgrath.

Is this a typo in the sage's apparition's possession power?

You relinquish control of your physical body to an apparition,

allowing it to fully unleash its spiritual power at the cost of
your own agency. Until the start of your next turn, you are
immune to control effects and spells that attempt to influence
your actions, such as charm or command, unless its spell rank
is more than twice your level.

Is the bolded part a typo? Should it be "more than half your level" instead more than TWICE your level?

For comparison, a level 3 animist using this power would need to be targeted by an effec that's spell rank is More than TWICE their level, so spell rank 7. To cast an effect of spell rank 7, caster typically needs to be lvl 13+. So, 3rd level animist is immune to these effects from casters that are level 12 or lower?

Similarly, at level 5 (when using this power) they would become completely immune to all chamr and command effects, since to be affected they would need to be targeted by an effect that has spellrank 11... And max spell rank is 10.

Quote:

The animist and exemplar will appear in the upcoming sourcebook Pathfinder War of Immortals, scheduled for Winter 2024, which also brings new legendary creatures and character options for a wide variety of classes and characters, as well as bringing new mythic rules to Pathfinder!

Happy birthday, belgrath.

Indeed. I hereby most sincerely recant my blasphemous ways and look forward to Mythic goodness for all the classes.

I wonder what a Mythic Exemplar will look like.

I guess we will not have a playtest for the Mythic rules though.

:O I'm heavily shook by mentions of words "mythic rules"

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? Is there second playtest later? Is 2e mythic something else than level 21-25 equivalent? x'D

Mythic rules are categorically NOT an extension of the game past 20th level.

Is this a typo in the sage's apparition's possession power?

Quote:

You relinquish control of your physical body to an apparition,

allowing it to fully unleash its spiritual power at the cost of
your own agency. Until the start of your next turn, you are
immune to control effects and spells that attempt to influence
your actions, such as charm or command, unless its spell rank
is more than twice your level.

Is the bolded part a typo? Should it be "more than half your level" instead more than TWICE your level?

For comparison, a level 3 animist using this power would need to be targeted by an effec that's spell rank is More than TWICE their level, so spell rank 7. To cast an effect of spell rank 7, caster typically needs to be lvl 13+. So, 3rd level animist is immune to these effects from casters that are level 12 or lower?

Similarly, at level 5 (when using this power) they would become completely immune to all chamr and command effects, since to be affected they would need to be targeted by an effect that has spellrank 11... And max spell rank is 10.

I can only assume it's a typo and it's supposed to work like incapacitation (that is, your level is higher than double spell rank) otherwise that's just a train wreck. And really, really dumb. 5th level PCs being immune to all control effects is antithetical to the PF 2e philosophy.

Personally I'm sort of horrified that this class gets NO save upticks. Like resolve, juggernaut, evasion, etc. It's possible that this is just the model for classes going forward and kineticist was a weird exception because it's Con-based, but it's concerning.

Is this a typo in the sage's apparition's possession power?

Quote:

You relinquish control of your physical body to an apparition,

allowing it to fully unleash its spiritual power at the cost of
your own agency. Until the start of your next turn, you are
immune to control effects and spells that attempt to influence
your actions, such as charm or command, unless its spell rank
is more than twice your level.

Is the bolded part a typo? Should it be "more than half your level" instead more than TWICE your level?

It should be more than half your level, not twice your level, yes. Little bit of a mix-up there due to some terminology juggling.

Tomppa wrote:

Is this a typo in the sage's apparition's possession power?

Quote:

You relinquish control of your physical body to an apparition,

allowing it to fully unleash its spiritual power at the cost of
your own agency. Until the start of your next turn, you are
immune to control effects and spells that attempt to influence
your actions, such as charm or command, unless its spell rank
is more than twice your level.

Is the bolded part a typo? Should it be "more than half your level" instead more than TWICE your level?

It should be more than half your level, not twice your level, yes. Little bit of a mix-up there due to some terminology juggling.

Thanks!

I'm nerding out a bit looking through the abilities of Exemplar and putting together the inspirations for them.

Warped By Rage was a surprise (this is definitely Cu Chulainn, right?)

Why is the word "ikons" spelled that way?

Because if it were spelled "icons" it might be confused with something else.

Personally I'm sort of horrified that this class gets NO save upticks. Like resolve, juggernaut, evasion, etc. It's possible that this is just the model for classes going forward and kineticist was a weird exception because it's Con-based, but it's concerning.

The Channeler Intermediate Boon grants Master Fortitude proficiency, so I think they're going to be in the subclass choices rather than the core class features to allow for more differentiate between each subclass.

Also is Animist just the highest spell slot class out there now? They get 4 per spell rank baseline, but they also get +1 apparition slot per rank at level 10, which unless I'm missing something is 5 spell slots per rank. It's been a while since I looked at PF2 stuff but I don't think any other class gets more than 4 slots per rank.

Calliope5431 wrote:

Personally I'm sort of horrified that this class gets NO save upticks. Like resolve, juggernaut, evasion, etc. It's possible that this is just the model for classes going forward and kineticist was a weird exception because it's Con-based, but it's concerning.

The Channeler Intermediate Boon grants Master Fortitude proficiency, so I think they're going to be in the subclass choices rather than the core class features to allow for more differentiate between each subclass.

Yeah I know, but sage gets nothing to COMPENSATE for not getting Will save uptick and not getting master Fortitude proficiency. It's just stuck at expert proficiency in all saves forever.

Huh. I may have to get a retraining Boon to retrain my Starstone Hopeful, Teki Stronggut, to the Exemplar class.

The idea of Nephellim Fleshwarp Exemplar sounds pretty inticing. With the idea being your body not being able to quite handle the divine spark now within you

Mythic rules are categorically NOT an extension of the game past 20th level.

- Mythic rules are in the book

Hm....

I'm going to guess for the moment that "mythic rules" is mostly "you get a mythic archetype", possibly with some sort of Free Archetype thing.

So does animist give 1 focus point, singular, or 2 focus points, plural? I assume it gives 2, because it says 2. But it says "you start with a focus pool of 2 Focus Point" singular, implying someone changed their mind halfway through the design process or forgot to type an "s".

Looks like another book I'll have to add to my collection.

Mythic rules are categorically NOT an extension of the game past 20th level.

Does it still help you fight demigod tier foes like Tar-Baphon or the Demon Lords?

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Mythic rules are categorically NOT an extension of the game past 20th level.

- Mythic rules are in the book

- These rules are explicitly not an extension past lvl 20.
- The book is apparently full of archetypes that are capable of granting various forms of immortality.

Hm....

I'm going to guess for the moment that "mythic rules" is mostly "you get a mythic archetype", possibly with some sort of Free Archetype thing.

My guess has always been that "Mythic Archetype" is a new, separate mechanical 'slot' for characters.

So does animist give 1 focus point, singular, or 2 focus points, plural? I assume it gives 2, because it says 2. But it says "you start with a focus pool of 2 Focus Point" singular, implying someone changed their mind halfway through the design process or forgot to type an "s".

It gets 2. You get 1 Focus Point per Focus Spell you have, and they start with 2 Focus Spells. This is further clarified when they get their third apparition slot (and thus third Focus Spell), which also says that their Focus Points increase to 3.

....Maui?

Sanityfaerie wrote:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Mythic rules are categorically NOT an extension of the game past 20th level.

- Mythic rules are in the book

- These rules are explicitly not an extension past lvl 20.
- The book is apparently full of archetypes that are capable of granting various forms of immortality.

Hm....

I'm going to guess for the moment that "mythic rules" is mostly "you get a mythic archetype", possibly with some sort of Free Archetype thing.

My guess has always been that "Mythic Archetype" is a new, separate mechanical 'slot' for characters.

That is how the original mythic rules worked. It wasn't a post-20 progression it was a completely separate 10 rank progression that could be added to characters at any level. In fact I used it alongside E6 to make for an interesting alternate progression style while keeping actual levels low.

I'm guessing it's gonna be something similar here, a completely separate progression path that can be slotted in whenever you want to start being mythic.

I’m beyond excited for these classes ^w^

Mythic returning less so.

Even more less so that it isn’t getting playtested.

Hm. In the playtest document, the prepositions in "Peerless under Heaven" and "Transcend—Crash against Me" are both lowercase; in contrast on Adventure Path #199's paizo.com store page, the preposition in the middle of "To Bloom Below the Web" is capitalized.

So for Sanctified Soul, is it a safe bet to say that the sanctified damage applies only to spirit damage dealt with those abilities? Or with "Whose Cry Is Thunder" does the electricity damage become sanctified? It's sort of ambiguous, but I think that's the intent?

"All your exemplar abilities that deal spirit damage gain the sanctified trait, allowing you to apply your holy or unholy trait to them to better affect your chosen enemies" implies that regardless of whether or not they're dealing spirit damage RIGHT NOW, they're still such an ability.

Excited that mythic rules are coming in addition to these classes! I hope they're a lot more flavorful than the 1e rules, like what Owlcat ended up doing with their take on the mythic paths.

I like Samo's hat. *downloads playtest based solely on this*

First readthru the animist class...some questions:

Vessel spells = Start with 2 focus points but the max focus points = number you know. You start with 1 focus point so is it possible to start with 2 focus points?
Channeler intermediate boon = increase Fort to master and Will success=critical success...is it supposed to be all Fort or all Will?

First readthru the animist class...some questions:

Animist spellcasting = do you get 2 free new spells per level?

You get the number of total slots shown in the table, which includes the slots from Advanced Interlocution. You don't gain additional spells known because on the divine side you have access to the entire tradition and on the apparition side your spells are based on the ones your apparition gives you.

Vessel spells = Start with 2 focus points but the max focus points = number you know. You start with 1 focus point so is it possible to start with 2 focus points?

You start with two focus points because you start with access to two focus spells from your two apparitions.

Channeler intermediate boon = increase Fort to master and Will success=critical success...is it supposed to be all Fort or all Will?

No, it's correct as-is.

You start with two focus points because you start with access to two focus spells from your two apparitions.

But you start with only 1 focus spell from your primary apparition, right?

Hopefully with a title like "War of Immortals" the new mythic rules will allow us to stand up against Demon Lords and the like, as in 1e. I'm very much looking forward to fighting some major enemies like such, reminded of the Wrath of the Righteous AP.

Quote:

You start with two focus points because you start with access to two focus spells from your two apparitions.

But you start with only 1 focus spell from your primary apparition, right?

You have one available at a time since you have 1 primary apparition at a time, but the channeler practice can swap back and forth between primary apparitions as a single action, and could e.g. cast one vessel spell, Apparition's Whirl into another primary, and cast its vessel spell.

So you start with 2 Focus Points and then gain your third when you get the Third Apparition class feature.

Huh, I also just noticed that War of the Immortals says it's slated for Winter 2024, so it's not a gen con release? Interesting, though I'm kind of assuming it's because gencon will be more focused on the Starfinder 2e playtest book.

I’m beyond excited for these classes ^w^

Mythic returning less so.

Even more less so that it isn’t getting playtested.

I mean, we're more than a year out from the book's release. I imagine Paizo doesn't want the cacophany that'd result from playtesting two new classes as well as the mythic rules at the same time.

Best to get feedback on one thing first, then the other.

Huh, I also just noticed that War of the Immortals says it's slated for Winter 2024, so it's not a gen con release? Interesting, though I'm kind of assuming it's because gencon will be more focused on the Starfinder 2e playtest book.

We've announced Player Core 2 as the Gen Con Pathfinder rulebook release. Monster Core is targeted for late Q1. Howl of the Wild is Q2.

I think my immediate problem with the Exemplar is the limitation on their weapon Ikons. It's slashing or piercing, sword or knife, hammer or club or axe, spear or polearm or stick, and ranged weapons. It'd been cool to see things like shield boss (though technically barrow's edge does let you use shield spikes) or brawling weapons. I do like the idea you could have an Exemplar with a gun, like some sort of Legend of the Mana Waste.

As for the Animist. I Hope we get more spirits that aren't nature spirits, like machine spirits, city spirits, or spirits of roads. If we're going animist lets go full Shinto and then some where everything has a spirit, even that hundred year old kettle that's kind of evil and wants to kill me, fortunately it's just an angry kettle (for now).

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Huh, I also just noticed that War of the Immortals says it's slated for Winter 2024, so it's not a gen con release? Interesting, though I'm kind of assuming it's because gencon will be more focused on the Starfinder 2e playtest book.

We've announced Player Core 2 as the Gen Con Pathfinder rulebook release.

Gotcha, I missed that, sweet.

As for the Animist. I Hope we get more spirits that aren't nature spirits, like machine spirits, city spirits, or spirits of roads. If we're going animist lets go full Shinto and then some where everything has a spirit, even that hundred year old kettle that's kind of evil and wants to kill me, fortunately it's just an angry kettle (for now).

I expect the number of apparitions available to increase significantly post-playtest, and to cover a broad array of themes.

Grave Knight wrote:

As for the Animist. I Hope we get more spirits that aren't nature spirits, like machine spirits, city spirits, or spirits of roads. If we're going animist lets go full Shinto and then some where everything has a spirit, even that hundred year old kettle that's kind of evil and wants to kill me, fortunately it's just an angry kettle (for now).

I expect the number of apparitions available to increase significantly post-playtest, and to cover a broad array of themes.

I've personally got my fingers crossed for a space/stars-y option somewhere!

I am entertained by the fact that Eternity-Incinerating Blaze seems tailor-made to kill the Spawn of Rovagug. Seeing as it's not a [Death] trait effect but still destroys them when they hit 0 hp.

I assume it's not intended, but given the Rare nature of the class I can't quite tell.

I've personally got my fingers crossed for a space/stars-y option somewhere!

Oh that's a cool thought yes!

Also it looks like "No Scar But This" is not time-limited, so it's literally unlimited healing on you. That's a lot of healing to have at-will every round, even if you're using an action to shift your spark back to body.

I don't know about you but their entirely new class animist is a far closer adaption of the pathfinder 1e shaman than the 2e summoner is of the 1e summoner.

Quote:

The animist and exemplar will appear in the upcoming sourcebook Pathfinder War of Immortals, scheduled for Winter 2024, which also brings new legendary creatures and character options for a wide variety of classes and characters, as well as bringing new mythic rules to Pathfinder!

Happy birthday, belgrath.

ong yes we're is thus stated YESSSS!

Grave Knight wrote:

As for the Animist. I Hope we get more spirits that aren't nature spirits, like machine spirits, city spirits, or spirits of roads. If we're going animist lets go full Shinto and then some where everything has a spirit, even that hundred year old kettle that's kind of evil and wants to kill me, fortunately it's just an angry kettle (for now).

I expect the number of apparitions available to increase significantly post-playtest, and to cover a broad array of themes.

I have similar hopes for the variety and broadness of exemplar epithets to increase post-playtest!

Mythic rules are categorically NOT an extension of the game past 20th level.

That has me all a little concerned, given how the last set of mythic ruled crushed the already not very big on balance 1E. Me changing to 2E was in large part motivated by the much better game balance. I hope these new rules do not throw that completely out of whack.

so does this mean that we'll get cr 26-30 creatures now & rules for building them