Save the Date for a New Pathfinder Class Playtest!

Regarding actual classes... part of me is thinking that since the Magus and Summoner are out and wave casting is official, this is a really good chance to expand upon that... because gishes are really cool and we need more good gishes. The magus is only one specific spell list so that opens up a lot of opportunities for other options.

On the other hand, since we just got two wave casters, they might wnat to explore something else.

One half-formed thought I had about them though is that right now both the Magus and the Summoner work in part because they get to cheat the proficiency system: Summoners can start with 2 18s and get to distribute stat bonuses independently between their two halves and Magi can make spell attacks using their weapon, which diminishes their reliance on their casting attribute. Both of these mechanics make the character a lot more flexible and reliable than if they'd had to follow the rules 'normally' for this kind of thing.

Makes me wonder what, if any, sort of similar mechanic might show up on future wave casters.

Regarding actual classes... part of me is thinking that since the Magus and Summoner are out and wave casting is official, this is a really good chance to expand upon that... because gishes are really cool and we need more good gishes. The magus is only one specific spell list so that opens up a lot of opportunities for other options.

On the other hand, since we just got two wave casters, they might wnat to explore something else.

One half-formed thought I had about them though is that right now both the Magus and the Summoner work in part because they get to cheat the proficiency system: Summoners can start with 2 18s and get to distribute stat bonuses independently between their two halves and Magi can make spell attacks using their weapon, which diminishes their reliance on their casting attribute. Both of these mechanics make the character a lot more flexible and reliable than if they'd had to follow the rules 'normally' for this kind of thing.

Makes me wonder what, if any, sort of similar mechanic might show up on future wave casters.

Yeah. I've been wondering if there's more specific space for a self-buffer who can on the fly convert spell slots (instead of using them for whatever they normally would) into class-feature attack or effect boosts. Similar to but bigger and more flexible than Arcane Cascade? I dunno. Like adding 1+spell level as damage to X number of strikes, can end early for other effects... Could carry a bunch of interesting riders, could live in the occult zone. Would take some careful balancing though.

I also think that's not happening, but I still think it's cool.

I don't really see it as cheating the proficiency system. Specially considering neither the Magus or Summoner really change how proficiency works. But I do think that they might try more ways to get around their own self made limitations. At least to some extent.

As for your idea @Sporkedup , what you are describing is the "consume spell" feature that both Magus and Arcanist used to have. Except what they did was add more points to their resource pools as opposed to direct effects like you mention.

Gaulin wrote:

My personal want is to have another apg book, one that tries to get as many pf1 classes out for 2e as it can. With lessons learned from SoM and APG, the half classes like bloodrager, skald, slayer, brawler, hunter, and shaman could be class archetypes.

Edit - before someone points it out, I know this won't happen, as future books will be themed. It's just me wishlisting.

I wouldn't say that's entirely true. I can see an APG2 in the form of a book designed to just give a bunch more mechanical options, in particular Class Archetypes and Ancestriesfor one. Options is a theme unto itself. Most of the books we've seen so far have either leaned heavy into the lore instead of mechanics(making it more or less 80/20), while others have been sorta balanced (50/50 ish). I can see potential for a book that is more mechanical than lore; which is to say most of the lore in such a book would likely be to give a place to the options therein. ...

In one of the PaizoCon panels they stated design would lean toward lore because the mechanics can be found on Archives. Personally, I like the balance they have been doing.

This is a weird pull maybe and I basically don't expect it, but would people feel about a Necromancer class?

In my mind, each of the seven schools could be their own class IF it had a new an interesting mechanic.

Conjurer: summons a more powerful/flexible entity almost permanently.
Transmuter: takes a cue from classic Stevenson novel and ties mutations to potions. Well as long as you are mixing potions lets mix some bombs.
Enchanter: able to mesmerize targets by just making eye contact.
Evoker: Hey, lets blow up some stuff. Well as long as you are mixing bombs lets mix some potions too. (I don't know which came first).

Druid used to be a subclass of cleric. Paladin, ranger, barbarian, swashbucklers used to be fighters. The trick is to move them far enough from a mage mechanically to not seem like a mage. With the dedications of PF2 this is even more important.

So create a 'necromancer mechanic' that is something not spell casting & I am all for it! I think with healing now being in the necromancy school PF2 is ripe for not-a-necromancer.

Hunh?!? I thought this thread was about the upcoming class playtest...

It is, but there is only so much we can discuss on that front with no information. So, it has expanded to be more a discussion on what's possible, how it might work, and how it might not.

Mind you, threads like this are very likely to be used to gauge the interest and desires of the fan base. So, even none of what is being discussed particularly pertains to this specific playtest, the information is invariably still being taken into consideration.

@Curaigh: I'm aware. That was not to suggest that they won't continue that trend or that there wouldn't be lore in such a book. Only that there is certainly room for a book (likely just one) that focuses more on adding new rules and mechanics as the bulk of its word count.

Agreed. :)

I'm kinda interested to see what new types of martials we could get. Other than 4e Warlord or something defensive focused (aside from Champion) akin to Midnightoker's wonderful Drifter, I honestly can't imagine anything new in that department. Sure, there's a couple of class archetypes for the current ones martial classes that would be interesting to see. I'm talking purely martial, no spells/wavecasting. Any ideas?

A class I would like to see implemented at some point(although it might be better as an archetype) would be a luck themed class, which I could see as a martial, or a martial with focus spells esque character.

I'm kinda interested to see what new types of martials we could get. Other than 4e Warlord or something defensive focused (aside from Champion) akin to Midnightoker's wonderful Drifter, I honestly can't imagine anything new in that department. Sure, there's a couple of class archetypes for the current ones martial classes that would be interesting to see. I'm talking purely martial, no spells/wavecasting. Any ideas?

Hmm. Well there is the potentiality of seeing the Samurai and Ninja making a return. My thoughts on Samurai is a martial that frequently employs weapon stances and special attacks, like iai slashes and counters. My Ninja idea is straight up Naruto, gaining a bunch of Focus Spells and a means to regularly recover Focus points to allow for consistent use. But, that goes against the "no spells" but.

I've seen some suggest maybe Medium having room to fill a martial role by channeling of certain spirits.

Looking through TV Tropes page on fantasy classes, a lot of them are kind of touched on, or could be once some of the 1e classes are added (if they are). So, maybe we could see something original? Couldn't begin to guess what though.

Some of the more martial focused 1e classes that are left may have potential as Archetypes, unless they see some revision to flesh them out.

My thoughts on Samurai is a martial that frequently employs weapon stances and special attacks, like iai slashes and counters.

I wasn't really interested about the idea of a Samurai redux but this got me thinking, imo it'd be a cool area to explore.

One thing PF2 kind of brushes on in a lot of ways is giving martials new ways to fight with alternative actions... but most of them are relatively minor right now. Strike + X new thing. They're either situational or just something you use to replace a vanilla strike outright. Stances are largely the same... if you have a stance you probably just sit in it forever.

But I think it'd be a really cool design space to go all in on and make a martial who gets a bunch of unique activities with the intention that they use it like a toolkit of options to cycle between. Stances, unique attacks, reactions, whatever.

I'm just imagining a specialized warrior who picks which attacks to use or stances to enter in the same way the party wizard picks which spell to cast on any given round.

Admittedly that sounds a little complicated, but like I said I think it'd be an interesting design space that contrasts a bit with how a lot of martials currently play while not necessarily requiring a brand new subsystem either.

Don't think it would be that complicated. It's complicated in that it would be expansive. But it struck me as a neat area to explore, one that reflects their ceaseless discipline in their art. The idea was largely inspired by the Monk Stance Feats, but also games like Nioh, Sekiro, and Tsushima that have similar ideas.

Some of 1e's Samurai Archetypes could function well as advanced stances for the 2e Samurai. Like the Ironbound Swords focus on incapacitating their enemies, or the Sword Saint's swift Iaijutsu Strikes. Some of them could be weapon agnostic, while others rely on certain kinds of weapons. Like, maybe one inspired by Sohei and their frequent use of polearms.

I'd be super down for a martial that flows between stances; Monk of Many Styles was a cool idea that never quite got there beyond the multiclass cheese and I think the concept would work a lot better in PF2 where breadth of options can be better than raw power.

I would love a book of war, with the Tactician who would be a Martial all about interacting with allies and opponents (and terrain features maybe) and the Battle Master who would be a Martial as described above, all about stances and special attacks, with maybe a subclass with some focus spells.

I agree it would be really interesting to see a class that makes wildly different use of stances and the open/press traits.

At first I though that Fighter would be the one. But if not them another class should be able to do it.

I can honestly see the Brawler coming back as a stance based character with Martial Versatility to change their stance feat on the fly.

I'm kinda interested to see what new types of martials we could get.

The design space that exists in "martial proficiencies + focus spells + class defining unique mechanic(s)" is incredibly vast.

Give me a nature warrior, a spooky warrior, a mind-games warrior, a biokenesis warrior, etc.

Memyselfishness wrote:

I'm kinda interested to see what new types of martials we could get.

The design space that exists in "martial proficiencies + focus spells + class defining unique mechanic(s)" is incredibly vast.

Give me a nature warrior, a spooky warrior, a mind-games warrior, a biokenesis warrior, etc.

Nature Warrior: Shifter-ish. Wild Shape-type stuff. Maybe the focus-on-a-single-form-forever class a lot of people have been wanting.

Spooky Warrior: Something possession-oriented, maybe? Shaman-like?

Mind Games Warrior: Something like the cipher from Pillars of Eternity would be pretty cool.

Biokinesis Warrior: Craft your own natural weapons. Give yourself a seed pod and/or spiky wings.

I see nature warrior (other than ranger) as a 4e warden or a type of green knight.

Martial that focuses on special stances and strikes they cycle between through sounds like path of war/book of 9 swords style class. which I would totally be down for.

I see nature warrior (other than ranger) as a 4e warden or a type of green knight.

4e Warden was such a cool concept I'd love to see something like that.

A stance focused martial might also suit Monks as a class archetype. Not that I'm necessarily shooting down the idea.

I could see a "energy/soul weapon" class and "shapeshifter" class as being one in the same. Focused less on external weapons (or other things) and more of a magical martial. Could cover primal shifter, abberent mutators, or arcane weapon summoners. Don't have a name for the idea. "Ascetic" is the most I have and I'm unsure about it.

I think the other portions if the Cavalier that the archetype didn't cover could make a solid class. "Knight" can cover the commander aspect while also bringing a lot more flavor. Also cover Samurai if need be.

Martial that focuses on special stances and strikes they cycle between through sounds like path of war/book of 9 swords style class. which I would totally be down for.

The Book of 9 Swords (and PF1 adaptations) style classes were some of my favorites for 3.5. I would LOVE to see that come back.

Likewise Binder and Incarnum classes.

A stance focused martial might also suit Monks as a class archetype. Not that I'm necessarily shooting down the idea.

I could see a "energy/soul weapon" class and "shapeshifter" class as being one in the same. Focused less on external weapons (or other things) and more of a magical martial. Could cover primal shifter, abberent mutators, or arcane weapon summoners. Don't have a name for the idea. "Ascetic" is the most I have and I'm unsure about it.

I think the other portions if the Cavalier that the archetype didn't cover could make a solid class. "Knight" can cover the commander aspect while also bringing a lot more flavor. Also cover Samurai if need be.

I thought about a Knight Class, but I think that Paizo is intent on keeping the concept of being a Knight open to all classes. Kind of how they opened the idea of mounted combat to everyone with the Cavalier Archetype.

For a long time, I wanted them to make a true Spellcasting Monk Class and call it the Mystic. But I don't think that'll ever happen.

As an aside, I just broadly want more Stances for everybody. Such an immediately cool mechanic.

Agreed. Some Stances for Casters would be interesting as well. OR mayybe call them Trances? Enter into distinct frames of mind that allow cool benefits and actions.

I know that's stepping on the toes of what some people expected from one of the Occult Classes. But sounded neat.

Removed some posts bordering on personal attack. Let's keep the focus on what the playtest classes will be (not too much longer to wait either!).

Locking my guess in for Inquisitor + a “new” Occult caster (that likely draws on bits of both Medium and Occultist), though I won’t be too surprised if it is the Warlord.

The only thing holding me back from saying the next announced book will be a skill based one is that there aren't any 1e classes left to fit that mold. But dang do we need more skill and general feats.

Locking my guess in for Inquisitor + Warlord

The only thing holding me back from saying the next announced book will be a skill based one is that there aren't any 1e classes left to fit that mold. But dang do we need more skill and general feats.

Uh, not to steal Keftiu's thunder, but skill based is one of the Inquisitor's notches, so that would fit.

Warlord would be a skilled frontliner.

I say the book is going to be Occult themed and we will be getting the equivalent of the Occultist and the Psychic.

+1 for guessing inquisitor plus occult class

Occultist and Inquisitor are my picks. Both classes are pretty appropriate for what should be a spooky year.

Spooky skary skeletons.

Sticking to my guns... erm, swords?

Swinging for Warlord and Inquisitor.

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My heart tells me: inquisitor + warlord. My brain tells me: inquisitor + occult caster.

I think I am rooting for medium/spirit caller/shaman and maybe a more martial Verizon of that class in the vein of a warden or hunter.

I think it will have something to do with Blood Magic
I think occult caster focusing on blood Magic and
Blood Rager. Could be inquisitor. I do not see Warlord
Since we got Marshall Archetype in the Advanced Players
Guide that could be combined Champion or Fighter that can feel like Warlord. I do think Samurai and Ninja are coming just
not the next two classes.

Less than a week until GenCon! I'm so excited~

I'll take a page out of Michael's book now.

One class has a name that is 9 or fewer characters, the other class has a name that is 9 or more characters.

Gentlefolk, start your Scrabbles

Inquisitor is longer than 9!

O-C-C-U-L-T-I-S-T IS EXACTLY 9 LETTERS! WE COULD HAVE 2 OCCULTISTS! XD

Bloodrager is more than 9.
Mesmerist is exactly 9.
Psychic is less than 9.
Arcanist is less than 9.
Kineticist is more than 9. (I still think its doubtful)
Ninja is less than 9.
Samurai is less than 9.
Vampire Hunter is more than 9.
Omdura is less than 9.
Slayer is less than 9.
Medium is less than 9.

Well that's a big chunk, if any of you can think of some more it would be great.

Less than a week until GenCon! I'm so excited~

I'll take a page out of Michael's book now.

One class has a name that is 9 or fewer characters, the other class has a name that is 9 or more characters.

Classes from James and Michael?

James Case wrote:

Less than a week until GenCon! I'm so excited~

I'll take a page out of Michael's book now.

One class has a name that is 9 or fewer characters, the other class has a name that is 9 or more characters.

Classes from James and Michael?

Nope, just mirroring a teaser Mike used for Guns and Gears back before that playtest started.

Bloodrager is more than 9.

Mesmerist is exactly 9.
72Psychic is less than 9.
Arcanist is less than 9.
Kineticist is more than 9. (I still think its doubtful)
Ninja is less than 9.
Samurai is less than 9.
Vampire Hunter is more than 9.
Omdura is less than 9.
Slayer is less than 9.
Medium is less than 9.

Well that's a big chunk, if any of you can think of some more it would be great.

To shorten the list

Omdura and Vampire Hunter are also classes from non golarion source books so they are entirely to return imo.

And now to extend the list, it is possible we aren't getting a remake of a 1e class at all.

Edit: also while this is a fun clue, we could in theory with this clue alone get any combination of classes because they don't say how much longer or how much shorter than 9 letters. It would be more useful to see what combinations can happen by separating the possible classes into 3 sections. Short, long and exact. Exact classes could be mixed from any table, while short can mix with any table that isn't itself and the same goes for long.

Let's really mess with our own heads. Why choose the number 9?

Let's really mess with our own heads. Why choose the number 9?

Because BOTH have 9 letters! [Mesmerist and Occultist] The more and less parts are just to throw us off! ;)

Unicore wrote:

Let's really mess with our own heads. Why choose the number 9?

Because BOTH have 9 letters! [Mesmerist and Occultist] The more and less parts are just to throw us off! ;)

That *feels* like a tease answer lol

I'll probs be happy with whatever but ive gotten way more excited for an inquisitor.

Let's really mess with our own heads. Why choose the number 9?

It's my birthday, I vaguely recall my halmoni once telling me it was lucky and I believed her, and it's more or less in the middle of everyone's guesses for not locking toooooo much down before the big announcement :P

vagrant-poet wrote:

James Case wrote:

Less than a week until GenCon! I'm so excited~

I'll take a page out of Michael's book now.

One class has a name that is 9 or fewer characters, the other class has a name that is 9 or more characters.

Classes from James and Michael?

Nope, just mirroring a teaser Mike used for Guns and Gears back before that playtest started.

Ah! Interesting to see who's taking the leads on the classes next week.