Pathfinder Society Second Edition Preview: Earned Benefits

Wednesday, April 24, 2019

When we announced Pathfinder Second Edition, the organized play team began gathering feedback from our player base and volunteer organizers as to what they liked about Pathfinder Society and what they would like carried over to Second Edition campaign. We continued this outreach in person and across a variety of digital platforms and the end of 2018 saw several rounds of blog posts collated from forum threads and surveys associated with the blog topics.

Your feedback and input were leading factors as we assessed what worked well that we wanted to keep, and how to incorporate your choices for a player-influenced campaign. Throughout our conversations, we regularly referred back to your responses to ensure that new rules addressed the community's concerns wherever possible. The process has taken some time, and more than a year has passed between the new edition's announcement and today's blog. Now that the Core Rulebook is at the printer, we can start announcing what Pathfinder Society will look like when it launches at Gen Con 2019.

It's worth noting that some of these decisions were contentious, often including survey data with mixed results that pushed us to deliberate how best to deliver a quality organized play experience while doing what we can to address opposing concerns. That said, these include changes. It's our goal that these changes strengthen the new campaign while maintaining the spirit of the Pathfinder Society, and we ask that you see them in action before judging their ultimate merit. We'll be listening especially closely for feedback from players and volunteers alike in the campaign's early months, and if something isn't working correctly, we'll be looking for ways to adjust and fine tune.

Also, there's far more for us to announce that can be reasonably fit in a single blog, so we'll be posting more updates over the next several months. You'll see a variety of organized play team members introducing organized play nuances of character building, running adventures, and factions. And even if a team member doesn't appear as a blog's author, know what we've all had a hand in creating these new policies and features. All told, a lot is coming between now and Gen Con.

For this week, we want to focus on what you earn—both as a player and as a PC.

The Basics

Let's introduce some terms, many familiar and a few new or slightly changed. In the First Edition campaign, you had four values that you might track: Experience Points (XP), Gold Pieces (GP), Fame, and Prestige Points (PP). In Starfinder Society, we renamed a few of these, but mostly just added a fifth value: Infamy. In Pathfinder Society's second edition campaign, there's a little more to track, but you'll see a lot you recognize from Starfinder Society in particular.

  • Experience Points (XP): These track a character's level.
  • Infamy: This tracks how notorious a PC is for having performed evil or highly disreputable actions. Most PCs are unlikely to earn this.
  • Reputation: This tracks how much influence a PC has in a faction.
  • Achievement Points (AcP): These are a player-based currency earned by playing and GMing Pathfinder Society games. These are used to access special character options and to gain special benefits tied to the campaign's rules.
  • Downtime: At the end of each adventure, a PC earns Downtime measured in days (3 days per 1 XP) that should be spent by the start of the next adventure. Downtime allows a PC to earn additional money through a profession, craft gear, retrain character options, and more.
  • Fame: This represents the PC's social capital, which they can spend on purchasing boons and services.
  • Gold Pieces (GP): These represent the PC's wealth, used to buy gear and services.

Seven fields are a decent amount to manage. Fortunately, three of these are tracking numbers (XP, Infamy, and Reputation) that will go up slowly over time. Three of these are currencies (Downtime, Fame, and GP) that your character uses to acquire gear and other edges. And one is a currency for you as a player.

We imagine you have questions! Let's look at these more closely.

Experience Points (XP)

When working out the XP system for Second Edition, we looked at several different models, including both the model that Pathfinder Society currently uses (3 XP = 1 Level) and a true XP system (such as how the Core Rulebook requires 1,000 XP to gain a level). In the end, we chose a system where there are 12 XP within each level. A scenario grants 4 XP, while a quest gives 1 XP. The chapters of longer, sanctioned adventures grant the full 12 XP needed to gain a level. One way to think about it is that each XP represents roughly 1 hour of play.

You may have seen us talking about quests in previous blogs, but in case you haven't, we're going to be releasing more of them going forward. We're adding one quest to each month's releases starting with the launch of the Second Edition campaign, in addition to two Pathfinder Society scenarios. Having more quests allows us to explore more locations and stories, and it gives more content for times and places where people can't sit down to play for hours at a time.

However, quests in First Edition were a little challenging to handle because there were two forms those quests took: either a bundle of 4–6 quests that required players to play the whole series to earn the full rewards, or stand-alone quests that granted no XP, GP, or Fame. In Second Edition, we're building the campaign so that quests are a rewards-granting entity from the very beginning, even for stand-alone quests. With each being worth 1 XP, it should be easier to track their rewards—including no need for fractional XP.

There's one other matter to discuss about Fractional XP: the Slow Advancement Track. The slow track is an option where players can choose at the beginning of an adventure to earn fewer rewards to slow their character's advancement. We will be retaining slow track in Second Edition. A slow track scenario will grant 2 XP. The only players who will see fractional XP are those who choose to use slow advancement track while playing a quest, earning 1/2 XP per quest.

Infamy

Oh, but we love Infamy. In the First Edition campaign, performing evil deeds could lead to a warning or a PC's possible expulsion from the campaign (barring atonement), but it was difficult to track. Instituting a quantitative tracking system mid-campaign proved surprisingly tricky, so when we were creating Starfinder Society, we built in Infamy from the beginning.

The concept's reasonably straightforward. When your PC does something utterly notorious, uncaring, or outright evil, they can earn a point of Infamy (many scenarios also include special notes about a particular circumstance that might grant Infamy). Before you follow through, the GM's supposed to warn you about the likely consequences, and it's your call whether to do it anyway. Infamy gets tracked between adventures, and if you end an adventure with 3 or more Infamy, the Society determines your PC is too significant a threat to the Society's reputation and interests to keep around; that PC's removed from play. You can spend a notable amount of Fame to remove Infamy, and each point of Infamy you have makes it a little harder to purchase gear. From what we've seen and heard in Starfinder Society is that Infamy gain is relatively rare, and it's pretty easy to predict and avoid.

Expect to see Infamy largely unchanged in the upcoming Pathfinder Society campaign.

Reputation and Fame

We're also pretty happy with how factions operate in Starfinder Society, and this model is strongly inspiring the Second Edition campaign. To catch you up to speed, Starfinder Society allows each PC to represent numerous factions, and each faction represents less an outside interest and more of a subculture within the Society with unique goals. As you adventure, you can choose to focus on one faction or more evenly spread out your influence in each one (i.e., Reputation). The higher your Reputation with a faction, the more faction-oriented goodies you can access. So in practice, Reputation is like XP for a faction. You earn it slowly, and it only goes up over time.

Essentially, fame is what we know as Prestige Points in Pathfinder Society's first edition. You can spend Fame to purchase various services, such as securing spellcasting and paying off any Infamy. It's also used to buy many of those faction-oriented benefits mentioned above.

Downtime

Pathfinder Society and Starfinder Society both have a basic Downtime mechanic already, for which the default benefit is the Day Job check—roll a skill check and earn some extract gold or credits. However, Downtime's also very direct, with each PC earning a unit of Downtime with no fractions or the like. There's some room for improvement.

Second Edition's core rules have Downtime mechanics built into the game, which makes it pretty darn easy for the Pathfinder Society experience to match how everyone else is playing the game. Downtime's used for a variety of tasks, from Earn Income to make some money, to Crafting to make your own gear (at a nicely balanced discount), to retraining class features, to any number of special outlets for Downtime that adventures might open up.

In the Second Edition campaign, expect to see Downtime and earn it after each adventure. The number of days of Downtime earned depend on the XP you earned, so barring any custom “gain bonus Downtime” rewards we might include in adventures, you can predict about how much you'll make at each level. Unlike other resources, you can't stockpile Downtime; you'll get some Downtime at the end of the adventure, and it's up to you to use it before the next adventure.

Gold Pieces (GP)

At face value, there might not seem to be anything to say here. Gold—and silver at earlier levels—lets you buy gear. You might have heard about Pathfinder Section Edition using a rarity system, though, so there's a little more involved when it comes to acquiring Uncommon or Rare equipment than throwing a bag of coins at the problem. For now, know that we're addressing rarities in a future blog, and every week we explore additional possibilities for opening up a portion of the Uncommon options in fun and accessible ways.

Achievement Points (AcP)

Okay, so gold, Downtime, Fame. These are things our organized play community has handled in some form or another before. Achievement Points may be more familiar than you think, but it's easy to overlook because their predecessor (Playtest Points) hasn't entirely wrapped up yet.

At their core, Achievement Points are about equality. As best I recall, Paizo introduced convention boons at Gen Con 2011, giving attendees a chance to win the first of many much-desired race boons. It took a little while, but slowly race boons became fairly common convention rewards beyond Gen Con, and they've been a staple of incentivizing convention play and celebrating attendees at Paizo-sponsored events since. Ah, but for as long as there have been convention boons, there have been concerns about those who can't make it to conventions (or in the case of some rarer rewards, those who can't make it to the “right” conventions). For every valid concern about missing content by not reaching conventions, there's an equally valid concern as to how the program can help keep the convention scene vibrant without great GM rewards (i.e., “If not race boons, then what?”).

Our answer is Achievement Points. Whenever you participate in—and report—a Pathfinder Society adventure, you earn Achievement Points. You'll receive a base amount for playing, earn more for GMing, and even more for GMing at Paizo-sponsored conventions like PaizoCon and Gen Con. No matter where you are or how you play, you'll be earning Achievement Points. We haven't finalized the exact numbers, as we are looking at how the Regional Support Program and Event Support for conventions interact and how we can incorporate both into the Achievement Point system. The chart of what activity earns what is one of those announcements for future blogs.

What does one do with these AcP (we're using that abbreviation to not confuse everyone about Adventure Paths)? You can redeem them on the Paizo website for different rewards that you might typically associate with convention boons or GM boons. No doubt that will include access to uncommon ancestries from upcoming products, but it could also include somewhat “meta” benefits like opening up replay options, providing a more comprehensive character rebuild, or starting a new PC at a higher level. Purchase the boon, print off a copy, and keep it with that PC. Or go digital and keep track of your AcP purchases on your My Organized Play page at Paizo.com The system we've requested and are testing auto-fills your organized play number and other key fields, limiting the potential to print off a hundred copies for all of your friends.

All told, it means that someone who plays a lot but never GMs could still save up to grab the reward of their choice, and someone who passionately GMs at numerous shows each year can accumulate and spend AcP more quickly. But everyone has access to the same rewards, with a few exceptions. We expect that there will be occasional limited-access options (like the charity boons Paizo's created for the past several years) but anticipate there to be far less Gen Con-exclusives. We also expect we'll shake up some of the options that AcP can access, but there will be an announcement period so participants can make the most informed decisions for their characters.

At this time, we are only planning AcP for Pathfinder Society and will provide physical boons for Starfinder Society and Pathfinder Adventure Card Society. If the AcP system works well, we will look at how we could incorporate it into the other Paizo organized play programs.

In Review

For someone familiar with our other organized play programs, there are some changes to the process. For someone new to Paizo organized play programs, it can be a lot to digest. We revisited what many of these scores to explain them more simply. Here's the TL,DR:

  • Experience Points (XP): This tells me my character level.
  • Infamy: This is rare and tracks how much of a jerk my PC has been.
  • Reputation: This is how much a faction likes me.
  • Achievement Points (AcP): I spend these on any of my PCs to access unusual character options and opportunities.
  • Downtime: This is my character's free time for training, earning money, or making things.
  • Fame: I spend this on buying boons and favors.
  • Gold Pieces(GP): I spend this on gear and services.

John Compton
Organized Play Lead Developer

Tonya Woldridge
Organized Play Manager

Linda Zayas-Palmer
Developer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Organized Play Pathfinder Second Edition Pathfinder Society
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***

I hope that 12 XP per level doesn't become unwieldy at higher tiers, but I am excited that quest rewards will be built in from the start.

Grand Lodge ****

Finegas wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:

I think this is going to put pressure on Con organizers to get reporting done more quickly. People will want their rewards. But maybe that's good, I think there's room for some technological improvement there. A Con organizer could set up an online form for GMs to report tables immediately for example, rather than resort to paper sheets and people writing illegible numbers. This doesn't require a dedicated application, just a well-designed form.

More ambitious would be printing a QR code on convention badges that can be scanned and autofilled as PFS-# into such a form with a smartphone. Given that PFS-#s have become 7-digit long, that might be an idea.

While a great idea the problem with this is some of us don't own phones or venues won't have internet access, the sagamore in GenCon being a big one.

I think it can be done without Internet. Scanning technology is pretty advanced and can be stored and then uploaded via a USB tether, storage transfer device, or the Internet. Plus the Internet in the Sag could be dealt with by simply equipping the HQ with Internet.

We can really get reporting moving along well with scanning but it would require some adjustments and changes to the way things are done now.

Shadow Lodge *****

Who purchases the scanning equipment? Who pays for the hotspot in the Sagamore?

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Manager

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Whisperer in Darkness wrote:

These data items are to be tracked on a character sheet for PFS2 (and SFS?).

My question is are they reported data items so they can be tracked per character online?
To reiterate they would be reported by Coordinators to the online play history. Currently date, event#, Player & GM PFS#, Char#, Faction code, & Prestige, and character death are reportable data items. This would add 6 items per character to report. XP & GP are currently assumed based on the game reported.

The reporting sheets are undergoing some changes, to accommodate the new items like flexible factions and infamy. Regarding more things to input - Infamy will be used rarely. AcP will be locked in as XP and GP are now. Reputation is a calculated value. Fame is replacing Prestige. So there really isn't much more an organizer/reporter needs to put intot he computer.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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Glen Parnell wrote:
why not let Downtime accumulate?

That’s not really how time works. It’s not like we can save the weekend to use at some later date.


So let's say, for the sake of argument, that I want to craft a Mithril Orc-Bonker. This Orc-Bonker, for the sake of argument, takes 10 days to craft.

If I complete a scenario and gain 4 days of downtime, presumably, I can spend 4 days crafting it, and then will need to spend the additional 6 at another time?

Could I set it aside for a few days of downtime while my character flips burgers (Profession (burgerflip)) at Mick D'onald's, then come back to it and spend more downtime on it when I feel like it?

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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Tineke Bolleman wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
will you be able to trade/give away the new stuff?
I'm sure you can trade the printed version.

I’m a bit less than “sure.” The tradeability of boons is what fuels the pirate market. With the ability of a player to buy from the entire menu it should significantly reduce the need to trade. It eliminates the current issue of earning a boon you’ll never use. We could make boons non-tradable and reduce even further the pirate market.

*

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Yes for _reporting_ I think all the values are reasonable and not a noticeable additional burden for non-Con settings. For Cons reporting high double digits of tables the additional values might add up (infamy and extra/bonus reputation for more than 1 faction).

However its the chronicles that I'm worried about. I really don't want to see more blocks to initial -- especially infamy that's practically never used. If Infamy is treated as a condition to be recorded/cleared and not as its own separate box to be initialed, it should be fine.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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Quote:
Reporting

IMO what would make reporting quicker and more reliable is if any GM could report their own event. Certainly they can do it when they create the event, but why limit it? All we really need is a search field on the event listing page to enter the event code. It could link you to the event listing and the <reporting> button could be made universally available to everyone. At that point GMs could report their own tables in real time. This would ensure they earn the AcP immediately and eliminate/reduce the chance of lost or misentered reporting data. If you don’t have a digital device or no service, the event’s HQ could still report for you. This would significantly reduce the load on HQ at major cons like Gen Con, Origins, PaizoCon, etc. Some will say they don’t have WiFi access in the Sag and that’s fine, HQ can be the backup, but there are plenty of people who do have access in the room and could report their own. If I were a GM, I would prefer this method as it means I can take ownership of my reporting and eliminate the chance the sheet is lost in a sea of thousands of papers or some person who is on their third slot of the day entering sheets phat-fingering the data or getting cross-eyed after having looked at a computer screen for 10+ hours.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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VixieMoondew wrote:
crafting

The problem is you’re speculating and asking questions about a process that has not been published yet. The OP team is not in a position to spoil 2E rules. Until the designers explain how crafting works, we cannot see how it will interact with downtime. The idea of partially completing an item and then finishing it later seems perfectly reasonable, but we simply do not have the rules to know if that’s how it works. I would not expect us to get any info on this until the designers release the crafting rules which could happen in a blog or we might have to wait until Gen Con when the CRB is published.

In any case, there was virtually no crafting in 1E/PFS so any expansion is better than nothing.

*

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Bob Jonquet wrote:
Quote:
Reporting
IMO what would make reporting quicker and more reliable is if any GM could report their own event. Certainly they can do it when they create the event, but why limit it? All we really need is a search field on the event listing page to enter the event code. It could link you to the event listing and the <reporting> button could be made universally available to everyone. At that point GMs could report their own tables in real time. This would ensure they earn the AcP immediately and eliminate/reduce the chance of lost or misentered reporting data. If you don’t have a digital device or no service, the event’s HQ could still report for you. This would significantly reduce the load on HQ at major cons like Gen Con, Origins, PaizoCon, etc. Some will say they don’t have WiFi access in the Sag and that’s fine, HQ can be the backup, but there are plenty of people who do have access in the room and could report their own. If I were a GM, I would prefer this method as it means I can take ownership of my reporting and eliminate the chance the sheet is lost in a sea of thousands of papers or some person who is on their third slot of the day entering sheets phat-fingering the data or getting cross-eyed after having looked at a computer screen for 10+ hours.

As a GM, I would love to be able to self-report at the larger cons.

Were I an organizers, I think I'd want some extra tools to be able to track which GMs had reported or had handed sheets to HQ. And the ability to automatically follow up with GMs who hadn't reported after a set time. Without those types of tools I fear the ability for the Con organizers to know when reporting is done, to direct players concerned with missing sheets, etc would be compromised.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

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Tineke Bolleman wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
will you be able to trade/give away the new stuff?
I'm sure you can trade the printed version.

I kinda hope, being able to donate or sell boons gets removed, after all with the new system everyone could earn everything, and I really like the aspirational aspect of that. That could motivate people to GM to get their precious ancestry significantly earlier.

Grand Lodge ****

You could have it where the GM reports at the major cons and then turns the sheet into HQ. The GM should take a picture of the sheet first. Then there's a paper trail for backup if something is disputed. That should cut down on the load for HQ.

A hotspot provided for by OP would almost certainly be worth it if you were to ask the HQ staff who have to spend X amount of hours inputting the data like they currently do.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

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I am kinda worried about the Factions at this point. I was hoping the Starfinder confusion would not be taking up space in the Guild Guide as it does in the space counterpart.

Will we still have Faction cards? My guess is that it is unlikely.
Will we have to waste fame on Faction boons? Likely outcome.
Are boons going to be slotted like it is in Starfinder? I hope not.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Xathos of Varisia wrote:


A hotspot provided for by OP would almost certainly be worth it if you were to ask the HQ staff who have to spend X amount of hours inputting the data like they currently do.

Honestly, I have yet to attend a big convention where the Internet was not terrible due to the vast number of cell phones active there.

** Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta

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Overall I like this but I have a few minor suggestions/questions if any of this is still "in process":

1) As someone else noted upthread, AcP is likely to be a confusing acronym. Same as Armor Check Penalty. Very close to Adventure Path. Very close to Animal Companion.

2) Similarly, it seems like you have just changed what used to be called Prestige to Fame. But of course we had Fame too in PFS 1. I anticipate so many unnecessary discussions with people making the transition from PFS 1 to 2 over this. Why not just give it an entirely new name? Acclaim? Notoriety? Celebrity? Rank?

3) I get the desire to change the XP system to make it more friendly for Quest play, but I think it's going to be much less newbie friendly. Everyone can easily get the idea that you play 3 times, get 3 xp, and go up a level. I think 12 xp/level is going to be more off-putting to the random newb who wanders into a game.

4) AcP Rewards system - unless I'm misunderstanding, it seems like all rewards will now be the player's choice. We acquire AcP through playing, GM-ing, and GM-ing at cons, and then decide how to spend them. While that of course will be very satisfying for those of us who have been hunting a particular option for a long time, I think it misses the role that surprise and random-ness play in the fun factor of playing. It's fun to sign up to GM for a con and know that you will get some cool reward but not know what it is. It's fun to roll a d20 at a table and know that you have a 10% chance of winning something (in a way that I expect it will be much less fun for people to simply know that when they accrue a certain number of points they can buy something with them). In short, this change seems to do away with an important role of the psychology of gaming: the uncertainty and randomness associated with rewards.

Scarab Sages ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Netherlands aka CptJames

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TOZ wrote:
Who purchases the scanning equipment? Who pays for the hotspot in the Sagamore?

There is an app (which admittedly I found out about today) called Microsoft Office Lens.

Microsoft Office Lens

You can take photos and convert them to PDFs and upload them to OneDrive on your phone. Or if you're offline? Perfect, save it to your gallery, then upload it later. Or send it to people who don't have phones?

Not sure if this would help people at all? Seems useful but no idea about viability for big cons?

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

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Abraham Z. wrote:

Overall I like this but I have a few minor suggestions/questions if any of this is still "in process":

1) As someone else noted upthread, AcP is likely to be a confusing acronym. Same as Armor Check Penalty. Very close to Adventure Path. Very close to Animal Companion.

2) Similarly, it seems like you have just changed what used to be called Prestige to Fame. But of course we had Fame too in PFS 1. I anticipate so many unnecessary discussions with people making the transition from PFS 1 to 2 over this. Why not just give it an entirely new name? Acclaim? Notoriety? Celebrity? Rank?

3) I get the desire to change the XP system to make it more friendly for Quest play, but I think it's going to be much less newbie friendly. Everyone can easily get the idea that you play 3 times, get 3 xp, and go up a level. I think 12 xp/level is going to be more off-putting to the random newb who wanders into a game.

4) AcP Rewards system - unless I'm misunderstanding, it seems like all rewards will now be the player's choice. We acquire AcP through playing, GM-ing, and GM-ing at cons, and then decide how to spend them. While that of course will be very satisfying for those of us who have been hunting a particular option for a long time, I think it misses the role that surprise and random-ness play in the fun factor of playing. It's fun to sign up to GM for a con and know that you will get some cool reward but not know what it is. It's fun to roll a d20 at a table and know that you have a 10% chance of winning something (in a way that I expect it will be much less fun for people to simply know that when they accrue a certain number of points they can buy something with them). In short, this change seems to do away with an important role of the psychology of gaming: the uncertainty and randomness associated with rewards.

1. How about Org Play points OPP?

2. Those of us who run SFS are already using to name Fame for this kind of stuff, so just keeping the name is actually less confusing for those of us who plan to do both.
3. I think the sales pitch slightly changes, instead of "You level up every 3 scenarios, it becomes you level up after about 12 hours of active play".
4. Sorry, but personally (and from what I have seen in other regions, people really dislike the random nature of player rewards.
Actually allowing players to select the specific boon they really want seems to be the better call.

I guess it's kinda like the difference between buying boosters and buying singles in a CCG, and haven't bought a booster in years but started buying singles again.

Shadow Lodge *****

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James Hargrave wrote:
Not sure if this would help people at all? Seems useful but no idea about viability for big cons?

Thanks, I'll look at it!

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Tineke Bolleman wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
will you be able to trade/give away the new stuff?
I'm sure you can trade the printed version.
I’m a bit less than “sure.” The tradeability of boons is what fuels the pirate market. With the ability of a player to buy from the entire menu it should significantly reduce the need to trade. It eliminates the current issue of earning a boon you’ll never use. We could make boons non-tradable and reduce even further the pirate market.

As someone who gives away most of my tradeable boons, I really like the freedom to give boons away to newbie, or a child or to a funny player or a helpful volunteer. I really hope that there are some boons we can gift or trade away.

Hmm

Wayfinders ***** ⦵⦵

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Hillis Mallory III wrote:

I am kinda worried about the Factions at this point. I was hoping the Starfinder confusion would not be taking up space in the Guild Guide as it does in the space counterpart.

Will we still have Faction cards? My guess is that it is unlikely.
Will we have to waste fame on Faction boons? Likely outcome.
Are boons going to be slotted like it is in Starfinder? I hope not.

That's an interesting perspective, because I love the options that faction boons give in Starfinder! It's not a waste to spend a little fame on a cool option for your character, especially the Starship boons. I also love the boon slotting system. It takes two minutes at the table, because most people have default boons that they slot, with a few options for special occasions.

Hmm

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

1. How about Org Play points OPP?

2. Those of us who run SFS are already using to name Fame for this kind of stuff, so just keeping the name is actually less confusing for those of us who plan to do both.
3. I think the sales pitch slightly changes, instead of "You level up every 3 scenarios, it becomes you level up after about 12 hours of active play".

I vastly prefer OPP and the OPPortunities it offers! Plus one to everything that Sebastian said here!


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I'm down with OPP!

The Exchange ***

Will we have a Core Campaign and a Regular Campaign, like PFS1?

*

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"I'm down with OPP*!"

*Organized Play Points!

That aside, giving exp per hour(s) played also gives a great deal more flexibility to GMs in assigning experience to their players at scenario wrap-up, say if someone comes in late or has to leave early -- folks still get to play! And it's not half-credit/third-credit/nada

Sovereign Court **** ⦵⦵⦵⦵

Exp per hour also matches the new Adventurer's League reward scheme.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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Xathos of Varisia wrote:
The GM should take a picture of the sheet first

This is absolutely essential to making sure your GM history is accurately reported. I’ve even considered starting to take a picture of the reporting sheet for any table I play at as well. If a problem arises I will have complete data to provide to my local VC to investigate and fix any discrepancy.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Honestly, I have yet to attend a big convention where the Internet was not terrible due to the vast number of cell phones active there.

It’s very hit or miss. I rarely have any problem with cell access so even if the site has no WiFi in its convention space, I can activate the hot spot on my cell. It depends a lot on the technical infrastructure of both the venue and the city you’re in

Sovereign Court **** ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta aka The Masked Ferret

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Xathos of Varisia wrote:
The GM should take a picture of the sheet first
This is absolutely essential to making sure your GM history is accurately reported. I’ve even considered starting to take a picture of the reporting sheet for any table I play at as well. If a problem arises I will have complete data to provide to my local VC to investigate and fix any discrepancy.

This is a great idea!

Scarab Sages ****

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I’m very happy to hear about the new XP system and the continued good news about quests.

I’ll give all of the other systems a chance. Lots of potential there.

I’ll repeat my concern about infamy. If GMs are going to be given the leeway to assign infamy that is not specified in a scenario and not an obviously evil act, please, please write a blog or include a section in the guide or do something to provide guidance on what appropriate situations to earn infamy look like, and what they don’t look like.

* ⦵⦵

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

In addition to the many sessions that go unreported due to human error, have had to go back and rereport sessions that deleted themselves from the Paizo site. I have a hard time trusting that a resource run through tracking the session reports will work out well.

Scarab Sages ***** Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Tineke Bolleman wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
will you be able to trade/give away the new stuff?
I'm sure you can trade the printed version.
I’m a bit less than “sure.” The tradeability of boons is what fuels the pirate market. With the ability of a player to buy from the entire menu it should significantly reduce the need to trade. It eliminates the current issue of earning a boon you’ll never use. We could make boons non-tradable and reduce even further the pirate market.

That would only work if boons never rotate out. If I earn Tengu ancestry in one year, and it rotates out, a newer player wont be able to get it. Having spend my points, I cant get a new ancestry in the forseeable future. So if a new ancestry opens up, say for Ratfolk, I would like to trade my Tengu with a Ratfolk with a new player that would like the Tengu better, but can no longer get it. Either way, we both (have) spend out points.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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I fully expect that no options will be retired once available.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Can I earn AcP for adventures I run for PFS1 or SFS, or do they only apply to PFS2 adventures?

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville aka thaX

Charli Poshkettle wrote:
Hillis Mallory III wrote:

I am kinda worried about the Factions at this point. I was hoping the Starfinder confusion would not be taking up space in the Guild Guide as it does in the space counterpart.

Will we still have Faction cards? My guess is that it is unlikely.
Will we have to waste fame on Faction boons? Likely outcome.
Are boons going to be slotted like it is in Starfinder? I hope not.

That's an interesting perspective, because I love the options that faction boons give in Starfinder! It's not a waste to spend a little fame on a cool option for your character, especially the Starship boons. I also love the boon slotting system. It takes two minutes at the table, because most people have default boons that they slot, with a few options for special occasions.

Hmm

It is confusing and needs some organization by the player. I have my boons written on index cards to look through and slot, others have created a chart piece that slides boon cards into the slots.

If a specific PFS character sheet can have a boon section that has the page divided into thirds, for three boons per sheet, and have them be able to fill in from the chronicles and boons from that character, it would make it easier to conform to the slotting aspect of this.

I also don't get how the character would split his allegiances between multple factions and have a few reputations splattered among other Factions that really have no use for the character. I hope this is clarified in PFS if it is the same way.

Paizo Employee Customer Service Representative

Removed post and reply to reduce off topic content.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Misroi wrote:
Can I earn AcP for adventures I run for PFS1 or SFS, or do they only apply to PFS2 adventures?

"At this time, we are only planning AcP for Pathfinder Society and will provide physical boons for Starfinder Society and Pathfinder Adventure Card Society. If the AcP system works well, we will look at how we could incorporate it into the other Paizo organized play programs."

To further clarify, the "Pathfinder Society" reference in this quote from the blog is specific to the new second edition campaign. You will not be able to earn AcP by playing games in the first edition campaign.

***** ⦵⦵

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Hillis Mallory III wrote:


It is confusing and needs some organization by the player.

I think if we can expect players to have a head slot a headband slot a chest slot a shoulders slot a waist slot and a body slot then a card holder or notation taking up less space than your 1st level spell slots is a reasonable amount of confusion for the benefit of getting usable boons.

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Lead Developer

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A few quick responses:

Renaming Achievement Points: The team's open to considering other names or abbreviations for Achievement Points. In the past few hours we've batted around PAcP (Pathfinder Achievement Points), which would leave room for the hypothetical addition of Starfinder Achievement Points and/or Card Achievement Points in the future. A quick google search of "OPP" and reviewing the first hits is all we needed to discard that abbreviation as an option.

1 Level = XX Hours of Play: Upon discussing this, we've identified too many issues to consider it for Pathfinder Society. Whether one's finishing a scenario early (and earning fewer XP), deliberately taking longer (and gaining more XP), or negotiating the different slot lengths at different venues and conventions (and the apparent inequality of level gain that would result), there are serious complications that make this not feasible—particularly for those players showing up to a multi-day event and failing to earn enough XP to reach the right level for a later slot's higher-tier game. Such an hourly system could incorporate minimums and maximums, but eve then I don't believe we're served well by this unpredictability.

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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-- Googles 'OPP' on non-work mobile device --

Dang. Yep, it's out.

OTHER NAMING OPTIONS

How about POPP? Pathfinder OrgPlay Points? This time I googled it. It could also be shortened to POP.

(The only downside would be that Starfinder OrgPlay Points would be STOPP, which I do not like at all.)

Otherwise we could have POPP be for Paizo Org Play Points and cover all systems, which I like a lot. That way GM volunteering could be rewarded no matter what system a convention assigns a GM to cover.

Sovereign Court **** ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta aka The Masked Ferret

Also googles OPP on phone, not work computer
Yeah, out.

1 Level = XX Hours of Play: I am glad that we are not going that way. It is roughly 12 hours of play per level ( 1 XP per hour), but that is a general guideline. Different tables play the same adventure in widely varying amounts of time.

Renaming Achievement Points: We could consider something like Player Experience Points or Community Experience Points?

Dark Archive ***** ⦵⦵⦵⦵

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

How about Player Points (since GMs are players as well)? Then would could, in the short term, use PPP (Pathfinder Player Points) and SPP (Starfinder Player Points).

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Community Points (CP)?

Dark Archive **** Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Honestly, I have yet to attend a big convention where the Internet was not terrible due to the vast number of cell phones active there.

Absolutely this. It's often not even something you can know if it will be okay or not as a con organiser until the event is underway and it's too late to do much, nor anything that you can typically do much about anyways from the perspective of providing access to everyone there.

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Community Points (CP)?

I like CP, provided we never have PCP! These acronyms can be dangerous!

**

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Community Points (CP)?
I like CP, provided we never have PCP! These acronyms can be dangerous!

Hey! I have proudly been many children's PCP. Acronymns can mean more than one thing. :)

**

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Glen Parnell wrote:

Also googles OPP on phone, not work computer

Yeah, out.

1 Level = XX Hours of Play: I am glad that we are not going that way. It is roughly 12 hours of play per level ( 1 XP per hour), but that is a general guideline. Different tables play the same adventure in widely varying amounts of time.

Renaming Achievement Points: We could consider something like Player Experience Points or Community Experience Points?

I don't know how 'this xp scheme roughly approximating 1 xp per hour of play' became 1 xp per hour of play in readers' minds. Boy! In PbP I'd have Seekers in one scenario! ;)


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“CP” is also out for reasons I don’t want people to Google, but uh. Trust me.

I like “PEP.” Put a little PEP in your step! Or POP. Might get confusing in regions where they mispronounce “soda” though, given the tendency to snack at the table.

*****

lol... the obvious is "GMP"
but I can see the public relations in achieving something. You could just call it reward points, award points, bounty, dividend, premium... points... Tips could be interesting.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

John Compton wrote:

A few quick responses:

Renaming Achievement Points: The team's open to considering other names or abbreviations for Achievement Points. In the past few hours we've batted around PAcP (Pathfinder Achievement Points), which would leave room for the hypothetical addition of Starfinder Achievement Points and/or Card Achievement Points in the future. A quick google search of "OPP" and reviewing the first hits is all we needed to discard that abbreviation as an option.

1 Level = XX Hours of Play: Upon discussing this, we've identified too many issues to consider it for Pathfinder Society. Whether one's finishing a scenario early (and earning fewer XP), deliberately taking longer (and gaining more XP), or negotiating the different slot lengths at different venues and conventions (and the apparent inequality of level gain that would result), there are serious complications that make this not feasible—particularly for those players showing up to a multi-day event and failing to earn enough XP to reach the right level for a later slot's higher-tier game. Such an hourly system could incorporate minimums and maximums, but eve then I don't believe we're served well by this unpredictability.

Yeah definitely did not google that abbreviation ^^

Regarding the 1 Level X hours, I very much agree that it should be based on the scenario and the challenges the players get to overcome. I only mentioned 12 hours for a level up as a general guideline to help new players get an expectation of how long they might have to play - since many are not used to the typical scenario length.

Back to the points, I am kinda hoping that a system-agnostic name gets chosen since I also kinda hope that we can have just one pool of points for all the various campaigns if they choose to also use this system. For organizers, it is just soo much easier if GMs get the rewards they want (points) no matter what we need them to run.

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