Pathfinder Society Second Edition Preview: Earned Benefits

Wednesday, April 24, 2019

When we announced Pathfinder Second Edition, the organized play team began gathering feedback from our player base and volunteer organizers as to what they liked about Pathfinder Society and what they would like carried over to Second Edition campaign. We continued this outreach in person and across a variety of digital platforms and the end of 2018 saw several rounds of blog posts collated from forum threads and surveys associated with the blog topics.

Your feedback and input were leading factors as we assessed what worked well that we wanted to keep, and how to incorporate your choices for a player-influenced campaign. Throughout our conversations, we regularly referred back to your responses to ensure that new rules addressed the community's concerns wherever possible. The process has taken some time, and more than a year has passed between the new edition's announcement and today's blog. Now that the Core Rulebook is at the printer, we can start announcing what Pathfinder Society will look like when it launches at Gen Con 2019.

It's worth noting that some of these decisions were contentious, often including survey data with mixed results that pushed us to deliberate how best to deliver a quality organized play experience while doing what we can to address opposing concerns. That said, these include changes. It's our goal that these changes strengthen the new campaign while maintaining the spirit of the Pathfinder Society, and we ask that you see them in action before judging their ultimate merit. We'll be listening especially closely for feedback from players and volunteers alike in the campaign's early months, and if something isn't working correctly, we'll be looking for ways to adjust and fine tune.

Also, there's far more for us to announce that can be reasonably fit in a single blog, so we'll be posting more updates over the next several months. You'll see a variety of organized play team members introducing organized play nuances of character building, running adventures, and factions. And even if a team member doesn't appear as a blog's author, know what we've all had a hand in creating these new policies and features. All told, a lot is coming between now and Gen Con.

For this week, we want to focus on what you earn—both as a player and as a PC.

The Basics

Let's introduce some terms, many familiar and a few new or slightly changed. In the First Edition campaign, you had four values that you might track: Experience Points (XP), Gold Pieces (GP), Fame, and Prestige Points (PP). In Starfinder Society, we renamed a few of these, but mostly just added a fifth value: Infamy. In Pathfinder Society's second edition campaign, there's a little more to track, but you'll see a lot you recognize from Starfinder Society in particular.

  • Experience Points (XP): These track a character's level.
  • Infamy: This tracks how notorious a PC is for having performed evil or highly disreputable actions. Most PCs are unlikely to earn this.
  • Reputation: This tracks how much influence a PC has in a faction.
  • Achievement Points (AcP): These are a player-based currency earned by playing and GMing Pathfinder Society games. These are used to access special character options and to gain special benefits tied to the campaign's rules.
  • Downtime: At the end of each adventure, a PC earns Downtime measured in days (3 days per 1 XP) that should be spent by the start of the next adventure. Downtime allows a PC to earn additional money through a profession, craft gear, retrain character options, and more.
  • Fame: This represents the PC's social capital, which they can spend on purchasing boons and services.
  • Gold Pieces (GP): These represent the PC's wealth, used to buy gear and services.

Seven fields are a decent amount to manage. Fortunately, three of these are tracking numbers (XP, Infamy, and Reputation) that will go up slowly over time. Three of these are currencies (Downtime, Fame, and GP) that your character uses to acquire gear and other edges. And one is a currency for you as a player.

We imagine you have questions! Let's look at these more closely.

Experience Points (XP)

When working out the XP system for Second Edition, we looked at several different models, including both the model that Pathfinder Society currently uses (3 XP = 1 Level) and a true XP system (such as how the Core Rulebook requires 1,000 XP to gain a level). In the end, we chose a system where there are 12 XP within each level. A scenario grants 4 XP, while a quest gives 1 XP. The chapters of longer, sanctioned adventures grant the full 12 XP needed to gain a level. One way to think about it is that each XP represents roughly 1 hour of play.

You may have seen us talking about quests in previous blogs, but in case you haven't, we're going to be releasing more of them going forward. We're adding one quest to each month's releases starting with the launch of the Second Edition campaign, in addition to two Pathfinder Society scenarios. Having more quests allows us to explore more locations and stories, and it gives more content for times and places where people can't sit down to play for hours at a time.

However, quests in First Edition were a little challenging to handle because there were two forms those quests took: either a bundle of 4–6 quests that required players to play the whole series to earn the full rewards, or stand-alone quests that granted no XP, GP, or Fame. In Second Edition, we're building the campaign so that quests are a rewards-granting entity from the very beginning, even for stand-alone quests. With each being worth 1 XP, it should be easier to track their rewards—including no need for fractional XP.

There's one other matter to discuss about Fractional XP: the Slow Advancement Track. The slow track is an option where players can choose at the beginning of an adventure to earn fewer rewards to slow their character's advancement. We will be retaining slow track in Second Edition. A slow track scenario will grant 2 XP. The only players who will see fractional XP are those who choose to use slow advancement track while playing a quest, earning 1/2 XP per quest.

Infamy

Oh, but we love Infamy. In the First Edition campaign, performing evil deeds could lead to a warning or a PC's possible expulsion from the campaign (barring atonement), but it was difficult to track. Instituting a quantitative tracking system mid-campaign proved surprisingly tricky, so when we were creating Starfinder Society, we built in Infamy from the beginning.

The concept's reasonably straightforward. When your PC does something utterly notorious, uncaring, or outright evil, they can earn a point of Infamy (many scenarios also include special notes about a particular circumstance that might grant Infamy). Before you follow through, the GM's supposed to warn you about the likely consequences, and it's your call whether to do it anyway. Infamy gets tracked between adventures, and if you end an adventure with 3 or more Infamy, the Society determines your PC is too significant a threat to the Society's reputation and interests to keep around; that PC's removed from play. You can spend a notable amount of Fame to remove Infamy, and each point of Infamy you have makes it a little harder to purchase gear. From what we've seen and heard in Starfinder Society is that Infamy gain is relatively rare, and it's pretty easy to predict and avoid.

Expect to see Infamy largely unchanged in the upcoming Pathfinder Society campaign.

Reputation and Fame

We're also pretty happy with how factions operate in Starfinder Society, and this model is strongly inspiring the Second Edition campaign. To catch you up to speed, Starfinder Society allows each PC to represent numerous factions, and each faction represents less an outside interest and more of a subculture within the Society with unique goals. As you adventure, you can choose to focus on one faction or more evenly spread out your influence in each one (i.e., Reputation). The higher your Reputation with a faction, the more faction-oriented goodies you can access. So in practice, Reputation is like XP for a faction. You earn it slowly, and it only goes up over time.

Essentially, fame is what we know as Prestige Points in Pathfinder Society's first edition. You can spend Fame to purchase various services, such as securing spellcasting and paying off any Infamy. It's also used to buy many of those faction-oriented benefits mentioned above.

Downtime

Pathfinder Society and Starfinder Society both have a basic Downtime mechanic already, for which the default benefit is the Day Job check—roll a skill check and earn some extract gold or credits. However, Downtime's also very direct, with each PC earning a unit of Downtime with no fractions or the like. There's some room for improvement.

Second Edition's core rules have Downtime mechanics built into the game, which makes it pretty darn easy for the Pathfinder Society experience to match how everyone else is playing the game. Downtime's used for a variety of tasks, from Earn Income to make some money, to Crafting to make your own gear (at a nicely balanced discount), to retraining class features, to any number of special outlets for Downtime that adventures might open up.

In the Second Edition campaign, expect to see Downtime and earn it after each adventure. The number of days of Downtime earned depend on the XP you earned, so barring any custom “gain bonus Downtime” rewards we might include in adventures, you can predict about how much you'll make at each level. Unlike other resources, you can't stockpile Downtime; you'll get some Downtime at the end of the adventure, and it's up to you to use it before the next adventure.

Gold Pieces (GP)

At face value, there might not seem to be anything to say here. Gold—and silver at earlier levels—lets you buy gear. You might have heard about Pathfinder Section Edition using a rarity system, though, so there's a little more involved when it comes to acquiring Uncommon or Rare equipment than throwing a bag of coins at the problem. For now, know that we're addressing rarities in a future blog, and every week we explore additional possibilities for opening up a portion of the Uncommon options in fun and accessible ways.

Achievement Points (AcP)

Okay, so gold, Downtime, Fame. These are things our organized play community has handled in some form or another before. Achievement Points may be more familiar than you think, but it's easy to overlook because their predecessor (Playtest Points) hasn't entirely wrapped up yet.

At their core, Achievement Points are about equality. As best I recall, Paizo introduced convention boons at Gen Con 2011, giving attendees a chance to win the first of many much-desired race boons. It took a little while, but slowly race boons became fairly common convention rewards beyond Gen Con, and they've been a staple of incentivizing convention play and celebrating attendees at Paizo-sponsored events since. Ah, but for as long as there have been convention boons, there have been concerns about those who can't make it to conventions (or in the case of some rarer rewards, those who can't make it to the “right” conventions). For every valid concern about missing content by not reaching conventions, there's an equally valid concern as to how the program can help keep the convention scene vibrant without great GM rewards (i.e., “If not race boons, then what?”).

Our answer is Achievement Points. Whenever you participate in—and report—a Pathfinder Society adventure, you earn Achievement Points. You'll receive a base amount for playing, earn more for GMing, and even more for GMing at Paizo-sponsored conventions like PaizoCon and Gen Con. No matter where you are or how you play, you'll be earning Achievement Points. We haven't finalized the exact numbers, as we are looking at how the Regional Support Program and Event Support for conventions interact and how we can incorporate both into the Achievement Point system. The chart of what activity earns what is one of those announcements for future blogs.

What does one do with these AcP (we're using that abbreviation to not confuse everyone about Adventure Paths)? You can redeem them on the Paizo website for different rewards that you might typically associate with convention boons or GM boons. No doubt that will include access to uncommon ancestries from upcoming products, but it could also include somewhat “meta” benefits like opening up replay options, providing a more comprehensive character rebuild, or starting a new PC at a higher level. Purchase the boon, print off a copy, and keep it with that PC. Or go digital and keep track of your AcP purchases on your My Organized Play page at Paizo.com The system we've requested and are testing auto-fills your organized play number and other key fields, limiting the potential to print off a hundred copies for all of your friends.

All told, it means that someone who plays a lot but never GMs could still save up to grab the reward of their choice, and someone who passionately GMs at numerous shows each year can accumulate and spend AcP more quickly. But everyone has access to the same rewards, with a few exceptions. We expect that there will be occasional limited-access options (like the charity boons Paizo's created for the past several years) but anticipate there to be far less Gen Con-exclusives. We also expect we'll shake up some of the options that AcP can access, but there will be an announcement period so participants can make the most informed decisions for their characters.

At this time, we are only planning AcP for Pathfinder Society and will provide physical boons for Starfinder Society and Pathfinder Adventure Card Society. If the AcP system works well, we will look at how we could incorporate it into the other Paizo organized play programs.

In Review

For someone familiar with our other organized play programs, there are some changes to the process. For someone new to Paizo organized play programs, it can be a lot to digest. We revisited what many of these scores to explain them more simply. Here's the TL,DR:

  • Experience Points (XP): This tells me my character level.
  • Infamy: This is rare and tracks how much of a jerk my PC has been.
  • Reputation: This is how much a faction likes me.
  • Achievement Points (AcP): I spend these on any of my PCs to access unusual character options and opportunities.
  • Downtime: This is my character's free time for training, earning money, or making things.
  • Fame: I spend this on buying boons and favors.
  • Gold Pieces(GP): I spend this on gear and services.

John Compton
Organized Play Lead Developer

Tonya Woldridge
Organized Play Manager

Linda Zayas-Palmer
Developer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Organized Play Pathfinder Second Edition Pathfinder Society
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Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Huzzah!

Dark Archive **** Venture-Agent, Finland—Turku aka Tomppa

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Super nice!

I like the sound of AcP especially!

Silver Crusade ***

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Wow, Just WOW. Nice changes and influences from Starfinder Society. And the thought of everyone being able to get usually Con-only boons is nice. Seems like it is off the the right track.

My biggest question is on crafting, how will it work? Is it based on days to make depending on the higher level of item? And if that is the case, that means that people might have to play APs to get those discounted better items, if I am correct. Just a little guessing before the book comes out in August.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka pauljathome

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Those all sound like pretty good ideas, actually. Although, as always, the devil is in the details :-)

But this does make a very good first step

Sovereign Court **** ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta aka The Masked Ferret

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sounds great!

Any thoughts on porting some of this back to Starfinder Society?

Starfinder Society Developer

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Glen Parnell wrote:

Sounds great!

Any thoughts on porting some of this back to Starfinder Society?

I sit in these meetings. I like things and like taking things that other people successfully use. :)

Sovereign Court **** ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta aka The Masked Ferret

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thurston Hillman wrote:
Glen Parnell wrote:

Sounds great!

Any thoughts on porting some of this back to Starfinder Society?

I sit in these meetings. I like things and like taking things that other people successfully use. :)

Excellent! ;)

Liberty's Edge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
0riklad wrote:
My biggest question is on crafting, how will it work? Is it based on days to make depending on the higher level of item? And if that is the case, that means that people might have to play APs to get those discounted better items, if I am correct. Just a little guessing before the book comes out in August.

While we're still just guessing until the final game is released, in the playtest no crafting item required more than 4 days to make - but also did not give any discount for doing so. Extra Downtime days spent on the craft are what give the discount, which is probably why they are going for a use-or-lose system, so as to keep the amount of Downtime you can dedicate to a crafting project limited.

*

I'm digging these ideas. Thanks, team!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

AcP sounds like it will address my main beef with 1E PFS: Not working from the same character creation rules as other players at the table.

Silver Crusade ***

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Bruno, a beautiful and handsome tetori monk, will hug you for 1 Achievement Point.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Captain, New Zealand—Auckland

Achievement Points sound like a fantastically flexible mechanism, and I like the digital integration too

Silver Crusade **

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Interesting. I like a lot of this, but it also sounds like a lot to keep track of. Especially when you break out Reputation into the however many factions, we'll have >10 tracking numbers for society play, which makes me worry a little bit. Will have to see it in action.

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What I'm not seeing in this blog--although technically, you did say PC and "player"-- is whether we're still earing GM chronicles for scenarios run.

Starting a higher level character is mentioned as a function of Achievement Points. Are GM chronicles still going to be the way of things or are Achievement Points replacing that mechanism (too)?

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Lead Developer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Shisumo wrote:
0riklad wrote:
My biggest question is on crafting, how will it work? Is it based on days to make depending on the higher level of item? And if that is the case, that means that people might have to play APs to get those discounted better items, if I am correct. Just a little guessing before the book comes out in August.
While we're still just guessing until the final game is released, in the playtest no crafting item required more than 4 days to make - but also did not give any discount for doing so. Extra Downtime days spent on the craft are what give the discount, which is probably why they are going for a use-or-lose system, so as to keep the amount of Downtime you can dedicate to a crafting project limited.

The final version of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook has lots of really great developments, and there are some adjustments to how crafting works that we feel should also work nicely in organized play. However, I don't want to get into details on exactly what crafting looks like just yet because it's not our team's secret to spill.

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Lead Developer

13 people marked this as a favorite.
Blake's Tiger wrote:

What I'm not seeing in this blog--although technically, you did say PC and "player"-- is whether we're still earing GM chronicles for scenarios run.

Starting a higher level character is mentioned as a function of Achievement Points. Are GM chronicles still going to be the way of things or are Achievement Points replacing that mechanism (too)?

Although I don't believe we've discussed GM Chronicle sheets explicitly in our meetings, it's because we have never considered not providing GMs the adventure's Chronicle sheet for running the game. Fear not.

Liberty's Edge *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am in love with all of this.

Grand Lodge ****

AcP looks good. I am hoping the crafting system will not result in a gear driven system like PF1 is.

May need to keep offering special Gen Con boons to attract GMs. Those incentives exist for a reason.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

This looks fantastic all around. Hopefully I can get back into the swing of organized play someday. ^_^


Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is fantastic, just what I was hoping for on all of this stuff.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As someone whose wife wants more than anything in Pathfinder is to play a Catfolk, the switch to AcP is very, very intriguing.

It'll be a while before we see Catfolk, I'm sure, but this lines up the possibility!

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Joe M. wrote:
Interesting. I like a lot of this, but it also sounds like a lot to keep track of. Especially when you break out Reputation into the however many factions, we'll have >10 tracking numbers for society play, which makes me worry a little bit. Will have to see it in action.

I don't mind it personally because of the way I track my characters, but SFS is the example, and you're not wrong about the reputation tracking. It can get a little crazy depending on what scenarios you play, and you can bring more crazy to it yourself depending on how you play.

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

Will Playtest points convert into AcP?

Hmm

Lantern Lodge

"Most PCs are unlikely to earn this." on purpose.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Xathos of Varisia wrote:

AcP looks good. I am hoping the crafting system will not result in a gear driven system like PF1 is.

May need to keep offering special Gen Con boons to attract GMs. Those incentives exist for a reason.

At this point in time we are not looking at offering special con-specific boons, as GMing at e.g. GenCon will earn you a multiplier of increased Achievement Points that can be redeemed towards anything within the AcP catalogue.

In discussing the numbers earlier, we're currently looking at a point distribution that would ensure a GenCon GM who worked enough slots that they would have previously qualified for a PF1 race boon would still walk away from the event with enough points earned to purchase an uncommon ancestry, or a number of lower cost AcP rewards. There will still be equivalent rewards for these GMs (in some ways superior for GMs who are less incentivized by uncommon ancestry rewards but would love to e.g. purchase a character at a higher starting level to apply their GM Chronicles to so they can jump into a particular Tier of play with a new class or set of options), those rewards just won't require us to gate away a subset of our products and make them inaccessible to gamers who would otherwise not have reasonable accessibility to one of these events.

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

Will Playtest points convert into AcP?

Hmm

No. Unless something significant changes, these will be two separate pools of points with two separate catalogues of rewards (though there may be some overlap between the two catalogues).

The Exchange *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

TWO SEPARATE CATALOGUES OF REWARDS?!!!

WOW!

That sounds awesome! So I get to spend my play test points on my first character/s and THEN I get AcPs with a MULTIPLIER for GMing at GENCON?!!

AWESOME!!!!

*****

These data items are to be tracked on a character sheet for PFS2 (and SFS?).
My question is are they reported data items so they can be tracked per character online?
To reiterate they would be reported by Coordinators to the online play history. Currently date, event#, Player & GM PFS#, Char#, Faction code, & Prestige, and character death are reportable data items. This would add 6 items per character to report. XP & GP are currently assumed based on the game reported.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

2 people marked this as a favorite.

AcP would have to be tracked online so the system would know how much you have to spend when you try to “buy” rewards.

*

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Blogpost wrote:
At this time, we are only planning AcP for Pathfinder Society and will provide physical boons for Starfinder Society and Pathfinder Adventure Card Society. If the AcP system works well, we will look at how we could incorporate it into the other Paizo organized play programs.
Michael Sayre wrote:
At this point in time we are not looking at offering special con-specific boons, as GMing at e.g. GenCon will earn you a multiplier of increased Achievement Points that can be redeemed towards anything within the AcP catalogue.

So, is it fair to conclude from those bits that a GM running 3 blocks at GenCon (which qualifies for the In-Game Reward volunteer incentive, per the Organized Play Foundation website) would be able to choose an SFS boon or PACS boon, because those will still exist, *and* if they are running new PFS, they will be earning AcP?

**

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:
AcP would have to be tracked online so the system would know how much you have to spend when you try to “buy” rewards.

Online is ideal.

An issue with this is reporting/reporter delay and error. I walked into the Sag on Wednesday of GenCon 50 and could have played a cool new catfolk character on my first open block to play. GenCon 2017 took 10 months to report, 2018 took 6 months to report. Ideally, not as long as 2017, but we will have to wait some period of time longer than the con to make use of our GMing rewards.

A new reality to get used to, I guess.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Volunteering for three blocks will generally earn you the choice of one of the three designated “boons,” one from PFS, one from SFS, and one from ACS. Personally I do t care which one you choose and whether or not it matches what you are actually running, especially since you may prefer say PFS, but we’re selected to run SFS. With us moving to a digital rewards program, I would expect it’ll be your choice of an ACS boon, SFS boon, or an equivalent amount of AcP for PFS2.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am really looking forward to earning my first points, personally, I like a challenge so earning expensive rewards should be fun, though I really love that any interaction with the campaign gives points.

Unifying the incentives programmes should also help us to motivate GMs, and even if the current offerings are not too attractive, being able to accumulate points might come in handy at a later date. (Personally, I mostly play CRB races, so many race boons are not all that attractive to me).
Hopefully with this new system, ever GM that takes the time to GM at his FLGS, will feel rewarded for his dedication with plenty of points to spend as he sees fit - instead of earning a specific race boon that might or might not be a great fit.

***** ⦵⦵

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will you be able to trade/give away the new stuff?

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

So this system for GM convention reward will start this GenCon?

Sovereign Court ****

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1) I like the new breakdown for XP, and the idea of individual quests being released, makes me wonder if we'll have less low tier scenarios because of it?

2) Infamy will be a nice way to track bad behavior and has ways of "buying out" if you do something and regret it. Will it be treated by individual rather than group, if there are options given to the party?

3) Modular faction support for PCs like starfinder is nice to see, as sometimes your character changes as they progress and you align with another faction, or alleviates not wanting to play a scenario because its faction aligned and you don't have on in tier. Hopefully there will be a digital tool to help us track this, please?

4) AcP is interesting as it will allow non-gms access to "traditionally" GM boons (races foremost) and open up GMs to getting boons outside usual one. The different point generation from playing, GM, Paizo-sponsored events provides incentive to GM/Con going as well.

5) Downtime is interesting.... not sure how the crafting is being handled so can't say too much yet, I'll have to see if its locked behind feat chains or other requirements, and how it balances vs non-crafting.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau aka Arnim Thayer

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At first glance, my concerns would be that there is now a LOT for GMs to report/track. I’m assuming the Reporting Sheets will change to reflect the need for those variables that need reported on the Paizo website. The idea that these will actually be tracked by the website alleviates me of some of that concern, especially now that the website seems fairly stable again.

The only other point of concern I have then is one that I’ve expressed frequently of late: the need for scenarios to be able to run in a 4-hour window (as opposed to the 4 1/2-5 hour expected window that some run currently). A majority of conventions aim for a much tighter time slot than GenCon and PazioCon, with the 4-hour slot being almost standard. And while plenty of scenarios have “optional encounters” that can be skipped, my thoughts on this are, “why bother developing and including those encounters if they have no impact on the story?” I know excising optional encounters means looking at changing both the encounter/CR formula and the rewards per encounter formula. I’m hoping that the developers take these concerns into account when building the PFS 2E scenarios.

What do others think? Are these valid concerns for other GMs? I know allowable play-time varies in different regions, so I’m not trying to speak for everyone else.

*****

Will it be okay to have a high Infamy? Obviously scenarios will have to account for that but rewards shouldn't be affected. I mean there's the expectation that the PC has had some issues but they still may be highly effective, just not diplomatic or maybe cooperative.

Sovereign Court **** ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta aka The Masked Ferret

One corner case I can think of - if you get 1/2 an XP from slow tracking a quest, does that mean you can spend 1/2 a day of downtime? If so, will downtime be able to account for only spending a 1/2 day?

Another question - why not let Downtime accumulate? Or, maybe make a boon that will allow for downtime accumulation?

**

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Very happy with everything listed aside from adopting Infamy from Starfinder. I find it hasn't been used often enough as an explicit callout to warrant it. I've seen some of the fan/community suggested modified chronicle sheets that try to squeeze in an Initial/mod/final infamy and think its taking up a lot of space for something that's almost never used. And just adds more time/initialing to the GM process of filling out a chornicle.

Also in terms of chronicles I hope the PFS2 systme for recording/tracking multiple faction reputation is better. As several threads have said, almost no one does it the way the guide says and at least 3 different systems are commonly seen.

Grand Lodge ****

Bob Jonquet wrote:
AcP would have to be tracked online so the system would know how much you have to spend when you try to “buy” rewards.

But shouldn't require much if any effort on the GM's / reporter's part, as it only records that the player or GM took part, which the system can record by receiving the participant's PFS number for the session, as happens by default already.

Grand Lodge ****

Whisperer in Darkness wrote:
Will it be okay to have a high Infamy? Obviously scenarios will have to account for that but rewards shouldn't be affected. I mean there's the expectation that the PC has had some issues but they still may be highly effective, just not diplomatic or maybe cooperative.

In SFS 1 Infamy is significant (either way - certain boons make it advantageous) and 3 Infamy brings removal from the campaign unless reduced by the end of the scenario.

Scarab Sages ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Netherlands aka CptJames

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Donald wrote:
"Most PCs are unlikely to earn this." on purpose.

Yeah, you get a warning before doing something infamous (as in Starfinder the scenario points this out specifically) like: Physically assaulting this NPC will give each PC who engaged with the assault 1 Infamy.

And the GM must warn you. Like: You think that punching this NPC will make you pretty infamous with the rest of the station

So yeah, it's impossible to earn by accident basically.

Scarab Sages ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Netherlands aka CptJames

1 person marked this as a favorite.
NielsenE wrote:
Very happy with everything listed aside from adopting Infamy from Starfinder. I find it hasn't been used often enough as an explicit callout to warrant it.

Shouldn't this be a good thing haha? Means you don't have a murder hobo type group. Trust me, a lot of scenarios have Infamy written in (even seen 1 that has it like 3 times) but I know a lot of my guys don't think in a way to do that.

Having said that, 1 of my players has got Infamy, they thought it was a cool add on to their character until they released the drawbacks they had.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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I'm very happy with a couple of these things. XP scaled to fit individual quests opens up a "lunchtime adventures" format. Being able to run things in shorter slots could also come in handy when squaring off against The Other Campaign.

AcP - I'm not sure about the acronym. Isn't that Armor Check Penalty? Then again, Hit Points and Hero Points are a thing.

I think this is going to put pressure on Con organizers to get reporting done more quickly. People will want their rewards. But maybe that's good, I think there's room for some technological improvement there. A Con organizer could set up an online form for GMs to report tables immediately for example, rather than resort to paper sheets and people writing illegible numbers. This doesn't require a dedicated application, just a well-designed form.

More ambitious would be printing a QR code on convention badges that can be scanned and autofilled as PFS-# into such a form with a smartphone. Given that PFS-#s have become 7-digit long, that might be an idea.

**** ⦵⦵⦵

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I am curious about proportion between AcP gained by GM for running adventure and AcP gained by players at that table: will GMs derieved from table size? Like, 3 players - players get 1 AcP and GM gets 3 AcP, 7 players - players get 1 AcP and GM gets 7 AcP.

Another question - about GM tables of credit (and AcP) for running APs and long modules in campaign mode. Now GM gets only 2 tables of credit for a game that takes way more time than two scenarios. Will that be changed?

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Fedor Checherov wrote:

I am curious about proportion between AcP gained by GM for running adventure and AcP gained by players at that table: will GMs derieved from table size? Like, 3 players - players get 1 AcP and GM gets 3 AcP, 7 players - players get 1 AcP and GM gets 7 AcP.

Another question - about GM tables of credit (and AcP) for running APs and long modules in campaign mode. Now GM gets only 2 tables of credit for a game that takes way more time than two scenarios. Will that be changed?

The SFS Skittershot chronicle is an example of this: play = 1 point, GM = 2 points, GM a Con = 3 points (I think GMing an AP book = 3 points, but don't hold me to that as I'm not looking at my chronicle).

Scarab Sages ***** Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

BigNorseWolf wrote:
will you be able to trade/give away the new stuff?

I'm sure you can trade the printed version.

Sovereign Court ****

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Lau Bannenberg wrote:

I think this is going to put pressure on Con organizers to get reporting done more quickly. People will want their rewards. But maybe that's good, I think there's room for some technological improvement there. A Con organizer could set up an online form for GMs to report tables immediately for example, rather than resort to paper sheets and people writing illegible numbers. This doesn't require a dedicated application, just a well-designed form.

More ambitious would be printing a QR code on convention badges that can be scanned and autofilled as PFS-# into such a form with a smartphone. Given that PFS-#s have become 7-digit long, that might be an idea.

While a great idea the problem with this is some of us don't own phones or venues won't have internet access, the sagamore in GenCon being a big one.

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