Andy Brown's page

FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 667 posts (817 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 21 Organized Play characters. 3 aliases.


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I get punted back to the home page if I try to go to any forum (including the second edition forum) but not when I go to a thread, so it's definitely a site-wide problem.


Jurassic Pratt wrote:
Barnabas Eckleworth III wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
The fact that your allies provide soft cover, which prevents AoOs.
I've actually seen it posted in a FAQ that your allies do not provide cover from AoOs.
Curious where this is posted. I've heard many people reference such a ruling, but have never seen it produced.

The movement rules explicitly state that allies don't provide cover when moving through their square.

As far as I know there's nothing in the rules saying they don't provide cover if if you're standing behind them, so the normal cover rules apply.


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David knott 242 wrote:

Will your answers for PF1 and/or Starfinder be archived anywhere for easy access later?

As text for offline use?

1/5

Andy Brown wrote:

When you hit level 4 inquisitor, you have an effective Druid level of 2.

The Cavalier gives you an effective Druid level equal to your Class level, not your character level.

So you end up with an AC two levels behind what a single class Cavalier would have.

Ignore all that, I'd missed the Sacred Huntsmaster giving you effective Druid level equal to Inquisitor level.

That being said, I'd say that the Domain power isn't giving you anything. Your effective Druid level is coming from your Inquisitor levels, therefore it'd overlap with the Huntsmaster levels, not stack.

1/5

When you hit level 4 inquisitor, you have an effective Druid level of 2.
The Cavalier gives you an effective Druid level equal to your Class level, not your character level.

So you end up with an AC two levels behind what a single class Cavalier would have.


Aduaitam wrote:

"Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action."

"Fascinate (Su): At 1st level, a bard can use his performance to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him.:

"Suggestion (Sp): A bard of 6th level or higher can use his performance to make a suggestion (as per the spell) to a creature that he has already fascinated (see above). Using this ability does not disrupt the fascinate effect, but it does require a standard action to activate (in addition to the free action to continue the fascinate effect)."

Both Fascinate and Suggestion are listed as Bardic Performances. RAI seems quite clear, but I was hoping for official clarification or at least strong group consensus. Is Suggestion used as part of the Fascinate performance, or is the "fascinate effect" distinct from the performance itself?

Not sure that it can be any clearer than that.

Fascinate continues, and making a Suggestion takes a standard action


Yep, add a SIN, then select it add the licence to the SIN


Whoever you pick, I'd like to say thanks for giving us the chance


hustonj wrote:
Hunh. No text output from Chummer?

It's under Print. When you get to the preview there's a dropdown for the format. You can then copy the text output from the dialog.


Falkyron wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:
Splash Damage is it's own thing, it isn't weapon damage, it is splash damage. You don't get the bonus.
Bomb wrote:
Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage

Please enlighten me Dave. From direct quotes from the Bomb ability itself, I can determine the minimum damage of a bomb thrown by an alchemist with 18 Intelligence who has +1 to weapon damage rolls from Inspire Courage is 7 (the minimum damage of 2d6+5).

Which rules, FAQ, or even blog post from a developer beyond an out-of-field decision on Point-Blank Shot can you show which would make it arbitrarily only 6 damage? The language in the ability is very clear, as is what 'weapon damage' itself 'is'.

I think the argument is that Inspire Courage doesn't increase the minimum damage, which remains at 2d6 + INT, it adds to the final damage, making it 2d6 + INT + 1. Basically, the bomb's minimum damage always remains at the value you get from the ability, and you never get any additional bonuses on splash damage.

This argument is based on the ability not defining whether 'minimum damage' includes or excludes bonus static damage from things like Point Blank Shot and Inspire Courage.


I've just been rereading previous threads on this, and come to the conclusion that the answers is "don't know, ask your GM".

The only thing that people seem to agree on is that you can't use a bonus twice (splash = increased minimum + same bonus again).
I kind of dislike the argument that Inspire Courage doesn't apply "because splash isn't a damage roll" though.
I'm still inclined not to add PBS, Inspire Courage & similar bonuses to splash, because it's just an effect that happens, rather than being something the PCs control.


I don't think there's an official answer, but I'd be inclined to treat it the same as Point Blank Shot and say you don't get it on the splash


GM Captain Placeholder wrote:
@Andy Brown - that's exactly the sort of IC snippet I was expecting, bravo, sir. No problems there, only think I can spot is the fact that I like speech bolded in-character, but I noticed you do that in your games, you probably just skipped it in copying the story. No issue there.

Thanks. Yeah, totally forgot about bolding speech when I copied the text in (got the italics for thoughts, because I use them when writing)

Making a couple of minor adjustments to the mechanics (skill tweaks) so it all hangs together, but I think I'm pretty much ready to go.


storytime:

Sunday Morning, 7 am. No respectable person would be up at this hour. Not that any respectable person would be in this part of Redmond at any time.
Glass approached his morning's target carefully. Last night there had been a small skirmish between two minor gangs; he'd watched it from the safe side of a broken window. With a bit of luck there'd still be some pieces to pick up.
Looking through the same window, he scanned the street for movement; nothing. Maybe the gangs were having a lie in after a late night. Up the street was a broken fence, with the back wheel of a bike still poking through. Glass had hoped the sudden overfly of copters had scared the gangers deeper into the barrens without picking up all the pieces, but he'd been too busy keeping his head down to get a good look at the remaining gear when it happened.
A quick scurry across the street and through the fence took him out of sight of any casual traffic, and he began to examine the mangled wheels and bent metal; the bike had hit the fence hard and there was a lot of blood. Crouching, he spotted something in a piece of wood.
Troll teeth? he thought. Might be useful for somebody.
He swung his pack to the ground and placed the teeth in one of the smaller pockets. As he was opening the pack for some tools his commlink beeped.
"Hey, Chris." Glass greeted his brother. "Up early."
"Up late." came the reply. "A friend of yours came into the shop last night. Said he'd have something you might be interested in on Tuesday, and can you get any more of the stuff you got last month? Do I want to know?"
Glass thought of the teeth he'd picked up. "Probably not. Hey, you still get that guy coming in that's building his own bike?"
"Sometimes, yeah. Think he's finished now though."
"Think he'd be interested in a couple of nearly-new ceramic brake discs?" Glass pulled a wrench out of his pack and began working on the front wheel hub.
"I'll ask him when he comes in. Catch you later, bro'."
"Yeah."

Pulling the brake discs off took longer than Glass would have liked; he was just beginning to examine the rest of the bike for salvageable parts when he heard a noise behind him.
"Hey man, what ya doing to our bike?" The voice belonged to the older of two kids wearing gang colours; about 16, but already trouble.
"Your bike?" Glass asked as he turned. "Looks like nobody's, lying here."
"It's on our turf, drek-head, so it's ours."
Glass looked round for another way out of the yard; the only options appeared to be through the building, or through the kids, who had now pulled bike chains out of pockets.
"Yeah, well, you can have it." Glass replied.
"And whatever else ya got."
"Not happening, Chummer." Glass mentally reached inside himself for the power lurking there and threw a bolt of force at the older of the two kids, then turned and ran for where the fence met the building. The younger ganger turned to look at his stunned friend, then gave chase.
Glass hit the wall at a run and parkoured his way over the fence with two more steps. Rolling as he hit the ground he turned and sprinted along the side of the building as he heard scrabbling on the wooden fence.
Glass slowed as he approached the next corner, and casually turned down a street leading toward Renton; just another citizen out for a Sunday morning stroll.


OK then,

Alex 'Glass' Scott:

Alex was born in Renton, to Human parents. The family lived in the North of the district, close to Redmond, and both of his parents worked menial jobs as and when they could.
Growing up was hard on Alex and his older brother Chris; both boys getting into fights thanks to Alex's noticable eyes and ears and Chris protecting him. Things could have been even worse when Alex started to develop the ability to move things around with magic, and to direct the same power into his attackers, if Chris hadn't gone out of his way to convince everybody that his brother was normal, and any tales of magic were just more attempts to cause trouble.
As Alex got older he began to explore various parts of north Renton and south Redmond, collecting various mechanical and organic items he found interesting; he also began to develop the ability to not be where trouble was, or to fade into the background in a way that left people unable to describe him any better than "some Elf kid". This earned him the nickname of "glass" because "he's there, you just look right through him", as one of his few friends once said.
When Alex was 16, Chris set up a small pawn-broking business, which Alex found useful for selling off some of the more useful things he found, sometimes after a bit of repair. Through Chris's business Alex also made contact with some direct buyers of the things he was scavenging, both mechanical bits and organics useful to magical practitioners; all of these he would trade for things he wanted for his own use.
By the time he was 18, Alex had moved to a squat in the south of Redmond, and had developed more magical abilities, gaining the notice of a Rat mentor spirit that seemed to help him move through the Barrens without attracting too much attention.

Now 20, Alex still visits Chris, sometimes with things to sell, sometimes just to stay in touch with the family. His magical abilities have made him occasionally useful to other inhabitants of the Redmond/Renton border, and his aility to find useful plants and mechanical bits & pieces keeps him afloat.

Just recently he's been looking at making more use of his abilities to improve his living conditions - there's only so much dirt you can live with...

mechanically:

== Personal Data ==
Name: Alex Scott Alias: Glass
Elf, Male
Movement: 8/16 (2m/hit)
Swim: 3 (1m/hit)
160 lb (72,6 Kg), 6'2" (188 cm) Composure: 12
Street Cred: 0 Judge Intentions: 9
Notoriety: 1 Lift/Carry: 4 (30 kg/20 kg)
Public Awareness: 0 Memory: 7
Karma: 0 Nuyen: 465¥
Age: 20 Skin: dirty
Eyes: brown Hair: brown
Primary Arm: Right

== Priorities ==
Metatype: C,2
Attributes: C,2
Special: A,4
Skills: C,2
Resources: E,0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 2 CHA: 6
AGI: 4 INT: 3
REA: 3 LOG: 1
STR: 2 WIL: 6
EDG: 4 MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes
Essence: 6.00 Initiative: 6 +1d6
Physical Damage Track: 9 Rigger Initiative: 6 +1d6
Stun Damage Track: 11 Astral Initiative: 6 +3d6
Physical: 3 Matrix AR: 6 +1d6
Mental: 4 Matrix Cold: 4 +3d6
Social: 8 Matrix Hot: 4 +4d6
Astral: 8

== Active Skills ==
Alchemy Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 8
Animal Handling Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 7
Archery (Crossbow) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 5 (7)
Artificing Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 7
Assensing Base: 5 + Karma: 0 = 5 Pool: 8
Astral Combat Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 8
Banishing (Spirits of Air) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 7 (9)
Blades Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 6
Clubs Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 6
Counterspelling Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 7
Disenchanting Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 7
First Aid Base: 3 + Karma: 0 = 3 Pool: 4
Gymnastics Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 5
Negotiation (Bargaining) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 7 (9)
Perception Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 5
Pilot Ground Craft Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 4
Sneaking (Urban) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 7 (9)
Spellcasting Base: 5 + Karma: 0 = 5 Pool: 11
Survival (Urban) Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 8 (10)
Tracking (Urban) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 4 (6)
Unarmed Combat Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 6

== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Seattle Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 5
Biology Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 3
Engineering (Mechanical) Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 3 (5)
Popular Music Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 4

== Qualities ==
Blandness
Gremlins
Guts
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Rat)
Spirit Bane (Water)

== Tradition ==
Shamanic, Resist Drain with 12

== Spells ==
Analyze Magic DV: F-3
Armor DV: F-2
Armor (Alchemical) DV: F-2
Bugs DV: F-3
Clout DV: F-3
Detox DV: F-6
Heal DV: F-4
Ignite DV: F-1
Improved Invisibility (Alchemical)DV: F-1
Magic Fingers DV: F-2
Powerbolt DV: F-3
Stunbolt DV: F-3

== Lifestyle ==
Squat (Squatter) 6 Months
+ Grid Subscription (Public Grid) [+50¥]

== Armor ==
Armor Clothing 6
Clothing 0

== Weapons ==
Knife (Survival Kit)
Pool: 6 Accuracy: 5 DV: 3P AP: -1 RC: 2
Light Crossbow
Pool: 5 Accuracy: 7 DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 6 Accuracy: 3 DV: 2S AP: - RC: 2

== Commlink ==
Meta Link (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 1, FWL: 1)
+ Commlink Functionality [Camera, Micro, Chip Player, Credstick Reader, Earbuds, GPS Guidance System, Micro Trid-Projector, Music Player, RFID Tag Scanner, Shock- and Water-Resistant Case, Touchscreen Display]

== Gear: Equipped ==
Backpack (Good)
Binoculars, Optical
+ Vision Magnification
Bolt: Standard (Crossbows) ×40
Canteen, One Liter
Certified Credstick, Silver ×5
+ Nuyen (¥) ×200
Fake SIN (sin) Rating 1
+ Fake License (Driver's License) Rating 1
+ Fake License (Mage License) Rating 1
Goggles Rating 3
+ Low Light
Hand Tool (Good) (Multi-tool)
Light Stick ×5
Magical Lodge Materials (Shamanic) Rating 3
Reagents, per dram (Shamanic) ×10
Roll of Duct Tape ×2
Survival Kit
+ Lighter
+ Compass
+ Matches
+ Lightweight Thermal Blanket
+ Several Days' Worth of Ration Bars
+ Water Purification Unit
Tool Belt (Good)
Tool Kit (Automotive Mechanic)

== Concept ==
Street Shaman/scavenger

== Contacts ==
(Smuggler), (Connection: 5, Loyalty: 2)

(Street Vendor), (Connection: 3, Loyalty: 1)

(Fixer), (Connection: 4, Loyalty: 3)

Chris Scott (Pawn Broker), Renton (Connection: 3, Loyalty: 4)


do you want backgrounds here (in a spoiler?) or elsewhere?


Character ideas are coming together (if I could just stop changing my mind about skills & spells) - I'll just need a bit of help with his contacts, I think.


Totem is one of the things I'm trying to decide on (leaning toward cat, rat or raven)


Over on the other thread I said something about not going for anything too complicated, but I'm actually now thinking about a (street) shaman. I've got a few ideas I need to knock into shape, and to reread the magic rules, and get my head round the character generation.

I'll also mention that I'm away at a convention from the 21st to 27th, but should have some sort of web access.


First time playing Shadowrun 5th, so nothing too complicated :)

Also definitely not a Decker, due to real life


what skills have you got points in?


Interesting.
The 5th ed quickstart guide is a freeby (that can be found on the catalyst games website, or other websites known for selling electronic RPG rules)


JiaYou wrote:
since if it can't be used with Spell Combat, it can't be used with Spellstrike.

Not true.

Spell combat lets you cast a spell and make attacks using the same full round action.
Spell Strike let's you attack with your weapon instead of making a touch attack.

They can be used together, but they don't have to be.


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The gloves don't say anything about removing the save, so the target still gets to roll


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Ruzza wrote:
I don't understand how this wasn't clear.
Playtest rulebook pdf wrote:
We’re attempting bold strides in this new edition of the game, but it’s far from finalized. This is where you come in—this book is only a playtest of the final version of the game, which we’ll release in August 2019. Over the next few months, we hope you’ll help us refine the game to make it even better.

That bit I highlighted. Easy to read that as "this is very close to what we'll release next year, but we'll listen to your input for some minor tweaks" and not realise that the "far from finalized" part means they're actually OK with making major changes to stuff.


Exactly that. Looked at Archives of Nethys and in the APG, but not on d20pfsrd, and couldn't find that paragraph


The Rogue talent says "this works like evasion except..." so it should (RAW, at least) work fine without having Evasion.
Monk's Improved Evasion says "a monk's Evasion ability improves", so wouldn't do anything if you didn't already have Evasion.

So whether you get the ability without needing the lesser version or not depends on how the ability is worded.

There's something somewhere (which I can't find right now, but I'm fairly sure the example was Fighter Weapon Training or Armour Training) that talks about getting delayed versions of class abilities if an earlier one is replaced, which would give the Monk Evasion instead of Improved Evasion


blahpers wrote:
More often than getting super-secret clarifications, Lone Wolf also sometimes gets things wrong when there is no official clarification, just like the rest of us do.

This is true, leading to people doing things a particular way because they aren't aware it's not right/clear.


Just a quick thought, with most options likely coming from the MAH, are things going to be suitably covered as far as magic and healing?


That explains why I'd not seen it before. Couldn't find it on Archives of Nethys either.


I'd go with yes, the AC and yes.

The spell has a target of 'You', so is eligible for Share Spells, assuming you've got the spell on your class's list.

Because the AC is the target of the spell, it will need to take the Immediate action

That seems like something an AC wouldn't normally be intelligent enough to do (not sure even an Int 3+ AC would), so you'll need Receive Spell

(Where's Receive Spell from?)


Pretty sure that all primary attacks are at full BAB in a full attack if you're not using a manufactured weapon


Just noticed that Hero Lab adds the bonus to the off-hand end (both t hit and damage).
Not an official source of course, but they do sometimes get clarifications the rest of us don't.


Possibly interested. I've been trying to build a decent spear user based on various martial arts movies for ages, and the Spear Fighter archetype looks like it might fill a couple of gaps in what I want to do (and the Dragonfly Style feats look interesting, but Spear Dancing Style would be the main focus)

As for PbP, I've been in two games, one folded very quickly, and the other took a bit longer before dying. The latter game possibly gives a bit of a look at my writing style, but I didn't get to sort it out properly: game posts also shows a couple of horrible newbie errors :/

Building an 11th level fighter (Vudrani human probably, with the emphasis on spears) should be OK, even including the new martial arts stuff that's not in hero lab

1/5

Fairly sure this post from Mike Brock as Organised Play Coordinator still applies


For something like Mirror Image or Blur I don't think it's unreasonable for an intelligent opponent to see an obviously harder to hit than normal target and chose an attack option that doesn't require precise targeting.
For something with a less obvious effect then it really ought to be a Knowledge (Arcana) or Spellcraft check to identify what's going on.

Personally, I think experience does count; if a fighter has seen the same spells used many times over their career, they'd have to be particularly dumb not to have asked their friendly spellcaster what it is and how to deal with it.

(Don't forget that a sorcerer is going to have above average intelligence if they're throwing anything more than cantrips around)


Darrell Impey UK wrote:
It is taking an action within a threatened area which provokes, not whether they can reach the person performing the action. Grappling says that it provokes, not that it provokes if performed within a threatened area.

This is true, however the Imp doesn't have enough reach to actually land the attack.


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Joe M. wrote:
1) Yea or Nay? When asked, overall what’s your optimism for PF2, in light of the playtest rules and all updates through the playtest? Currently, only 4% of responses are negative about the direction things are going. 66% of responses are overwhelmingly positive. Jason says he’s pretty confident in the accuracy of that small 4% number.

I wonder how that 4% takes into account people who gave up on the playtest to the point that they didn't take the surveys. (whether that be 'gave up after playtesting' or 'didn't even bother')

The problem with this sort of things is that there's bound to be a self-selection bias toward those in favour of the rules.

1/5

Hardware the Tech wrote:

Some of us just keep plugging on, elsewhere.

They used to have some RP forums here, which people use to use, but since they removed them, things just keep getting quieter and quieter.

Adventurer's League and the growing number of other Organized Play options also take a bite. I have also seen many people that move on to home games over Society games, and prefer that. (Not that there is anything wrong with that, just means less Society players.)

You mean these forums?

1/5

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
or 2) the dm tells you that the "Space paris hilton's friendship" boon is going to come up this time.

And that sort of thing is an even bigger spoiler than some of the earlier season's faction missions.


It's unlikely any paizo staff are going to clarify something that's already that clear, particularly on a Sunday

1/5

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Throwing in my 2p

Add me to the folks who dislike the smaller sheets due to higher likelihood of getting lost, and reduced amount of space for fun stuff. Having stuff that works properly on A4 would be nice too :)

Personally I'd like to see the ITS totally replace the chronicles for recording character income & expenditure, but have it include everything, none of this ignoring purchases below a certain amount. Ideally it would cover character money, experience and prestige (assuming it's still used).

As for boons, I got extremely bored of race boons as a reward for GMing; as I don't get to play often, I really don't need another reason to be starting another character.
I also really dislike the starfinder way of doing things; having access to every boon the character has earned means that you could have something obscure and situational available when you need it without the scenario writer/GM having to give hints & spoilers to what's coming up. On the other hand a lot of the chronicle boons were so situational as to be effectively worthless.
It would be better to have fewer boons, but make them more meaningful.

As for online vs offline recording, I think it's important to have offline as an option at least, because net access is not always available.


The thing is, not going to Expert because a class is based around Wisdom is only a reasonable approach if the only effect of being Expert instead of Trained is an increased bonus.
One of the major selling points of the PF2 proficiency system is that being Expert lets you do things that somebody who's only Trained can't even attempt. In this case we then end up with the Monk being described as a really perceptive class but not even being able to attempt certain tasks (not that I've seen anything being locked behind Expert proficiency). It's sort of how the PF1 Monk was described as a mobile fighter but being more effective if they stood still.


Balkoth wrote:
Regarding #1, I had expected the party to either split the cost of things like raises/restorations (since some party members are more likely to die/get drained/etc than others) and/or set aside a separate "party fund" to make sure they had the money on hand to deal with stuff as it came up. Instead, they've been having each person pay for their own raises.

Sounds like you've got a group of adventurers who happen to be in the same place, not an adventuring party.

In character, it'd make more sense for somebody who's died several times, and got little or no support from their 'friends' to decide to hang up their gear and open a tavern somewhere, so I understand the feeling of wanting to bring in a new character.

Could be time for a quick OOC chat about how the group is working together (or isn't)


ShadeRaven wrote:
Even in a move, attack, attack or ready shield rounds, that choice between +2 and Shield Block and an addition -5 attack is tough.

I think that's exactly the reaction the design team wanted


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Actually this tweet says that the designers don't know how it works


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The Blue Fairy wrote:
Things like Resonance make way more sense as optional-for-home-play, but mandatory-for-Society-play rules rather than being hard-coded into the entire balance of the game.

Just my opinion:

Resonance (for consumables) is terrible for PFS. The current setup for healing really needs a Cleric in the party, and you can't guarantee that for PFS.


N N 959 wrote:
There is no ambiguity. The Animal Companion rules tell us, specifically how it works: You Command an Animal and the animal gets two actions. That's it. Straight forward, simple.

And Command an Animal says you must first use Handle Animal or Ride.

I agree that your interpretation is more likely to be correct - one PC action to get 2 AC actions (I'll leave out my views on whether that's a good rule), but it's not what the rules actually say. A bit like the Shield Block rules, RAW need to be fixed.


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N N 959 wrote:
Almarane wrote:
I also think Handle Animal is a requirement for Command Animal. The normal "usual effect" is the 1 action, replaced by 2 actions. It never states you don't need to Handle your animal companion.

Handle Animal isn't a requirement for Command an Animal. Handle Animal is a requirement for Command an Animal to work on an animal that is not a Companion.

The Companion rules state specifically how it works for a Companion:

Quote:
Animal companions are loyal comrades who follow your orders. They have the minion trait, so they gain 2 actions during your turn if you use the Command an Animal action to command them; this is in place of the usual effects of Command an Animal.

Emphasis mine.

This is straight forward and without ambiguity. There is no text anywhere in the book that says Handle Animal is required for an "Animal Companion."

However, Command an Animal starts with this:

Quote:
You issue an order to an animal that’s obeying you, either because you previously used Handle an Animal successfully (see below) or you have the Ride feat (see page 170).

Neither Animal Companion or Minion rules explicitly override this


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Probably separate lists. Finding the Powers among the Spells is non-trivial

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