Does anyone else think it's a little weird that Navasi kinda stole the identity of her dead lover? When the real Navasi died, she copied her hair, personality, name, and one eye.
I know everyone comes to grieve in their own way, but is that what's going on, or is this assumption of identity normal on Absalom Station?
If it isn't normal, would "Navasi" begin to acquire a collection of fallen companions traits? Sort of totemic-like? If so, will she be calling on her different "personalities" for different situations, like if she needs to be in charge and charismatic, then she's Navasi. If she needs to be in the gunner's seat during ship combat (and something unfortunate has happened to Obozaya) then she's sees herself as a vesk with knowledge of heavy weapons.
In a technologically advanced society, it is hard to survive with a completely fake identity. It's far easier to use the identity of someone who has died, especially if they haven't been proven dead (i.e. dying in an explosion). Navasi needed a new identity, and depending on how intimate the two were, it would be increasingly easy to fake her identity as Navasi.
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Okay I know I'm going to catch hell for this too but.... Does every group of characters need to have a gay character? Do we really need to know? It's starting to seem forced. And before everyone jumps on me, I don't care what your orientation is its your business, not mine. Do what makes you happy.
Counterpoint: Does this kind of question have to come up every time there is a non-hetero iconic?
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Okay, but ask yourself why you feel the need choose a world without minorities.I had read the above as the two women being friends without having to read in gay. Let people choose.That's how I read it.
I tend to think of the world of Absalom Station to be a Frontier like world. Everyone united and ready to explore the unknown. Space is the last frontier, and people can go out and explore space and find new worlds to colonize.
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I didn't read anything about her sexuality either, especially with the heroic sacrifice. I love my bros from the army and have seen some of the same types of heroic sacrifice from my closest friends, but we were totally straight. Without the author saying that she was specifically a lesbian I wouldn't have put that together.
Not that it really matters any ways. I am just intrigued on how people caught on to it so quickly, just like how I didn't pick up that Shardra was a transgendered iconic either.
Maybe it is just my cis gendered white male privlage.
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I HATE HER!!!!
Stupid job-ruining do-gooder...
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Wherever the plausibility exists, I read characters as queer as heck. More gay space ladies, please! :P
Oh jeez.... Technology and I are not buddies isee it now I read it as less than three. Which made zero sense.
Man you inadvertently kicked the hornet's nest.
The only thing worse would have been to say that The Force Awakens isn't the best Star Wars film since 83; it isn't but that's a fight for a different forum.All people want the hero to be cast in their image and for the story and its central conflict to resonate with their lives, and more importantly their common-sense.
This is of course impossible because "if you try to please all you please none",somebody in someway is going to feel disinterested,excluded, and at worst offended.
I thought it would be pronounced WayDan.
The countdown to Starfinder has officially begun..
Helllll yeah!!!
I love the world Navasi's background details, but I feel bad for her parents. Sure we want things for our kids and try to encourage them, but between never seeing them again or letting the kid go their own way? Most will definately want to stay involved in the kid's life.
So straight disappears on her 18th birthday? Heart wrenching! They must be devastated, never knowing if she is alive or what happened. And now with her living back on the station in secret, we'll have to wait and see of they can reunite.
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Oh jeez.... Technology and I are not buddies isee it now I read it as less than three. Which made zero sense.Man you inadvertently kicked the hornet's nest.
The only thing worse would have been to say that The Force Awakens isn't the best Star Wars film since 83; it isn't but that's a fight for a different forum.All people want the hero to be cast in their image and for the story and its central conflict to resonate with their lives, and more importantly their common-sense.
This is of course impossible because "if you try to please all you please none",somebody in someway is going to feel disinterested,excluded, and at worst offended.
h
Only to lighten the mood.....you mean you haven't seen Rogue One yet?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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The end of the story is actually creepier to me if Navasi and her friend were romantically involved. I didn't read it that way at all, but seeing the thread it seems a lot of people do. If your great friend dies valiantly saving you and you emulate how they look, that's honoring them. If you start changing your appearance to look just like your dead lover, that crosses over into creepy.
Creepy is generally good for a fictional character, but viewing the story that way, I'm not sure I'd want to hang out with Navasi if I ever learned that she's trying to look like her dead lover. That's a bit Single White Female
The countdown to Starfinder has officially begun..Helllll yeah!!!
I love the world Navasi's background details, but I feel bad for her parents. Sure we want things for our kids and try to encourage them, but between never seeing them again or letting the kid go their own way? Most will definately want to stay involved in the kid's life.
So straight disappears on her 18th birthday? Heart wrenching! They must be devastated, never knowing if she is alive or what happened. And now with her living back on the station in secret, we'll have to wait and see of they can reunite.
You know, that would be an interesting character twist, if her parents didn't end up being deplorable McScrooges, but were simply rich, naive people that annoyed the heck out of their adolescent daughter. I mean, I love the evil, rich parents trope as much as any chap, but this idea has some nice sentiment to it. That the hardest thing about facing them again is Navasi's own guilt about what she'd done.
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I enjoyed Navasi before I knew her back story: it was a fun image that I wanted to cosplay. Plus... a purple-haired bard. How can one go wrong with that? But now I just simply adore the richness and depth of the backstory that was represented here. This made me see Absalom Station, and understand so much more about the setting. I felt like I was following Navasi around and getting a personal tour of the place.
As much as I enjoyed Navasi's backstory, I too felt a pang for her parents. Maybe this is because I have a 17 year old daughter who is taking flight and opening her own wings. Seeing my child develop a social consciousness, go to political protests where I worry for her safety yet still encourage her to follow her heart, watching her give readings of her poetry, seeing her expanding her world beyond her parents -- I am so proud of her. I am also terrified, knowing that she has to fly on her own and I can no longer protect her as I did when she was a young child. Being a parent of teens means that I can empathize with the loss those parents must have felt!
Is taking on your lover's identity and characteristics slightly creepy? Yes, I think so, but I really enjoyed that Navasi did this. It is an interesting question of when such actions cross over from being homage to obsessiveness... On the other hand, I like obsessive people. This quirk breathed life into the character for me. I now see her not just as a Robin Hood on the run, but as a real person who has found a way to cope in the face of enormous grief.
Amanda, I think you did a lovely job and gave us lots of interesting story hooks to play with. Thanks for giving us a new god, as well as Space Pirates and Street Gangs! I am so looking forward to seeing what you do with all the other iconics!
Thank you!
Hmm
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Oh jeez.... Technology and I are not buddies isee it now I read it as less than three. Which made zero sense.Man you inadvertently kicked the hornet's nest.
The only thing worse would have been to say that The Force Awakens isn't the best Star Wars film since 83; it isn't but that's a fight for a different forum.All people want the hero to be cast in their image and for the story and its central conflict to resonate with their lives, and more importantly their common-sense.
This is of course impossible because "if you try to please all you please none",somebody in someway is going to feel disinterested,excluded, and at worst offended.
h
Only to lighten the mood.....you mean you haven't seen Rogue One yet?
I was mildly amused by TFA it was diet soda to me, I loved Rogue One that was A&W Root beer. III is the best Saga film since 83 and I doubt that VIII is going or even IX are going to change that.
On the subject of Navasi I'm just not impressed.
Her back story might have worked better in comic or novel form.
Even when I was at the age, I never immediately connected with the rebellious teen. So Navasi's little "I Do What I Want", ending badly for her, warmed my heart.
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Does anyone else think it's a little weird that Navasi kinda stole the identity of her dead lover? When the real Navasi died, she copied her hair, personality, name, and one eye.
I know everyone comes to grieve in their own way, but is that what's going on, or is this assumption of identity normal on Absalom Station?
Probably not, but its so normal for a protagonist background that it literally has its own TV Tropes page.
A bittersweet way of looking at it would be, "I loved you so much that when you died, I died. It should have been me who died back there, and it will have been, for I will take your name and your hair and every piece of the wonderful person that was you and embody them. I will stop living, as I should have done, and instead I will give back life to you."
Admit it, it is rather touching when you actually LOOK at the motivation behind making a choice like that.
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I love this. The quality of the writing is just sublime. Thank you for that, and for making her queer.
Agree with Joel above on creep factor with "adopting wholesale identity of dead lover" bit. That said, the virtual transference of deity's personality is a cool concept, especially if you suppose it to be a periodically recurring process, possibly across species or genders.
Seriously, if you are complaining about representation of sexual minorities in a SF universe where 1000s of species co-exist, some of whose sexualities diverge from what any human can comprehend, you are playing the wrong game. Exploring all possibilities is a staple of SF, and that extends to sexualities. If anything, Navasi fails to fulfill the "minority representation mascot" role by the relevant facts being so underplayed and ambiguous... even by the author's follow-up in this thread, I can't say if old-Navasi fully reciprocated new-Navasi's feelings.
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You know, that would be an interesting character twist, if her parents didn't end up being deplorable McScrooges, but were simply rich, naive people that annoyed the heck out of their adolescent daughter. I mean, I love the evil, rich parents trope as much as any chap, but this idea has some nice sentiment to it. That the hardest thing about facing them again is Navasi's own guilt about what she'd done.The countdown to Starfinder has officially begun..Helllll yeah!!!
I love the world Navasi's background details, but I feel bad for her parents. Sure we want things for our kids and try to encourage them, but between never seeing them again or letting the kid go their own way? Most will definately want to stay involved in the kid's life.
So straight disappears on her 18th birthday? Heart wrenching! They must be devastated, never knowing if she is alive or what happened. And now with her living back on the station in secret, we'll have to wait and see of they can reunite.
Even if they were nice, I'm guessing they'd still try to reassert control over their daughter. They know much better! And have so many more resources! After all, look at what happened to her on her own. Now be a good girl and put on the dress, we're having a few friends over that can't wait to see you again after all these years. Except, maybe don't mention the piracy? And I'm not going to call you Navasi, I gave you your name already.
Parents don't always accept their children's choices, or even that their children have choices (chance of that seems to increase with higher status, but I've not made a study of it). And sometimes that leads to them not accepting their children.
If you think that's far-fetched, some of my friends, even in this year, can't talk to their parents, because they're queer or genderqueer (or both) and their parents would rather write them off than deal with that. It's increasingly uncommon, especially in the US, but it still happens. And just yesterday I read about a woman whose husband had been disowned when he married her. 18 years later, and his parents still hate her and refuse to see them or their children.
So perhaps they might mean well, and we may see that explored if Starfinder gets a comic line. But they might not be capable of doing well by Navasi, whatever their intentions.
Even if they were nice, I'm guessing they'd still try to reassert control over their daughter. They know much better! And have so many more resources! After all, look at what happened to her on her own. Now be a good girl and put on the dress, we're having a few friends over that can't wait to see you again after all these years. Except, maybe don't mention the piracy? And I'm not going to call you Navasi, I gave you your name already.Parents don't always accept their children's choices, or even that their children have choices (chance of that seems to increase with higher status, but I've not made a study of it). And sometimes that leads to them not accepting their children.
If you think that's far-fetched, some of my friends, even in this year, can't talk to their parents, because they're queer or genderqueer (or both) and their parents would rather write them off than deal with that. It's increasingly uncommon, especially in the US, but it still...
Eesh, stories like that eat me up inside. Rejection and betrayal by one's own family really stings like nothing else. I get the impression Navasi's story might be timely in a number of ways. Speaking of which - I did not notice any reference to her former name or identity before Navasi - was this deliberate, or was this tidbit just not mentioned?
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Thank you for this, Amanda. Navasi is amazing. And thank you to the devs who have chimed in on this thread.
To the straight people who complain that Navasi's sexuality is "too subtle", that they "didn't get it", that "stating sexuality isn't necessary" or that "pandering is insulting"... maybe consider that, for once, this character's backstory is not for you. Much like with Shardra. And that that is okay. Straight folks are plenty catered to. You can't even tell when you're being pandered to, because literally everything else in the media is a representation of what you look like and who you love. Yes, this is an effect of your privilege. If you couldn't tell that Navasi was in love with her partner, ask yourself why you are unaware of this. Ask yourself why coded language to address queer sexuality and identity has been a necessity in Europe and the US over the last few centuries. Stop assuming straight people are the default.
This goes for any time you think a minority is being "over-represented" (whatever the hell that means) or pandered to. There is no quota. Let minority people cheer for those whose identities they relate to. It's a big sandbox and you have plenty of toys.
If you need to erase her backstory or pick and choose through it to empathize with Navasi as a character... how do you manage to empathize with anything else in fantasy? Lizardfolk are fine, but you can't play a character if it turns out she canonically likes girls? When you say "let players choose" on issues like this, you are saying "let people pretend that real people, with them at the table, have identities that don't matter and can be replaced with something else". Several people who have replied to this thread aren't straight. Try to picture how reading your words feels like to us.
I have to wonder how many of the straight folks who so vehemently defend "let players choose the sexuality of an iconic" get mad when fanfiction writers come up with non-straight pairings.
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Hold on a second guys. Navasi didn't adopt wholesale her lover's identity. She took her name, her hair color, and one colored contact. That's not creepy, that's recognizing that you need to change your identity, and adopting some minor details of your dead lover to remember her by.
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Did she remind anyone else of Ameiko? Ever since the first illustration I've referred to her as "space Ameiko". First, let me be clear that's high praise - Ameiko is one of my favorite NPCs (I've DMed both RotR and JR) and I love her personality, which her Wayne Reynolds art conveys greatly.
Both have that one-sided sarcastic expression, wear short hair and are asian. Rich parents she rebelled against by engaging in an adventuring career, which ended up in a tragedy involving the loss of close friends.
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Hold on a second guys. Navasi didn't adopt wholesale her lover's identity. She took her name, her hair color, and one colored contact. That's not creepy, that's recognizing that you need to change your identity, and adopting some minor details of your dead lover to remember her by.
I really like the one contact detail. Looking in a mirror must be like looking at a blend of herself and Navasi. Her spirit can live on.
Developer
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I find it truly perplexing that someone can claim that a character's sexuality is so overt as to be beating the reader over the head with it, while also claiming that they wouldn't have assumed the character was queer at all until they read the comments. Which is it?
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I find it truly perplexing that someone can claim that a character's sexuality is so overt as to be beating the reader over the head with it, while also claiming that they wouldn't have assumed the character was queer at all until they read the comments. Which is it?
Representation: If explicit, it's "in your face" and "pandering" and "forced". If implicit, it's "too subtle, couldn't tell, I choose to erase queer folk."
If it's not catering to a cishet white majority, they will be damned sure to let you know how many things are wrong with it. How dare you create content that is not targeting straight white men. How dare you say that this heroic character is not heteronormative.
On the subject of Navasi's birth name, I not only see a firm point of not stating it for the sake of her new identity (and possibly protecting her own past), but hints of how people treat deadnames. It's not relevant, and if people knew it, they could use it to hurt her. It's safer forgotten.
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Also, I heard "sample size" mentioned. Over 7% of millennials identify as somewhere on the LGBT+ spectrum, and the number is continuing to grow every year. When you find yourselves in open-minded areas like artist communities, the percentage basically multiplies by ten. Funny, isn't it? Almost like we're not nearly as "majority heterosexual" as we tend to assume.
I tend to lean on the belief that the majority of us are a lot less straight than we think. Most of us are just het enough to avoid having to consider too much about ourselves. But hey, that's just a pet theory. EDIT: And not that it matters, because s*&$, man, it's a space game, who cares about statistics? You tell me the star goblins are the rarest s$*% around nowadays, I don't give a f+$@, I'm gonna play me some star goblins. Since when do we care about statistical proportions? Bad nerds!
Anyways, I love Navasi. She's got just enough "classic pulp" while still standing out. I would love to roleplay her, and I don't say that often about iconics! Gay communist space pirates away!
(I'm kinda headcanoning her as ace, though, because of the vagueness of her relationship with, er, "her friend". I'm also hardcore shipping them, because come on, guys, how did anyone miss that subtext?)
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I liked Navasi's story, and I'm looking forward to hearing about the others'.
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You know, that would be an interesting character twist, if her parents didn't end up being deplorable McScrooges, but were simply rich, naive people that annoyed the heck out of their adolescent daughter. I mean, I love the evil, rich parents trope as much as any chap, but this idea has some nice sentiment to it. That the hardest thing about facing them again is Navasi's own guilt about what she'd done.The countdown to Starfinder has officially begun..Helllll yeah!!!
I love the world Navasi's background details, but I feel bad for her parents. Sure we want things for our kids and try to encourage them, but between never seeing them again or letting the kid go their own way? Most will definately want to stay involved in the kid's life.
So straight disappears on her 18th birthday? Heart wrenching! They must be devastated, never knowing if she is alive or what happened. And now with her living back on the station in secret, we'll have to wait and see of they can reunite.
I didn't get the sense that they were evil. Just that she was naive and a bit of an idiot. And lucky she didn't end up as worse than pirate with a nagging conscience and a bizarre belief that hair dye would help her hide (which indicates that she's still naive and a bit of an idiot)
Even if it works, hiding out as your primary 'known associate' will still get you picked up.
But I got the impression she never really talked with her parents, or thought for even a moment how much good she could do from home. And more good, at that, because it meant less adventure and excitement, which is what she really wanted.
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So hey, what does everyone think Navasi's leadership style would be as a captain? The last paragraph makes me think she's more of a nicer leader rather than a demanding or intimidating one, focusing on Diplomacy rather than Intimidate, and her principles might cause her to think of herself less as "the boss" than as the facilitator who brought together a particular specialist crew, so more like a first among equals. What do you think?I think she probably views having to give orders in itself as something of a failure on her part - if she'd hired the right people, they'd already be doing what needed doing without her having to say anything. Inasmuch as she does have to tell people what to do, I really can't see her as a martinet; "first among equals" seems like it would fit her precisely.
Same here. The navigator looks to her and asks, 'Should I set a course, Captain' and she just boggles, 'Why are you asking me? You're the navigator.' <flutters her hand dismissively> 'Navigate!' 'And I'm not going to insult the giant lizard by telling him to raise shields when we're being shot at, because he'll have already done it before I got the words out anyway, and then probably chew me out for telling him how to do his job instead of doing important Captain stuff, like figuring out how we're going to get out of this in one piece...'
It's cool that ponchos are still a thing in the future/in space. Not a lot of people could pull off that look. Are those metal inlays purely ornamental or do they have a special meaning?
Navasi seems to be the urdu word for granddaughter. I couldn't place 'Nyori'. I wonder if human ethnicities are still a thing?
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Awesome background.
However something annoys me about the drawing which I hadn't looked at closely enough before, namely the lack of trigger discipline.
A clever distraction- that's only her posing gun. In the spacefuture, anybody who's anybody has a posing gun.