Introducing Starfinder’s Final Core Race: The Shirren!

lordofthemax wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Quandary wrote:

Sounds like these guys are like alt-(Pathfinder)-Gnomes in a way...

Ysoki/Ratfolk, which previously existed in Golarion, treading more alt-D&D-Tinker-Gnome territory...

What is the difference between the treatment of the new "Starfinder Core" races and the old Pathfinder Core races?
"Core Races" in PRPG meant the PC stat races in Core Book.
Only now I hear all those races will also be included in Starfinder Core Rules.
Except amongst those, only Human has been described as a Core Starfinder Race.
Will a distinction between those two groups of PC Races be an ongoing thing, or is it just weirdness of Blog Previews?

There is a distinction.

Imagine if we had put fetchlings and tengu in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook.

... you should have put Tengu in the core rulebook...

...can we have Tengu in Starfinder?...

Spacebirbs!

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

Thri-kreen are awesome, but we already have one 4-armed race (which, fun fact, a lot of the community believes was based on le thri-kreen). Two 4-armed races would just be kinda dumb.

Kharn the Betrayer wrote:

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

Thri-kreen are awesome, but we already have one 4-armed race (which, fun fact, a lot of the community believes was based on le thri-kreen). Two 4-armed races would just be kinda dumb.

Well, Thri-kreen and Protoss equally. Making the iconic Solarion a Kasatha kind of makes the Protoss heritage pop a little more.

Aaaand no non-humanoid races. Or goblins. I'm saddened by this. Would've been a great opportunity to break from the norm.

lordofthemax wrote:

Kharn the Betrayer wrote:

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

Thri-kreen are awesome, but we already have one 4-armed race (which, fun fact, a lot of the community believes was based on le thri-kreen). Two 4-armed races would just be kinda dumb.

Well, Thri-kreen and Protoss equally. Making the iconic Solarion a Kasatha kind of makes the Protoss heritage pop a little more.

Kasatha don't really look a thing like warhammer eldar, which is what Protoss heritage really is. Space Elves

Torbyne wrote:

lordofthemax wrote:

Kharn the Betrayer wrote:

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

Thri-kreen are awesome, but we already have one 4-armed race (which, fun fact, a lot of the community believes was based on le thri-kreen). Two 4-armed races would just be kinda dumb.

Well, Thri-kreen and Protoss equally. Making the iconic Solarion a Kasatha kind of makes the Protoss heritage pop a little more.

Kasatha don't really look a thing like warhammer eldar, which is what Protoss heritage really is. Space Elves

Kasatha-Eldar to Protoss-Eldar isnt really relevant to my point though, look at Kasatha-Protoss links. The tall builds, slender frams, elongated skulls, no idea whats going on with their mouths. almost the same skin tone. Our iconic one is now able to manifest mystical energy weapons and armor much like the iconic zealots... Granted, Kasatha have an extra set of arms and lack the cool digitigrade feet but beyond that they are Protoss in appearance. They seem more alike than they are different in my opininon at least.

Torbyne wrote:

lordofthemax wrote:

Kharn the Betrayer wrote:

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

Thri-kreen are awesome, but we already have one 4-armed race (which, fun fact, a lot of the community believes was based on le thri-kreen). Two 4-armed races would just be kinda dumb.

Well, Thri-kreen and Protoss equally. Making the iconic Solarion a Kasatha kind of makes the Protoss heritage pop a little more.

Kasatha don't really look a thing like warhammer eldar, which is what Protoss heritage really is. Space Elves

Since when were Protoss space elves? Space scions/mystics doesn't mean that they were based on or meant to be space elves. Elves were nature freaks, Protoss were fine with blowing up planets.

Also, in case anyone didn't know: Kasatha were in pathfinder, and aren't original to Starfinder. They WERE introduced in a sci-fi themed adventure setting (iron gods), but that doesn't mean they were originally imagined as a space-faring race. For this reason, while their Starfinder artwork and culture/armor/etc. have some inspiration from the protoss, I don't think that they were an inspiration for the original race. I could be wrong, open to arguments here. Just voicing my thoughts.

[Kasatha] WERE introduced in a sci-fi themed adventure setting (iron gods), but that doesn't mean they were originally imagined as a space-faring race.

TECHNICALLY, they were introduced as an example use of the Race Builder in the ARG.

Watch me have my dates off, and Iron Gods came first

lordofthemax wrote:

[Kasatha] WERE introduced in a sci-fi themed adventure setting (iron gods), but that doesn't mean they were originally imagined as a space-faring race.

TECHNICALLY, they were introduced as an example use of the Race Builder in the ARG.

Watch me have my dates off, and Iron Gods came first

Advanced Race Guide came out over 2 years beforehand. To be fair though, I think it was that river book that revealed them as aliens. The ARG doesn't reference their alien origins though for sure. But they still look pretty alien anyways, at least to me. Might be me judging them on later art though. Might be influencing my judgement on this earlier piece. I don't remember seeing them and thinking they were alien. Just that they were weird and awesome. I think it WAS Iron Gods that gave away their origin. To me anyways.

The ARG races were originally just examples... until they got placed in a Bestiary. Then they had to find a place for them in the setting. ^_^

Would like to see a PC race that is not Humanoid in form (the Shirren are apparently technically non-Humanoid, but they still have an approximation of Humanoid form, as did that supposedly amoeboid race in Alternity). Now, on TV shows and to a fair extent in movies, this is to be expected due to the extreme expense of portraying things that are not of Humanoid form, but Starfinder doesn't have to worry about that (yet -- if Starfinder gets enough fame to make it to the movies, then we celebrate having the potential for that problem).

Voss wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

lordofthemax wrote:

Kharn the Betrayer wrote:

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

Thri-kreen are awesome, but we already have one 4-armed race (which, fun fact, a lot of the community believes was based on le thri-kreen). Two 4-armed races would just be kinda dumb.

Well, Thri-kreen and Protoss equally. Making the iconic Solarion a Kasatha kind of makes the Protoss heritage pop a little more.

Kasatha don't really look a thing like warhammer eldar, which is what Protoss heritage really is. Space Elves

Since when were Protoss space elves? Space scions/mystics doesn't mean that they were based on or meant to be space elves.

.

Development. Starcraft and Warcraft were going to be licensed games for warhammer 40k and warhammer fantasy, but games workshop said no. So a few things got altered, and Protoss got featureless alien heads and the space marines became convict rednecks.

And blizzard made a lot more money, and didn't have to pay licensing fees.

Would like to see a PC race that is not Humanoid in form (the Shirren are apparently technically non-Humanoid, but they still have an approximation of Humanoid form, as did that supposedly amoeboid race in Alternity). Now, on TV shows and to a fair extent in movies, this is to be expected due to the extreme expense of portraying things that are not of Humanoid form, but Starfinder doesn't have to worry about that (yet -- if Starfinder gets enough fame to make it to the movies, then we celebrate having the potential for that problem).

We'll get that; it just won't be in the core races. It's one thing to provide non-humanoid options, and another to push it on all GMs by making it core. In Pathfinder, you can play a native outsider, but it isn't presented off the bat to new GMs who'd need to worry about Enlarge Person interaction or how Disguise Self works with them.

Pardon if this is somewhere else and I didn't see it, but does anyone know of a pronunciation guide? I'm pretty sure I can handle "human" and "android" just fine, my Southern accent aside. And even kasatha, lashunta, vesk, shirren, and ysoki seem straightforward, but I want to make sure. ("so-key" or "î-so-key", for example.)

I figure it'd be yeh-SO-key

I've been pronouncing it sort of like "Ee-So-Key". I'd love to know official though. Actually, I might have heard the pronunciation before, but I probably didn't like, register it. I think the rest of them are way more straightforward though.

Listen to the interview with Sutter in one of the posts on this board. He pronounces everything

I've been pronouncing it sort of like "Ee-So-Key". I'd love to know official though. Actually, I might have heard the pronunciation before, but I probably didn't like, register it. I think the rest of them are way more straightforward though.

I pronounce it this way, as well.

am i weird for thinking it was "Yee-So-Key"?

Okay, I just checked the most recent interview with James Sutter with Nerdarchy and at the 25:33 mark he starts listing off the races with what sound like:

Keh-SAH-thah
yeh-SO-key
leh-SHOON-tah
VESK
SHEAR-en

I was right. Where's my cookie? ;)

I was right. Where's my cookie? ;)

Thank you Odraude! But your cookie is in another castle thread!

Using oxford pronunciation system here.
"Ysoki" is asian in origin, and likewise the y at the beginning probably makes an i sound, making the word /isoʊki:/.
Vesk is probably like vest, but with a k instead of a t (/vesk/)
Shirren i think is /ʃiren/
Kasatha I've been pronouncing /kʌsæθʌ/ or /kæsæθʌ/, I've been using both
Lashunta i think is /lɑːʃ uːntʌ/.
I'm pretty bad about dropping my soft a's into u's, so I may have put in this ʌ where it doesn't actually belong. Hope this helps.

EDIT: I put Ysoki down wrong, I didn't see the above posts till after I posted this.

Using oxford pronunciation system here.

"Ysoki" is asian in origin, and likewise the y at the beginning probably makes an i sound, making the word /isoʊki:/.
Vesk is probably like vest, but with a k instead of a t (/vesk/)
Shirren i think is /ʃiren/
Kasatha I've been pronouncing /kʌsæθʌ/ or /kæsæθʌ/, I've been using both
Lashunta i think is /lɑːʃ uːntʌ/.
I'm pretty bad about dropping my soft a's into u's, so I may have put in this ʌ where it doesn't actually belong. Hope this helps.

... How does your keyboard make all those funny little shapes?

Using oxford pronunciation system here.

"Ysoki" is asian in origin, and likewise the y at the beginning probably makes an i sound, making the word /isoʊki:/.
Vesk is probably like vest, but with a k instead of a t (/vesk/)
Shirren i think is /ʃiren/
Kasatha I've been pronouncing /kʌsæθʌ/ or /kæsæθʌ/, I've been using both
Lashunta i think is /lɑːʃ uːntʌ/.
I'm pretty bad about dropping my soft a's into u's, so I may have put in this ʌ where it doesn't actually belong. Hope this helps.

EDIT: I put Ysoki down wrong, I didn't see the above posts till after I posted this.

Dude, I can't even read what you're typing, much less pronounce it. If anything, you have confused me where I once had clarity.

Which is the very definition of a koan. Congrats, you are one step closer to enlightenment :-)

Dude, I can't even read what you're typing, much less pronounce it. If anything, you have confused me where I once had clarity.

... How does your keyboard make all those funny little shapes?

I said at the beginning it's oxford pronunciation system. Look up a guide for it, it's a lot more specific than spelling things out. Easier than it looks.

I didn't think anybody outside of Wikipedia actually knew what that stuff was.

I didn't think anybody outside of Wikipedia actually knew what that stuff was.

It's used in most dictionaries, and it's basically required in order to attemd oxford. (that last part I made up)

I really like all of the new core races and I can't wait to read the iconic's backstories. I don't really have a favorite right now.

Tengu are a "Core" race in my pathfinder games and will absolutely be a "Core" race in my Starfinder games. I'm also adapting the Changelings from Eberron to Starfinder as a featured race because what would a sci-fantasy game be without a race of shapeshifters?

I can't wait to introduce the players to the Dhampire assassins of Eox's Bone Sages.

SM

Tengu are a "Core" race in my pathfinder games and will absolutely be a "Core" race in my Starfinder games.
SM

you, sir, are my hero.

lordofthemax wrote:

Using oxford pronunciation system here.

"Ysoki" is asian in origin, and likewise the y at the beginning probably makes an i sound, making the word /isoʊki:/.
Vesk is probably like vest, but with a k instead of a t (/vesk/)
Shirren i think is /ʃiren/
Kasatha I've been pronouncing /kʌsæθʌ/ or /kæsæθʌ/, I've been using both
Lashunta i think is /lɑːʃ uːntʌ/.
I'm pretty bad about dropping my soft a's into u's, so I may have put in this ʌ where it doesn't actually belong. Hope this helps.

... How does your keyboard make all those funny little shapes?

Those are International Phonetic Alphabet symbols.

Kharn the Betrayer wrote:

I like them, but would have preferred something more like the thri-keen as my bug people.

Thri-kreen are awesome, but we already have one 4-armed race (which, fun fact, a lot of the community believes was based on le thri-kreen). Two 4-armed races would just be kinda dumb.

I meant more the lean predatory look they have gong on, but I see your point.

The Vesk being a thing also likely explains why Gorum mysteriously disappeared from the lineup, despite being what you'd think a shoe-in for Starfinder job placement for deities. A Vesk war god sitting on top of an entire star system-spanning empire? I can see why Gorum might have started to feel a little inadequate.

What makes you think Gorum wasn't a vesk all along?

Back on topic, I like the shirren. I was unimpressed with the vesk being another stereotypical muscular warrior race with a code of honor (klingon wannabes). But these guys are different enough to be interesting.

But I do wish they had more legs. I think my first Starfinder PC might be a shirren named Vrusk.

"Ysoki" is asian in origin, and likewise the y at the beginning probably makes an i sound, making the word /isoʊki:/.

While I went back and forth on ih-so-kee vs. yih-so-kee for a while (before deciding on the latter), I just want to point out that ysoki isn't actually Asian (or at least not intentionally)—it was made up purely by me jamming sounds together until I found something I liked. :D

Heh. In the last 4 comments, I have been corrected in three different ways. Well played, Paizo community.

Heh. In the last 4 comments, I have been corrected in three different ways. Well played, Paizo community.

And it was even fairly gentle!

So if the male of the species is the father, and the female is the mother, what does that make the host? Just parent? Huther/hither/hether? Or simply hostess?I like the latter, despite the traditional meaning being for a woman

Given the type of connections that they have to their children, I would probably regard the male and the female parents as co-fathers and the host as the mother.

I went back and forth on ih-so-kee vs. yih-so-kee for a while (before deciding on the latter), I just want to point out that ysoki isn't actually Asian (or at least not intentionally)—it was made up purely by me jamming sounds together until I found something I liked. :D

{rolls 1 on Sense Motive check} Ah ha! Sutter stealth announces Phonicsjammer Wordfinder hardcover coming 2018.

Given the type of connections that they have to their children, I would probably regard the male and the female parents as co-fathers and the host as the mother.

In the _Alien Nation_ TV show, the Tenctonese had a 'third gender' called [Binnaum](http://aliennation.wikia.com/wiki/Binnaum) who take part in the reproductive process but do not contribute genetic material or carry pregnancies. They have masculine traits like the Gannaum (such as greater upper-body strength, deeper voices, and so on) and are treated as masculine by humans but their cranium-patterns have larger spots.

I hear that Ed is one of the most common larval names.

In all seriousness this is what I want to play

KingOfAnything wrote:

RogueMortal wrote:

Seriously, all I can see shirren doing is causing problems because "You're not my host! Don't tell me what to do!" Though I suppose the "gets along with everyone and puts the group first" is a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too way around that.

Just don't give them direct orders, and you'd be fine. Phrase everything as a choice between two superficially different options. The same as dealing with young children.

Nice. :)

Anyone have stat line guesses?

Here is mine:

Dex: +2
Char: +2
Wis: -2

All Round Vision
Low Light Vision
+2 to Perception
+1 Natural Armour
Telepathy
Scent

Why would a bug race have a +2 to Cha? Those stats seem a little unbalanced. I would think no physical bonuses. But a plus to Int since they seem to be a smart race. Good mechanics.

They're super friendly, telepathic bugs!

It was already confirmed they have Dwarven stats, blindsense, telepathy, and a daily d20 reroll.

Shirren stats are +2 CON/+2 WIS/-2 CHA, based on pictures from the Paizocon presentation. From that same image we know that Shirren have Blindsense, Communalism (1/day when an ally is within 10', roll an attack or skill check twice and take the higher result), Cultural Fascination (+2 Culture & Diplomacy checks), & Limited Telepathy.

Nice, where can I find the stats for the other races? I am super curious.

They haven't been fully released yet. We only know what we know about Shirren because of reports from the presentation.

More photos are showing up all the time though, so we are likely to find more information soon!