Also the new versions of NE, Breakout, and Cosmic Crisis just dropped.
The biggest change appears to be the loss of a formal lair and the fact that players start at seasoned.
Other changes.
Return of the Servitor and Heartless hindrances.
Not much else that is player facing.
Thoughts on being bumped to Seasoned?
It seems like we have enough people with different kinds of powers that another PC would not be *necessary*, but I'm not against getting another one.
Suddenly becoming Seasoned sounds attractive, but would require a lot of work, picking Edges, bumping up Attributes, and allocating new SPP to our builds (we do get extra SPP at regular intervals, yes? A few with every Advance, or a lump sum with every Rank increase?). That might be a lot for those not really familiar with SW.
I assume you'd scale the combats up appropriately, so I'm comfortable staying where we are, as long as the Advancements come fairly frequently.
I can go either way on these issues. I would be happy to spend the time upgrading to seasoned, but I understand that might be a straw too far for some just getting used to things.
I think generally with supers campaign, more players means it is more likely we won't have a fatal hole in the types of things we can deal with.
Let's leave everything be until we've played out this scenario and then make changes if needed/wanted.
I'm for bumping up. Perhaps an advance after every mission until we catch up to where they expect us to be?
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I assume you'd scale the combats up appropriately, so I'm comfortable staying where we are, as long as the Advancements come fairly frequently.
I also think this.
Indeed, betimes I think that the very idea of a "level" is somewhat transitory. Unless the level involves a kind of power with a multiplicative or status effect, then, what matter it if you do twice as much damage, since the GM is just going to have the monsters have twice as many hitpoints?
Hence, no, I'm against it.
Also, I mourn the loss of a formal lair. I wonder why they got rid of it? For an urban-based team setting, of course they'll need a common living quarters, so this seems to create a problem where once there was a solution.
I don't know enough to have an opinion.
I do like the idea of having a lair. Lairs are cool. Wouldn't want to lose that. Not that you suggested we would lose it.
It seems like we have enough people with different kinds of powers that another PC would not be *necessary*, but I'm not against getting another one.
... we do get extra SPP at regular intervals, yes?...
Actually the game does not presume this. RAW you get the power points for your tier at chargen and that is it barring stuff like the Lair bonus.
I am committed to giving you more powerpoints, it is on the campaign page and everything. Exactly how I am still undecided. Part of me wants to make it story dependent, like the lair. But part of me wants the simple answer of:Power Edge: More power points. WC, Seasoned, AB Superpowers, Once per rank. Gain 5 powerpoints when you take this edge.
Pro: Easier on my end. Gives control to the players.
Cons: Mechanistic. Promotes people thinking abut "builds" and min-maxing.
RE:Lair. I think they cut it for space. With the lair info in SPC3 they could cut the bit where the players get a Lair and the bit where they say getting a Lair is optional if the players do not want to play "Friends, the one with the alien invasion."
You can still have a lair or not as you wish but it is no longer emphasized at the start.
So to recap:
Imagine: yes on fresh blood. No on bumping to Seasoned.
Psiclops: uncommitted on fresh blood. Soft yes on bumping(?).
Karma: Soft positive on bumping and fresh blood. Solid recommendation to kick the can until after Milk Run.
Doctor Toxic No answer on new blood. Solid yes on bump via accelerated advancement.
Savant no opinion.
Ok, looks like no one is opposed to fresh blood (except possibly Doc Toxic?) so I will reopen the recruiting thread soon-ish. Scream if you do not want me to do this.
As far as bumping I am leaning towards a yes. Frankly because it solves a behind the scenes pacing issue and so that I don't have to do as much work making sure the set piece encounters do not turn you immediately into raspberry jam. Just a reminder SW never heard the phrase 'level appropriate encounter'. Doc's idea of short term accelerated advancement sounds like it would work.
Everyone 2
Please let me know if you have an opinion on gaining more power points.
I am having difficulty making a decision here.
The schemes on offer are:
1) Nope. Be happy with what you have. You greedy ingrates. :&)
2) Power points edge.
3) Mysterious arrival of points due to circumstances beyond your control.
4) The gm is an idiot. Here is how to do this. i.e you have an idea that I have not listed.
I'm neutral on fresh blood. It's a lot of work, and some will immediately drop out.
I am definitely against 1 and 2. With SW, you have so many choices at advancement that making PP one of them makes it really hard not to choose that a lot.
I like 3 - it's a little like milestone advancement.
I propose 4a (since we may get several ideas) Every advance comes with 1-3 power points. There's a continual growth there.
For that matter 4b would be to get a bigger chunk of points every rank. this may be better for people who want a big power, but provides new stuff less often.
RAW you get the power points for your tier at chargen and that is it...
The Rising Stars option allows the GM to give the PC's more SPP as they advance. Altho it advocates starting the PC's with *less* than the listed SPP for the game's Power Level, and doesn't suggest a game mechanic for getting the additional SPP...
The SWD version of the SPC allows PC's to take the *Core* rule's "Power Points Edge" to get 5 extra SPP (the SWD version didn't really distinguish between "magic" PP and "super" PP very well). This is identical to your Super Power Point Edge idea.
In my NE campaign, the PC's started with the given SPP, and I think I gave 2 SPP per Advance in addition to whatever else the Advance was used for. If you don't want the Edge, you could make it 1 SPP per Advance. You could justify this as "the more we use our powers, the more power we get", much like a bodybuilder gains muscle mass by exercising his muscles. OTOH, there's not much we could do with 1 SPP at a time, so we'd probably just "bank" them until we could buy whatever we want.
On the other other hand, my PC's started at 20 SPP, and we're already at 50(!), so I *needed* to give them extra SPP as the game progressed.
Ok, I've talked myself into voting for an "Extra SPP" Edge as you described it. You could still use the justification I suggested, tho. However...
Since we're already at 50 SPP, depending on how many Ranks you advance us before the game ends, that could give us 20-25 MORE SPP, putting us into Power Level IV or Power Level V territory - are you willing to deal with that much power in the PC's?
The map is still at the link I gave in the discussion section a while back. I'll update it with the information given recently, but it will probably have a section that is at a larger scale showing the transport in relation to the ambush point.
As for options discussed above, I'll leave it ultimately up the GM. This weekend will be busy as I finish up once class and get ready for a new class. I'd still like to play out this encounter with our characters as they are now. Then add any new levels or power points after that.
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Just a reminder SW never heard the phrase 'level appropriate encounter'.
I'm beginning to get a vibe that this game is a very hard game, and the GM has no aversion to a PC curb-stomping everything, simply because that is not possible. I'm inclined to agree, since ZenFox, the most veteran SW player amongst us, made, presumably, the most powerful, quasi-broken PC he could think of, but it has not broken the game. Far from it.
I too have worried about this character somehow being viewed as OP (for reasons that have already been covered and do NOT need to be revisited). Given the vibe that we are on the "under-powered" side of the curve, apparently, I will release this caution.
This is a refreshing mindset and it destroys the barriers I had to increasing power points.
Speaking of which....
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Ok, I've talked myself into voting for an "Extra SPP" Edge as you described it.
I was thrown for a loop here. From all the words before this one it looked like an argument against an Edge.
I agree with DocTox: "With SW, you have so many choices at advancement that making PP one of them makes it really hard not to choose that a lot."
This is true. Having an Extra PP Edge is just an Edge Tax in different form.
I greatly like Zen's first idea (and reiterated by DocTox) of just giving 1-3 PP per advance.
I'd be happy with 1-3 SPP per advance, it's just that I think we won't be able to "power up" significantly each advance, so we'll be "banking" our SPP until we have enough to buy what we want. 5 SPP at a time probably gives us something to add immediately.
Also, just 1 SPP per advance is 4 SPP per Rank, basically equivalent to the "5 extra SPP" Edge that we would only be able to take once per Rank (which could give us up to 20-25 extra SPP by the end of the game). So 2 or 3 SPP per advance would put us *way* past Power Level V territory.
Also, you said I haven't broken the game yet, but I haven't been in a close-quarters-with-multiple-opponents fight yet, and I *might* just break that...
I agree with DocTox: "With SW, you have so many choices at advancement that making PP one of them makes it really hard not to choose that a lot."
This is true. Having an Extra PP Edge is just an Edge Tax in different form.
Is that because PP are better than other things an advance will buy? I can see how that could be true.
SPP allow you to increase your superpowers, while a "plain" Advancement can :
1. Allow you to increase an Attribute (Strength, Vigor, etc.) by one die.
2. Allow you to increase the die value of one or two Skills.
3. Buy an Edge, which can improve many different aspects of your PC.
In regular games, these are important because they're what define the overall "power" of your PC. But in a Supers game (especially in this one, where we're at 50 SPP already), your superpowers overwhelmingly define your PC.
ALL - please note, you could only take the "Extra 5 SPP" Edge (if the GM offers it) *once* per Rank, or once every 4 Advancements, at best.
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Is that because PP are better than other things an advance will buy? I can see how that could be true.I agree with DocTox: "With SW, you have so many choices at advancement that making PP one of them makes it really hard not to choose that a lot."
This is true. Having an Extra PP Edge is just an Edge Tax in different form.
To wit: 2 SPP can buy an Edge, or increase an attribute, making 5 SPP effectively 2.5 Advancements.
Hmmm 20/25 sp is a bit much. I'm leaving this at plot related/ GM Fiat for the moment and think about this some more.
Just a reminder SW never heard the phrase 'level appropriate encounter'.I'm beginning to get a vibe that this game is a very hard game, and the GM has no aversion to a PC curb-stomping everything, simply because that is not possible...
I don't know about that. You are going through these Slashers like a hot knife.
Just a thought : if 2 SPP can buy an Edge, than it makes sense that a "Extra SPP" Edge should provide 2 SPP. But you don't have to hand them out that frequently (once per Rank would only give us 8-10 extra SPP by the end of the game), and even taper off whenever you want...
Just a thought : if 2 SPP can buy an Edge, than it makes sense that a "Extra SPP" Edge should provide 2 SPP. But you don't have to hand them out that frequently (once per Rank would only give us 8-10 extra SPP by the end of the game), and even taper off whenever you want...
That could work. You are due about 10 spp or so over the rest of the game. I was thinking of doing this in 2-3 bumps based on you hitting story beats but if folks want more control this could work.
Proposed rule: Power Edge: More Power! Seasoned, once per rank until Legendary. Gain 3 Super power points. Taking this edge opts you out of most further story based SPP gains.
If you go with this edge you are looking at +12 Spp max by your first Legendary advance. Not taking this edge will net you +10 SPP at the same milestone. The difference is the story based SPP do not cost edges to get.
Note: There still might be story based ways to get SPP that this does not bar you from. I do not have any planned at the moment so do not count on any being available.
Thoughts?
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Okay, buncha stuff buncha stuff.
1) I continue to loath feat taxes and all its evil works. Hence I would prefer story-based rewards. This also makes sure that no one faces analysis-paralysis because of it, and it helps put everyone on an even footing without fear of someone's build just being better optimized.
2) My action depends on Psi's target, so Imma pause a moment.
3) which ones are the ones I am controlling? Could I please get a tag on those? Obviously I don't want to kill those, and if those are killed from other things I am able to replace it.
4) I take no Glory in killing the slashers. If we can't walk over them we have no business even thinking about the V'Sori.
5) I think Psiclops should chase after Karma right away. She might need help and he is the best to give it.
6) There is no number 6.
7) Do we have a preference for Telepathy? I suppose I can just say I'm "Listening" or maintaining telepathic communication with everyone during missions. (But not all the time. Then you'd hear too many of my thoughts. You...probably don't want that.) I sort of thought you guys would want to use comms all the time but it looks like y'all want Telepathy. That's fine, and I guess we should hammer that out.
Okay, buncha stuff buncha stuff.
1) I continue to loath feat taxes and all its evil works. Hence I would prefer story-based rewards. This also makes sure that no one faces analysis-paralysis because of it, and it helps put everyone on an even footing without fear of someone's build just being better optimized.
Re Edge:That is one of the reasons I am thinking of making it optional. You get control and a slice more power but that has a price. I actually see the story version as a hair more optimal. But the price there is lack of control and a slower power drip.
Re Optimized: I am open to correction on this but, I do not think the optimization monster stalks SW to the extent it does Pathfinder 1.
2) My action depends on Psi's target, so Imma pause a moment.
Check, no problem
3) which ones are the ones I am controlling? Could I please get a tag on those? Obviously I don't want to kill those, and if those are killed from other things I am able to replace it.
Sorry my bad. One of your newfound friends in in the truck cab and the other has taken cover behind the open driver side/downstream door of the pickup.
4) I take no Glory in killing the slashers. If we can't walk over them we have no business even thinking about the V'Sori.
5) I think Psiclops should chase after Karma right away. She might need help and he is the best to give it.
You have a van. Just saying.
6) There is no number 6.
7) Do we have a preference for Telepathy? I suppose I can just say I'm "Listening" or maintaining telepathic communication with everyone during missions. (But not all the time. Then you'd hear too many of my thoughts. You...probably don't want that.) I sort of thought you guys would want to use comms all the time but it looks like y'all want Telepathy. That's fine, and I guess we should hammer that out.
You can listen in constantly if you want to rules wise but there might be RP effects. I considered pre-spending/forcing you to take the Switchboard mod for telepathy. That seems to be how folks are trying to use your power.
Karma has the disadvantage of not being able to use comms while she is intangible, which will be a lot of the time in encounters. I took telepathy so she could communicate that way when intangible, but it is short range and won't help when she is beyond range.
It might help when people use telepathy to indicate the range so players can tell if their PC gets the message or not.
I plan on increasing the range of Karma's telepathy as she has the SPP to do so.
The difference is the story based SPP do not cost edges to get.
Our first 5 SPP boost came contingent on living in the lair. Will future story-based SPP's come with similar contingencies? If so, will those contingencies be relatively easy to meet? These points will help me determine which version of getting extra SPP I'll want to use.
How can you "split" extra SPP as coming from either an Edge OR being story-based (because obviously you don't want us using both)? The first time I take SPP from an Edge, does that mean I'm forever barred from getting story-based SPP? What if I take the next two story-based SPP, but then use the Edge? Does my previous extra SPP disappear? This point seems to need more definition. <time passes> Suggestion : if you give out in-story 3 SPP per Rank, then we can decide each time whether to accept the contingencies, or use the Edge on our next Advancement, and all my questions go away.
Regarding telepathy, I didn't understand how Imagine's TP worked. I thought we agreed in a past in-PC debate that she would keep it always on (but I have a *really* bad memory). I also didn't even think about TP having a range (which obviously it would).
Our first 5 SPP boost came contingent on living in the lair. Will future story-based SPP's come with similar contingencies? ...
Maybe, but I think you are overthinking this. The Lair Spp's come from having A lair not necessarily having THIS lair. The points do not come from the building but from the confidence you are a real team with a real secret lair. Should you lose the Meat Factory you will loose access to those points until you reestablish a home base.
Future story awards may or may not have similar contingencies. I simply do not know yet. The story is not set in stone so I cannot state with confidence what will trigger the Spp rewards I can only say that the awards will be triggered.
How can you "split" extra SPP as coming from either an Edge OR being story-based (because obviously you don't want us using both)? The first time I take SPP from an Edge, does that mean I'm forever barred from getting story-based SPP? What if I take the next two story-based SPP, but then use the Edge? Does my previous extra SPP disappear? This point seems to need more definition. <time passes> Suggestion : if you give out in-story 3 SPP per Rank, then we can decide each time whether to accept the contingencies, or use the Edge on our next Advancement, and all my questions go away.
Think of the story awards and the edge as being on 2 separate paths. At the moment you take the Power edge you depart the story award path and can never return to it. This has no effect on any previous awards but it is safe to assume that that accepting a story award will prevent you from taking the Power edge for the remainder of that rank to prevent double dipping.
RE: suggestion. I am considering it but my first take is that is is too mechanistic. The dependable zero to hero growth in SW is dealt with via advances. Superpowers are something different. They do not make sense. They are not dependable, an X-factor if you will.
And remember we are talking about 10-12 Spp spread over 3 ranks so not a big deal. This system will change in the future as most per-rank edges or limits change when you hit Legendary and Rank ceases to have any real meaning.
Regarding telepathy, I didn't understand how Imagine's TP worked. I thought we agreed in a past in-PC debate that she would keep it always on (but I have a *really* bad memory). I also didn't even think about TP having a range (which obviously it would).
I remember a discussion but it was inconclusive. Telepathy is a bit of effort in a p-b-p game.
No bites on the new player bait. Looks like we are ourselves for at least a bit.
Is it just me or has this site cooled down even more than the usual summer doldrums? Pity we can't get unique visit or posting rate numbers....
It seems to me that the forums are in a slow death spiral. Things in the virtual gaming discussion space seem to be moving mostly to Discord. I don't love Discord because as far as I can tell it is much harder to search old conversations, which is the big value of the forums. But there aren't very many new games firing up, and not as much interest in the games that are forming.
I've been thinking about starting a new game, and not sure this is the best spot for it.
[b]Savant[b]
Not that is matters at the mo', but where are you getting the reroll on the Focus check? Focus is a Spirit linked trait so Genius does not apply and you you did not have it Boosted so nothing from the Power modifier on your Boost Trait power. What am I missing?
If you were using the Focus roll to Boost Notice then you did succeed. The 4 on the wild die did the job here. Autophobia does not apply because you can see Imagine and (arguably) Doctor Toxic. The autophobia modifier does apply to the wild die. Or rather the modifier applies to whichever die, trait or wild, rolls the higher number. You can look at this as {(best of Trait or wild die) + or - modifier} or {(Trait die + or - minus modifier) (wild die + or - minus modifier) choose the better total} the math works out either way.
Regarding switching J-O-T to Notice you forgot to roll a wild die along with the Smarts check. Ill roll it for you: no effect but the JOT check DOES get a reroll from Genius as it is a Smarts or Smarts linked roll. no raise, drat. This gives you a Notice of (d4 from JOT +1 die Boost) d6.
Not that this matters at all because you do not need to make a Notice to gather stuff from the Slasher. I'm just walking through this so I can understand all the moving parts.
Just me making a mistake. I misread the Boost when I was posting and took something to mean the Focus roll had a re-roll.
Am without power since noon. Will post once power comes back.
Ouch! Hope it gets fixed soon.
Threw up and interest thread for Savage Pathfinder Burnt Offerings in case that peaks your interest.
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Aplogies. It's comin' hot and heavy. It's not just that the dryer went, AND the kids start a new summer camp AND it's been too hot so very very hot AND the car is at the mechanics again AND I seem to have hurt myself somehow, but its all these things together.
So feel free to bot me until I can get things back together.
Imagine I hope things get better soon.
Savant I do not see on your char sheet what powers you bought with the 5 Lair points. These should be separated because they can go away if you loose your lair. Note they are not tied to THIS specific lair the points reflect the confidence you gain from having a formal lair.
Also I do not see any note on how you used your first advance. Could you note that or create an Advancement section somewhere so I can swiftly see how you have progressed?
Afterthought
You are getting thrown in at the deep end a bit. Sorry.
When you build your alias please note exactly how the Lair points were spent, it is possible but unlikely to lose them. And please note how you have used your 2 advances.
PWGM - what's your ruling on taking Background Edges after character creation? Like, I don't know, just maybe for example Elan?
I'll work on my advance in the next few days. I'm at the start of a new term, so I'll be busy for a day or two getting the new class running.
No problem. Enjoy the new class.
PWGM - what's your ruling on taking Background Edges after character creation? Like, I don't know, just maybe for example Elan?
Generally no problem at all. Elan is in the no problem category. Aristocrat, Fame, Rich or something like that will need a a bit of explaining.
For Karma's advance, she'll just increase her agility attribute to d8, which is boosted by the Super Power Attribute power to d10. This will allow increasing her fighting and shooting skills to d10.
For Karma's advance, she'll just increase her agility attribute to d8, which is boosted by the Super Power Attribute power to d10. This will allow increasing her fighting and shooting skills to d10.
Perfect. Thank you for noting your advances so clearly on your sheet.
Small ret-con to the post.
One of the new players I'm working to bring in bailed and the other isn't ready. So ignore the bit about a new person being there. Feel free to grill Savant though.
Everything else stands.
Still want to know if anyone is/has let Omega/Dr.Destruction know about the results of Milk Run.
I just did.
I'll get my profile fixed. Not much background other than being a pretty normal guy.
I got accidentally booted from the campaign so I didn't see updates for a while.
ALL - did we ever decide on a group name? If not, throw out suggestions and click on the Favorite + icon for the posts whose name you like.
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Suggestion for group name: Fugu.
It's short, enigmatic, and derives from the Japanese word for a kind of Sushi that is potentially deadly, containing a deadly neurotoxin.
A slightly longer and more colorful version is torafugu for tiger fugu.
The V-Sori's are not likely to recognize the word, making safer to use in case someone overhears it or discovers it somehow.
Everyone V-Map updated.
It has been ~10 days without word from Imagine. No posts in their other games either. Not ready to write them off but I think we should keep moving if we can.