Items I'm interested in... Ventriloquist's ring
What does Kvit want the Ventriloquist's ring for? What situations do you forsee for Kvit where he is likely to use Deception? Is it for the 1/day Ventriloquism spell?
Given that Cha is usually a dump stat for Wizards (after Str) and Kvit has it at +0, I'm not sure that Deception is his forte. Surely there are better ways for a Wizard to put 60gp to use.
Items I'm interested in... Ventriloquist's ring
What does Kvit want the Ventriloquist's ring for? What situations do you foresee for Kvit where he is likely to use Deception? Is it for the 1/day Ventriloquism spell?
Given that Cha is usually a dump stat for Wizards (after Str) and Kvit has it at +0, I'm not sure that Deception is his forte. Surely there are better ways for a Wizard to put 60gp to use.
If we're to nail down what things we're purchasing I'm going to need some more feedback. Lough says that he's good until he reaches Level 4. I have Kka and Kvit's updates, but I haven't heard much back from Giyozara and Cherry.
Here is what I have so far (with likely items grayed out):
Kka:
80. - Archaic Wayfinder + Dusty Rose Prism Aeon Stone
Kvit:
2.0 - Cost of learning Telekinetic Projectile
60. - Pendant of the Occult
20. - Cantrip Deck
3.0 - Formula for Staff of Fire
10. - Waterproofing Wax
Cherry:
9.0 - Aeon Stone - Dull Gray
6.0 - Ruby Dust - Continual Flame
25. - Flask of Fellowship
Giyozara:
3.5 - Transfer Weapon Potency (+1) to Handwraps
We have 613.7gp plus some 25-30gp of individual funds to spend, depending on what Lough has left over (his profile being rather sparse on detail of that variety).
If we buy just the non-gray stuff, that's 218.6gp
If we buy it all, that's 768.5gp (which we can't afford)
I grayed out Bracelet of Dashing, but if Kka is going to be doing a lot of Tumble Behind to catch people flatfooted, then the +1 might come in handy.
At some point Cherry might also need to upgrade to Healer's Tools - Expanded, but that can honestly probably wait.
It isn't something that seems to come up for Cherry often, mostly because I heal through spells, but the extra bonus will never be completely worthless.
PS does anyone else want a Continual Flame torch, or other object?
Items I'm interested in... Ventriloquist's ringWhat does Kvit want the Ventriloquist's ring for? What situations do you foresee for Kvit where he is likely to use Deception? Is it for the 1/day Ventriloquism spell?
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@Kka: Since his school specialty is illusion, there are a few illusion spells that require deception or performance rolls. Mainly Illusory Creature or Illusory Disguise (though disguise probably won't get much use). Then at 6th level I plan to get Convincing Illusion which requires a deception check to succeed (which can work with any illusion).
Its lower on the priority list, but I think it might still be worth getting at some point. Definitely around 6th level. But I'm open to the discussion.
*****
@Cherry: Assuming we can hide the light from it, Kvit would like one. He does have Low-Light Vision so it can be low on the priority list.
Any more input on where to enter level 3 from? So far I've seen one vote for D, one anti-vote for D, and one vote for B.
I’m confused. What is Gyozara getting?
I’m confused. What is Gyozara getting?
Giyozara is currently slated to get some +1 Handwraps of Mighty Blows, plus he keeps the Wand of L1:Magic Missile we picked up in the dungeon.
Is there something more he would like?
Any more input on where to enter level 3 from? So far I've seen one vote for D, one anti-vote for D, and one vote for B.
Just to be clear, I'm not particularly attached to any specific entrance and will happily go down B if that makes it easier to decide.
@Kka: Since his school specialty is illusion, there are a few illusion spells that require deception or performance rolls. Mainly Illusory Creature or Illusory Disguise (though disguise probably won't get much use). Then at 6th level I plan to get Convincing Illusion which requires a deception check to succeed (which can work with any illusion).
Its lower on the priority list, but I think it might still be worth getting at some point. Definitely around 6th level. But I'm open to the discussion.
Ah, gotcha. Did you know this when you originally picked your ability scores? In retrospect it might have been better to put those Con points into Cha. At least you'll be able to boost your Cha at 5th level.
@Cherry: Assuming we can hide the light from it, Kvit would like one. He does have Low-Light Vision so it can be low on the priority list.
According to the description of Aeon Stone, When you invest one of these precisely shaped crystals, the stone orbits your head instead of being worn on your body. You can stow an aeon stone with an Interact action, and an orbiting stone can be snatched out of the air with a successful Disarm action against you. A stowed or removed stone remains invested, but its effects are suppressed until you return it to orbit your head again.
So you can invest it in the morning and stick it in your pocket until you need it. An interact action is all you need to grab it and send it orbiting around your head.
I can add it to the purchase list (it's only 15gp), but with Lough, Cherry and Giyozara running around with light spells, putting one on Kvit as well might be overkill.
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He could stand in for the familiar Cherry is getting at Level 4 for the time-being.I kind of want to keep Borbo around, because he's fun, but he's kinda done with life. If you don't kill him, I'll allow anyone who dies/wants to reroll a complete rebuild as a Poppet ancestry. :P
(As far as I can tell, Borbo hasn't been on the lower levels, so he has no knowledge to spoil.)
And furthermore, it's not so much a "permanent" decision as it might initially seem...
@Kka I didn't realize how useful Deception would be until after we started. That's why I had to retrain diplomacy into deception. I will probably at least get the CHA boost at lvl 5 like you said though.
The continual flame thing is more of a nice to have, it can be at the bottom of the list. I didn't realize Lough also had the light spell.
@Lough Speaking of, find any spells you like.?
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If you want, you can switch some stats around to boost your Charisma. Don't want to hold you to choices made half a year ago.
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If you want, you can switch some stats around to boost your Charisma. Don't want to hold you to choices made half a year ago.
I think that would be great! I'll switch my CON boosts to CHA. That'll give me a +2 at least.
...
”Yeah, we have to find out what happened to Otari. The person, not. . . not the town.”
I feel like I find this funnier than it's meant to be every time
Kvit's sheet should all be ready, barring any last minute/final group purchase decisions.
Given the lack of additional input, I assume that the following is all we'll be purchasing before we head down to the next level:
Kka:
80. - Archaic Wayfinder + Dusty Rose Prism Aeon Stone
Kvit:
2.0 - Cost of learning Telekinetic Projectile
60. - Pendant of the Occult
20. - Cantrip Deck
3.0 - Formula for Staff of Fire
10. - Waterproofing Wax
Cherry:
9.0 - Aeon Stone - Dull Gray
6.0 - Ruby Dust - Continual Flame
25. - Flask of Fellowship
Giyozara:
0.0 - Transfer Weapon Potency (+1) to Handwraps
I checked the rules to see what it takes to transfer a rune from a stone to a weapon and found that the Price of the transfer is 10% of the rune’s Price, unless transferring from a runestone, which is free. So that saves us 3.5gp right there.
Total: 215 gp
Remaining Cash: 398.7 gp
Doesn't one of the Aeon stones, or its resonance, eliminate the need for rations?
Eventually that might be a good idea for Cherry, once we start spending more than a day underground.
Doesn't one of the Aeon stones, or its resonance, eliminate the need for rations?
Eventually that might be a good idea for Cherry, once we start spending more than a day underground.
That's a Clear Spindle Aeon Stone. Unfortunately, a Level 7 item, so it may be a while before we can get our hands on one of them.
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We should also start thinking about giving the front liners striking runes. We are level 3 after all.
Striking runes are Level 4 items. We'll use the money left over from this time around to buy some of those after we clear out the next level. Then, at level 5 we get +1 Armor Potency runes. That's pretty much it for fundamental weapon/armor runes. After that we're looking at Property Runes. Given that we're likely to be dealing with a lot of undead, we should probably invest in Ghost Touch runes at Level 4, and Disrupting runes at Level 5. Resilient runes at Level 8 might also be a good idea.
Doesn't one of the Aeon stones, or its resonance, eliminate the need for rations?
Eventually that might be a good idea for Cherry, once we start spending more than a day underground.
That's good thinking. That or carry around a lot of dirt until level 7 items at least!
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We should also start thinking about giving the front liners striking runes. We are level 3 after all.Striking runes are Level 4 items. We'll use the money left over from this time around to buy some of those after we clear out the next level. Then, at level 5 we get +1 Armor Potency runes. That's pretty much it for fundamental weapon/armor runes. After that we're looking at Property Runes. Given that we're likely to be dealing with a lot of undead, we should probably invest in Ghost Touch runes at Level 4, and Disrupting runes at Level 5. Resilient runes at Level 8 might also be a good idea.
This isn’t PFS, and Otari is big enough we should be able to buy them here. Would be good to have our frontlines doing 2d12 damage, especially given how tough some of our fights have been.
This isn’t PFS, and Otari is big enough we should be able to buy them here. Would be good to have our frontlines doing 2d12 damage, especially given how tough some of our fights have been.
I don’t think that settlement size is the issue (especially with Absalom just down the road). Until the GM tells us that we are not limited by item level in purchases, I’m assuming that such a level limit exists. He has given us access to uncommon items, so that at least is not an issue.
Exactly what Kka said. Item levels exist for a reason, and I plan to stick to them to make sure I don't accidentally turbocharge you.
Also, I'm still not entirely sure which stairs you want to take down to level 3. Two people expressed interest in D, but one said they'd prefer to not take D, so I'd like a bit more input on that front.
Exactly what Kka said. Item levels exist for a reason, and I plan to stick to them to make sure I don't accidentally turbocharge you.
Also, I'm still not entirely sure which stairs you want to take down to level 3. Two people expressed interest in D, but one said they'd prefer to not take D, so I'd like a bit more input on that front.
I will switch my vote to D. As long as we're all prepared when we go down.
Also, I'm still not entirely sure which stairs you want to take down to level 3. Two people expressed interest in D, but one said they'd prefer to not take D, so I'd like a bit more input on that front.
After a closer look at the map and overlaying it with the map section that Graulgust gave us of the next level, it appears that B & C are those long stairs that lead to the east-west hallway that ends in that octagonal room with the secret door. I've temporarily created a new slide that shows the overlay so that you can see what I mean.
There is also a set of stairs on the southern edge of that map that seem to line up with D. We cannot see the bottom of the A stairs, but they seem to come out somewhere behind the secret door or a little north of it.
The bottom line is that it probably doesn't matter which set of stairs we take as we'll pretty much end up in the same place either way. In the interests of avoiding unnecessary backtracking, D is probably the best entrance to take. It looks like the next level down is shifted north somewhat relative to the second level as that long hallway on the north side of level 3 is actually off the top of the level 2 map.
I'm willing to metagame a little and say 'take whichever stairs lead us to section on of the basement'
Oh, but we also had Orari's ghost, maybe we should follow him?
I'm willing to metagame a little and say 'take whichever stairs lead us to section on of the basement'
Oh, but we also had Orari's ghost, maybe we should follow him?
Good point. I had totally forgotten that. (Assuming it's still around)
Also, do you want me to start leading you to the next part? I feel like most of the inter-party RP is over by now.
Also, do you want me to start leading you to the next part? I feel like most of the inter-party RP is over by now.
That's fine with me. I'll assume that we went ahead and bought the stuff I mentioned in THIS post from Tuesday and I will update Kka's profile accordingly.
I think I am done.
I was updating Kka's templates for the Archaic Wayfinder & Dusty Rose Prism Aeon Stone and ran into a couple of issues.
1) Unlike a regular Wayfinder that merely needs to be worn (ie. requiring no hands) to be activated, an Archaic Wayfinder has to be held in 1 hand. This means that the person wanting to cast the stored cantrip (in Kka's case, most likely Telekinetic Projectile) must have the wayfinder in a hand to do so.
This does not affect the Dusty Rose Prism Aeon Stone functionality as it merely needs to be worn to be used. So, the resonant powered Shield cantrip can be activated without having to have the Archaic Wayfinder in hand to do so.
2) Now comes the tricky bit. The description of the Archaic Wayfinder is potentially ambiguous as to how the stored cantrip is cast. It's description differs in certain ways from that of the other described wayfinders when it comes to casting stored spells. So it is not entirely clear what the RAI might be.
The Archaic Wayfinder mentions the Cast a Spell activity being needed to activate it (ie. You cast a spell you have prepared or in your repertoire). The other wayfinders describe the way the stored spell is cast in different ways (eg. "the wayfinder is targeted by [spell]", "the wayfinder casts [spell]", "you gain the effects of a [spell]", "the wayfinder grants the ability to cast a [spell]"), but in all cases, the spell in question is cast without requiring the holder of the wayfinder to be a spellcaster. It also seems a little odd that it would require a spellcaster capable of casting said cantrip to activate the wayfinder and cast it. Why bother when said spellcaster can just cast the cantrip without the wayfinder? Wierd.
The stuff I've read and many of the people I've talked to about it feel that RAI on the Archaic Wayfinder is supposed to be the same as for the other wayfinders but that the description was somehow not updated to match. But others feel that the Activate Cast a Spell entry of the Archaic Wayfinder makes it clear that by RAW a spellcaster is required to cast it and that the description would have been updated or errata'd by now if that were not the case. Given this vagueness, they all recommend that one ask one's GM how they want to handle it.
TL;DR: @GM Kwinten, can Kka cast the cantrip stored in her Archaic Wayfinder?
If not, then no big deal. I'll switch the Archaic Wayfinder out for a regular (handless) Wayfinder and she'll go back to using her shortbow in her now freed up hand.
The way I interpret it, it grants the Cast a Spell activity to whoever is holding the Wayfinder. Otherwise it seems oddly restrictive to only let spellcasters benefit from it.
Basically, everyone can try to Cast a Spell (imitating the hand gestures and pronunciation), but not everyone has the magic available (or basic knowledge of the fundamentals behind it) to make it happen. With this Wayfinder, someone else puts the magic in, you just need to do the hand movements. At least, that's how I see it.
Sorry in advance for another long post.
The way I interpret it, it grants the Cast a Spell activity to whoever is holding the Wayfinder. Otherwise it seems oddly restrictive to only let spellcasters benefit from it.
Basically, everyone can try to Cast a Spell (imitating the hand gestures and pronunciation), but not everyone has the magic available (or basic knowledge of the fundamentals behind it) to make it happen. With this Wayfinder, someone else puts the magic in, you just need to do the hand movements. At least, that's how I see it.
I've been digging through the rulebook some more and have come up with the following:
1) The Archaic Wayfinder description includes the entry Activate Cast a Spell.
2) The Activate an Item rules state that if the Activate entry of an item includes Cast a Spell, then the activation requires you to use the Cast a Spell activity to Activate the Item.
3) The spellcasting class descriptions all include a Spellcasting section that includes the line: You can cast spells using the Cast a Spell activity. The spellcasting dedication feats all include the line: You gain the Cast a Spell activity. The Rogue class description does not include this line.
So based on RAW, it is pretty clear that only spellcasters are allowed to Activate said Archaic Wayfinder to cast the stored spell. In PFS games that are limited by RAW, it is thus not allowed for a vanilla Rogue to cast the cantrip stored in an Archaic Wayfinder.
But... it seems a little pointless to only allow spellcasters capable of casting said cantrip without the aid of an Archaic Wayfinder to be the only ones that can do so. It is also odd that it is the only Wayfinder that requires a character to have the Cast a Spell activity to cast the spell stored within it.
This oddity is what leads many GMs to conclude that the RAI for the Archaic Wayfinder does not match the RAW and they thus ignore its Activate Cast a Spell entry to allow the casting of said cantrip by non-spellcasters in their non-PFS games. Others feel that the game designers have had ample opportunity to issue an update or an errata to remove this restriction and the fact that they haven't done so suggests that RAI = RAW in this case.
As much as I'd like Kka to be able to launch Kvit's +9 Telekinetic Projectiles dealing 2d6+4 damage from her Wayfinder (with automatic heightening as Kvit's level increases), all this devil's advocating has convinced me that the game designers don't feel the same way. And to be honest, it does seem a little like it falls into the too good to be true department.
TL;DR: I no longer feel that Kka should be able to cast Kvit's Telekinetic Projectile cantrip from an Archaic Wayfinder and I'm hoping the GM will disallow it so that I don't have to face the temptation to do so :)
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Okay, in that case, Kka, stop trying to cheese the game, I don't want you to cast spells. :P
(As soon as you have access to spells, however... :P)
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Yeah Kka stop trying to break the game!
That does seem like a correct RAW analysis though
Assuming the RAI intention wasn't to allow spellcasters to share a single cantrip with a non-spellcaster. There are still two uses of the archaic Wayfinder.
1) Allow casters of different traditions to share a cantrip. Such as Guidance or Disrupt Undead from Cherry for Kvit or Telekinetic Projectile from Kvit to Cherry.
2) Allow a caster to cast a Cantrip into it that they would not normally use. Like Mage Hand or Message. Allowing them to prepare a more commonly used cantrip in that slot.
If you still want to cast cantrips, Kvit can give you all the attack cantrips from the Cantrip Deck. I mostly got them for the utility cantrips that don't get used often.
Okay, in that case, Kka, stop trying to cheese the game, I don't want you to cast spells. :P
(As soon as you have access to spells, however... :P)
Oh well. It was worth a try. :)
I've downgraded Kka to a regular Wayfinder with just the built-in Light spell and the Dusty Rose Prism Aeon Stone for the innate Shield spell.
Though Kka will happily use magical items to improve her performance, I don't really see her ever becoming an official spellcaster. Plus, it won't be until Level 6 that she can pick up a new archetype, and I've currently got that pencilled in for Dual-Weapon Warrior. She's just have to leave the spellcasting to the smart ones.
Are we not gonna see if Otari’s Spirit Locus rejuvenated and follow that?
Otari's "ghost" went down the C stairs and so ended up either heading West to the small octagonal room or East towards the main hallway.
If we don't run into it again while we're clearing out the Southwest section of the map (ie. before hitting the ghouls in the main hallway), then we can go back up the C stairs and try to retrigger it. That way we can chase it back down the C stairs safely and see where it goes. If it heads to the main hallway, then we let it go until after we've cleared out the ghouls in that section before trying again.
What I'd like to avoid is chasing blindly after it down the C stairs and running into bad guys we haven't prepared for (déjà vu and all that).
Things have been a little quiet this last week. I suspect that Real Life™ has reared its ugly head for our GM, but I thought I'd make sure he wasn't waiting on us for anything before continuing.
@GM Kwinten, Everything okay? Please let us know if you're waiting on us for anything.
Ah yeah, I was waiting for you to make an actual decision. I thought you were still discussing which stairs to take. If I have misinterpreted that, I'll assume you still want route D and move you accordingly tomorrow. Sorry about that.
Ah yeah, I was waiting for you to make an actual decision. I thought you were still discussing which stairs to take. If I have misinterpreted that, I'll assume you still want route D and move you accordingly tomorrow. Sorry about that.
I believe a plurality have chosen staircase D, so unless someone is vehemently against that choice, then lets go with it.
Oh great, like we needed Lough even more paranoid.
Oh great, like we needed Lough even more paranoid.
Heh heh. Why do you think I got Kka out of there like that? :)
But seriously though... Disable a Device (if that is indeed what were doing) takes 2 actions, so I assumed that Kka wouldn't get more than one shot at it. I figured moving her away with her last action to remove her frightened condition for another shot at it next round was the way to go.
If indeed we get three shots per round at disabling the trap, then she'll hang around and keep trying.
Ah, it is two actions.
@GM Kwinten just take the first roll please. (that just so happens to be the best roll!)
"This is indeed a haunt. You can disable it (single action) with a Deception check to act as if you're not at all scared, or a Religion check to mutter a prayer to ward against the eye."=)
Bugger! I missed that. Oh well, if one of you guys doesn't disable it this turn, then Kka'll rejoin the disablement party next turn.
Since it's come up a couple times and I'm not sure what's in-character opinion v player opinion...
Do we want to re-activate and utilize these circles? My vote (and Kvit's) is yes unless it appears to be a problem later.