Coldwater's Abomination Vaults

Game Master Quentin Coldwater

I am completly unsure of what happened. I did a post, boards ate it, I remade the entire post, the second time I DIDN'T make the fortitude save so I used my hero point, and now they both showed up. GM . . . you get to choose what happens, do I use my hero point or not?

Because of the post lag problems of the site it sometimes takes a looong time for your post to finally show up, not matter how much you try to kick the system with Previews and page refreshes. I've posted twice on several occasions because of this, but usually catch it in time and delete the second bogus post.

I looked into the Stupefied condition and it turns out to be quite difficult to remove by RAW, since it doesn't state any form of automatic reduction (like say Frightened). We'll just have to hope it goes away on its own when the poison runs its course.

On the plus side, the effects of Stupefied on melee PCs seems minimal, less so for spell casters.

Original post stands, I'd say. You still have your Hero Point.

Sorry for being scarce, I was on vacation and between that and 'son please do' things my parents needed, I wasn't able to get online as much as I like.

Don't want to steer you too much, but level 3 contains some spicy things I don't want to throw at a level 2 party. >_>
There's some loose threads you can tie up if you want, but I'd advise against going down those stairs.

Don't want to steer you too much, but level 3 contains some spicy things I don't want to throw at a level 2 party. >_>

There's some loose threads you can tie up if you want, but I'd advise against going down those stairs.

I figured as much. I was mainly hoping that the rest of the group would balk at Kka's suggestion, but of course Lough is just as suicidal as Kka :)

Our options seem limited to me. Eventually we will need to go down one of the two staircases we found. The only question is whether we do one or more of the following first:

1) Go back to Otari and level-up
2) Go up a level and explore the island we missed
3) Kill Zozzlarin
4) Kill the Slurk
5) Kill the remaining mitflits and Boss Skrawng

I see no reason for 3, 4, or 5, so unless I missed a loose end, we're left with 1 and/or 2. Am I missing something?

You can give Boss Skrawng and the mitflits their level back. Just throwing out an alternative to killing them all. :)

The Mayor promised you a big sack of gold as a reward for exploring/clearing this level, and similarly, there's a bounty waiting at Crook's Nook for returning some of the members of the thieves' guild. Both of these can be done during level-up, but I thought I'd mention them.

I'm good with clearing out the island and meeting with the mitflits and then heading back

Or anything else as long as it's not going down a level right now

Exploring the island does seem like a good idea, and then moving the mitflits back.

Since, I assume, we're close to leveling up, I have a couple questions:

Can we or will we have enough time to retrain anything? I want to retrain out of diplomacy for deception. (I forgot I needed it for some illusion spells)

Can we or will we have sufficient time to do some crafting?
Specifically crafting a new staff for my Staff Nexus and crafting some alchemical items.
Staff of Fire Is my goal staff to create, it's only item level 3, but I can't craft staves until I get the magical crafting skill feat, and can't get magical crafting until I get expert crafting skill proficiency at level 3, so I can't get magical crafting until level 4.

Are there higher level formulas, spell scrolls, (level 3+) available in otari or will we have to find some other methods of getting new formulas or spell scrolls? I do know there is a way to reverse engineer alchemical items.

Edit: Oh, and can we use/obtain Spell Catalysts? I think the only one applicable to me would be the Waterproofing Wax for the grease spell.

I only threw out the island because it was a loose end and my mild OCD hates seeing black squares still covering parts of the map (on both levels now). I suspect that the island hasn't gotten any more interesting since we skipped it last time, so I'm happy to keep skipping it unless everyone else's OCD is acting up. That would still leave the black squares on the second level to explore. I suspect that area is accessible from the island (since it is sitting right on top of it) but with all the staircases we keep running into in the vaults, there's probably a way up from the next level down as well.

Reading Kvit's leveling-up issues makes me happy that Kka is a simple rogue. I've currently got her bumping Acrobatics to Expert to improve her Tumble Through odds (though I may go with Intimidation for improved Feinting, or maybe Thievery if we're likely to run into more traps and hazards). For her feats, I'm getting Continual Recovery and Fleet. She gets the Deny Advantage ability for free, though that only helps against opponents of her level or lower. For level 3 stuff, it might be nice to pick up a Bracelet of Dashing for +1 to Athletics, or a Ventriloquist's Ring for +1 to Deception, but at 58gp and 60gp, they might have to wait a while.

While I was looking through Kka's equipment I noticed that she's still got those two bronze keys she picked up a while back. If we ever run into a locked door, then someone please remind me to give them a shot before Kka tries picking the lock.

Cherry needs to consider retaining Bon Mot into Battle Medicine as well. That will let me save my general feat for a General Feat, which are usually harder to get access to.

I'll admit to being tempted to at least a level of armor proficiency, and toughness. I am also tempted to ancestral Paragon into Seedpod or Leshy Lore.

If multiple people want to retrain I'm willing to do a small timeskip. There's not much stopping you from taking some time off. The monsters have no real plans to look for you and you've cleaned up all the levels so far. Not like anything is planning to take revenge right now or is able to repopulate the dungeon. The only real reason you don't want to take off forever is that you know there's ghouls messing with a necromantic ritual, your conscience might start to tug at that at some point. But like I said, I don't see a reason why I'd forbid you from retraining. The mayor might start to grumble, but you can say that you want to be prepared for whatever is down there and he'll agree.
I definitely don't intend for you to run through all 10 levels in 10 days, I'm sure some time off is allowed. :)

Kvit: I'm fine with all character options, as long as your level allows them (so no level 4+ items if you're not level 4 yourself). I don't know the official limits of Otari, but I don't want to skimp you on that because of that. Besides, Absalom is on the same island and I'm sure they can send a runner for requests.

So, to be clear, we are to advance to 3rd level now?

Plus, say, 2d6 ⇒ (5, 2) = 7 days of downtime?

I was thinking a week sounded good, yeah. Let's handwave actual retraining time and give you a short holiday before delving back in again.

You advance to level 3 when you decide to go back to Otari. I think the upper level will be a bit disappointing if you're level 3, so if you want to clear that, I'd prefer if you do that right now, but I can't stop you if you decide otherwise. :)

I was thinking a week sounded good, yeah. Let's handwave actual retraining time and give you a short holiday before delving back in again.

You advance to level 3 when you decide to go back to Otari. I think the upper level will be a bit disappointing if you're level 3, so if you want to clear that, I'd prefer if you do that right now, but I can't stop you if you decide otherwise. :)

Didn't mean/intend to derail the current plans, just trying to save time once we made it to town.

I think we can definitely clear the last couple places on the way back and talk to the mitflits before heading back and leveling up.

Once back, Kvit would like to spend a week retraining (diplomacy->deception) and will send several letters off to his cousins in Absalom to get some formulas/scrolls delivered (hopefully received in time for level 4)

@Kka, I thought it was the Morlocks who killed your buddy? Not the mitflits?

@Kka, I thought it was the Morlocks who killed your buddy? Not the mitflits?

It was the morlocks. Kka has nothing personal against the mitflits except that they’re loose ends and Kka’s primary instinct with loose ends is to take care of them (in the euphemistic mob way) in case they become a problem later.

Hey gang!

Going to give well advance warning of some travel I will be doing in June and July, and will be looking for someone to Bot Lough during that time, with Bot Specifications arranged as the Botter would deem most useful.

As of now, several days in the middle of June (exact dates pending) and two weeks in the middle of July (exact dates pending).

PM me if you might be interested in helping out!

Oh great, now we have two of five party members with a death wish apparently. Lol.

GM - this AP - and You - are freakin awesome!!!

And the Art is So Good!

Yeah, I said this building didn't have much interesting, but this is a fun little encounter that I regretted skipping earlier. I was maybe a bit too eager to push you to the next level.

Kvit opens his mouth to stop Kka as she starts threatening the hidden mitflit but stops as it immediately works. "Looks like you get to be the Queen of the Mitflits."

Kvit makes a good point. It's a bit more difficult in a PbP, but if two players suddenly take two different courses of action, I have to decide which way to go. Kka's Coerce attempt kind of forced my hand in one direction. It's okay to fall back on another tactic if the first one doesn't pan out, but you're kind of "blocking" the other characters' RP a bit. Try to keep that in mind. :)

I didn't mean this in an "I'm telling you off" kinda way, just giving a reminder that this is a team game. Sorry if I came across as harsh.

Not at all. I don't expect the group to just go along with whatever Kvit says. In a live game we'd probably table talk a bit, in PbP I'm trying to do more of a "what would my character do" instead of second guessing every decision.

Plus, he's practicing being more deceptive than diplomatic in preparation for his retraining.

And it made sense how it worked out anyway.

Kvit makes a good point. It's a bit more difficult in a PbP, but if two players suddenly take two different courses of action, I have to decide which way to go. Kka's Coerce attempt kind of forced my hand in one direction. It's okay to fall back on another tactic if the first one doesn't pan out, but you're kind of "blocking" the other characters' RP a bit. Try to keep that in mind. :)

I didn't mean this in an "I'm telling you off" kinda way, just giving a reminder that this is a team game. Sorry if I came across as harsh.

Not at all. I don't expect the group to just go along with whatever Kvit says. In a live game we'd probably table talk a bit, in PbP I'm trying to do more of a "what would my character do" instead of second guessing every decision.

I'm sorry (as a player) if I messed up Kvit's RP with Kka's move. I'm playing her with the same "what would my character do" approach, and I could not see Kka just meekly entering the room and surreptitiously looking around in this situation.

It's been a long day in which she lost a friend, killed numerous creatures, and tasted death three times; she's done playing games; she just wants to clear out these buildings as quickly as possible and get her butt back to Otari for a well-deserved rest. So, yeah, she deliberately ignored Kvit's patient approach to the situation and took things into her own hands.

If this causes conflict or friction between the PCs, then that's fine with me; we can have a good time and RP the crap out of something like that. If this causes problems between players, then that's a different story. Please feel free to let me know if my approach to playing Kka causes you (the player) personal grief and I'll tone things down; after all we're all here to have fun, but not at the expense of the other players (or the GM).

If this causes conflict or friction between the PCs, then that's fine with me; we can have a good time and RP the crap out of something like that. If this causes problems between players, then that's a different story. Please feel free to let me know if my approach to playing Kka causes you (the player) personal grief and I'll tone things down; after all we're all here to have fun, but not at the expense of the other players (or the GM).

No problems here. Obviously if Kka did that frequently, it'd probably be annoying. I feel though that she has been very patient with the group and situations.

Cool that everything is okay. I thought I saw a trend and I wanted to nip it in the bud, but I'm glad that wasn't necessary. :) I tend to be a little too "helpful" without asking people about it first, I hope I don't come across as annoying or meddlesome or something.

Cool that everything is okay. I thought I saw a trend and I wanted to nip it in the bud, but I'm glad that wasn't necessary. :) I tend to be a little too "helpful" without asking people about it first, I hope I don't come across as annoying or meddlesome or something.

I think it's good to talk about it before it's a problem. Especially as we have a long way to go.

GM - this AP - and You - are freakin awesome!!!

And the Art is So Good!

Heh, thanks. :D I like this AP so far, it's not like a regular adventure path, but it's still got a good mix of RP and fights, I feel. There's nice little pockets of RP here and there, and most things have their own clear little story.

I was planning to do this when you hit level 3, but this might be a good time: How do you all feel about the campaign so far, and any comments for me? Things you really like, things you don't like, and so on. My main worry is still the pacing. I try to keep it at one major post per day, and maybe one or two small updates, but I know that the pace is a bit higher than most PbPs I've been in. I hope I don't rush you guys, but if I do, please say so!

Another thing I'm a bit uncertain of is, I hope it's clear that you can talk your way out of a lot of fights. I'm still trying to find the balance between opening doors and immediately rolling initiative and when to start with a discussion that inevitably ends in combat anyway. All the "kings" so far were specifically scripted to open with dialogue, but I'd also like to give you a chance to talk to mooks before you bash their brains out. But I'm not sure if that's getting tiresome at some point.

In all honesty, I've changed very little about the combats so far. I've only removed one combat with a Shadow in a five-foot corridor (the room just south of the giant worm room) because I thought it was just unfun, and I've made Zozzlarin a little bit more peaceful, but other than that I'm basically running as written.

I think it's still going well. I think pacing is okay. My only issue is when posts seem to slow down I can't always tell if you're waiting on us to make a move or if we're waiting on you to give a situation update. So sometimes I'll make a post just to post.

I think the RP/combat balance is good. The only issue with RP or using Social skills to get out of combats is that it feels like we have to clear the floor or its going to bite us later too easily. Like leaving the Morlock king alive after completing our deal (not that Kka would have allowed that!)

The "kings" thing I think is great, even as a running gag. Especially since Lough was deemed mitflit king before we knew the extent of the parallel monarchies below.

I'm good with how things are going. The pacing is fine with me, but I probably have more free time to spend on this sort of thing than most players.

I like this AP too. I like it when there is plenty of opportunity to RP, with the occasional encounter to change the pace. Adventures that are heavy with encounters and light on RP tend to bore me. Once you've determined the optimal way to use your PC in a fight, there isn't a lot more thinking or creativity required; things tend to become more robotic and less interesting at that point.

I thought it was a bit odd that we got to wander through a room full of sarcophagi without any undead to greet us. Now I know why :)

Ok I'll bite.

The only problem I am really having with the AP is that is more of a me thing than anything else.

I simply don't feel as if I am contributing all that much. Part of that is that I am just not coming on often enough, and the other is that I am having trouble writing more than a few lines at a time.

Cherry Berry: Would it help if I slowed the game down a little? That gives you more time to think of a reaction and post. Also, don't feel obligated to post more. Only do so if you want to post more. I'm happy to take you along for the ride. :) Between Kka and Lough, I think we have enough colour in the party. :P

Lough: If others feel the same, I could up the Hero Point distribution a little. My original suggestion (every three or so fights) was based on the fact that at first level, combat can be quite short, and I estimated that you can fit two or three combats in an hour, but upon reflection, that might not be entirely true. PFS certainly doesn't think so. An average PFS scenario has three-four fights and can last four to six hours, so that number isn't quite right.

---

Also, I'm not sure what to do about exploration tactics. On the one hand, I'm not a big fan of those. It doesn't really make sense that you can only look for traps and not recall knowledge, but on the other hand, if I immediately give everyone free knowledge checks every single time they enter a room (especially when combat doesn't break out immediately), I feel that sorta ruins the excitement and mystery. What do you think?

The only problem I am really having with the AP is that is more of a me thing than anything else.

I simply don't feel as if I am contributing all that much. Part of that is that I am just not coming on often enough, and the other is that I am having trouble writing more than a few lines at a time.

We can certainly slow down a bit if that will help.

For RP, it seems like we need someone to be a council or voice of reason. Especially as we seem to have some emotional or mental problems among PCs (Kka's friend dying, Lough... being Lough), and some internal conflicts (Kvit and Sneakers aren't talking since the licking incident). I liked your comment about the lack of sunlight causing the craziness, definitely fits your character and definitely is a plausible theory!

For mechanical, if you feel like you aren't contributing because you are our dedicated healer. Maybe you could do things like Forbidding Ward on Kka or something like that since she likes to get herself knocked out apparently. You are trained in religion and nature, so maybe you could do more recall knowledge checks on critters or phenomena?

If there's anything I can do to help with either aspect, let me know!

For RP, it seems like we need someone to be a council or voice of reason. Especially as we seem to have some emotional or mental problems among PCs (Kka's friend dying, Lough... being Lough), and some internal conflicts (Kvit and Sneakers aren't talking since the licking incident).

Ah, I believe what you're talking about is having some sort of leader figure that will keep the rest of the group in line and who (presumably after receiving input) will make final decisions about how we proceed as a group. The group would then implement such a final decision as a coordinated unit regardless of whether as individuals they agreed with that decision.

Fat chance of that happening with our bunch.

With three chaotics and a couple of head cases, that would be akin to trying to herd cats. Kka is not used to working in groups and chafes when told what to do (even if she agrees with it). The only person that she follows is Yinyasmera, but that's because they've known each other for years and she respects and trusts the woman. Yinyasmera is not just her boss and trainer, but is also a mother figure that she looks up to and wants to emulate. I'm afraid that there just isn't anyone in our group that she respects and trusts enough to direct her in this way. If Kvit wants to be such a leader, he's got a lot of work ahead of him.

And to be honest, as a player, I'm really enjoying the chaos. It is quite liberating and tends to make for good RPing. We're more the cast of "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" that the "The Avengers". I don't think I'd be having half the fun I am if we were the usual group of trained Pathfinders working together towards a common goal under the orders of a Venture-Captain.

As far as everyone not contributing equally, that's to be expected. I think we all understand that all of us are living different lives with different priorities and varying amounts of free time (at least I do). So Cherry, don't let it frustrate you or make you feel like you're letting the team down or something, because you're not. Cherry is just Cherry, the quiet one that tags along behind the crazy ones in the group and only speaks when they have something important to say (and hopefully brings Kka back from the dead on a regular basis :)

As for how often to hand out Hero Points, I'll leave that up to the GM. If I have them to use, then they usually go to rerolling attack or skill checks in critical situations. If not, then perhaps I play a little more conservatively to minimize putting my PC in such critical situations, or I just RP whatever bad outcomes might have been avoided had I had a Hero Point to use. The GM can throttle the supply of Hero Points to control to some degree how free-wheeling the players behave during the adventure. The more Hero Points are available, the lower the critical threshold for their use, and the less careful the players need to be to get their PCs through the challenges they encounter.

Same thing goes for knowledge checks. I leave it to the GM. In a way, I think it's sort of silly that PCs have to explicitly use actions to think hard to remember something; that should be something that happens automatically, with the GM deciding how much information any particular PC might have about a situation based on their skill levels and how stressful the circumstances are. My PCs tend to make very little use of knowledge checks, especially during encounters. I've yet to be in an encounter where a knowledge check made a difference to the outcome, but then again, my highest level PC is at level 5, so maybe that changes at higher levels.

...

Ah, I believe what you're talking about is having some sort of leader figure that will keep the rest of the group in line and who (presumably after receiving input) will make final decisions about how we proceed as a group. The group would then implement such a final decision as a coordinated unit regardless of whether as individuals they agreed with that decision.

Fat chance of that happening with our bunch.
...

I didn't say they'd be successful... Just an idea for character dialog. Or like council like talking about their feelings or issues.

I think that's a great idea Kvit, and really, the mental dialogues Kvit has been having with himself already seems to be headed in that "voice of reason" direction. I think it's also important to consider proportion (as Kka mentioned): We are (nearly) level 3 on our way to level 10, and so, have at minimum 80% of the AP left to go!

Cherry, I'm going to disagree with you in terms of contribution - I think of your character as the "innocent one" in the group (I mean, that name!... and that avatar!!) - perhaps a check or counter-tone against some of the more aberrant personalities present. Also, I was moved when he offered a literal piece of himself (a fruit) to Lough to patch him up - that ancestry feat / heritage has some cool story inside of it!

One "rp advantage" I have in playing Lough is that his personality was already well-developed due to being a (now 7th Level!) PFS character well before applying for him to be in this game - mechanics too (just adding free archetype) - it was a simple matter of porting him over into this game and writing "Otari" into his backstory.

Finally, if you are looking for explicit permission to increase narrative conflict (per earlier discussion) against the group's paranoid fighter, consider that granted here. Knowing that if you push me (the player) into an uncomfortable place, that I will not hesitate to politely speak up.

Again, just happy to be here. Cheers!

Kka, you haven't used your BM on yourself.

I take it you mean that the encounter ended before Kka's turn and that her last actions (including the BM) never took place.

My records show that Kka BMed Lough, Cherry and herself during the Graulgust/Screechy fight, which means that they are immune to her Battle Medicine for 1 day. Her Medic Dedication states that once per day, she can use Battle Medicine on a creature that's temporarily immune. Since her last turn never took place, that provision is presumably still in play.

I updated the loot sheet, though I suspect the spyglass will end up in Spookywisp's hands.

As for narrative conflict and Kvit attempting to kumbaya everyone to mental health... Have at it! I say.

Er, yes, that's what I meant. The doll broke before your turn, so your turn didn't happen.

Borbo has only existed for a single day and I already love him to bits.

Borbo has only existed for a single day and I already love him to bits.

Same

Kvit was more curious than anything, but now he may have to put his crafting skills to work cause he feels bad.

I kind of want to keep Borbo around, because he's fun, but he's kinda done with life. If you don't kill him, I'll allow anyone who dies/wants to reroll a complete rebuild as a Poppet ancestry. :P
(As far as I can tell, Borbo hasn't been on the lower levels, so he has no knowledge to spoil.)

I kind of want to keep Borbo around, because he's fun, but he's kinda done with life. If you don't kill him, I'll allow anyone who dies/wants to reroll a complete rebuild as a Poppet ancestry. :P

I might take you up on that if Kka ever bites the dust permanently. A tiny Toy Poppet might be fun to play, though with the Dex flaw, it might not work real well as a Rogue. Maybe an Inventor with a Construct Companion to ride on, or a Summoner with a Construct Eidolon could work. Something to consider for the future, but I'm not done with Kka just yet.

I kind of want to keep Borbo around, because he's fun, but he's kinda done with life. If you don't kill him, I'll allow anyone who dies/wants to reroll a complete rebuild as a Poppet ancestry. :P

(As far as I can tell, Borbo hasn't been on the lower levels, so he has no knowledge to spoil.)

He could stand in for the familiar Cherry is getting at Level 4 for the time-being.

Okay, small tactical break here. The leech is still attached to Lough, and I want to make sure I do things correctly before I mess things up.

The creature has the Grab ability (and is currently grabbing Lough). The relevant thing here is its Effect line:
The monster automatically Grabs the target until the end of the monster's next turn.
That means that unless Lough frees himself, the leech will just keep draining Lough next turn. Its drain ability is just one action, and deals a lot of damage. If I play the thing optimally, (as a leech would play, I guess), it would keep sticking on to Lough and keep draining until Lough's dead.
The good part is that you've healed Lough enough that he won't drop to 0 HP in one attack, but the second attack will most likely drop Lough to 0 (Dying 2, by the way), and it would suck some more, so Lough would be at Dying 3.

If all of this is correct, this is most likely what this thing will do It's not smart enough to let go and attack someone else.

With that knowledge in mind, I'm willing to let Lough re-do his turn, because this is a stupid way to lose a character.

We're in a bit of a pickle here. Lough is unconscious at Dying 2, Wounded 1. From the way the GM has been describing the damage we've been inflicting on the leech (ie. bloodied means >=50% hp of damage), I'm guessing it has at least 77 hp. Even if Lough were still conscious and on his feet, I don't think we could inflict 40 hp of damage on it this round, and that assumes Kka will crit it again :).

With Kka out of Battle Medicine and Cherry out of Heals, I don't see a lot of options here. The only viable course of action that I see available to us is the following:

(A) Since Kka is next to Lough, she will use her 3 actions to (1) pull out her Elixir of Life (Minor); (2) pour it into Lough thus making him conscious; and (3) get out of the room.

(B) Both Kvit, Giyozara and Cherry can each use 2 actions to throw whatever damage dealing spells they can at the leech, and then use their last action to get out of the room. Cherry's last action should be to free up the square next to the door for Lough to land in.

(C) Lough will (1) Get on his feet with whatever equipment he can get his hands on; (2) move to the square next to the door in the other room (the one Cherry is in currently); and (3) slam the door shut behind him.

Once we're all in the outer room with the door closed, we can Treat Wounds on Lough and wait another 10 minutes to remove his Wounded condition. Hopefully the leech is so weaked by the damage we've inflicted on it to date that a second round of attacks with us at full strength again will take it out. If not, then rinse and repeat until we finally kill it.

Anyone have any better ideas?

I'm going to go ahead and post Kka's actions (see A above), since that has to happen anyway or Lough is toast.

Okay. So Lough apparently has begun finding his bravery at the most inopportune time; either that or he has a death wish (shocking! :).

Had we discussed this at a table and Lough had told me that he was sticking around and not leaving (as any sane person in his place would have), then Kka would have stuck around and used her last action to strike at the leech.

If the GM will allow, then I would like to change Kka's final Stride into a Strike at the leech with her shortsword (unfortunately without Sneak Attack). We can only hope it's a hit and that Kvit, Giyozara, and Cherry can come up with at least 15 hit points of damage amongst themselves.

If the leech is still standing, then we better pray that it is not Lough that it attacks next, or its sayonara big man.

I'm okay with you retconning your last action into a strike. No reason to be harsh on this. :)

I'm okay with you retconning your last action into a strike. No reason to be harsh on this. :)

Great, thanks. I removed the spoiler from my posted retconned action 3.

I just noticed that there are four of us in this small room with the leach in the middle and we've somehow managed to arrange ourselves in such a way that no one is flanking. :)

Oh lord, poor Lough. You went down twice already, so you'd go to Wounded 3, I think. But, here's the catch... The dying rules say that if you critically fail a check, you increase the Dying by 2. Which would put you at Dying 4, or death. You don't have any Hero Points anymore, right? I'm willing to handwave that rule, because I don't like it, if others agree. Unless Lough is itching to play as Borbo, of course. :P It's a stupid rule and even more stupid to lose a character to it, IMHO.

Oh lord, poor Lough. You went down twice already, so you'd go to Wounded 3, I think. But, here's the catch... The dying rules say that if you critically fail a check, you increase the Dying by 2. Which would put you at Dying 4, or death. You don't have any Hero Points anymore, right? I'm willing to handwave that rule, because I don't like it, if others agree. Unless Lough is itching to play as Borbo, of course. :P It's a stupid rule and even more stupid to lose a character to it, IMHO.

I made my please don't crit fail comment because I knew that his doing so would take him straight to Dying 4. With his +7 vs DC 21, the odds of a crit fail are 20%. What I didn't know was that he was out of Hero Points, or I would have been a lot more worried.

I think they added the Wounded condition mechanism to avoid yo-yo situations where PCs would go to Dying over and over in the same encounter and be indefinitely restored with Heal spells or potions to fight another round. I've never played PF1, but apparently this was considered a problem in that edition which they felt the need to rectify.

Having said all that, I am quite happy for you to hand-wave away this rule. It would be a pity to lose Lough now, and I suspect that Kka might well end up needing such hand-waving herself one of these days :) Then again, if Lough wants to play Borbo, that's fine with me too, as long as he's frontline material; If Kka ends up as the sole meat shield of the group, then we're in a lot more trouble than I thought.

One last thing...

If Lough is still with us, then we do not need to waste a healing potion on him. Cherry casting a Stabilize cantrip on him will stop him from dying and then Kka can Treat Wounds on him. No need to waste such precious resources unnecessarily.