Wrath of the Righteous for Paladins

Game Master trawets71

will Unsanctioned Knowledge be allowed so we can diversify our spells a little?

A Shining Knight mounted Paladin could be fun. There seems to be decent mythic content to support mounted combat. And other than the Archetype, most of the stuff is Core.

So just realized the recruitment thread was extended until Friday: Will post another update before then

Ellioti:Halfling, Dual Path Trickster/Hierophant
Oyzar: Gnome Irorian Paladin
Aldizog: Sacred servant Archmage
Cuàn: Tiefling ?multiclass; Crumson Templar and Scar Seeker?
YoricksRequiem: the bard role...
chunky04: Duron Daygen:A virtuoso Bravo Trickster
MayveAvengr: Gnome Faithful Wanderer Paladin Trickster
The Archlich: Dwarf Stonelord Guardian
Nathanael Love: Æthelweard Tinytoes, Hospitaler Paladin, Hierophant
Spazmodeus: ranged specialist Paladin
Jereru: Half-Orc vanilla Paladin Champion
Orodhen: Virtuoso Bravo Paladin of Shelyn using the Bladed Brush feat or A shining Knight mounted Paladin
Phntm888: Ardriel Zinro Archmage
Don Guy:
Robert Henry: Aasimar Ian Passeri sacred shield/Warrior of the Holy Light Marshal or Guardian The backstory will reflect both as a possibility

Cuàn: Tiefling ?multiclass; Crumson Templar and Scar Seeker?

I'm actually juggling several ideas and want to know which ones would work and which ones wouldn't.

I'm not looking at getting both PrCs on one char (couldn't even be done because of the deity requirement in both).

Sorry for no responses today. I've had to run errands and been out of the house. Need to do some stuff in the house now then dinner. There may not be anything until this evening.

** spoiler omitted **

Non core choices are ok.

Vindictive Bastard out the window, check.

Two other questions then:
First, does the no multiclassing extend to Prestige Classes? To be specific I'm looking at the Crimson Templar and the Scar Seeker as ideas. To me those two feel like Paladins flavored towards their specific Empyreal Lords. The latter even gets some Paladin class features, and new uses for them.

Second, does the allowance for feats outside of core that fit your class features extend towards races? I'm asking because there are quite a few Tiefling feats dealing with, well, dealing with fiends (in an unfriendly manner) but they are all outside the core.

I have been debating whether to allow prestige classes as they are typically weaker that staying in your class. I think I'm going to keep this to paladin levels only.

I may allow the feats on a case by case basis. Ask and I'll let you know, though I don't think there were any too powerful.

The dwarf feats are Here.

I'm especially considering Cleave Through and Steel Soul, but wanted to provide the whole list just in case.

I plan to go for the Guardian path, like I said, and the Cleave feats (including Mythic Cleave once we get to that point).

Is the Stonelord archetype ok?

Seems like there are a lot of tricksters being submitted... @DM: Are you sure you won't consider multiple people of the same path as long as they have different focus?

I'm thinking to focus on battlefield control and knowledge, which is typically covered by a wizard. As a gnome irorian I can pick of breath of knowledge and defic obedience to really pump up knoweldges even without having them in class.

Can I start as middle aged, gnome get middle aged at 100, which is the requirement for breath of knowledge?

I'm not certain I want to allow access to Deific Obedience, though I am considering allowing it in this instance and to allow you to be 100 without any of the bonus' or penalties.

Alright, what I'm going to do is, instead of asking individually for every feature, present you here the basic choices. You tell me what's kosher and what's not and I'll change accordingly.

Bron Frostbreath

Archetype: Vanilla Paladin
Race: Half Orc
Alternate Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo, Skilled, Fey Thoughts
Traits: Stolen Fury, Fate's Favored
Feats: Fey Foundling

The background is in process of being written, will have it ready later today.

You tripped the cheese meter. While I'm allowing Sacred Tattoo, I won't allow it with Fate's Favored. That's a permanent +2. If you want to keep Fate's Favored you can, but it won't apply to the Sacred Tattoo.

I've never been a fan of the Fey Foundling feat, so it is out too.

I do appreciate that you cheesed on the defensive side though.

will Unsanctioned Knowledge be allowed so we can diversify our spells a little?

Racial traits ok and I am going to allow Unsanctioned Knowledge.

Have made an attempt at a build and a backstory that fits the criteria in the OP.

I present Duron Daygen as my application - all info should be in his profile.

Submission looks good. I will also mention there is a Desna Fighting style feat I will allow as well for the starknife if I recall correctly.

A Shining Knight mounted Paladin could be fun. There seems to be decent mythic content to support mounted combat. And other than the Archetype, most of the stuff is Core.

I will tell you what I told someone else in a PM, I've run the first two books of this before and a lot of it takes place indoors. A good deal of the later books do as well. If you want a mount I would highly recommend one that is medium at it's largest.

Duron Daygen wrote:

Have made an attempt at a build and a backstory that fits the criteria in the OP.

I present Duron Daygen as my application - all info should be in his profile.

Submission looks good. I will also mention there is a Desna Fighting style feat I will allow as well for the starknife if I recall correctly.

Desna Fighting Style requires the character to be Chaotic Good. I was considering it when I was thinking on the ex-paladin archetype, but since it was shot down, I shelved the idea.

Still pondering - I was thinking Elven Sacred Servant of Yuelral to be the quasi-mage (with the domain to get Knowledge skills in class), but I see a Yuelral paladin build above.

So I am now leaning towards a Halfling Sacred Shield build, focused on defending allies while being almost impossible to put down. The Guardian path for sure.

Unless something else strikes my fancy. I'll have a submission tomorrow I think.

@GM: As for racial traits (for my Dwarf), I'd like to get Barrow Scholar and Barrow Warden. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

Orodhen wrote:

A Shining Knight mounted Paladin could be fun. There seems to be decent mythic content to support mounted combat. And other than the Archetype, most of the stuff is Core.

I will tell you what I told someone else in a PM, I've run the first two books of this before and a lot of it takes place indoors. A good deal of the later books do as well. If you want a mount I would highly recommend one that is medium at it's largest.

Fair enough. Never played the AP, so no clue what's in store. Never mind that idea then.

Archlich here with my Dwarf Stonelord. Still making changes according to feedback from the GM. Thanks for hosting it!

Dotting for interest. Thinking about a concept to fill either the Marshall, Heirophant, or Champion role. I'll see where the backstory guides me and go from there.

Archlich here with my Dwarf Stonelord. Still making changes according to feedback from the GM. Thanks for hosting it!

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I got interrupted right before I was going to reply to you. Both of the feats you mentioned and the traits are fine, as well as the archetype.

DM Trawets wrote:

Duron Daygen wrote:

Have made an attempt at a build and a backstory that fits the criteria in the OP.

I present Duron Daygen as my application - all info should be in his profile.

Submission looks good. I will also mention there is a Desna Fighting style feat I will allow as well for the starknife if I recall correctly.

Desna Fighting Style requires the character to be Chaotic Good. I was considering it when I was thinking on the ex-paladin archetype, but since it was shot down, I shelved the idea.

Yeah I was really twisting myself on how to fit the Desna parts in with the LG requirement on Paladin when I came across Tanagaar, and combining those two is what made the character click into place and feel real for me.

So a lot of Duron’s outlook is a bit more Chaotic, but he then takes that and applies it using Tanagaar’s tenets to make things happen.

My submission is on the profile here. Divine Hunter/Trickster.

The roguish type with Disable Device as a class skill via Vagabond Child. Probably putting more points in Stealth going forward for scouting ahead. Focus on ranged thrown weapons with Starknives but capable enough with them in melee thanks to the Divine Fighting Technique.

Source Books for Archetype(s): Ultimate Combat and Weapon Master's Handbook. Desna's Shooting Star from the Divine Anthology does not require a specific alignment, merely to worship her.

Vagabond Child is from Ultimate Campaign which isn't core so will have to run that by you.

So just realized the recruitment thread was extended until Friday: Will post another update before then

Ellioti:Halfling, Dual Path Trickster/Hierophant
Oyzar: Gnome Irorian Paladin
Aldizog: Sacred servant Archmage
Cuàn: Tiefling ?multiclass; Crumson Templar and Scar Seeker?
YoricksRequiem: the bard role...
chunky04: Duron Daygen:A virtuoso Bravo Trickster
MayveAvengr: Gnome Faithful Wanderer Paladin Trickster
The Archlich: Dwarf Stonelord Guardian
Nathanael Love: Æthelweard Tinytoes, Hospitaler Paladin, Hierophant
Spazmodeus: ranged specialist Paladin
Jereru: Half-Orc vanilla Paladin Champion
Orodhen: Virtuoso Bravo Paladin of Shelyn using the Bladed Brush feat or A shining Knight mounted Paladin
Phntm888: Ardriel Zinro Archmage
Don Guy:
Robert Henry: Aasimar Ian Passeri sacred shield/Warrior of the Holy Light Marshal or Guardian The backstory will reflect both as a possibility

Don guy is a vanilla paladin with a greatsword who will be going for massive smites.

Still pondering - I was thinking Elven Sacred Servant of Yuelral to be the quasi-mage (with the domain to get Knowledge skills in class), but I see a Yuelral paladin build above.

So I am now leaning towards a Halfling Sacred Shield build, focused on defending allies while being almost impossible to put down. The Guardian path for sure.

Unless something else strikes my fancy. I'll have a submission tomorrow I think.

Don’t change your idea on my account - it might be better than what I came up with for filling the role.

My submission is on the profile here. Divine Hunter/Trickster.

The roguish type with Disable Device as a class skill via Vagabond Child. Probably putting more points in Stealth going forward for scouting ahead. Focus on ranged thrown weapons with Starknives but capable enough with them in melee thanks to the Divine Fighting Technique.

Source Books for Archetype(s): Ultimate Combat and Weapon Master's Handbook. Desna's Shooting Star from the Divine Anthology does not require a specific alignment, merely to worship her.

Vagabond Child is from Ultimate Campaign which isn't core so will have to run that by you.

Traits are not core and I'm allowing anything thematic. If something is too power or choices are made that I feel are too powerful I'll let you know.

Rules as Written I believe Divine Hunter and Tempered Champion can not stack as they both modify the Divine Bond, I'm tempted to allow it anyway as they don't interfere with each other but reinforce each other. There is a bigger problem here though and I have unknowingly caused the issue as I didn't look when I mentioned Desna's fighting technique, Desna's Shooting Star. Any of these require you to worship the god that has that technique. As such only the ones for LG, NG, or LN gods would be available and you would need to worship that god. I'm sorry for mentioning that technique earlier.

Ah yeah I totally forgot to bring that up with the archetype conflicts.

So we are using the PFS rules for Paladin deities that require alignments within a step? As per core only clerics have that rule. If so I will look over other options. Anything else to make note of?

Trawets, any chance for Duron I could take a negative trait to take Seeker and make Perception a class skill in addition to Disable Device to make him suit the scouty role better?

Duron, you can also get the Additional Traits feat, no need for drawbacks.

Donnen Phelps wrote:

Archlich here with my Dwarf Stonelord. Still making changes according to feedback from the GM. Thanks for hosting it!

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I got interrupted right before I was going to reply to you. Both of the feats you mentioned and the traits are fine, as well as the archetype.

Thanks GM! I put a tentative sheet for Donnen here in the profile. I'm still debating and going around some things, potentially tweaking more the background, but the bulk should be there. Cheers.

Made a build focused on the bow rather than the starknife since that may be a no go. Switched Divine Hunter for Oath of Vengeance/Tempered Champion, although I am not sure if they would conflict as well since Oaths give more spell choices and Tempered removes spellcasting altogether but that Weapon Focus is really nice for eventually going into Empty Quiver Style if allowed. May need to tweak it a bit and change the background around a bit.

MauveAvengr here. Have a Faithful Wanderer gnome paladin build (trickster). Focusing more on being a skill monkey than a damage dealer. Working on my background right now, but thought I'd submit my character before I head to bed. May fiddle around a bit with stats and stuff. If anyone has suggestions, would definitely be open to hearing them!

May pick up Unsanctioned Knowledge or Breadth of Experience instead of Weapon Finesse if that's allowed. And Fey Thoughts and Gift of Tongues as alternative racial traits (took Inquisitive to boost disable device already).

Jereru wrote:

Alright, what I'm going to do is, instead of asking individually for every feature, present you here the basic choices. You tell me what's kosher and what's not and I'll change accordingly.

Bron Frostbreath

Archetype: Vanilla Paladin
Race: Half Orc
Alternate Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo, Skilled, Fey Thoughts
Traits: Stolen Fury, Fate's Favored
Feats: Fey Foundling

The background is in process of being written, will have it ready later today.

You tripped the cheese meter. While I'm allowing Sacred Tattoo, I won't allow it with Fate's Favored. That's a permanent +2. If you want to keep Fate's Favored you can, but it won't apply to the Sacred Tattoo.

I've never been a fan of the Fey Foundling feat, so it is out too.

I do appreciate that you cheesed on the defensive side though.

Yeah, I know the ST+FF combo is powerful. I was just trying to be able to spread the abilities a bit and not going with 16 Charisma (which nets a permanent +3). But no problem.

Same with Fey Foundling, was there as staying power since most submissions at the time were tricksters and arcanes. It was even integrated in the background, together with Fey Thoughts, but I can change that.

Will try to have something ready for today/tomorrow.

DM Trawets wrote:

You tripped the cheese meter. While I'm allowing Sacred Tattoo, I won't allow it with Fate's Favored. That's a permanent +2. If you want to keep Fate's Favored you can, but it won't apply to the Sacred Tattoo.

Yeah, I know the ST+FF combo is powerful. I was just trying to be able to spread the abilities a bit and not going with 16 Charisma (which nets a permanent +3). But no problem.

Also, that would have allowed me to pick archetypes that drop Divine Grace.

I'm working on an Aasimar Martyr Paladin of Vildeis.
The character would go for Touched by Divinity but will most likely Dual Path Heirophant with Marshall. The other way around, so Child of the Crusade and Dual Path Heirophant would of course also work but be a little less flavorful.

here is Alinza 'Zero' Vilnari.
Reach melee build going into Guardian (maybe dual Guardian/Hierophant).

skills that she brings to the table and will be kept at full level: Knowledge (Local) +5, Knowledge (Planes) +6, Perception +4, Sense Motive +4, Use Magic Device +6, Appraise +6

I'm surprised how many gnome and halflings there have ended up being kicked around! Usually people shy away from small melee characters!

I'm going to go with a human male Enlightened Paladin build throughout with unarmed strikes and a bow and arrow for ranged.

Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)

Skills Diplomacy, Knowledge (religion), , Linguistics, Knowledge (history)

Traits: Child of the Crusade, Reacrionary

I will have a backstory up pretty soon.

GM, any notes on my submission here?

I am going with a dwarven Oath of the Skyseeker paladin named Leothar. Probably the Champion mythic path. Will make an alias soon.

While one could theoretically make a human adopted by dwarves to get an effective +4 Cha (+2 rather than -2), I think Skyseekers should be dwarves. He'll be a bit suboptimal but I know the traits I am asking for below are on the stronger side.

Oath of the Skyseeker gives a nice "chain smite" ability at level 1, the underrated Stalwart ability at level 14, a few minor changes in between, and some useful spells (Enlarge Person, Find Traps, Spiritual Ally, and Blessing of Fervor).

In terms of story, there is a Sky Citadel in the Worldwound that needs to be reclaimed, but will not be safe until the Worldwound is closed. So his overall goal is to reclaim Jormurdun, but is first working with Mendev to fight the demons, hoping for their help afterwards. It's even there in the Player's Guide: "In addition to defending the continent from demonic horror, a fair number of dwarves who have joined the crusades battle the Worldwound in hopes of reclaiming a lost Sky Citadel within its borders." That's Leothar.

Non-core options I am considering:
Glory of Old trait
Defensive Strategist trait
Steel Soul feat
Alternate racial trait of Lorekeeper (replaces Greed, mainly for flavor)
Alternate racial trait of Relentless (replaces Stability, works well if I take the Stolen Fury trait to do Bull Rushes and Overruns)
Mighty Strength spell (from Dwarves of Golarion; if you worship Torag you can also attune yourself to one of his family when you prepare spells, and get this Trudd spell; only comes into play at level 13)

Ah yeah I totally forgot to bring that up with the archetype conflicts.

So we are using the PFS rules for Paladin deities that require alignments within a step? As per core only clerics have that rule. If so I will look over other options. Anything else to make note of?

In Golorian paladins have to be within one step of their god.

I have looked at the archetypes closely again. Divine Hunter is listed as replacing Divine Bond. Tempered Champion is not. Divine Hunter says "This ability replaces the standard paladin’s divine bond." Tempered Champion has no such language in it. Based on this I would allow the combo.

Trawets, any chance for Duron I could take a negative trait to take Seeker and make Perception a class skill in addition to Disable Device to make him suit the scouty role better?

I am not allowing drawbacks

MauveAvengr here. Have a Faithful Wanderer gnome paladin build (trickster). Focusing more on being a skill monkey than a damage dealer. Working on my background right now, but thought I'd submit my character before I head to bed. May fiddle around a bit with stats and stuff. If anyone has suggestions, would definitely be open to hearing them!

May pick up Unsanctioned Knowledge or Breadth of Experience instead of Weapon Finesse if that's allowed. And Fey Thoughts and Gift of Tongues as alternative racial traits (took Inquisitive to boost disable device already).

Looks good. I believe I have oked the options you listed elsewhere.

here is Alinza 'Zero' Vilnari.

Reach melee build going into Guardian (maybe dual Guardian/Hierophant).

skills that she brings to the table and will be kept at full level: Knowledge (Local) +5, Knowledge (Planes) +6, Perception +4, Sense Motive +4, Use Magic Device +6, Appraise +6

Looks good.

GM, any notes on my submission here?

Sorry for the delay. Everything looks good there. I was glad to see a chosen one. There are a couple other archetypes I was hoping to see as well.

I am going with a dwarven Oath of the Skyseeker paladin named Leothar. Probably the Champion mythic path. Will make an alias soon.

While one could theoretically make a human adopted by dwarves to get an effective +4 Cha (+2 rather than -2), I think Skyseekers should be dwarves. He'll be a bit suboptimal but I know the traits I am asking for below are on the stronger side.

Oath of the Skyseeker gives a nice "chain smite" ability at level 1, the underrated Stalwart ability at level 14, a few minor changes in between, and some useful spells (Enlarge Person, Find Traps, Spiritual Ally, and Blessing of Fervor).

In terms of story, there is a Sky Citadel in the Worldwound that needs to be reclaimed, but will not be safe until the Worldwound is closed. So his overall goal is to reclaim Jormurdun, but is first working with Mendev to fight the demons, hoping for their help afterwards. It's even there in the Player's Guide: "In addition to defending the continent from demonic horror, a fair number of dwarves who have joined the crusades battle the Worldwound in hopes of reclaiming a lost Sky Citadel within its borders." That's Leothar.

Non-core options I am considering:
Glory of Old trait
Defensive Strategist trait
Steel Soul feat
Alternate racial trait of Lorekeeper (replaces Greed, mainly for flavor)
Alternate racial trait of Relentless (replaces Stability, works well if I take the Stolen Fury trait to do Bull Rushes and Overruns)
Mighty Strength spell (from Dwarves of Golarion; if you worship Torag you can also attune yourself to one of his family when you prepare spells, and get this Trudd spell; only comes into play at level 13)

Background ties in nicely with events in the Worldwound. I have a base tiefling paladin that I played in WotR and just ate the -2 charisma. Your options are approved other than the spell. I would prefer to wait for decisions on spells until the spell casting comes online.

Phntm888 wrote:

GM, any notes on my submission here?

Sorry for the delay. Everything looks good there. I was glad to see a chosen one. There are a couple other archetypes I was hoping to see as well.

Thanks, GM! I normally wouldn't pester, but with the short recruitment, I wanted to make sure I could make any necessary changes before the deadline.

I'm considering being a smiter machine by combining Celestial Servant/Oath of Vengeance.

So the idea is to use Lay on Hands to fuel more smites

Lay on Hands
Bonus from Sacred Servant of more LoH
Goes into more smites from Oath of Vengeance

@Don Guy,

There might be other bonuses to that combination of archetypes, and you would get more flexibility in terms of either Lay on Hands or Smite, but over time you're not really gaining that many uses of smite by combining the two. Sacred Servant adds extra smites at a pace of 1 ever 6 levels instead of 1 every three, and so is effectively losing one smite every 6 levels. Oath of Vengeance adds Lay on Hands at one every 3 levels, and can exchange 2 uses for a smite. That means they're adding an effective smite every 6 levels, the same rate that Sacred Servant lost them. For some levels (4 through 7 for example) you're actually coming out behind where the Oath of Vengeance would without the Sacred Servant in the mix.

Which doesn't mean you shouldn't go that route, but I don't think that it does what you want it to do.

@DM Trawet, I've been watching the thread since it started and thinking some about builds that might be interesting that haven't been suggested. It gets tricky given that we're all starting with Paladins, but I don't think that anyone has suggested a Holy Tactician yet. If I chose the archetype would I be able to use teamwork feats from both Ultimate Combat (where it was introduced) and the Advanced Players Guide (which came out earlier)? I'm considering a human (Ulfen) Paladin of Torag, as they seem to join the dwarves in worshiping him, who would take the Defensive Strategist trait so that starting at level 3 she would be able to use Battlefield Presence to keep Lookout up out of combat when we're exploring dungeons and what not. It seems to be one of the only ways to give that particular teamwork feat to the rest of the party in a useful way given the flat footed clause in Battlefield Presence. Then starting at level 7 she'd add other teamwork feats she could switch to once combat starts like outflank, escape route, broken wing gambit and the like.

The basic idea is a Marshal build who uses her turns to direct allies into the correct spaces and allow them to make extra attacks on her turn, while setting up for AOO using reach outside of her turn. When everyone is set up she'll certainly be able to attack as well, but primarily she'd be there to make everyone else shine as much as possible.

I'd also like to see if the Militaristic Tradition (Several human cultures raise all children (or all children of a certain social class) to serve in the military or defend themselves with force of arms. They gain proficiency with up to two martial or exotic weapons appropriate to their culture. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.) to get proficiency in Fauchard and Falcata instead of my typical human bonus feat would be acceptable. I think it fits with the rest of a background growing up training with other Paladins to play a support role in the crusades, but it would be to gain access to two weapons that are both on the stronger side, so it might be more than you're interested in.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Here is Aldizog's dwarf paladin submission.

DM Trawets wrote:

Phntm888 wrote:

GM, any notes on my submission here?

Sorry for the delay. Everything looks good there. I was glad to see a chosen one. There are a couple other archetypes I was hoping to see as well.

Thanks, GM! I normally wouldn't pester, but with the short recruitment, I wanted to make sure I could make any necessary changes before the deadline.

No problem. I meant to comment on all submitted builds. I'm going to allow some tweaking once choices are made; skills, gear, traits maybe even feats if need be.