Wrath of the Righteous for Paladins

Game Master trawets71

Since there were so many applicants for GM Mioki's WotR recruitment I decided I'd run this for those that didn't make it in. I am throwing in a bit of a twist though. It's an all Paladin party. I am aware that means no 9th level casting. I'm on the fence about allowing one arcane caster with access to the sorcerer/wizard spell list. I'm not as certain about someone with access to the cleric spell list. I'll listen to arguments for both.

20 Point Build. I like balanced stats. Nothing below 10 before racial or higher than 18 after racial. Wrath gets crazy enough with out min maxing stats. This is the perfect AP to try less optimal builds.
Core Only*
2 Background skills
2 Traits, 1 must be campaign
Max HP 1st Level
Max gold
I want to try and get this going quickly so I'm aiming to close recruitment on Wed. April 29 by 11 PM EST

I will be taking six. One for each campaign trait. I am looking for a well rounded party so I'll be looking to fill the typical fighter, thief, mage, cleric roles, plus a bard.

*I am allowing archetypes for the paladin. This should help cover some of the roles, though I don't think there is a archetype to add trapfinding nor do I think there is an arcane one. No occult, no guns, no vigilante, other than that I am only restricting things to Paizo sources for the archetypes and feats from the book the archetype is in that go with it. For example if you have an archetype that gives slayer class abilities you can use feats that augment those abilities; kind like extra performance does in core for the bard. I reserve the right to say no to anything.

*I am also allowing aasimirs and tieflings but only the base original ones.

I'm sure I forgot something so don't be afraid to ask.

In order to cover Trapfinding, would you allow the Trap finder trait that is theoretically a campaign trait?

You could fill some roles easier with allowing Variant Multiclassing...

Edit:
I have two spontaneous ideas:
- Virtous Bravo archetype VMC Rogue with Slashing Grace feat (technically not in the same book as the archetype)
- Halfling Paladin VMC Bard with high UMD and focus on Aid Another

I would be interested in playing the arcane caster as a non-paladin if that's still open, if not I'm going to back Ellioti's suggestion of VMC to expand on the options available. With only 2 days until the deadline you kind of need to decide soon if you'll allow a non-paladin for the arcane slot or not.

You might consider allowing a Bloodrager (particularly a LG one with the Celestial bloodline) as the arcane caster. There is one archetype that gains a few bard/magus spells, and one that gains a few druid spells.

Much like the paladin it has 4-level casting and full BAB.

Sacred Servant paladin gets a ton of options for spellcasting due to the domain. And Unsanctioned Knowledge adds a great deal of versatility to the paladin spell list. I would suggest you allow that feat even though it is non-Core.

VMC does not give too much in the casting department, but has a few very strong combos (like Hospitaler Paladin with VMC Order of the Star cavalier). It gets essentially 1.5*level for Channel and Lay on Hands. I would use your discretion in which (if any) combos you allow.

"Less optimal builds" sounds appealing. I may make a submission.

Hi there!

I have just enough games on my shoulders, but some time ago I made a build for an Arcane Crusader which raises from Paladin to Eldritch Knight. I will leave it here just in case someone wants to play it to fulfill that arcane caster role.

It is full Core and has 1 level of Paladin.

The Arcane Crusader: Paladin 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 5
Poang Hao: Human (Tien) melee alternative (greatsword, +2 Str, Toughness):
Str 17 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 8
Target armor: mithril breastplate
Deity: Irori or Qi Zhong

Mireldhravel: Elf ranged alternative (composite longbow):
Str 14 Dex 17 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8
Target armor: mage armor
Deity: Yuelral

1) Paladin 1: Weapon Focus [Point Blank Shot], smite evil 1/day, aura of good, detect evil
2) Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll, arcane bond (weapon), school (transmutation), physical improvement (+1 Str [+1 Dex]), telekinetic fist, Level 1 spells
3) Wizard 2: Arcane Armor Training [Precise Shot]
4) Wizard 3: Level 2 spells, Str +1 [Dex +1]
5) Wizard 4: Arcane Strike [Weapon Focus]
6) Wizard 5: physical improvement (+2 Str [+2 Dex]), Level 3 spells
7) Arcane Knight 1: Power Attack [Deadly Aim], Dodge [Rapid Shot] (B), diverse training
8) Arcane Knight 2: Str +1 [Dex +1]
9) Arcane Knight 3: Weapon Specialization, Level 4 spells
10) Arcane Knight 4:
11) Arcane Knight 5: Quick Spell Metamagic or Iron Will [Arcane Strike or Manyshot], Improved Critical (B), Level 5 spells
[]: ranged alternative

Skills: 5/level + background skills
Taits: magical knack

How does the attack look like by 11th level:
+2 greatsword +18 (8 BAB, 6 Str, 1 Weapon focus, 2 g. magic weapon, 2 heroism, -1 enlarge person size)
damage: 3d6+16 (9 Str, 2 w. specialization, 2 g. magic weapon, 3 arcane strike)

+2 composite longbow +19 (8 BAB, 6 Dex, 1 Weapon focus, 2 g. magic weapon, 2 heroism)
damage: 1d8+9 (2 Str, 2 w. specialization, 2 g. magic weapon, 3 arcane strike)

Classes reasoning: The goal is to become an Eldritch Knight, a crusader that fights in the Worldwound with iron and magic. Paladin is first level because full proficiency with all martial weapons is required for EK and to fulfill the campaign theme of “all paladins”. If paladin was not required, the ranged build can strongly benefit at lower levels from taking instead a level in fighter because you can have Precise Shot from level 1. Then 5 levels of Wizard because 3rd level spells are required. The transmutation school allows us to get +2 to one physical ability. As the Paladin smite evil is useless with such a low Cha, consider the archetypes Iroran Paladin or Oath of the People’s Council.

The strength of the build is being able to use spells like heroism, enlarge person, stoneskin, shield, mirror image, haste, great invisibility or see invisibility to enhance himself, while still having enough spell slots to provide utility like divinations and teleportation.

Would you allow a Vindictive Bastard Paladin?

The idea is for a Paladin who has become disappointed in the lofty ideals of the crusades and sees it all as a failure but stays anyway to keep him friends and comrades safe.
He is the best friend you'll ever have, as long as you can deal with the sarcasm and the occasional sigh of disappointment.

This is the perfect AP to try less optimal builds.

With that in mind, what are your thoughts on using the Elephant in the Room houserules for removing some feat taxes? I think it could make a big difference for some different builds to not have to blow early feats on the same things you'd always do, eg: Weapon Finesse, Power Attack, Point-Blank Shot. Especially if Variant Multiclassing is on the table.

Either way, dot! I'm throwing in my hat for the Bard role, will have a build by tomorrow morning.

Hmm, this one is interesting.

Would paladin 2\sorcerer x into either dragon disciple of eldritch Knight be enough paladin to be allowed in the party? It'll take some time to get there, but eventually it would fill the arcane role.

I'd be interested in doing a half-orc Redeemer paladin. Can have a build for that soon.

if VMC was allowed, this would be my submission:

@GM: Would a Vindictive Bastard be allowed? He'd still be someone good, but actually who fell towards Chaos due to traumas of enslavement. He'd be the "wild card" in the party.

Since no one has mentioned a "cleric" Paladin yet--

I'd like to play a Hospitaler Paladin (APG), to which I'd stack the Cleric Variant Multi-Class, and the Agathian Alternate Divine Bond (Healer's Handbook) which would beef up the healing ability of the core Paladin to fill the full Cleric role.

I'd go with a ranged specialist Paladin with Oath vs Fiends if that's ok.

I don't think the arcane role is needed.

You can get a few arcane spells through domains if you really want (Sacred Servant), but with Mythic you can take Legendary Item.

I'll work up a paladin but am not interested in playing alongside a 9th-level caster (or even 6th-level).

I agree with Aldizog, I think it'd be cooler to avoid the multiclassing shenanigans. The appeal of this recruitment is to truly be all pally-based. With the mythic stuff we can definitely go around the limitations of roles with creativity... And it adds to the challenge.

I'd be glad to play a classical, full melee paladin, sword in hand etc etc.

I don't know if dipping is allowed; if it is I might add the already classical level of oracle, or maybe some fighter/cavalier or whatever, but the plan is to be the one with the big full plate chopping demons with his sword.

Edit: forget about oracle, I just realised that was not in the CRB :P

Hey all. I went to bed with no responses and got back on with 17. To answer some questions I've seen so far:

I have decided on all paladin levels no VMC, no multi-classing no 9th level casters. Mythic gets crazy and there are ways to get some arcane spells.

Feat tax rules are not in place. With as crazy powerful as this gets the idea is to try and make this a challenge.

To me, this AP screams for heroes. So I'm going to say no to vindictive bastard. I want characters that want to be here and aren't asking "why".

There are non-campaign traits that give disable device as a class skill. Magical traps will have to be part of the challenge.

For Oath against Fiends is going to be tough if not impossible not to fall at certain stages of this AP. Sometimes you have to work with the lesser of two evils.

I'll leave recruitment open until Friday to give more time for thought.

Let me know if I forgot anything.

I'm okay with all the rules. Maybe, and just maybe, I'd suggest to increase skill points to 4+Int, since with a 20 point but and having no other option but Paladins, some of us might have a bad time trying to have some diversity (pick Perception, pick Kn Religion, pick any other one and that's it). In a usual group, that's non-important since there's always a rogue/ranger/bard/investigator/whatever there to help, but here we have Paladins.

That's just a suggestion, of course (as I said, my plan is to play the big tough guy, so I'm probably the one who cares less about it).

Yup...rules are sensible.
No problem with no Oath...

Still going with ranged smiter of evil!!

I don't see how filling the arcane role to any decent degree without multiclassing is possible. At least not to the extent that archmage makes sense. Maybe I should just give up the idea and focus on something else..

There are non-campaign traits that give disable device as a class skill. Magical traps will have to be part of the challenge.

Well, you're contradicting yourself. You want someone to fill the traditional Rogue role, but you're not allowing options to fill it.

I do like a character building challenge and will stick around, but this is a big one...

PS: This would be so much easier if had said "all bards"

@Jereru: some archetypes get 4+ skill points

Dot. Playing through this game will be a unique challenge.

I have played this AP to partway through Book 4, if you would prefer someone who hasn't played it partway through.

I'd also like to second Jereru's idea of increasing skills to 4+Int modifier. Otherwise, you're just going to have a party of paladins that can tell what a demon or an undead is, but can't do much else.

@Jereru: some archetypes get 4+ skill points

Ah, well, then.

Btw, there's a Trickster Path Ability that allows you to disarm magical traps through UMD.

@GM: Are alternate race traits a go? As in, for example, Sacred Tattoo.

I know it originally said Core only, but is a Virtuoso Bravo Paladin of Shelyn using the Bladed Brush feat ok?

Ok, so without VMC Hospitaler Paladin with or without Alternate Divine Bond as allowed still fills the "healer"/cleric role.

What exactly did you want for submission- character concept or completed character?

@Ellioti: There's a trickster path ability that allow you to disable magical traps... Are you still going trickster? If not I might want to try to head down that path. Though it seems like a character trying to fill the "arcane" role is better served to go into either trickster or hierophant than archmage. But I guess he never said that there had to be a riftwarden orphan, so maybe multiple tricksters is indeed the way to go.

I know it originally said Core only, but is a Virtuoso Bravo Paladin of Shelyn using the Bladed Brush feat ok?

Since the feat is specific to your deity and doesn't allow dex to damage I'll allow it.

@Ellioti: There's a trickster path ability that allow you to disable magical traps... Are you still going trickster? If not I might want to try to head down that path. Though it seems like a character trying to fill the "arcane" role is better served to go into either trickster or hierophant than archmage. But I guess he never said that there had to be a riftwarden orphan, so maybe multiple tricksters is indeed the way to go.

I will be taking six. One for each campaign trait. I am looking for a well rounded party so I'll be looking to fill the typical fighter, thief, mage, cleric roles, plus a bard.

I believe it is implied that the GM would like all six campaign traits to be taken, and thus each of the six Mythic Paths to be taken. There is always the option of the Dual Path Mythic Feat.

I'm feeling I'm going to be so lonely there in the frontline :p

Ok, so without VMC Hospitaler Paladin with or without Alternate Divine Bond as allowed still fills the "healer"/cleric role.

What exactly did you want for submission- character concept or completed character?

I would allow the Agathion Bond alternate divine bond for a Hospitaler and yes that fills the cleric role.

For submission I'm looking for a background and very basic character build. Stats, archetypes, feats, traits, mythic path you intend to take. If you want to do a full build or alias that is fine.

A word about roles. As full BAB d10 HP characters you will all be somewhat able to fill the fighter role. What I am looking for is someone specialize in a particular role, not fully filling it. For example a hospitalier would be healing specialized. There may be other archetypes that grant enhanced healing. Some grant domain spells and some of the domain ones grant arcane spells; ie Fire domain grants fireball. For the thief roll I'm looking for someone to "specialize" in disable device. WotR gets crazy with mythic so I am purposely looking to challenge the group and to encourage creativity. As has been mentioned there are path abilities that give some of the missing class skills. I think arcane spells may be the hardest to deal with but there are several ways to get some arcane spells. Archmage may be a hard path to fulfill but dual path may be the way to go depending on how "arcane" you end up.

@GM: Are alternate race traits a go? As in, for example, Sacred Tattoo.

On a case by case basis. I will allow that one.

Orodhen wrote:

I know it originally said Core only, but is a Virtuoso Bravo Paladin of Shelyn using the Bladed Brush feat ok?

Since the feat is specific to your deity and doesn't allow dex to damage I'll allow it.

That's what Mythic Weapon Finesse is for.

That's a shame. Guess whoever picks archmage will probably have to dual-path then (if that's even allowed?). Filling in the mechanical role with battlefield control and utility will certainly be much easier with another path (for example trickster).

Can I go Irorian Paladin and pick Racial Heritage (Gnome) + Bewildering Koan to work towards filling the role of battlefield control? Or alternatively just be a gnome instead of human with racial heritage. There are a few other bluff abilties from trickster it could work well with.

Jereru wrote:

@GM: Are alternate race traits a go? As in, for example, Sacred Tattoo.

On a case by case basis. I will allow that one.

Alright, thank you.

Yes, I understand we're all potential frontliners. I expect to be the dedicated one, trying to look for ways to keep myself fighting close to the enemies. Less spell dependant, more self healing and, hopefully, more deadly.

Can I go Irorian Paladin and pick Racial Heritage (Gnome) + Bewildering Koan to work towards filling the role of battlefield control? Or alternatively just be a gnome instead of human with racial heritage. There are a few other bluff abilties from trickster it could work well with.

I would allow this as a gnome.

Don Guy here. Ready to rip and tear!

Curious, very curious, Looks like I need to refresh my memory on the six campaign traits: DM Trawets mentioned the classes we are to fill: Fighter Thief, Mage, Cleric and bard....

Hey DM Trawets, if we are selected will we be able to edit some of our skills or traits to be able to synergyze a little?

So far:
Ellioti: Paladin into trickster path
Oyzar, Irorian Paladin and pick Racial Heritage (Gnome)
Aldizog, Sacred servant (arcane}
Cuàn Vindicive Bastard
YoricksRequiem, the bard role...
chunky04
MayveAvengr, half-orc Redeemer paladin
The Archlich Vindictive Bastard
Nathanael Love,Æthelweard Tinytoes, Hospitaler Paladin, Hierophant
Spazmodeus, ranged specialist Paladin
Jereru, full melee Paladin
Orodhen, Virtuoso Bravo Paladin of Shelyn using the Bladed Brush feat
Phntm888
Don Guy

I have no desire to step on anyones toes, if you have a clear campain trait in mind please identify it :)

Hey DM Trawets, if we are selected will we be able to edit some of our skills or traits to be able to synergyze a little?

The reason I didn't ask for skills is so the group can come to some consensus on who has what and I will allow some changing of other things if needed as well.

I'm also considering a Virtuoso Bravo Paladin - I have concept in mind for a double deity Paladin that can meet the Core only requirements, and looking towards Trickster role.

Hoping to do the build tonight after work.

I have a concept that I want to test out. Gnome Faithful Wanderer Paladin.

Will do some work on it tonight/tomorrow morning to flesh out the details. Some of the options aren't Core, but will help with being a Trickster.

Vindictive Bastard out the window, check.

Two other questions then:
First, does the no multiclassing extend to Prestige Classes? To be specific I'm looking at the Crimson Templar and the Scar Seeker as ideas. To me those two feel like Paladins flavored towards their specific Empyreal Lords. The latter even gets some Paladin class features, and new uses for them.

Second, does the allowance for feats outside of core that fit your class features extend towards races? I'm asking because there are quite a few Tiefling feats dealing with, well, dealing with fiends (in an unfriendly manner) but they are all outside the core.

Seems like there are a lot of tricksters being submitted... @DM: Are you sure you won't consider multiple people of the same path as long as they have different focus?

I'm thinking to focus on battlefield control and knowledge, which is typically covered by a wizard. As a gnome irorian I can pick of breath of knowledge and defic obedience to really pump up knoweldges even without having them in class.

Can I start as middle aged, gnome get middle aged at 100, which is the requirement for breath of knowledge?

Alright, what I'm going to do is, instead of asking individually for every feature, present you here the basic choices. You tell me what's kosher and what's not and I'll change accordingly.

Bron Frostbreath

Archetype: Vanilla Paladin
Race: Half Orc
Alternate Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo, Skilled, Fey Thoughts
Traits: Stolen Fury, Fate's Favored
Feats: Fey Foundling

The background is in process of being written, will have it ready later today.

I reconsidered and will build a Halfling going into Dual Path Trickster/Hierophant. It's just so much more thematic, for the most roguish party member to be a halfling.
For my halfling, I kindly ask for the folloing Racial traits:
Fey Thoughts, because trickster gotta have some class skills
Fleet of Foot, because trickster needs speed to scout

Have made an attempt at a build and a backstory that fits the criteria in the OP.

I present Duron Daygen as my application - all info should be in his profile.

Okay, here we go. I've got an Elven Paladin of Yuelral I'm submitting for the arcane role. There are two different ability score distributions, as I haven't quite decided if I want to go an archery route, a finesse weapon route, or a reach build for some battlefield control. If you want me to pick one, I can do so.

I'll be maxing his Use Magic Device skill so he can cast spells that way, and Arcane Dabbler means he can even do magic item identification (once per day).

I'm building now a Dwarf Stonelord on the Mythic Path of Guardian ("Exposed to Awfulness" trait). Building him to have some reach and cleave, probably. :) Still working on some details on my side, but having fun with it. I'd love to be able to work towards the dwarven racial feats, but since they're not on the core rulebook, I could only hope for the GM approval. None of them are truly gamebreaking and they're fairly thematic.