we have just started this AP and like it so far, and I am prepping for the next few sessions and have some questions around talking with Nualia.
The AP mentions that Audrani would coach them on what to say, but I have no clue what to put there right now apart from a few basic questions... just looking for inspiration I guess...
Judging from her interactions in Return of the Runelords, she would likely test things out to see the PCs' opinions on Nualia first. Depending on their answer, she would gently but firmly nudge them towards not going so hard on her. She's careful not to draw people to anger, but she isn't going to keep her opinions to herself like she would during her rough period. That said, if PCs remain adamant about going hard on Nualia, she would leave them to their devices. Ultimately, she acts like a wallflower but does love to get into debates with the right topic (eg religion) and is willing to agree to disagree.
So an adventure that starts with a Thanatos Daemon taking level 4-5 players to Abaddon, with their only hope out is to make it to the Awaiting-Consumption. Or some other place.
Just putting in my pitch for a Deamon Four Horsemen cult idea alongside this.
Its extra weird if Naderi is still in supplemental table. Maybe they wanted to provide alternate theory or disconnect Naderi from Shelyn/Urgathoa thing? After all there isn't it was never explicitly canon just an in universe theory
Naderi iscalso associated with Zyphus who is trying to push her towards the exil alignment and he managed to get a page himself. Would have been nice to have notes on all the Inner Sea Faiths from 1e.
So out of the deities in Inner Sea Faiths, Naderi is the only one unaccounted for. Is she among those deities lost/missing or is she still around via God's & Magic?
Nothing says that she is lost, so she is not lost. Also, you'll want to keep an eye out for Divine Mysteries's digital Supplement PDF that Luis says Paizo is planning to release in the coming weeks!
Is that the PDF that will be available le on the 20th or will that one have additional information?
So out of the deities in Inner Sea Faiths, Naderi is the only one unaccounted for. Is she among those deities lost/missing or is she still around via God's & Magic?
So judging by what I saw in a review of the book, Naderi and Gyronna are the only deities in Inner Sea Faiths without a page description. Is there anything extra for those two deities?
I asked if there would be an inquisitor class in one of the panels... and I actually got an answer!
It turns out there are plans to making it a new archetype of the ranger class: the vindicator. Imrijka will return under this. I think it's a cool way to rework it since 1e had builds where you can get feats based on your favored weapon.
I asked if there would be an inquisitor class in one of the panels... and I actually got an answer!
It turns out there are plans to making it a new archetype of the ranger class: the vindicator. Imrijka will return under this. I think it's a cool way to rework it since 1e had builds where you can get feats based on your favored weapon.
Welp, it's guaranteed I'll be impacted by this now. And now I'm thinking the fall of a sun god may actually point to Sarenrae. If not her NY second guesses would be Gorum, Gozreh and Torag.
I think Torag has the potential for being more popular for humans than it appears in Golarion. Defense and creation are pretty broad terms that should give us plenty of reason to worship Torag for humans. We just haven't seen that many of them in the world compared to Calistria.
So the party originally consisted of 5 rivals, with one of them dying in their previous adventure, a cleric named Jhyosa. Was that NPC a victim of the OGL debacle in a sense?
I personally don't have any of the core 20 I hate. Just those that could use some more love. These will be in order of most to least liked.
S Tier
Spoiler:
Desna:The mixture of domains involving luck, travel and the stars end up being the perfect mix for a deity that sets herself apart from others. She's also the most proactive of the core 20, someone who gets things done and more likely than not will clap back if provoked. She's basically an eldritch abomination in the form of a fairy who's pretty cool to hang out with if you're on her good side. And one wherevher impulsiveness can lead her to mistakes. A great choice for adventurers as they often involve traveling all over the place.
Asmodeus: For an evil deity, it's important to have someone who's despicable but also one you'd love to hate. Asmodeua fits that build perfectly. Built from the main antagonistic country, his history goes back to almost the beginning. He sees himself as the protagonist, ranging from his arguments against free will to betraying his best friend and building an entirely different society set to his own ideals. Yet on occasions he almost seems amiable enough to trust... to an extent. This allows for a wide range of characters from brutal dictators to an evil PC you can't help but admit to being an ally. Yet ultimately, he and his followers believe in one mantra above all: Amadeus always wins. He is the Xanatos of Golarion. No matter which way you think he's won, he will find a way to turn it to his benefit. This makes for an infuriating villain, and one that makes their unraveling all the more satisfying.
Urgathoa: She is whatsoever else would build into a boring villain hell bent on turning everyone undead and clips it on its head. More than anyone, she and her followers would deny that she is evil. All she wanted to do was live forever and live out her life to the fullest. Bringing out Pharasma's wrath was only a subject of hurt feelings. She's the person who would argue necromancy is a noble cause and other practices such as enchantment are the truly bad spells [strikethrough]even if it involves the unwilling entrapment of souls[/sktrikethrough]. Yet she also has room for those who do want to kill and subjugate the living. Ultimately, she calls for the benefit of undead-kind, regardless of the consequences on others. This also leaves a good variety of villains as well as a cooperative PC under the right circumstances.
Cayden Calien The archetypal adventurer God who lucked his way into goodhood. He is the embodiment of a player's tendency to devise wild and wacky adventures and bullrun their way with a chaotic smile. There are some negative aspects players may pick up as brazen drunks who hit on anything that moves and others may feel like that is what he's about, but information emphatically rejects those assumptions. He's just fun to play as and it's pretty easy for anyone to make a character with him to mind.
A Tier
Spoiler:
Pharasma: For a well-worn trope of fantasy, Pharasma does a great job in that. She sets herself apart from the start by being he oldest and potentially most powerful deity of the core 20. She's impartial, meaning you could have many different interactions with her. Thay said, she still had her bias', mainly her hatred of the undead. She can have a presence on basically any place. While she has a typical look and personality in her followers, clever players can twist things around fairly well.Se can work as a PC, ally and even an antagonist that PCs may have to deal with. She fills an important niche in Pathfither and has a nice group of characters to help her out.
Calistria: What could have been seen as an unfortunately immature look into sexuality has evolved into some of the most complicated and interesting deities out there. While the most people focus on her lust aspects, she also has other distinct aspects in trickery and Revenge. And followers can follow any combination they want. You can also have them in various fews with other groups... and their own. Add in the element of being the head elven deity and you have one of the most diverse range of followers of the core 20. I do think the other aspects of her portfolio should be used, but I don't want the first one to go away.
Norgorber: A God who's so secretive not only no one knows what he looks like we have not 1 but 4 different groups of followers. How's that for complication. The possibilities as antagonists are endless from corrupted officials to thief guild and poisoners to straight up serial Killers. Ans imagine all these groups either helping each other... or fightingamong themselves. I also liked that the aspects had different alignments back when that was a thing so they could technically play as a PC spy. Other than that or your typical loner rogue, the choices for PCs can be limiting though not impossible.
Lamashtu: Chaotic evil deities can be harrowing as they can be the most disturbing ones to handle. Yet the top demon has wnough wriggle room for any setting. You can go from generic priestess that wants to destroy a city to some truly heinous acts depending on whether your group is okay with that. It also makes sense that she's the most sensible out of all the demons even if there's still tention among them. Shecalso has some classic rivalries with the likes of Desna and Asmodeus. And she might be amiable enough as an evil PC with some builds.
Sarenrae: The archetypal Big Good of the Core 20. Her history as being one of the first students of the old gods and dealing with his death at the hands of Asmodeus as well as that has shaped hwr thinking over time is just fascinating. She is quick to forgive yet can passionate strike down those who refuse and it makes for some of the most interesting dynamics with all the other gods. As for her aspects and followers... I'm not quite as interested in them. Despite the varied range of her domains of healing and the sun, it doesn't leave as much room for variety. I guess it would more depend on the individual rather than the goddess they worship. Part of it was hope for bringing back the Cult of the Dawnflower... just without the slavery.
Abadar: One look at Abadar and you might see him as a money-obsessed greed-dog that does whatever it takes to be rich... and yet Abadar himself does seem boring at first glance. But that's only scratching the surface. His followers can have the full range of doing what's needed to advance civilization and maintain settlements. Sure you can have greedy followers, but you can also have generous ones who want citizens to excel and thrive. It leaves players with many paths on how to build a follower as well as create different kinds of conflict. We just need more to do for him.
Shelyn: As others said, it's nice to see a deity of love that's not vain in that sense. As such, her followers can try and do the same with helping others deal with love (and not just typical monogamous love) as well Las seek it themselves. They also have the chance to have a number of professions as a goddess of the arts and beauty. She also holds hidden strength, wielding a non-typical weapon and her relationship with her fallen brother. She and her followers do tend to be a bit one note, but it's fun seeing creative ideas on how her followers help others. She also has a cool rivalry with Calistria and likely trade followers between love and lust. I'll miss that if either of them get offed.
Zon-Kuthon: He gets the most of his praise from Nidal, a truly bizarre and brutal theocracy with like-minded folks. You'll know what when you see one... which can be an issue when trying to think outside the typical follower (Laori aside). His nation also mirrors his enemies such as Deana and Sivanah as his sister Shelyn with whom he has a fascinating relationship. I guess another issue is that he doesn't leave as much room for cooperation as much as Asmodeus would imo. I know he probably has the most number of non-evil followers out of the evil ones in APs and it does allude to his relationship with Shelyn, but it doesn't feel like there's much room for budging.
B Tier
Spoiler:
Irori: Irori on his own doesn't seem like such. Though he's one of a few number of mortals who achieved godhood on his own, there's not much else to talk about him besides his brother. And if you play his clergy as it is, it can feel flat. Thankfully, it's not the only way to play it out. He can range from a traveling monk doing what he can to help others to an arrogant kung fu guy who rules with force. And that can come in conflict with someone who worships him. So you're not too limited in thinking of a followerer.
Iomedae: Her journey into being the newest deity of the Core 20 is rife with interesting stories. And her followers do allow for a little more wriggle room personality wise. It just feels like she's been given a bad hand in Golarion. None of it has been her fault, but there's been too many instances where the actions of she and her followers have blown up in their faces. I think it's gotten more to do with the world where there's just been so many stories of her followers failing to live up to the ideal... including Iomedae herself eyes Wrath of the Righteous it makes me wish we had more instances of pure heroism from her followers. Keeping up with the typical paladin isn't a bad thing.
Nethys: dhow he became God by way of being a literal. God-emperor is cool. His dual nature is also nice as well as how they rank their followers by the amount of magic they wield, setting the tone for some arrogant bad guys. But it feels like he should be more of a big deal than he actually is. Not everyone who uses magic should worship him, but he doesn't seem to command as much of a presence as you'd think for casters.
GorumYou can say the same with the God of War, except he doesn't have a cool backstop to go with him. He also took a hit when clerics couldn't be CG anymore (thankfully it won't matter anymore in the remaster version or he would be in C tier). I just think there's a lane for Gorum fighters who fight evil for the challenge rather than for the greater good (hence his presence in Elysium and the late nation of Vigil). Otherwise he merely fights to instigate war... which doesn't leave much for creativity.
C Tier
Spoiler:
Torag: Torah had potential if there was more of a focus of his other aspects such as creating armor and defenses as well as construction. But as it stands he's only been used as the Dwarven God. I think that pantheon is interesting, but he should be more than that.
Erastil: He's been pegged as the stubborn guy who'd close down the dance hall for the ruckus it causes. While there's more aspects of that for him, it doesn't offer more for him than that. Both Ketephys and Jaidi end up being more interested than him as a result.
Gozreh:As others have said, they fulfills their role as the nature God and not much else in that regard. The dual nature ends up being less interesting than Nethys. People aren't restricted in what they can be, but there's not much to talk about besides interactions with other deities.
D Tier
Spoiler:
Rovagug Now the backstop and how he's the greatest threat to the universe? That's cool. Yet it makes creating an NPC without being an antagonist almost impossible. And the ones that are end up being unexciting bringers of chaos. It may be why we haven't really had a Big Bad worshipper of Rovagug in an AP. Despite his importance, this would be the only deity I wouldn't miss at all. Either him or maybe Goezreh if no one could replace him.
Honorable Non-Core Deities
Grandmother Spider- for being the perfect main got for the expanse and troll against Asmodeus.
Achaekek;: A god with his own set of assassins look cool.
Alswta: For fair negotiators.
Besmara: Cool pirate queen who's pretty loose in wh she calls followers.
Naderi: Cool tragic deity who herself and followers can go an number of ways depending on the environment.
Milani: Representing pure freedom fighters.
Zyphus: For being the most wonderful troll out there.
Seizure and Tsukiyo: Such a wonderful love story.
Lymnieris: Nuff said
Black Butterfly: A wonderfully weird emyreal lord
Kelinahat: A paladin spy just feels awesome
Dispater: The most amiable Archdevil around
Ardad Lili: Perfect for manipulative yet tragic women in Cheliax
Ceyanan: I like someone who takes a more proactive role of helping souls.
The Pale Horse: As above, yet with more force and is a literal horse.
Charon: For his unique blend of death. Of both body and soul. Also one of the oldest beings in the universe.
Okay, weird question, but does anyone have an idea of how Nikolaus Okerra would respond to the party while at the Tanager Jubilee?
He would recognize them even if they were diplomatic with them. Wouldn't he think something's up if they introduced themselves as the Betony heirs? Or would he just be like "This isn't really my business." and not mind if they were diplomatic towards him initially.
It would depend on how he interacted with the PCs. I don't think he would be the type to be immediasuspicious as long as Bartleby believes they're legit, but if they were rude to him or showed clearly chaotic behaviors he wouldn't take kindly to them. He's not the biggest fan of Bartleby either and if the PCs seem like they're capable of running the area he wouldn't pay too much mind. If they told him they lied he may get upset at them though.
Another issue I can see if that the nature of Urgathoa's followers being more pro-undead than anti-living. She's pretty lackadaisical with people and only has enemies to those who call her out for her horrific habits.
Do any new deity of death may end up being worse as they'd be more pliable to being more proactive in converting people to unhealthy like The Whispering Way.
I hope we get some notable missing deities that didn't make the cut the previous time around as well as some new artwork for those who don't have one yet.
Reposting those I put in the Gods & Magic thread: Ssila'meshnik (for Il'setsya), Ceyannan, Set, Abhoth, Mhar, Cthulhu, Arqueros,Reymenda, Shemhazai and Kelinahat as well as a revised Hadregash.
Ooh! That's very, very interesting! I will need to figure out what, if anything, I want to do with that.
The Sandpoint, Light of the Lost Coast module, Shayliss went by as a woman by day but was a male zeolot vigilante of Calistria by night.
Spoiler:
My theory is that Shayliss ended up loving both the idea of being coveted while during that time in the basement but also the idea of coveting which they tested out under a more masculine look.
Nethys better than all the DnD magic gods confirmed. He gets also survive when they usually don't.
On a serious note, while Nethys didn't invent magic, I can see his hubris and death to cause magic in its current state to not function. Maybe another deity can take up that mantle in the future.
I think that Shalelu was one of "those" rangers for which "favored ennemy" meant "racist against". I remember that in Jade Regent, one of the thing that made you lose romance point with her was "pro goblin comment". All this to say, I'm pretty sure her hatred of Bruthazmus is simply because he's a bugbear that she faced but haven't managed to kill yet.
I'm pretty sure it's because Bruthazmus killed her mom and goes after elven people in general. At least for him.
I wonder if there a plan to kill off one of the Core 20 gods from the start?
Aroden's case? or "Pathfinder and Starfinder are separated".
Neither. I was talking about narrative. I'm leaning on that it does, especially since we seem due for a new person to achieve divinity through the Starstone.
1. What is your character’s name? Lily Le. Like the flowers.
2. How old is your character? 21 years
3. What would somebody see at first glance (i.e. height, weight, skin color, eye color, hair color, physique, race, and visible equipment)? A Tian human woman of average height, slender physique and black, straight hair that extends to her shoulders. Likes to wear dresses, but settles for pants when adventuring.
4. What additional attributes would be noticed upon meeting the character (i.e. Speech, mannerisms)? She's highly friendly and it shows in most conversations. She's also excited about many things, including being in combat.
5. Where was your character born? Where were you raised? By who? In Almas, capital city of Andoran alongside her parents.
6. Who are your parents? Are they alive? What do they do for a living? Both are alive and well. They both work as herbalists at their homes. Their daughter... did not take up that profession well.
7. Do you have any other family or friends? She is an only child, but she made many friends back in her own home, just none that stand out.
8. What is your character’s marital status? Kids? Single with no kids
9. What is your character’s alignment? CG
10. What is your character’s moral code?
11. Does your character have goals?
12. Is your character religious? Not particularly, but she does take a liking to Sun Wukong, Kofusachi, Cayden Calien and Desna
13. What are your character’s personal beliefs? Bring happiness to others to those who need it, make sure to stand up for what you believe in and don't be afraid to chase your desires.
14. Does your character have any personality quirks (i.e. anti-social, arrogant, optimistic, paranoid)? She's generally an optimist with a bright personality. Gets excited whenever there's combat unless it gets bad where that may turn to anger.
15. Why does your character adventure? Why did your character accept the job? The job she currently took up is as a counselor so that she could help people adjust to the new world. As for herself, she was seeking a change of pace from the city life as well as a hint of danger to keep things exciting. That and helping others where she can.
16. How does your character view his/her role as an adventurer? She will provide damage-dealing spells as a caster as well as control with telekinesis and psychic spells to disrupt her opponents' tactics with either area control or debuffing spells.
17. Does your character have any distinguishing marks (birth-marks, scars, deformities)? She has a slight underbite.
18. How does your character get along with others? Very well actually. She maintains some degree of friendly relationship if possible.
19. Is there anything that your character hates? People who seek to control and manipulate others draw her ire particularly. In generally, she would prefer people to make their own choices over others who may force it on them.
20. Is there anything that your character fears? Despite her unthusiasm, she gets spooked pretty easily.
Character relations:
She would likely love talking with Eamon Caranth. Erastil may not be her favorite deity, but she would happily argue faith with someone like him.
Luetin Calewick seems like the person that thinks he's slick with people. She may follow along at times, but she sees through the facade.
She may try to ask Lyra Heatherly to join in on surveying the island if only to experience the thrill of the island.
Most concerning may be with Ramona Avandth as she'd seek out to schedule times to talk to see how she's faring mentally while on the island. Everyone's free to counsel with her but it seems like Ramona will need it more than anyone else.
Cities of Golarion will likely be the most relavant book.
Spoiler:
It has an article on Vigil that goes over plenty of places as well as NPCs, some of which aren't mentioned in the AP. Feel free to add them into the story however you want.
I'm bringing in a character I had from a previous recruitment page. Lily Le, female human sorcerer of the psychic bloodline who becomes the cheery therapist for the group.
Crunch:
Lily Le
CG female (Tian-Shu) human sorcerer (psychic bloodline) 1
Init +2
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Defense
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AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp:7 (1d6)
Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +3;
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee: Quarterstaff +0 (1d6x2)
Ranged: Light crossbow +2 (1d8/19x20)
Statistics
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STR 10
DEX 14
CON 11
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 18
Base Atk +0; CMB 0; CMD 12
Sorcerer Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
At 1st level, you can overwhelm the minds of those nearby. You can target one creature within 30 feet that you can see; that creature must succeed at a Will saving throw (DC = 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier) or it takes 1d6 points of damage + 1 point for every 2 sorcerer levels you possess and becomes shaken for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
I have my copy. It's a great book, answering a number of the questions I've had about the organization. The art remains great, and there's one particular piece I would like to highlight.
I'd like to know which other deities will get a writeup. Most of the relevant ones already have articles, some in multiple books. There aren't that many ones without a writeup that come to mind.
Arshea, Besmara, Calistria, Cayden Cailean, Chaldira, Desna, Grandmother Spider, Jin Li, Lubaiko, Marishi, Milani, Nivi Rhombodazzle, Picoperi, Thisamet, and Yelayne each get major entries. :)
Oh, and there are four new pantheons!
That looks like there's some empyreal lords getting some love as well as a couple new deities. Nice.
I'd like to know which other deities will get a writeup. Most of the relevant ones already have articles, some in multiple books. There aren't that many ones without a writeup that come to mind.
