I'll have my level up completed tonight. Thanks for the suggestions! I'm debating whether I should use numen to give my hat an at-will light orison, rather than just stocking up on sunrods. Or do I need Imbue Item for custom things like that?
Has Korynne had a chance to look over Wil's journal?
I'm debating whether I should use numen to give my hat an at-will light orison, rather than just stocking up on sunrods. Or do I need Imbue Item for custom things like that?
You can use numen up to "par" (900) by just declaring you've cast light on your hat so many times it now just glows all the time, or upon command, or whatever. Command-activated light would cost 900 numen x 0.5 (spell level) x 1 (caster level) = 450 numen, only half of your total.
If you had the Imbue Item feat you could use ranks in Craft (needlework) to make a magic hat that sheds light on command; it would count towards your maximum numen, rather than "par," because you spent feats, skills, and time to craft it yourself.
Has Korynne had a chance to look over Wil's journal?
Level up completed!
Max HP: half hit die + favored class = +4
BAB: +1
Saving throws: +1 Intuition and Will ...?
Spell capacity: 2nd; new 1st level spell added to prayerbook: Murderous Command
Archivist bonus feat: Selective Channeling
Numen:
Command-activated light hat: 450 numen
Scroll collection: (will calculate this once I have them all)
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murderous command + unwitting ally = HILARITY
Okay, second level achieved. Kirth would you mind checking out Uros stats to see if I missed anything?Looks good! Your delayed damage pool is 2 now, and don't forget that while raging your DR increases to 2/-.
Thanks! I hadn't seen the double DR thing. I stuck my favored class bonus in HP, by the way.
Separate question, when we leveled, do the hp that we gain from the level go to our current hp? So should Uros hit points be at 8 or 25?
Also! How does healing over night work?
More questions! Earlier, our patron gave us 200gp. Does that somehow count against our mojo or is that separate?
Separate question, when we leveled, do the hp that we gain from the level go to our current hp? So should Uros hit points be at 8 or 25?
I'm going to assume you're going to hang out at the inn long enough for Korynne's channels and/or time to heal you to full, unless you want to get an earlier start, in which case the new hp apply but accumulated damage also remains.
Also! How does healing over night work?
It's normally (level + Con mod) hp per night, but if Korynne set your wounds before she started drinking, you'd recover a number of hp equal to her Heal check results instead.
More questions! Earlier, our patron gave us 200gp. Does that somehow count against our mojo or is that separate?
That's just money -- you can use it on whatever you want. It doesn't count against your mojo, unless you spend it on stuff that requires a mojo cost -- i.e., mwk or permanent magic items. Otherwise, you can spend the whole 200 on hookers and blow if you want, and it would have no effect on your magic item capacity.
Has Korynne had a chance to look over Wil's journal?
The journal is written in Baklunish (which, for future reference, is not so uncommon that it would be hard to find a Baklunish-Common dictionary in Sasserine). Reading the journal using your comprehend languages spell, you realize it's basically a combination religious tract/kung fu manual. The word "Zuoken" is in there a lot -- this confused you at first, because it's not translated by the spell, but a quick Knowledge (the planes) check reminds you that Zuoken is the Baklunish demigod of physical and mental mastery; he's a servant of the goddess Xan Yae.
murderous command + unwitting ally = HILARITY
I'll try to work on getting my save DCs up. :D
Speaking of blowing our gold on parties and drugs, what's the gold cost for a drunken night of celebrating being not dead and eaten by zombies?
Speaking of blowing our gold on parties and drugs, what's the gold cost for a drunken night of celebrating being not dead and eaten by zombies?
A banquet + a bottle of wine + a gallon of ale runs 202 sp (20.2 gp) total per person. Your stay at the inn is 5 sp per person per day.
Re: saving throws, I'm going to recommend we use a standardized save progression of +1/2 CR. Your class' "good" saves simply get a +2 class bonus on top of that. This helps smooth things out, so that the +1/3 levels saves don't become impossible to make.
I'll mark off an even 25 for tips, damages, lost change, and some upfront pay for the room.
So our saves won't go up, because now we're CR 1 creatures, but they'll all increase by 1 next level?
So our saves won't go up, because now we're CR 1 creatures, but they'll all increase by 1 next level?
You've got PC numen/gear, so you're considered to be CR 2. All your saves would have gone up by +1 when you hit 2nd level.
If I wanted to get Breast Plate with a reduced armor check penalty, how would I calculate that?
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Oh, we were talking a bit up thread about the differences between 5th ed and 3.5/Pathfinder. Well somebody actually started a new thread about that very subject.
Ch 6, "Enhancement Bonuses." ACP is 100 numen x the check penalty mitigation squared.
Standard breastplate: -5 ACP, 0 numen.
Better ones: -4 ACP, 100 numen; -3 ACP, 400 numen; -2 ACP, 900 numen; -1 ACP, 1,600 numen; -0 ACP, 2,500 numen.
Note that, for every 3 ranks in Endurance you have, your check penalty drops by 1, making it easier to get to 0 without spending too much on it.
Ch 6, "Enhancement Bonuses." ACP is 100 numen x the check penalty mitigation squared.
Standard breastplate: -5 ACP, 0 numen.
Better ones: -4 ACP, 100 numen; -3 ACP, 400 numen; -2 ACP, 900 numen; -1 ACP, 1,600 numen; -0 ACP, 2,500 numen.Note that, for every 3 ranks in Endurance you have, your check penalty drops by 1, making it easier to get to 0 without spending too much on it.
So if I spent my 900 numen, I could get Breast Plate that would be +6 AC, -2 ACP. Is that right? If so, is that okay for Uro to pick up?
Thanks (for the 100th time) for answering all of these questions.
0 for the +6 to AC (standard breastplate), 900 for reducing the ACP from 5 to 2 (3 steps). So, yes, and yes.
P.S. I should be thanking you for agreeing to use these goofy rules! Answering questions is par for the course.
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I do really like the numen/mojo rules. It's convenient like a magic mart but basing it on being cool instead of shopping feels better. Plus it means we can afford more parties!
For Uro's armor, you have two choices:
(1) Plunk down 200 gp (and invest the 900 numen) and declare you bought the armor in town, and that the smith fitted it to you personally, thus accounting for the lower ACP.
(2) Come up with a story where this armor came from, what it's made of, etc. that fits into the ongoing narrative. Spend the 900 numen and ignore the base armor cost in gold. This saves some cash for parties, but requires a much higher degree of creativity on your part!
Jym is leveled correctly except for her his numen expenditure. I updated skills (separating regular and bonus ranks), corrected the saves and attack bonuses, and overall learned the rules a little bit better. I'm re-reading the mojo section and deciding how to spend it tomorrow.
E for effort!
So what steps do we want to take next, once Wil is feeling less unconscious-from-bodily-horror? We probably found Shefton's murdered body when we left Parrot Island. Since that lead is cold, and the murder unlikely to be investigated very thoroughly in Shadowshore, I was thinking we might try the Seekers' Lodge. Hopefully the parents Vanderboren left on good terms...
Yeah, I meant to ask about Shefton. Kirth, can you confirm if we know he's dead?
Uro can. He'd have to practically step over Shefton's corpse, on his way back up to the trapdoor from the beach.
I thought about Shefton last night actually. I was thinking, if he still has our payment on him, we could either use it to bury him or give it to his family.
What do you all think?
If you rifled the corpse's pockets your way off of Parrot Island, you'd have found your money there -- Vanthus presumably didn't have time to search Shefton after killing him and still have time to catch up with you at the trapdoor.
I'm not sure we ever negotiated an explicit amount in text. Just that we would pay him.
Do we want to restart our search for Vanthus before the next day?
I'm all for leaving the money we gave to Shefton to cover his burial costs, but Jym will advise against collecting his body right now. I'm all for communicating with Shefton's next of kin and telling them where the body is, but Vanthus should remain our priority.
I'm all for re-searching for Vanthus after we're all healed and have the opportunity to buy more supplies.
Also, Jym will write an overly-long message that reveals frustrating little information to Lady Vanderboren, writing that Vanthus found out that we're searching for him, but so far, we've survived his dirty tricks. She should rest assured that we're still on the hunt.
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Okay, Magic Pastry Pants!
Jym's recent harrowing experiences, causing him to hide in the dark... perhaps for as long as two hours without a decent meal, were survived mainly because he had the foresight to stuff his pants pockets full of pastries. While Gwl was able to feast on raw crab meat, he and Korynne only had Jym's pastries for sustenance. (Uro went unconscious from hunger, probably.)
Subconsciously, Jym's anxiety and hunger directed his numen to transform the only available food on Jym's person into something that provides nourishment as if it were a normal meal. Modeled after the goodberry spell, once per day, and assuming his pockets are stocked with some sort of sugary or high-carbohydrate snack, Jym's Magic Pastry Pants will imbue 2d4 of said snacks with enough nourishment as if it were a normal meal for a Medium creature (or a regualr-sized Jym). The goodberry spell description also says "The berry also cures 1 point of damage when eaten, subject to a maximum of 8 points of such curing in any 24-hour period," so let's throw that in there, too.
Kirth: Approve?
Kirth: Approve?
YES!!!
1st level Goodberry x CL 1st x 900 (command-activated) x 1/5 (1/day) = 180 numen. Cheap!
I misread the "multiply cost by (1/uses per day)" line. I thought that the pants total would be the full 900.
So, since I'm so below par, I might look at adding a saving throw bonus. I'm not sure how to do a continuous resistance effect since the duration (1 minute, flat) isn't covered in the Spell-Effects/Continuous section on p. 605.
.5 lvl resistance x CL 1st x 1,000 (continuous) x [1 minute] = 500 x [1 minute] = ?
Should that formula be re-written as a +4 enhancement bonus because the spell affects all four saving throws?
Also, how would I emulate the 10th level general ability for bonded items? This wouldn't necessarily be applied to an actual Bonded Object.
(I'm assuming this one is too expensive for 1st level, but I might be interested.)
After the events on Parrot Island, Uro enjoyed a few drinks with Jym, Gwl and Kory, though didn’t stay up celebrating long. He was exhausted. After getting to his room and collapsing on the bed, he lay there awake. The fight with the zombies still troubled him. How could he let such weak, slow moving creatures get the best of him? He had almost died and what was worse, it nearly cost his friends their lives as well.
Troubled though his mind was, his body won out and he fell deeply asleep. In his dreams, a woman came to him, all jade green with flowing white hair and pointed ears that drove up through her mane like spikes. He knew instantly that this was Gwynharwyf, The Whirling Fury. Wordlessly, she lashed out at him with one of her dual scimitars. It struck with the speed of lightning, but… she turned her blade at the last moment. She wasn’t lashing out at Uro… but teaching him? Over and over Gwynharwyf repeated her attacks, pumping her scimitars in whirling rhythmic patterns. Over what seemed like days, the orc slowly began to learn when to parry, when to block, when to shift subtly using his armor to absorb glancing blows. It was after this last part, that he swore he could see a slight smile creep into the corner of her mouth. Just then however, he could hear something. A low croaking sound, like a frog, followed by “Help me”.
Uro’s eyes snapped open as he sits up in bed. ”Gwl??”
I'm not sure how I would calculate it, but isn't a constant resistance spell essentially a cloak of resistance +1? If you made it x times per day, you could probably bring it down from the usual 1000 gp price. But maybe things work differently in KF since there are more saves.
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Numerical bonuses are never priced per the spell rules. They are always priced according to the enhancement bonus rules.
enhancement cost = (bonus)^2 * modifier
resistance modifier: 1000
+1 resistance = (1)^2 * 1000 = 1000
Gwlybwr is exactly right. The docs that most of you are looking at aren't really clear enough about that, which is my fault. In the latest revision, I went ahead and actually spelled out a detailed order of operations for pricing items, with examples and stuff. I'll try and remember to copy-paste it into a post here tonight.
Yes -- generally, as long as you follow the rules and come up with a story for it, equipment is almost self-approving.
Also, how would I emulate the 10th level general ability for bonded items? This wouldn't necessarily be applied to an actual Bonded Object.
(I'm assuming this one is too expensive for 1st level, but I might be interested.)
See Gwlybwr's post re: how to price resistance bonus items, stat bonus items, etc.
For an item that returns to your hand, we could use the instant summons spell as a base.
7th level x CL 13th x 900 (command-activated) = 81,900, which is ungodly expensive, but that's for at-will. For 1/day (because, really, are you going to accidentally leave it somewhere else more often than that?), we divide by 5 = 16,380 numen.
Instant Summons works no matter where the item is, even on other planes. If you wanted to reduce that range and reduce the cost still further, we could work it out using metamagic feats.
Numerical bonuses are never priced per the spell rules. They are always priced according to the enhancement bonus rules.
enhancement cost = (bonus)^2 * modifier
resistance modifier: 1000
+1 resistance = (1)^2 * 1000 = 1000
Gwlybwr is exactly right.
Okay, thanks to both of you for the explanation.
What if all I want is a bonus to Jym's Intuition saving throw? Could I take the above 1,000 and split it by four? (I.e., spend 250 numen to add +1 to the Intuition save?)
The docs that most of you are looking at aren't really clear enough about that, which is my fault. In the latest revision, I went ahead and actually spelled out a detailed order of operations for pricing items, with examples and stuff. I'll try and remember to copy-paste it into a post here tonight.
That would be awesome. Thanks.
What if all I want is a bonus to Jym's Intuition saving throw? Could I take the above 1,000 and split it by four? (I.e., spend 250 numen to add +1 to the Intuition save?)
Normally I'd allow it, but it would make record-keeping all kinds of difficult, if you later get a +1 to everything. I'd rather treat that as a feat: price of 2,000 x minimum skill level for that effect. You only need to be 1st level to take the Deep Intuition feat, so you'd get +2 to intuition saves for 2,000 numen, and it's reasonable to scale that down to +1 for 1,000.
If you want a save bonus vs. illusions specifically, prestige specialist is a good way of doing that. Or we could look at something like the Green Ear bardic lore, and modify it, maybe giving you a wider illusion spell selection and allowing you to apply your college bonus/well-versed to saves vs. illusions.
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ORDER OF OPERATIONS FOR PRICING
In order to close a number of obvious avenues of abuse, there are “ground rules” in item pricing that must be followed. The following order of operations in terms of costing items is non-negotiable:1. For items that provide a numerical bonus of any kind, you must use the numerical bonus pricing rules below. Bonuses are priced using a multiplier x the bonus squared, as in the core rules. Numerical bonuses are always priced using this method; never as spells or feats. Therefore, a weapon with the true strike spell simply ignores miss chances due to concealment (i.e., has the seeking weapon property); pricing to gain an insight bonus to attacks is 2,500 x the bonus squared, per the “Other Numerical Bonuses” table below.
2. For items that provide a spell effect other than a numerical bonus, use the spell effect pricing rules in preference to the feat pricing rules, especially if the spell level and effects follow the rules outlined in Chapter 8.
3. Use the feat pricing rules only if the item cannot be constructed using numerical bonuses and/or spell effects, or if the spell effect is from a non-Core source and has not been checked against the standardized spells rules in Chapter 8.
For example, assume a player wants a sword that hastes0 its wielder in combat, as per the spell. The haste spell provides a +30-ft. increase to movement speed, a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves, and an additional attack during a full attack.
The speed increase counts as an enhancement bonus, per the table, for 32 x 1,000 = 9,000 numen.
A +1 dodge bonus to AC, under “other,” would cost 12 x 5,000 = 5,000 numen.
A +1 dodge bonus to Reflex saves would cost 5,000 (“other” +1) x ¼ (only 1 save category affected) = 1,250 numen.
Finally, the additional attack can be handled as a use-activated spell effect: spell level 3 (haste) x CL 5th x 500 x 4 (1 rd./level duration) = 30,000 numen. The total price is therefore 9,000 + 5,000 + 1,250 + 30,000 = 45,250 numen. A player might be tempted to say, “I would like to price it per the Permanent Spell feat, which requires 11 HD for a 3rd level spell, so the cost is 11 x 2,000 = 22,000 numen.” However, that logic results in an item priced at half its actual value, and is therefore specifically disallowed by rule.
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Jym: I also cleaned up the bard a little bit, rolling well-versed into your college bonus:
College (Ex): As you gain experience, you become more adept at inspirations (see below) and other bardic features. The use of college names, rather than simply using numerals, is included as a tribute to the 1st edition AD&D bard. Bardic colleges (by class level) are as follows:
1st (Fochlucan) +1
3rd (Mac-Fuirmidh) +2
6th (Doss) +3
9th (Canaith) +4
12th (Cli) +5
15th (Anstruth) +6
18th (Ollamh) +7
20th (Magnus Alumnus) +8Your college bonus applies to the following:
As a competence bonus to all Knowledge checks.
As a competence bonus on caster level checks and saving throws to see through disguises and protections against divination (such as magic aura, misdirection, and nondetection).
As a competence bonus to saving throws against bardic spells and inspirations; language-dependent effects; [sonic] effects; and symbols, glyphs, and magical writings of any kind.
If you are a minstrel, your college bonus applies as a competence bonus to all Perform checks. If you are a skald, instead add your college bonus as a competence bonus to your Leadership score (Chapter 5). Sonic Resistance (Ex): Starting at 4th level, you gain sonic resistance equal to 5 x your college bonus. At 20th level, you are immune to sonic attacks.
For an item that returns to your hand, we could use the instant summons spell as a base.
Coming back to this, if we had a more robust scaling for Reach Spell:
Range Category (Distance)
Touch (0 ft.)
Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./level)
Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Extreme (1,000 ft. + 100 ft./level)
Line of Sight (1/4 mile/level)
Continental (100 miles/level)
Planar (Anywhere on same plane)
Extraplanar (On another plane)
We could apply Reach Spell in reverse to instant summons to go from, say, Extraplanar to Continental (-2 levels), then the cost would be (7 - 2 =) 5th level x CL 9 x 900 = 40,500 numen. This is equivalent to the bonded item ability (which, by the way, is gained at CL 10th -- very close to CL 9th as shown), but with a slightly greater range. And as before, we could limit the uses/day to reduce the cost further (down to 8,100 numen for 1/day).
I just looked at the above and realized that, by using the feat pricing for an item bonus to Intuition saves, I'd be breaking my own rules. Bad Kirth! Bad! No cookie!
So, even at the risk of bogging down the entire thread with rules crap, I'm going to try and regurgitate my foot.
A bonus to Intuition saves can be easily handled as Jym suggested. I still feel like overlapping resistance bonuses can eventually get hard to keep track of, but if you're willing to do it, there's no reason you couldn't get a +1 resistance bonus to Intuition saves only for 1^2 * 1,000 / 4 = 250 numen. If you don't want to worry about different bonuses not stacking, use the "other" bonus pricing instead: 1^2 * 5,000 / 4 = 1,250.
I just looked at the above and realized that, by using the feat pricing for an item bonus to Intuition saves, I'd be breaking my own rules. Bad Kirth! Bad! No cookie!
So, even at the risk of bogging down the entire thread with rules crap, I'm going to try and regurgitate my foot.
A bonus to Intuition saves can be easily handled as Jym suggested. I still feel like overlapping resistance bonuses can eventually get hard to keep track of, but if you're willing to do it, there's no reason you couldn't get a +1 resistance bonus to Intuition saves only for 1^2 * 1,000 / 4 = 250 numen.
Thanks, Kirth. You should have a cookie, anyway.
And these low-level numen items can be temporary, anyway, since you've built a method into the rules to harmlessly abandon the items so that numen can be re-appropriated.
So, Jym keeps thinking about how easily he fooled the huecuva with the illusionary sound of a crying baby, and he really hopes that he never gets fooled so easily. In fact, he's thinking about that as he's out shopping for some sort of head cover for Gwl, and spies a derby hat that looks like it would fit him nicely.
Hey y'all, I'm feeling sick tonight, and I don't think I'll be able to manage a post. Hopefully I'll be better by tomorrow. Thanks for your patience.
Very sorry to hear it -- get well soon!
Feel better soon! (That's a demand, not a sympathetic pleasantry.)
Hope you feel better mechapoet!!!
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Feel better soon! (That's a demand, not a sympathetic pleasantry.)
I acquiesce to your demands. Thanks for the well wishes, friends. :)
Hope you all had a good holiday!