Happy Holidays DM ShadowBloodmoon and everyone ;)
This fat old man has 2 appointments to get caught tonight.
I hope you manage to have even more happiness and joy than the children I'll be teasing.
Happy New Year to all! Just came by to say holidays here last until the 6th (after Three Wise Men day), so my participation will still be scarce for a few more days.
Happy new year. :)
Ok, I have put together a loot list, from my joining, :
If I have set this up right, anyone with the link can read and edit.
In particular, can DM ShadowbloodMoon put values on stuff & indicate if any of the weapons are magical?
Sorry for not posting recently; for some reason, my login isn't taking on my computer. I'll login with the correct username and password, but it still shows the link to sign in instead of the link to go to my account. Anyway, I'll try to catch up soon on my phone (which still works, thankfully).
Sorry for not posting recently; for some reason, my login isn't taking on my computer. I'll login with the correct username and password, but it still shows the link to sign in instead of the link to go to my account. Anyway, I'll try to catch up soon on my phone (which still works, thankfully).
You need to kill all the cookies from Paizo.com. After that, login should work properly again...
I had the same problem, but I tried a different browser and it worked. Khamul's idea should work too.
Yep, cookies should do it ;)
You & I really do have very different ideas about what Golarion "is"...
IMO, every intelligent being knows about the possibility of the dead walking (as monstrous evil!), it's something that would be in every cultures tales/lore from childhood rhymes on up... (in game terms a DC0 or maybe DC 5 K religion, and as per previous discussions everyone will be taking 10 on the check). The undead are real (and common) in Golarion, unlike our own world, and how many people understand the concept of zombies and vampires are in our own world... (note, this is the existence of the creature Type: Undead, not the check required to point at critter X and say that's an Undead).
That the undead can reproduce themselves from corpses of those they have killed - considering it's a feature of so many creatures of the undead - would at most be a DC 10. Again, consider real world people, 99% of whom can't say they have any points in K(religion) (in game terms - most of the planet has made no serious study of the legends of the undead...), how many of them know about vampires/zombies ability to create spawn. This in a world where such things don't actually exist. In a world where that is real, the concept is at most DC10.
You & I really do have very different ideas about what Golarion "is"...
Agreed ;)
But the thing here is you are assuming your idea is the correct one (and posting IC based on that assumption), when it should be the DM to decide that, by adjudicating what is common knowledge and furthermore, what exactly your character actually knows.
Or at least that is my perspective, and the reason my post was:
"As for the rot... I don't think I have ever seen anything like this"
While adventurers may have such common knowledge, the run of the mill townsfolk can barely tell the difference between a zombie and a skeleton, other than the fact that they are the living dead and bad dinner guests. Only church folk who study anti-undead texts and other such scholars, as well as adventurers would have more knowledge. For some, it is considered blasphemy to have any knowledge of the undead because that would be akin to using necromancy. In some isolated towns, that could be considered grounds for banishment, or worse.
As for the argument that in our world, most folk in the Western world are aware of how zombies and vampires work, at least according to legend, most of it is exactly that: legend. The truth may be very different. We also have the advantage of mass media to spread such tales. While Golarion has the Pathfinder Chronicles and such, only certain folk read them and even fewer use magic to communicate and spread news, so most of it would be hearsay and gossip from the closest city.
That being said, what you have encountered is not a common thing to the common folk, so only those who have studied such things would know of it and how it passes its disease.
ShadowBloodmoon's made a call...
I think we have a quorum for proceeding with plan controlled transformation.
What I think the vote is
In Favor: Khamul, Grenz, Drek
Against: Sileven
hasn't voted : Idun
That said, I'm waiting for Milah & Zarque to chime in, because this is pretty serious business.
Consider Idun's vote an "Abstain". No strong feelings one way or the other, will happily go along with the party's decisions.
Sorry for being gone, I couldn't log in, so since it was about that time anyway, I factory reset my phone and that took awhile to get fully set up again.
As for knowing about undead, I'm in-between khamul and the gm. We would know legands, and while they are mere legends, they have a core truth to be based off of, one that is presented regularly, if only to those fighting them, so the legands are probably not too far from the reality. And while they are just legends, we very lilely know them, and rather than us not knowing anything, the most likely outcome for a knowledge check would more plausibly result in us knowing the stories but not certain about which aspects are true or not.
And now I'm off to actually read the game thread.
A quick point about negotiating strategy for this ghoul...
I see 4 possible inducement for it -
1) If it's being driven by it's immediate hunger : food (that's what the live chicken is for)
Assuming it retains some memories/personality brings us to inducements 2 and 3,
2) Vengeance on what killed him
3) Care for his loved ones and clean up of any leftover business eg. Make sure the wife and kids (wherever they are) get to Sandpoint and are cared for, or does he want to be shrived before he dies...
finally, there is
4) Treats, to which I'm not sure how susceptible the undead are...
So let's try diplomacy first folks. I am however, unsure who our best diplomat is; it is almost certainly not Khamul.
In case anyone is wondering where Idun is, she'd be using looking for tracks/preparing for that as an excuse not to be around for the undead interrogation.
Sileven you want to bring this debate into OOC, or should we hash it out in the Gameplay thread? Your character is saying some things which are not true, and others which are out of line and a bit insulting.
So I just wanted to understand if this is the character acting arrogant because that is how you see Sileven, and you want to hash it out in game, or if you as a player are unhappy with something?
Two sides to the coin.
If you think anything he has said is false from his perspective, there's a bigger problem.
Since I rejoined, he's seen the group passively accept the kobold's greed as protection. He has been told to get in line when others wanted to put the settlement at risk because they thought there could be a chance to learn something by doing so. Now he's been chewed out for saying that you don't learn by hiding information and refusing to ask others about what they know.
That ignores the impressions he got of the Kobold previously, too. Which were of an independent actor who had little use for anyone else that couldn't solve something immediately upon request.
Tell me again how any of that is wrong based on what the character has seen.
From my perspective, there has been quite some disagreement about planning, and how to do things in this group - that is granted.
But the tone of your character has constantly come across (to me) as aggressive. Keep in mind Grenz does not even know Sileven. And we started off with the wrong foot - no harm, no foul, we ran with it as agreed.
I find it ineffective to dissect all of your actions, but I will disagree with some of your statements.
Since I rejoined, he's seen the group passively accept the kobold's greed as protection. He has been told to get in line when others wanted to put the settlement at risk because they thought there could be a chance to learn something by doing so. Now he's been chewed out for saying that you don't learn by hiding information and refusing to ask others about what they know.
- If I remember correctly, no one agreed with Zarque's plan
- No one told you to get in line - we consulted Zanthus and the Sheriff, who (in my opinion hesitantly) conceded to a further investigation away from the center of town. You could have spoken against it again, if you felt strongly about it;So for me those are not correct.
- Plus now he is also being borderline insulting with irony about self-righteous prima donnas, etc.
I will say this again, I have disagreed with Khamul more than once (we had several interesting conversations in OOC), I have disagreed with Zarque also. I have shown it both in the Gameplay thread and OOC as a clarification. But for me, yours is not being an attempt at finding middle ground in a team of adventurers, or something we can work with, but is instead disruptive gaming, because it is leading us to a situation hard to comeback from.
Where do we go from here? Grenz tells Sileven he is the actual arrogant prima-donna since the first day they met? Or that we are still deciding what to do for the best of the community, while Sileven is too busy throwing insults, huffing and puffing? This is what I mean - I think it is creating a dead-end, it is not constructive, borderline aggressive, and adverse to teamplay.
I still disagree with your statements, and I am not demanding anything at all.
I do acknowledge perspectives can be different, and I have in fact commented on how mine have been different from others many times. And I have worked from there.
I maintain my opinion on the tone of your posts - I do not think it is propitious to teamplay, and I sustain that mine have been working to create cooperation and bridge opposing positions. That is correct.
I did not ignore your statement - Grenz simply did not follow Zarque into the extradimensional space because
1) What the heck is an extradimensional space for Grenz?
which leads to
2) I am not following a kobold I do not know that well into whatever that may be;
3) He did not expect decisions to be made in spite of him, as that would be obviously abusive, so he waited outside to be informed of whatever they might have been discussing. Then he would voice his opinion. Simple;
4) So 'staying outside an extradimensional space that dude over there just created' is much different than implicitly allowing anything at all. You assumed incorrectly.
Please re-read my posts, and you will see it in a different light - THIS is one of them, but there are more.
Perhaps it is simple hubris, but I did not anticipate that an investigation story would create such animosity between characters. While I expected there to be disagreements, nothing of this magnitude I am glad to see that you two are at least attempting to hash it out via discussion. To me, it seems that the characters are acting in character and it was only a matter of time before one of them decided this was too much. If one or two (or more) needs to walk away for a moment or has other agenda to deal with while waiting for the others, that’s easily handled. Sandpoint is huge and there is a lot going on. This all ties into the ongoing Runelords story, with a bit of a twist as I’ve added elements from other adventures to liven up the place. There are, at the moment I believe, seven of you. If we want to split the party to cover more ground, that’s easily done in spoilers. I do not wish to see anyone leave over this, but I understand if it gets to that point.
On that note, I enjoy that you are at least attempting to play in character as the argument ensues.
Wa-wa-wait, do you guys mean this is not part of the Superbowl half-time show?
And I just lost my response. Probably better that way.
1) Who is Sileven? He's a pure Fighter from a race where all the power and authority goes to wizards and outdoorsmen. He's a jock from a society where the nerds get all the girls. Racially, his build is normally a background character there to look heroic dying while performing a holding action to save the real heroes.
2) Since joining this group, what has Sil been told? Basically nothing. He's been expected to follow everyone else around, support their decisions (which have not been that good at face value), and be happy he's allowed to do that. I have no desire to play somebody else's henchman.
3) There's no evidence provided to Sil that this group has a meaningful purpose or goal. He knows you're familiar with who some gangs are, and have made enemies within at least one. He doesn't know anything about why, there, either, since they seemed to be enemies BEFORE you retrieved the McGuffin.
4) You can live with whatever justifications make you feel better about how you play your character. But I'm a simple guy and I like simple parallels. If a 6 year-old picks up your plate of cookies and tries to take it into another room where he can be alone with them, no reasoning adult expects those cookies to survive the trip if the child is actually allowed to make it. A character which keeps taking items and dropping them out of everyone else's sight, then tries to take this slowly growing hoard into another location where he can be alone with it. The parallel isn't even a stretch.
5) Make whatever claims you want about your motivations as a player and what you believe. What I've seen in the discussion thread is that you are telling me the character's perspective ii irrelevant, because your perspective is that a series of events went like so. This is a role-playing game. Game, so the first priority for everyone is supposed to be trying to ensure that everyone has fun. Role-playing, so the first task for me is to keep my character's perspective as the window through which I try to interact with his world. I'm not really enjoying being Sil right now, and you are trying to convince me that his perspective is irrelevant to how I should play the game.
So, Sil has seen that (the collective) you aren't concerned about the behavior of probably the least cooperative individual he's ever worked with, that you consider the chance of hearing a few words from undead as more important than the safety of the town you are in, and that you want to hide every bit of information you encounter instead of making it accessible to see what else can be learned about it.
Sil has two reasons to be here right now. Milah and Drek'Thar. That's it. And he hasn't known either of them for very long, either.
I'd like to point out that Zarque has only rarely taken anything, notably, the recent haul was due to being in a hurry and jyst trying to get the heck out. The staff is the only thing she has made any attempt to maintain control over (not including what she had prior to meeting the group), and that is because her word is at stake in regards to the staff, plus her "secret" belief that she is the best suited of the group to handle it.
All other loot gained since joining the group has been freely shared without reservation and I'm pretty sure I've even forgotten to grab her share a couple times.
===
Also, I thought my last post was mainly in support of Sil's desire to share knowledge, while acknowledging what she sees as a very legitimate reason to consider destroying the symbol.
Again, aside from the staff and her talk with the bad guy, she has not kept secrets.
Personally, I appreciate the role-playing; too often, everyone just assumes that the party is united in purpose as well as methods, is willing to play along with what the loudest/most forceful person says, etc.
Sileven's right - the characters haven't known each other long, so there is no way to know who's working for the party's/town's good, or for their own. I completely agree that it doesn't make sense for the characters to be okay with some of Zarque's behavior, for example, as a result.
For Milah's part, she wasn't there for the majority of the Red Fist thing, doesn't know what the deal is with the rod, and didn't feel like she really helped out much with that process; it wouldn't make sense for her to complain that she didn't get a full share of whatever treasure.
That said, I would likewise expect everyone that was due a full share to complain loudly if they were denied it; that that didn't happen seems to set a bad precedent, and cut down on the role-playing opportunities.
But did that really happen? I'm not aware that there was some loot - and I mean loot, as in, not the rod which is obviously the key item who every single bad guy is looking for - that hasn't been shared. If it is, please point me to it because it seems I'm losing my reading capabilities.
Also - and I'm not really siding here, I want that to be clear - I think the "risking the settlement's safety" is an out of order argument here when we've gone to the outskirts, locked ourselves in a safe room, tied up the guy and stood 6 Vs 1 in case it might have managed to set itself free. It was not a careless "let's do this right here right now" situation, in case you ask my opinion. That, of course, doesn't mean everyone has to agree; in character, there's people who doesn't want anything to do with undead and that's perfectly legit.
1) Fine
2) Who has expected Sileven to follow everyone else around, support their decisions, and be happy he's allowed to do that?
3) Well, really the group does not need to prove anything. Has Sileven proved anything to the group?
4) You can live with the same exact justifications Sileven. And you did. why are your assumptions more valid than Grenz's? Like I said, you assumed your perspective was everyone's. And it was not. Which is fine. Though no cause to pass judgement.
5) Incorrect in my opinion. I am actually going exactly by my character's perspective - Sileven has been cold, callous, arrogant, and poorly participative in trying to help the group make decisions - this is Grenz's perspective, and the reason why I eventually posted his words. My personal perspective is in agreement with yours - 'This is a role-playing game. Game, so the first priority for everyone is supposed to be trying to ensure that everyone has fun. - and that is the reason why I brought it to OOC to point out that to me, it feels the direction where you are taking your character is borderline aggressive and insulting to the other characters. I feel it is taking us to a place where it is hard to return from (fact is Grenz, as the character is thought out, a previous brawler who is trying to be better, would have punched Sileven for what he considers an insulting and out of place comment), because it forces a 'showdown' from which one character (even if against his personality) has to back down. Grenz would not, but I did, or I would not be 'ensuring everyone has fun'. Or shall we continue trading insults? Grenz has reasons to throw a few back at Sileven - should he? Is this the kind of game we want?
As for the rest, I am not going to discuss the assumptions Sileven makes regarding the others - it is your character. But I can argue that some of the things he has said are not true (and I have), and his tone was the worse possible while doing it (to which you can argue Sileven is upset, but that will roll us back to point 5 again).
That being said, I think we have nothing to gain by extending this 'debate'. So, like I did in the Gameplay thread, I am ready to stop this back and forth when you are Sileven.
Actually, I am a thassilonian scholar.I took the campaign trait for it, hence being able to read the language.
Guys, let's try not to make long roleplay sessions out of each of the separate missions, OK. It will slow the game down muchly, especially if we do all the reporting IC...
Everyone is involved in their separate scenes Khamul. So what is the rush? The game is the game.
And it's TIME TO PLAY THE GAME!!!
Would it be alright to assume Idun can buy some Alchemist's Fire at market price (20 gp each I believe?) on her way back from Quinks? Was thinking 5 for a round 100 gp made sense.
Yep, you’ll make a quick stop at the Pillbug’s Pantry for that.
Why am only on card 2? Each card is 30' and teleport with a sp is medium range or 110' right now.
Even "dense underbrush" which admittedly could be trouble landing on the target, but would not at all be trouble finding los on a branch, tree, or open space out to a few hundred feet. There should be no problem getting vaguely ahead of this guy.
I hate mechanics like these chase rules because they encourage artificial and arbirary limitations that make no sense in-character.
This is not a game of "following the mechanics," this is a game of agency. The mechanics are just support, and when they don't support the player's choice, then it's time for the gm to handle what the mechanics don't.
I am 3ish hours East of home, with my 27 year old daughter in a neurological ICU.
She is supposed to be in observation for 24~48 hours. Beennworking this issue since 0500 local this morning. I make no promises about posting on my phone through this.
I am very sorry to hear that Sileven - as a father I cannot imagine the stress of the situation.
I wish you and your daughter all the best.
Not a problem Sileven. Hope it all comes out good.
Oh wow. I’ve always said, family first. Take care of yours, we’ll be here waiting for good news.
Home for a "quick stop" tonight. Going back to get the daughter's car tomorrow, so, another 7 hours on the road for the round trip. <shrug>
Life should be almost normal for work on Monday, and after.
equipment for ?ghoul? hunting:
light:
2 Sunrods apiece (2*7*2 = 28gp)
Stink:
Antiemetic snuff (50gp per hr)
Soothe Syrup (25gp per hr) or Stillgut (50gp per hr) if he doesn't have enough Soothe Syrup
Pomander (12 gp)
Doctor's Mask (50 gp)
Paralysis:
Twitch Tonic (45gp per hr as buff, or can be used to give a 2nd save vs paralysis)
Grenz is not familiar with most of that gear, so he will accept any suggestions from others more knowledgeable than himself.
Anyone else going to chime in besides Grenz and I?
Idun is not present, unless you guys come back to the road.
Two things,
1) GM, how do you feel about hirelings? A bit old school, but might be helpful down there.
2) everyone, I've started my first stream! I sound like a complete moron still, but if anyone's interested in pointing and laughing, I could use the feedback.
I thought you’d never ask! I am old school and so hirelings can totally be a thing, as long as you can afford them...
Hirelings always made me a bit ambiguous - the actual PCs many times struggle to overcome a particular threat. Hirelings risk being completely vaporized once the first fireball hits (for example).
Now, good old henchmen are a whole different thing (was that AD&D 2ed?).
I'll also note that with 7 people at the table, hirelings make for a pretty cluttered combat map...
Given my limited experience in the combat so far, we seem extremely dominant in battle. I could see us needing hirelings in a sense of "We'd like to hire someone to carry things" or just general extra body things, but I don't think we'd need extra firepower.