You can lift twice your max load. It would not be easy. In fact, in this case it would rather funny. When lifting more than your max load, you're a bit like those world's strongest weightlifters on tv. You'd be straining and groaning.
Lifting that 200 lbs, Caprice would be like "grrrraaahhhh!" as the box slowly lifts off the ground. Not at all the sort of thing that one does going "look how easy this is." Especially as a strength 14 is something few people other than weightlifters would ever achieve. Of course, this a game for fun.
Edit: helps to read gameplay first I guess.
I remember seeing something on reading lips in 3.x material, not sure where I saw it though.
Ok got it - thanks for clarifying Zarque ;)
I'm a GM myself so I know a lot of this stuff. Though, I still tend to think in terms of pathfinder being 3.x with a couple modifications. Sometimes I miss changes that have never come up for me.
Yup, Idun would only be able to move 5 ft. a round while carrying that much, if I remember the rules.
Got new job. Having a bit of trouble adjusting to days. May be missing afew days.
Good luck with the new job Zarque!
Vacation time is upon us!
So I wanted to let you know I will be off on holidays from the 21st June until the 7th of July. I do check my games when possible, but it will obviously be hit and miss.
Feel free to bot me as needed.
Well, I honestly hope you miss when you try to hit me :p
Nothing like a good crime-solving adventure! I feel like grabbing my checkered cap and my pipe...
Now, do anyone of us offer his or herself for taking notes of the facts and our hypothesis?
Anybody know where Milah or Idun have got too? They haven't posted for a week or more?
Sorry, Milah was letting the others take the lead; not a lot for her to contribute for knowledge-y things, for the most part.
Similar to Milah, I'm looking at the mystery and going "Uhhhhhhhhh...." and scratching my head. I have nothing to add to the investigation.
Except that you, Caprice, have an invitation to meet with one of the gang later. Perhaps that is a lead as well?
Yes, but I already mentioned that, we're doing other stuff right now aren't we?
I didn't want to split the party again.
Guys, I'll go on mini holidays from Friday to Sunday. I'll have limited access and mostly through mobile phone, so I won't be able to edit aliases and my posting will probably suffer. Feel free to make me go first and eat all traps.
Okay, time to find some traps! :-)
Just checking in to show I'm still paying attention for when Idun catches up with the main crew. :)
Our time will come Idun! :D
You guys are on the first map. I thought I had put something in a earlier post about that. I'll double check.
It seems combat is drawing to a close, so it matters not too much I think.
Personally I would rather we did not do it... I know it is a resource available to you Khamul, but there is something very counter-immersive in unloading Charm Person spells on Remus... Maybe try it once, and accept our losses if it doesn't work?
As for myself, unfortunately I can't really bring much more to the table in interrogating him :P
Personally I would rather we did not do it... I know it is a resource available to you Khamul, but there is something very counter-immersive in unloading Charm Person spells on Remus... Maybe try it once, and accept our losses if it doesn't work?
As for myself, unfortunately I can't really bring much more to the table in interrogating him :P
I can certainly go with only trying once - although that makes it quite unlikely to work - my DC is pretty low. I'm not even sure that Charm person is my best interrogation spell; I can pull a 2nd level spell as well - Detect Thoughts, maybe? Or I can go cleric list...
More to the point though, we need to make a decision about what we're going to do. I see 2 courses of action
1)We can visit the Mausoleum immediately after lunch, or
2)we can spend the rest of the day in Sandpoint doing things like researching the mausoleum and selling the loot.... and tomorrow, we interrogate Remus some more (magically presumably) in the morning and then we go to the mausoleum for the afternoon...
I vote for 2, how about everyone else?
My vote is 2) also.
Had already posted in Gameplay accordingly ;)
Two is good with me. We've got a random longboat to sell.
Ok we have agreed the plan is to use magic to interrogate Remus tomorrow.
I propose that we put the visit to the mausoleum off until the day after that, because if I pull the magister spirit with my seance, I'm going to be basically useless in a fight until the next day ( where I will seance champion spirit again).
Khamul, I do not think there really is a valid reason (apart from meta + OOC) to put off the investigation to the mausoleum - it is something of a certain importance... Perhaps find some sort of intermediate spirit, or use other powers if we encounter a combat situation?
Khamul, I do not think there really is a valid reason (apart from meta + OOC) to put off the investigation to the mausoleum - it is something of a certain importance... Perhaps find some sort of intermediate spirit, or use other powers if we encounter a combat situation?
I'm not sure I'd describe that as Meta or OOC - in world, Khamul knows that a) he's significantly less capable in a fight without seance contact with a champion spirit, and b) he can only do 1 seance a day...
In terms of intermediate options, there just aren't any - if he wants to add a spell, he has to pick either the archmage (wizards spells) or hierophant (cleric spells), and he can add all of 2 spells to his list: 1 first and 1 second. Assuming Charm Person is the interrogation magic we want, that means picking Archmage and adding Charm person (rather unlikely to be of use in a mausoleum) & X (second level spell - of which he gets 1 per day)...
I understand, but for me it feels odd to pause for a full day while you change your 'payload' - not sure if I am explaining myself correctly, but it is a matter of immersion.
Also it kinda makes sense that if you use part of your power for a less combative option, then your combat related options should be diminished for the day.
Our group is very large, so I do think we can balance things out - we do not know if there are others working with Remus, or if our actions may precipitate further actions we are not immediately predicting, so there is some sense of urgency to not delaying the exploration of the mausoleum.
In game terms, for me it is all in the choices (and they are part of the game, it is not me wanting to burst your bubble Khamul, please understand) - if you want to boost your interrogation capabilities for the day, then you diminish your fighting capabilities for that same day. If we compress time or bend the history to allow the seance change to occur 'as needed', it starts feeling cheesy, do you not agree?
In any case, these are just my two cents - we have a large group, so others should weigh in on this.
We really don't have any particular reason to expect the mausoleum to be heavily guarded, seeing, from what we know, the bad guys haven't gotten into it. But they know where it is and are trying, so we are in a rush to get there.
Grenz: there's definitely a day to day capability trade-off. I'm curious, do prepared (non-spontaneous) casters bug you a lot too? Do characters in your games not normally try to make plans to use their strengths and avoid their weaknesses? Would you expect characters (PC or NPC) not to try and do that?
Caprice: I do not know what to expect from the mausoleum - it is well sealed enough that the red fists couldn't get in so far, which suggests but does not prove, that it might be well guarded. What I don't see is the rush you are suggesting; we just cut the bad guys local organization to pieces, so we can take our time getting to the mausoleum - they don't have any more local agents.
On the other hand, if we can talk to Remus with the staff already in our possession, he might be easier to be tricked, if that is still our plan by then.
Of course, if the staff is an intelligent artifact "with the staff in our possession" could have a slightly different meaning xD
@Khamul: I guess you are probably right - they might bug me a bit yes, but it all depends on how you go about it. But for me it is more a case of thinking about whether it 'makes sense' to pause for a day or half a day to re-stock on different spells, etc.
I guess I am kinda old school and grumpy, and not used to stopping at noon because the wizard has ran out of spells - he just has to roll with it, and the whole group also. Please understand I know it may be the most (meta) optimal thing to do in the vast majority of cases, but if it does not 'match' the immersive side of things, it kinda makes me cringe.
I also think there is a lot to be said about classes that allow you to change your loadouts in such a radical way, that one day you are fighting as hard as a decent fighter, the next you are casting close to a wizard, and on the third scouting like a rogue.
Versatility for me is one of the most relevant things in a character - I flinch when making a cleric or Paladin because of the 2+Int skill ranks per level - but it can go overboard, and make overlapping a thing when it is taken too far.
Mechanically what you suggest is what makes sense - casting 4x times Charm Person until it works, then waiting a day to load on champion spirit powers to go into the mausoleum. But looking at it from the game perspective, it feels... Awkward.
Again, this is a personal perspective. And believe me I do understand this is how your class works ;)
EDIT: Just to say we can game on anyway - it is what matters in the end :D
I would say that 15 minute adventuring days are usually regarded as a bad thing to be avoided. You can take advantage of class flexibility without relying on them.
Example: The adventurers are traveling and come to the gorge. The party tries to come up with ways to cross, with no luck.
Wizard: Ok, we can rest, and I'll prepare fly in all my high level spellslots and get us across.
Party: Sure, that's reasonable seeing we can't figure a way across and we travelled to reach the gorge.
Tadah, you have used the class' flexibility to your advantage!
Wizard: Ok, now that we've crossed the gorge, let's immediately camp and rest another eight hours so that I can get my spellslots back.
Party: We've been awake for 15 minutes?
--
In other words, using your flexibility to break open a situation, great, go right ahead. Immediately calling a halt to progress because you don't want to pay the built in cost for that... less so.
Personally, I feel like the bad guys have been informed that their local group has been defeated, and may intend to send someone else to finish the job. I do not believe this single defeat has completely unmanned them and they're going to quietly pack up and move out of town, giving up on the staff. I think there is a time crunch.
Now, if a majority of the party members believe there isn't any reason to hurry, because say, the bad guys won't mobilize fast enough, then resting another day to change your spirit back makes complete sense, and I won't raise another word about it.
Khamul,
1) I think you overestimate the power of Charm Person. Zarque essentially got the charm person result without actually casting the spell. The spell is not an automatic "get desired outcome" spell, rather it just lets you cheat a little and make your words sound sweeter even without being a silver tongue yourself. It does nothing a good diplomacy result can't achieve.
2) I think you are looking at this too much like a game. You don't have to spend a day twiddling thumbs, so it is perhaps easy to ignore the existence of a whole day doing nothing. But your character must face the rest of the day, and even if they decide to wait till next day to do task A, are they really going to sit around for a whole day, or would they instead spend the day doing something productive towards their ultimate goal? Your character doesn't get to skip the rest of the day, and I don't think your proposed action takes that into account.
Now I'm off to actually read the gameplay thread.
Zarque,
1) I think we have hit significant levels of table variation here. RAW, we can assume that Remus starts at a hostile attitude - we have attacked him, beaten him up and imprisoned him. A diplomacy check, no matter how good (in theory to get indifferent, you need a 30+ ), can get him to at most Indifferent...
Thus he is not telling us much that is helpful. A Charm Person spell, makes him Friendly, with the associated benefits and DC changes.
2) I think you're thoroughly mischaracterizing things. No, I do not propose to spend the day "twiddling thumbs" rather after the magic aided interrogation, I propose to spend the day on downtime activities, including preparing to visit the mausoleum...
All that said, I am getting the impression that the other players would rather jump into the mausoleum, rather than trying to extract more juice from Remus. I'm OK with that if you guys are, I will just seance Champion tomorrow and we can go...
Also, a question for Shadow Bloodmoon. Normal rules, Hermean Potential, doesn't affect hostile saving throws. Given we are using players roll all the dice, does Hermean Potential allow you to re-roll a magic check to see if a spell affects an opponent? Obviously, this makes the effect much more potent in some situations (effectively it's Ill Omen or Persistent Spell Metamagic) - so I think I'll ask beforehand.
All that said, I am getting the impression that the other players would rather jump into the mausoleum, rather than trying to extract more juice from Remus. I'm OK with that if you guys are, I will just seance Champion tomorrow and we can go...
From my part, I am up for trying to extract more info from Remus in the morning, and heading to the mausoleum once we are done with that - why does it have to be black or white? ;)
I honestly think if we want to bluff him, having the staff would make him softer, but I'm okay with trying the talky tech first.
I could play the bad cop and cast bad mojo on him, them you use your charms as the good cop.
Re: Hermean Potential
I look at this from a standpoint of DnD 5e's Advantage/Disadvantage system. With Hermean Potential, you get an advantage on your next roll, Facing campaign, would include how well you do against a static save. Ill Omen would of course be the opposite. The target gets disadvantage on its next roll.
That said, Casting Hermean Potential on yourself essentially feels like casting Ill Omen on the target. They have almost precisely the same effect since you are the one rolling the dice. The only real difference being range and duration.
In short, yes, I would allow it to work when rolling the magic check of casters.
Second:
I appreciate you guys having a decent debate on the next steps. Investigation Adventures are tough and you guys are handling it pretty well.
Zarque,
1) I think we have hit significant levels of table variation here. RAW, we can assume that Remus starts at a hostile attitude - we have attacked him, beaten him up and imprisoned him. A diplomacy check, no matter how good (in theory to get indifferent, you need a 30+ ), can get him to at most Indifferent...
Thus he is not telling us much that is helpful. A Charm Person spell, makes him Friendly, with the associated benefits and DC changes.
I wasn't referencing mechanical diplomacy. I was meaning real world salesman type of diplomacy, or a ladies man who is very good at getting some from women who normally don't give it. Such real world people through purely non-magical means can make people feel like they are talking to friend rather than a stranger. Charm Person is basically that but without all the work and skill required. It doesn't make people suddenly do whatever you want. Them keeping their mouth shut isn't always from a successful save, but rather sometimes because they wouldn't speak it even to a friend.
Further, them knowing what you are doing rather breaks it. They might not hate you for it while the spell lasts, but they'll still understand what you're doing and why and act accordingly, and feel a sense of betrayal, which means you can't just waltz in and cast the spell till it takes then expect all the rewards. The spell is very much like an illusion. Knowing something is an illusion doesn't change what you see, but it does change how you treat the illusion.
Hey, does any know what's up with Milah? Her last post was like 2 weeks ago...
Ok, here's a plan for tomorrow. Get up really early, Khamul will seance - Archmage, adding 3 spells to his list - Disrupt Undead (0th), Charm Person (1st), and Aggressive Thundercloud (2nd). Then go to the jail while Remus is still asleep. Cast Hermean potential, and then Charm him while he's still asleep. Go have breakfast. Come back and interrogate him while he's our friend... Wander off to the mausoleum post-interrogation...
I'll need to make arrangements for an appropriate location to seance " Arcane redoubts, areas of unusual magic, libraries, schools."
Nice plan Khamul ;)
Sounds good.
What do you mean homeless Zarque? Is everything ok?
Ok is a relative term, but for the moment things seem to be ok.
I live in my car. Rent just got too expensive to keep up with. I was working 70-90 hours a week and the margins just kept shrinking. Then when renewing time came they wanted to raise the rent another $50 after the rent had gone up $200 over the last 4 years. My pay rate did not go up at all during that time. So we left. It is said that one should live within one's means, but there are minimums that just can't be shrunk. That apartment was a bottom-of-the-barrel apartment that had the ceiling collapse in our building twice, invested with mice, ants, and roaches. The only cheaper places are the ones where there is literally a police curfew always in place and run by racist gangs who don't like us white folk. So there wasn't exactly a lot of options. I must say though, I suspect a lot of our issues come from us just simply not going into debt, aside from the cars. No credit cards, no payday loans, etc. From they way people speak, I highly suspect that everyone I work with at my level either has 1) external support such as working spouse, extended family, roommates, etc, 2) has lots of debt, or 3) has some other income making their current bottom wage job redundant or supplemental to some other main income. One lady I worked with actually owned a few dozen acres of land and was basically rich, and worked for a "bit of extra spending money." I lack all of those things.
In the car though, we have finally got into a somewhat better financial position, though things keep breaking to eat into our cash reserves before we build them. Still, I get to eat more now than I had been able to afford in nearly a decade. Still struggling to get back up into healthy 120+ range.
Still, this is why I spend so much time on my system, cause I want to publish it and have it be good enough that it might actually sell. I'm hoping to at least give Savage Worlds or Gurps a run for their money. Of course, I have a few business ideas I'm working on, but getting any of them started would be a miracle since they all require a high initial startup cost. One of them though should be suitable for crowdfunding, except I need the funding first so I can buy the tools and hire the people I need and crowdfunding usually needs something to show first.
A question: are we going to the Mausoleum if Milah isn't posting? Is Shadow Bloodmoon going to bot her?
Wow, Zarque, those are some really powerful circumstances you are living under, but I am happy to see that you are staying strong and making the best of it.
As for Milah, she hasn't responded to my PM and that is unfortunate, as she was the last of the original Heroes of Sandpoint. I haven't seen much of her player around the boards after a quick alias search either. For the time being, I will bot Milah until you leave town to go to the Mausoleum, as something will come up that will require her attention...
Wow Zarque - you definitely have a LOT on your plate... I hope you and your family manage to re-center yourselves, and flipt the table on all that has been going on. Best of luck!
Detect magic won't let me identify specific spells nor such specific details as asked, unless the GM decides otherwise.
That said, @GM, does there seem to be any place one might put a key, perhaps even like the one I have hidden away?
Once I get the answer here, I'll post IC.
No, the only place for a key was the locks on the chains. The doors have no such thing.