Caprice is a lot closer to my normal way of thinking, but in this case, we are going into a labyrinth of tunnels most likely, at the very least there will be lots of ways into and out various areas.
We are like the tanks of ww2, the enemy will want to face us only when they can win, but if we go down alone, they can just evade us and seal things up behind us and lock us down, forcing us to where they have the advantage.
Thus, we want to stop that, and thus we need to be in lots of places at once, though not necessarily our fighting skill. Hirelings and guardsmen can lockdown key points to prevent the enemy from escaping or outmaneuvering us. Give them barricades and plenty of alchemist's fire and holy water and even hirelings can turn tunnels into killzones.
This way, we can face the enemy largely on our terms.
Hirelings can also manage larger tasks, such as large pots of burning oil to flush down various tunnels, carrying away the bodies and handling them before they become undead again, bringing supplies from rear so we don't need to be overloaded while fighting, and so on.
I refuse to think in game logic, such as "all fights will be roughly our level and well balanced." It's a pet peeve of mine. (interestingly, 3.x was never intended to be that way, but for some reason, the early modules were criticized for not being consistent enough in the difficulty of encounters, so wotc decided "to hell with the rules we designed.")
I refuse to think in game logic, such as "all fights will be roughly our level and well balanced." It's a pet peeve of mine. (interestingly, 3.x was never intended to be that way, but for some reason, the early modules were criticized for not being consistent enough in the difficulty of encounters, so wotc decided "to hell with the rules we designed.")
Completely agree - I do not think all fights should be roughly our level and well balanced.
And that is why I said 'the actual PCs many times struggle to overcome a particular threat'. If by chance the hirelings are on the wrong end of that encounter/tunnel/barricade/etc, you risk them to be completely wiped out.
In any case, as a player I have nothing against the inclusion of hirelings. I was just sharing my thoughts regarding the risks of putting them too close, and in harms way.
Grenz's opinion will be forthcoming if the point ever comes up.
I agree with Zarque and Grenz and you have probably already noted that some of the fights are not that balanced and they are given more worldly reasons for how many or what you come up against. Just be aware that if you go with hirelings, what happens to them can affect your reception and reputation in Sandpoint.
Yep, I was also thinking about that :/
Ok, I can't recall any of us "snooping around" the pillbug after the murder (Only Idun has visited, buying alchemists fire). I have searched the thread for "pillbug" and "pantry", and only find references to before the party went out to Thistletop. Can anyone else recall any investigation of Pillbug?
The shopkeeper is assuming it was us, but it wasn't. It's a clue, and a trail to follow at some point.
I'm dotting my i's and crossing my t's here Zarque... What I'm really suspicious of, is who's the back room right now. I'm not too sure that this is something to follow up later...
That's a different question, and up to you. Though it might not be a person. It could as easily be a thing.
A question for everyone. How much money does the group want to spend on Alchemical kit? In terms of immediate cash available from loot, we have 28 gp from assorted thug coin pouches (the Mausoleum), another 400 gp in gold bars (also the Mausoleum), and Remus coin pouch (which was "full", but we never got a GP number for).
We really should take a more careful look at our loot - the handwraps from the Red fist might be something Grenz would be interested in :D
Plus we have some scrolls, and some stuff we can sell also it seems.
I am thinking Drek'That and Zarque can assist with identifying?
I missed the handwraps, as a multiclass monk, Zarque might challenge you Grenz to a friendly match to see who gets the handwraps. :) Could be fun.
GM: Are the coin values still the same as 3.x, such that commoners make about a silver a week on average, and craftsmen make about a couple gold per week?
If you plan to be in the front throwing punches, you can just take the handwraps Zarque - Grenz will not get into a match about it (even a friendly one), he is trying to move away from his street brawling days ;)
As a sidenote, there are two sets, though they are probably different.
That is about correct Zarque. It various of course on circumstances, but that is the baseline.
So 10 gold sails as a fee is him inflating the fee?
No one has answered my question about spending amount... I'm giving 8 hrs or so and then spending money as I see fit (I'll keep it under 400)...
Gear
7 Sunrods (14 gp)
3 merchant's Pomanders(36 gp)
4 Twitch Tonic (180 gp)
2 Stillgut (100 gp)
total + 10% markup = 363 gp
Sorry Khamul, I will just leave the logistics in your capable hands. Grenz has a few hundred gold pieces if necessary.
If that's what you think we should buy, Idun will just eat the cost. This here is my confirmation.
7 Sunrods (14 gp)
3 merchant's Pomanders(36 gp)
4 Twitch Tonic (180 gp)
2 Stillgut (100 gp)
total + 10% markup = 363 gp
Alright, we should be clear to proceed.
I’ve added those expenditures to the party loot page. We can balance those later on so we can get to the delve. Remus’s pouch had 250 gold sails in it. (250gp). The mook’s hand wraps were just basic hand wraps, giving no bonus, but Red Fist’s are magical and give the Magic Fang power at +1. (+1 to hit and damage with all natural weapons. )
Ok, Grenz is interested in those handwraps :D
Will wait on Zarque to pipe in though.
The tunnels are essentially going to be site based encounters as they pretty much look the same. In essence, you will progress down a tunnel, if you encounter something, the map will go up and then combat occurs, then you explore more tunnels until the next encounter. You are basically in a maze. The first tunnel heads straight a ways and then makes a sharp left, as you will see when you start exploring it.
@DM Shadowbloodmoon - so we can assume that we have a "map" don't have to worry about solving the maze? Or do you want us to keep a actual map (presumably a google doc)?
Also, let's talk marching order here. I assuming a 5' tunnel...
(Front to back)
Sileven (melee specialist, ghoul paralysis immune)
Khamul + Zarque (The only 2 small characters. Also assuming we don't start beating on each other for being in close proximity)
Grenz or Milah
???
???
???
???
Grenz or Milah (tail end charlie who is a capable melee combatant)
The middle slots I'd appreciate some input on - who needs to be where to influence a fight in front of Sileven? Out pool of ???'s is : Idun, Drek, Acolyte (Mirah), Acolyte (Gurin)
Why Khamul is in the 2nd rank : Reach weapon - longspear, missile capable (slingstaff), and can cast longarm
Assuming a 10' tunnel
Sileven + Milah/Grenz
Khamul + Zarque + Milah/Grenz
???, ???
???, ???
I am good with the marching order suggestions Khamul.
If one of you wants to map as we go along, that might work better for finding your way around. As a meta hint, there are a couple for things to find in the maze. Most of the places you have been were fairly straight forward, but this place is a lot less so. We can put up a new page for whomever wants to do an actual map that everyone can reference.
Player map added as slide 16
...The first tunnel heads straight a ways and then makes a sharp left, as you will see when you start exploring it.
I have assumed straight a ways means 30', please correct if appropriate
I doubt distances are going to matter much for the exploration. A line drawing with intersection nodes is probably all we need.
Most, if not all, of Drek's magic works at 30 feet, so I guess somewhere in the middle would do him well if you guys want him to cure you quickly.
Who's going to carry light sources? Sil's got a blade in each hand . . ..
Drek has no problem carrying a torch... if you provide him with one.
I am getting the feeling we should have bought an everburning torch :D
Can someone cast Light?
Ioun torches are superior. 75 gp for a no hands required, permanent torch effect.
Agreed - had completely forgotten about that one. I wonder why it is cheaper than the torch.
I'm pretty sure that Zarque has an Everburning Torch, and doesn't have hands full of steel... In the alternative, I've got some string and can tie a sunrod to your helmet.
In the alternative, I've got some string and can tie a sunrod to your helmet.
What a beautiful image Khamul :D
I also think Grenz can carry it? Since he should be able to fight with knees, feet, elbows, etc? He is not up front though. In the back, he might be better served by darkness.
Ok folks, tactical decision - bust into the room to get all of us involved, or retreat into the narrow tunnel as a chokepoint to control their numbers?
So Drek'Thar, mechanically, would you be delaying until after the bad guy's turn, or readying to heal?
@Drek'Thar - I would have thought your Life talents do positive energy and thus would damage undead?
I think readying is more what he is doing as it is more beneficial to be ready to heal than simply delaying. As far as the Life sphere goes, it specifically states that you can harm undead with it, in case you want to change your mind..
Ok, it's been 4 days and no one has spoken to the tactical question... Letting the other side make all the decisions for you is not a good plan.
Sorry Khamul, I think there is a limit for OOC discussions in tactical situations - place your questions in Gameplay, and Grenz will answer as best as he can ;)
@Drek'Thar - I would have thought your Life talents do positive energy and thus would damage undead?
Mmmh... let me reread it... maybe you're right.
Edit: You're actually right xD
I'm getting old!
@Shadowbloodmoon, will pink draw a AoO from Khamul if/when he gets out of the pit? He won't from Sileven as he is out of reach, but Khamul is using a longspear (which he will have to drop to deal with dashed red...)
Yes, both Pink and Yellow are in range of your spear if they move.
Yes, both Pink and Yellow are in range of your spear if they move.
I don't see how yellow would - 5' steps don't normally draw AoO's. Pink might because getting out of the pit (5' deep) might not be doable with an 5' step; it might require a move actin.
Difficult terrain?
Precisely. Remember, the whole area is mud, so no 5 ft steps. Difficult terrain prevents those.
Still don't want to shoot anyone in the back, I'll continue alchemical readiness until I see an opening.
Just wanted to say I'm going under a formation for lip-synching, dubbing and off-voice narrative. It's going to take away some time from me, specially at the beginning, so I'll be slower than usual.
Oh hey, Sileven, didn't realize you had detect magic! Don't forget to check the ghouls for any loot. We really seem short (or at least don't use them a lot) on the basic cantrips; normally that gets used on just about everything...