Leinathan/mdt's Kingmaker (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

Actually Lanya and Draekh could bite some of the men, dying from snake poison also seems like a natural way which wouldn't draw too much attention.

If we really need to get rid of Drelev...

Yep, Sanita hasn't done it, but she could brew up all manner of evil poisons and poison them to, same effect. :) It's too bad she has all those morals and sense of decency... oh wait... :)

As far as potions, you should remember that Sanita can brew potions as well, and she can do it while travelling (you can only make one potion a day, and most potions are less than 4 hours work, which she can do while adventuring), so there should never be any time required to make it, just be done in the evenings while other stuff is done. Most she might require is someone casting a spell.

As long as the body is non-existent, such as destroyed by lye and/or acid, who cares how they died?

Well we should, or at least Wilhelm should, have plausible deniability. A snake killing them would look natural and wouldn't give him much/any cause to go righteous justice on us.

Okay, I'm trying to wrap my head around the kingdom spreadsheet. I was looking at the spots open, and the spots where I could be best, and I'm not sure if I got this right.

So, the skill listed beside the title is what skill is used when in that position? Right away, Warden jumped out at me, but I remember I think Bej and Wilhelm were talking about it, and it sounds like a constable type role. So then I'm confused about the engineering connection.

Also, how do the skills affect it? Is it ranks, total score, a roll made monthly (less/more)?

For the empty spots, (disregarding Consort or Heir, don't think that's where Holbrecht belongs)
Councilor (K/Local) +4 (+2 Int, +2 Feat)
Viceroy (K/Geography) +8 (1 rank, trained, +2 Int, +2 Feat)

But I'm not sure how those positions are affected by the skills. I kind of get Councilor (knowing what's going on with the people/city), but regardless of his skill that wouldn't be good for Holbrecht, given how he sees people.

As for the rival noble topic, I would hazard to say at the very least whatever happens should happen as far from Oleg's or Wilhelm as possible. Given his alignment and role, I would imagine anything happening to them that even sparks of sounding like his allies would/could/should be cause for concern to him. Even more so if something happens to someone he treated as a guest. As a guest he is accepting responsibilty for them, and it would reflect very poorly on him for them to come any harm under his own roof.

I believe that it's an additional +1 to the bonus you provide for every 5 ranks you have in the relevant skill.

For a better idea of what the rules are like, check This out.

Oleg's is a public place, with lots of witnesses around. So it matters a great deal how they die. If they were to die, that is.

Even if I were playing an evil character, I would shy away from public murder. It's just not prudent.

I could just get fake offended and challenge them to a duel... assuming I could defeat them.

Sanita, at the least, had no intention of doing anything at Oleg's.

She much more likely to follow them while blurr'd into non-existence, and hit them at night a week away, or sneak into their supplies and poison their food.

Dareon is right, you gain a +1 per 5 full ranks in the relevant skill. While spending the week doing your job you are also considered to be using the skill for purposes of gaining money and/or Influence.

Speaking of influence and backers, did Sanita's numbers go up or down after the trip up north?

It seems option A is the way to go then (and selling the expensive potions).

-----Loot Distribution!-----

Dareon: 47gp & Talking Staff
Bej: 1939.76gp & 10 Animal Bane Arrows +1 & Masterwork Greataxe
Will: 1270gp & Horseshoes of Speed & Masterwork Lance
Dante: 2150gp & Masterwork Greatsword
Lanya: 2325gp
Fhârn: 2768.5gp & Masterwork Bardiche
Everyone else: 2925gp

Consumables (ie stuff to share):
Wand of Burning Hands (CL5) - held by Dareon
Potion of Cure Light Wounds - Unknown bearer
Potion of Sanctuary - Unknown bearer
Scroll of Awakening - held by Fhârn (currently)
Healer's Kit - Unknown bearer
Vial of Holy Water - Unknown bearer

--------End of loot--------

@Awaken - Using the spell from the scroll and then letting Rowan handle the rest of the castings is a lot cheaper then scribing the scroll anywhere (scrolls sells for/is 'worth' ~1600gp. Material cost of spell is 2000gp). I know where I'd like to put it to use, but I'd live without. Besides, a fair number of others have pets/animals too that could use it : )

@Our guests - I'm not sure murdering everyone that annoys us/is uncouth/is mildly evil is the right path to go down, as I'm sure Bejs meeting with the soldiers daughters is meant to show (innocent blood and all that crap :P). I'm all for trying to find an alternative approach - or, should the worst come - try to coexist and absorb them later into our kingdom : )

@Our banner - I've been thinking. In my opinion, we should simply pick 2-3 colours and a general shape and make a simple flag first. Then we can add some symbols to it and make emblems and banners and ect. That way we have an easily made & recognizable base flag to work with - and then add many versions of it, like one for the army & personal banners and so : )

Suggestion/example:
____________________________
| \ \ |
| \ \ |
| \ \ |
| \ \ |
| \ \ |
| \ \ |
|__________\___________\____|

(My thoughts - Repeating patterns is nice, so I would like only two colours, with a darker one in field 1 & 3 sandwiching a lighter tone in the middle)

Once we have the basic design down, we can upgrade it with symbols and such. But since we have a basic version, we have an easier way picking livery - and even people without great tailors can fly our flag :D

Example - three emoticons have been added as sigils/symbols for a more advanced version of the flag :)
____________________________
| \ \ |
| \ \ ^^ |
| \ \ |
| \ :) \ |
| \ \ |
| <.< \ \ |
|__________\___________\____|

Thoughts ?

edit - sigh. I hate the paizo boards "formatting", if they deserve the word. Oh, all those spaces you put in your post? I'm sure you didn't actually want them! Lemme delete those for you! -.-

I'll put up my suggestions in a doc like Bej

edit2 - @Flags - I put a few basic shapes in a new sheet in the Kingdom Spreadsheet, just so you can see what I meant. And a coloured one too : )

Yeah, I was not really onboard with the idea of killing everyone. I mean, "accidentally" killing Drelev might be fine if we do it very far from Oleg's, but I'm still not sure it's the smartest move, let alone the moral issues.

What I think we need to do is make him look bad. Perhaps shaming him a bit - the upcoming quest against the boggards might be a good place for that.

If get extremely lucky, his shame turns to anger, he demands satisfaction from Wilhelm in single combat and our good lord can call down the wrath of Iomedae on the evil bastard.

Let him hang from his own rope - we just build the gallows all around.

Honestly I wasn't reading everyone else's stuff, so I don't even know who Drelev is, I don't think. Sanita's just the type to trust that if Lanya, Rowan, and Dante think someone needs to be disappeared, that's good enough for her. She respects their opinions enough that she'd just quietly do away with said person. :)

"I am your death, for you have been judged and found wanting." :)

I do like Fharn's suggestion of having a theme for the flag, and then variations. If I might suggest, I like the idea of a 3 bar'd flag? But diagonally barred, not horizontal or vertical.

Example Note, I picked the 3 colors for contrast, not because I liked them for flag colors. :) I think White Yellow/Gold and Blue would work well for colors. [EDIT : Added an example of how I think the flag should be colored to the examples, in the upper right of the link, blue white and gold (yellow).]

In the examples above, the upper left flag would be the kingdom flag. The middle flag would be, say, the Army flag, while the third one would be, say, First Regiment's Flag. That is, the central icon always represents country. The bottom left represents a division of the country (Army, Province, Guildhouses, Clan, etc). The upper right represents a specific entity in that division (Regiment, City, Guild, Family).

So, Kerfuffle, I'd like to retrain my arcane bond class feature into the bonded item class feature. I think that once I receive it, the talking staff will end up being my bonded item.

This costs my level x 10 x 5, which is the number of days it takes to complete the task. Total cost is 300gp, which I'll gladly bear.

Is that alright? I think I'm going to end up taking Leadership instead of Improved Familiar - I'm not very good at roleplaying for familiars, but having an extra character seems like a good idea. I'd be okay with them not even going adventuring with me very often. Half of the reason I want Leadership is for the followers anyway.

I'd also like to sell my darkwood quarterstaff, which will gain me 150gp, leaving total costs at 150gp.

I am OK with everything above except that you need a wizard of at least 7th level with the bonded item class feature to teach you. I'm afraid Bej doesn't qualify, so you'll need to travel to Restov. Is this alright with you?

Well, technically I'd need a wizard of at least 6th level, as I'm only a wizard 5, but I'm fine with that (as Bej still doesn't qualify). I'll take the time to do all of that during the downtime, after I've had my items crafted for me and I've finished scribing all of my spells and crafting wands on request.

There'll be more than enough downtime for that, right?

So Sanita/Fhârn don't know about Felix and Masamura, right? That raises an interesting point, what happened with Masamura IC? Presumably he returned with Dante/Dareon and has been hanging around Oleg's since. What is the long term plan for him as an NPC?

The last post from him said something about having him recalled by his lord as a good reason for his leaving.

Feeling very sick. I don't think I will be able to post until later this weekend. Sorry.

Sorry to hear it Kertuffle. Hope you get well soon.

Likewise Kertuffle, take care of yourself and get better.

Get well soon!

I'll be away from home for the next two weeks for a training exercise. I'll post from my phone when I can but feel free to bot me whenever you want to move things along. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Get well Kertuffle!

And have fun Rowan :)

Okay, now I'm really curious and I can't find it anywhere. Sanita, can you link me somewhere that explains the difference between Ser and Sir as you stated it? I couldn't find it, and have only ever seen it/read it as a variant spelling/pronunciation of Sir.

I get this way about words (English Major), like when I realized I had been mispronouncing Eidolon all along after I heard someone say it the right way.

Honestly, if I remember correclty, it was in a David Eddings book, but I don't remember which one.

How is is supposed to sound?

I thought EYE-DUH-LAWN or perhaps EYE-DOE-LAWN

I always said it Eye-Duh-Lon, but I've been told it's Eye-Doe-Lon.

It's eye-DOE-luhn, though I've always read it as EYE-duh-lon.

Well, that is all greek to me (hue ...)

Also, on the topic of words. I found this on Wiktionary:

Noun

ser (plural sers)

(used in some fantasy novels) An address or courtesy title to any person, especially if their gender and/or form of address are unknown.

Would ser care to dine this evening?

So Sanita was probably on the ball with her usage of the word = )

Sanita is always right. :)

So, since lead by the caveat of '(used in some fantasy novels)' it really only exists as some fantasy writers' personal preference, but there's no official use? Okay, now I don't feel as bad for having not heard the distinction before.

LOL, we are playing a fantasy novel though. :)

Ah... but whose fantasy novel? Not all fantasy writers use it. Like I've said, I 've seen it before, here or there, but there was never a distinction made about it having a different meaning.

As a product of fantasy literature, just like some monster's names (aboleth just at a first glance at the bestiary), it has no official use in the English language. Which is more the clarification I was looking for.

All the same, Aboleth even nets SO many more results in a quick search than the word Ser.

Side note: Bestiary was another word I had been saying wrong for a long time. I always thought it was Beast-ee-ary, but it's Bes-chee-ary.

That's a pretty common one, and it's often misspelled as Beastiary rather than Bestiary. I've even had someone comment to me that 'Hey, Paizo misspelled beastiary! hahaha' in a game store.

Sadly, it was an employee.

Sorry for the hiatus. Was sick pretty much the entire weekend and have spent the last two days scrambling to catch up.

Wonderful dialogue!
I'm going to make the following assumptions.
You take the entire month of Gozran off for downtime and crafting and establishing the kingdom.
You take use the first week of Desnus for kingdom stuff.
This leaves Desnus 8 as the date from which to reestablish exploration and missions.

Regards Roan's Sin Sense. Since it takes an action to use, it does require a little bit of concentration. On the other hand, Roan is very adept at concealing his expressions (Bluff +10). If you can make a Sense Motive of DC 10 + 10 (Bluff) +5 (Circumstance) = 25 then you can tell that his attention seems riveted on you while he is talking to you.

Is this the link you're looking for?

For everyone's benefit (mostly mine), I've got a bunch of links in my profile to useful/interesting posts. If we start up kingdom building tomorrow, here's a list of rolls we need and who should roll them. We need to fill our empty seats as a first step. I propose we keep the same seats for now, but Sanita will take over as spymaster and Roan can take over as Councilor. We'll have a week or so for Wilhelm to get somewhat comfortable with Roan before we start kingdom building. The alternative, if it makes more sense from an RP perspective (I'm not convinced it does), is to have Jhod take the role of councilor (temporarily).

I've got an outline of how I think it should go according to the post I linked. Kertuffle can correct me if I'm wrong.

Month 1 turn:
Upkeep phase

• Step 1) Determine stability. Stability check by Bej (Warden).
  
• Step 2) Pay consumption of 0 (no hexes or anything).
  
• Step 3) Fill vacant magic item slots (none).
  
• Step 4) Modify unrest. (If there is unrest, Vors can attempt to reduce it now.)

Edict Phase

• Step 1) Assign leadership (already done).
  
• Step 2) Claim and Abandon Hexes (We automatically claim B6 - Oleg's for free.)
  
• Step 3) Build terrain improvements (I think we want a road and a farm in our first hex in addition to our capital. Agree? That takes us to 53 bp)
  
• Step 4) Create and Improve Settlements (Found our first city for free, then build a house (2 BP) and tavern (free). Turn Oleg's into a free stable? Down to 51 BP.)
  
• Step 5) Create army units. (Nothing here.)
  
• Step 6)Issue Edicts (I'd vote for 1 Holiday per Year, No Taxation and Token Promotion)

Income Phase

• Step 1) Make Withdrawals. (N/a)
  
• Step 2) Make Deposits. (N/A)
  
• Step 3) Sell expensive items for BP. (N/A)
  
• Step 4) Collect Taxes. (Roll by Fhârn as treasurer)

...

Step -2 : Acquire Funds (56BP)

So the rolls that are needed are
Bej adding 15 to roll (DC 21)
Fharn adding 24 to roll (DC 22)

So by the end of the month of Gozren, Oleg's has increased to a population of 1000 with about 250 people in the surrounding area. It has a Stable, Tavern and House. About a dozen farms are planting crops in the surrounding area and a there is a network of trails leading to them so that they will be able to bring their goods into town.
Stability is +17, Loyalty +16, Economy +25, Consumption is 2.

Some may want to tailor the downtime their character uses as they wish but to speed things up I am including the following as a default to bring your characters up to Desnus 8
Bej
Obviously embracing the downtime rules. 2 Cost of Living expenditure of 10 gp each. Two weeks of Warden buisness (K/Engineering +12) (gain 22 gp). Net GP gain of 2 gp. You have 3 more 5 day weeks to continue building your farm and/or crafting items.
Dante
With all his combat feats, martial training vastly outdoes his skill use (+23) (Level-5+Str bonus +3x6combat feats). 2 Cost of Living expenses of 10 gp each. Two weeks of General buisness (P/Soldier+9) for 19 gp. 4 weeks of training people to fight (+23) for 66gp. Net gain 65 gp.
Vors
Vors also is better at martial training (+16). 2 Cost of living expenses of 10 gp each. Two weeks of Royal Enforcer buisness (Intimidate 0) for 10gp. 4 weeks of training people to fight (+16) for 52gp. Net gain 42gp.
Rowan
2 Cost of Living Expenses of 10gp each. Two weeks of Marshall buisness and 4 weeks of using survival to make money (+13), total 69gp. Net gain of 49gp.
Roan
2 cost of living expenses of 10gp each. Two weeks of councilor buisness (unskilled) for 10gp. 4weeks of using Sense Motive (private eye?)(+15) for 50gp. Net gain 40gp.
Dareon
2 cost of living expenses of 10gp each. Two weeks of Magistar buisness and 4 weeks of using K/Arcane (+17) for 81gp. Net gain 61gp.
Fharn
Martial or Spellcasting, Fharn uses the same number +13. I think he is spending his time crafting items however. 2 Cost of Living (20gp), 2 weeks of Treasurer work (+2) for 12 gp for a net loss of 8 gp.
Sanita
2 Cost of Living (20gp) (The second month she could increase her standard of living and spend 90 exta gold and gain 4 Influence). Again I think she is prefering to craft her own stuff during downtime. Two weeks of spymaster (+4 Sense Motive) for a total of 14gp. Net loss of 6gp (or loss of 96gp and gain of 4 Influence)
Wilhelm
His cost of living is 110 gp and he gains 6 Influence. Two weeks of Ruling buisness (K/Nobility +4) for 14 gp. 4 weeks of Diplomacy (+12) for 44gp. Total loss of 52gp and gain of 6 Influence.
Lanya
2 Cost of Living (20gp?, Could spend 110gp and gain 4 Influence). 2 weeks of Diplomatic Work and then 4 weeks of using Diplomacy for herself. (+18) for 84gp. Net gain of 64 gp (or loss of 26 gp and gain 4 Influence)
Holbrecht
2 cost of living (20gp). No official buisness of state so he can spend 6 weeks engineering (+13) for 69gp. Net gain 49gp.
Anastacia
2 cost of living (20gp). Two weeks of religious buisness (+6 K/Religion) for 16gp. 4 weeks of Sense Motive (another detective?) (+14) for 48gp. Net gain of 44gp.

I guess it pays to be a fighter..? highest net gain!?

I'm fine with this being my default. At the moment though I have a few commissions for magic items I'd like to work on for this month's downtime. I'm not that familiar with the downtime rules just yet but an overview of what I would like to do is build a garrison/barracks and start hiring teams for the town guard. Any suggestions on the best way to start this?

Actually, I believe her Sense Motive should be +9. We were talking about her headband of vast intellect, and Fharn crafting it when we got back. So she'd have had it by the time she needed to make her checks. The skill was either going to be Diplomacy or Sense Motive (based on whether Sanita ended up in Diplomat or Spy job). Since she's going spymaster, that would be 6 ranks + 3 trained = 9 ranks. So +9. She'll drop the 91 GP (+5 from headband having sense motive go up) and gain the better living quarters (since she needs a place to craft anyway). She is going to craft as well, doing the 4 hours while doing kingdom stuff, and the 8 hours when not doing kingdom stuff. I'll figure out how much she does over the month and what it goes to in a bit.

Also, Sanita is going to start 'making friends and influencing people' so that she can justify buying BP at the reduced cost over the next few months. She's not wanting to pay someone rent, she wants her own house/lab.

Crafting!

Sanita will take 10 whenever crafting. She will also use a DC of 25 (increasing the DC of things that are easier than 25 to make them faster!). Taking 10, her checks are 27 vs DC 25 (she has a 17 Craft Alchemy currently).

1 Week of Crafting : 27 * 25 = 675 sp, or 67.5 GP. However, she crafts twice as fast due to her class ability, so therefore she crafts 67.5 on the weeks she's working on kingdom stuff, and 135 GP worth of crafting on the weeks she's doing crafting.

She pays 1/3rd in raw materials. So, 22.5 GP per week of kingdom/crafting and 45 gp per week of pure crafting.

After the next seven days on the road, she's created 161.2 gp worth of alchemy products. 11.2 gp toward another alchemist's fire. It's cost her 57.73 gp worth of material.

5 Alchemist's Fires (100gp)
5 Acid (50gp)

So, for the month we're talking about, that's 2 weeks of kingdom crafting, and 2 weeks of crafting crafting. That's 11.2 + 135 + 135 + 135 = 416.2 GP of crafting, costing 45 + 45 + 45 = 135 GP.

She had 500 GP of alchemy material to start with. She's spent 57.73 + 135 = 192.73 GP, so 500 - 192.73 = 307.27 GP.

She currently has, after all the crafting...

10 Alchemist's Fires (100 gp + 100 GP from river crafting)
10 Acid (50 gp + 50 GP from river crafting)
10 Alchemical Greases (50 GP)
15 Alchemist's Kindness (0 GP (previously owned))
10 Sunrods (2 GP (previously owned 9))
30 Tindertwigs (30 GP)
15 Vermin Repellant (50 GP (previously owned 5))
05 Holy Water (125 GP)

She has 9 GP toward more crafting for next month.

She will approach Oleg about a deal to sell things out of his store. She'll split the profit with him 50/50, so basically, Oleg sells it for full price, converts 1/3rd of it back into crafting materials, then they split the other 2/3rds of the price. So, for the tindertwigs for example, if Oleg sold 30 of them for 30 GP, he'd hand Sanita 10GP of alchemy crafting materials and 10 GP and keep 10 GP for himself. Then she'd take the 10 GP of materials, craft more alchemy products, and repeat the cycle.

If Oleg accepts this deal, she'll leave with him the following :

4 Alchemist's Fires
4 Acid
4 Alchemical Greases
10 Alchemist's Kindness
5 Sunrods
20 Tindertwigs
10 Vermin Repellant

So after the loot up til Stag Lord's fort, I have 277.1 gp after Sanita/Fharn make all the purchases for me. I could save myself some cash by making magic, but I'll skip that for now. After downtime, I will have:

• Cloak of Resistance + 1
  
• Masterwork Full Plate
  
• Headband of Alluring Charisma +2
  
• Sleeves of Many Garments

I'm selling my banded mail. After I get my share of the cash, I have 1542.1 gp. After living expenses, I have 1446.1.

For my downtime, I'll be converting my gold into magic instead of doing diplomacy for gold. This conversion will finance the following items (to be made whenever there's spare time):

• +1 enchantment for my full plate (4 magic needed after converting 5 influence into 1 magic. 200 gp spent on this)
  
• Belt of Giant's Strength +2 (20 magic costing 1000 gp)
  
• Cracked magenta prism ioun stone (4 magic costing 200 gp)

So all told I spend 1400 on creating a total of 28 magic. I can make 11 per week by taking 10 on Diplomacy. That means it only takes me 3 weeks to make my magic. I can earn 11 gp my last week of downtime. That leaves me at a final total of 57.1 gp. Alternatively, if someone needs help making magic outta gold, I can do that.

Any objects to this accounting? The new items will probably have to wait until our next downtime session, sadly. :)

I'm fine with that being my default for now, yeah. I receive my items during this period as well, so that's cool.

I'll take a look at rooms and teams that I want to start hiring/building, though I might want to take my trip to Restov during everyone else's exploration time to get that class feature retrained...

Anastacia had hired a labor team on Pharast 29 and her bathhouse was finished on the 31st, I think.
I'll compute the gold earned for that tomorrow. I don't feel up to it tonight. It will just be gold piece earnings, I don't have enough gold to spend back into capital just yet.

Fhârn will indeed spend his time finishing the commissions. Every item he was set to produce is ready by Desnus 8 - and the Mage Guild have been updated to reflect that.

I have also created 8 Magic so that Dareon can make my wands for cheap : )

Economy roll: 1d20 + 24 ⇒ (17) + 24 = 41

BP added to treasury: 13 [floor (41/3) = 13.66 -> 1]