Leinathan/mdt's Kingmaker (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

Hey y'all, just in case you're selling off everything that doesn't get claimed and I'm allowed to have it, I'm mighty interested in that talking stick.

Also, welcome to the new members.

Thirdly, I have no problems with the first month of kingdom development. Just remember that Dareon adds a +5 to his kingdom stat (5 ranks of Know (arcana) and a +4 Int mod, once the headband gets crafted, which I believe is before the kingdom stuff. Otherwise, he adds a +4.)

When should we perform our functions in the kingdom to preserve the bonuses?

Roan of Irori wrote:

Sounds good, thanks Fharn! Though for some reason I seem incapable of interacting with the only thing I see in there, the picture. Do I just add my spells into the columns?

The first page is just a pretty picture to set the mood :P The crunchy stuff is sorted under the other tabs.

I'm afraid it is mostly geared towards Prepared Arcane Casters, the tabs called 'First/Second/ect Circle' contains all the (arcane) spells we know (that is in books!) in our party, to facilitate easy exchange between our spellbooks.

What might be interesting for you (as a divine caster without a spellbook!) is the Crafter's Corner should you want to commission an item.

There is also a Research tab, currently not in use, but the plan was to save information on any spells we research there. Should the urge get to you :)

Ah, gotcha, now I see all those little tabs, cool. For now I'll probably not do much with it having spent most of my character gen money, but I'll certainly stick my head in for an order every now and again.

And with my +12 in Calligraphy (he needed some kind of hobby...) I'll probably be picking up Inscribe Magical Tattoo later for those interested. Probably will hold off on getting it until we're less strapped for cash and more strapped for equipment slots, but I'll be contributing to the creation page quite a bit at that point! :)

Ok, so, formulas Sanita wants from the guild.

1st
Adjuring Step*
Anticipate Peril*
Bomber's Eye*
Detect Undead*
Jump*
Negate Aroma*
Polypurpose Panacea*
Shock Shield*
Stone Fist*
Touch of the Sea*
Youthful Appearance*
11 * 10 = 110gp

2nd
Barkskin
Blur*
False Life*
Invisibility
Protection from Arrows*
Lesser Restoration
See Invisibility
7*40 = 280gp

Now, I can only get Barkskin and Lesser Restoration if they have Formula books, if it's spells only, those are a no go. :( I'll need a scroll of Barkskin and Lesser Restoration. So I need Kertuffle to respond as to whether they have alchemist formulae, or only spells. Everything marked with an * is already on the list below for the spellcasters, and Sanita can copy them to formulae on the trip back.

We can pay for the following 1st and 2nd level spells to be scribed for us :

1st
Accursed Glare
Adjuring Step
Anticipate Peril
Bomber's Eye
Detect Undead
Jump
Negate Aroma
Polypurpose Panacea
Shock Shield
Stone Fist
Touch of the Sea
Vocal Alteration
12 * 10 = 120 gp

2nd
Blur
False Life
Protection from Arrows
Summon Monster (2)
4 * 40 = 160 gp

Fharn will have to scribe these spells, that's 16 hours of scribing, or 2 days, and 70 gp.

3rd
Harrowing
Resinous Skin
Summon Monster (3)
Water Breathing
4 * 90 = 360 gp.

4th
Telekinetic Charge
1 * 160 = 160 gp.

OK! So, I think I've got enough energy to handle all this now.

My Coin : 3904
Purchases out of My Coin
1875gp -> 2500gp worth of Enchanting Materials
375 gp -> 500gp worth of Alchemical Materials (Makes 1500gp of material)
1000GP -> Donated toward Spell Purchases
Remaining : 654 (63 Platinum, 24 gold)

Spell Coin : 4600 gp
1255 gp : Buy books 1, 2, 4, and 6 (Resell 1 & 2 at next stop for 50%)
Remaining : 3345

Ok, so this is what we had left, last time I did math.

That means, we are coming in WAY under budget for the spells, being able to get them as used spells or transcribed rather than as scrolls. If we total up the cost of inks for scribing, and get the acolytes to do us up copies of the spells, then that is :

240gp (1st levels) + 320gp (2nd levels) + 70 gp (2 days of access for Fharn) + 520gp (3rd and 4th levels Fharn has to scribe).

That's 1150 gp.

3345 - 1150 = 2195 gp

Sanita will need additional inks worth 310 gp to turn those spells into Forumulae. If they have alchemists formulae in the library, she'll need an additional 20gp + 80gp = 110gp to get the non-wizard spells on her list. So, that's 310 or 420.

So, we'd have 1885 or 1775 gp remaining in our spell coffers for spells. I suggest that we either invest in some more spells, or, we use it to buy more materials for recording spells and some blank spell books for later.

Also, nobody said they wanted Invisibility or See Invisibility, so Sanita was going to just pay to scribe them herself (she's looking at 8 hours of scribing, or one day). If we want those as spells, that's fine, but we'll need to pay the scribes as well, which adds another 80gp to get them scribed for us, and Sanita will scribe them from the spells into formulae later.

We have Invisibility & See Invisibility already : )

Telekinetic charge is a long time off, so I suggest we come back for it during our long downtime.

Bej ordered 400gp of scribing materials, so I suggest we buy those :P

Personally, I feel that we should buy a bit more scribing materials so everyone can fetch the spells they want.

Also, did you include the 540gp spent today?

On:

Fhârn: Haste, Clairaudiance/Clairvoyance & Mirror Image

Scribe: Create Treasure Map, Web, Fog Cloud & Make Whole

So two days more - letting me Scribe the four level three spells and two level two spells, then buy the rest? Or wait until we have plenty of time ?

No, I wasn't sure if your 540gp was from the dedicated moneys, or out of your pocket. If we take it out, then we'll have 1,345 or 1,235, depending on the whole formulae thing.

I think we already got Bej his 400 gp worth of scribing material, back when (if I remember correctly, he ended up with 533gp worth of scribing materials, because of our discounts back home. I didn't include his 400 in the spell funds if I remember, since he wanted inks.

I think we should go ahead and get the rest of the spell funds in inks and spellbooks, say, 2 spellbooks and the rest in inks?

As to time, thanks to all the adventures along the way, Sanita and Fharn are running about a week late, so I think spend the money and get going.

Mkay - you've kept better track of the gold then I!

The spells was those that Bej ordered and some of Dareons, so it was from the main fund. I was thinking two days more for the third level spells (which we can't pay for!) and then pay for the first and second level spells.

We have plenty of paper I think (the books we bought were quite empty) but another book or two might not hurt. And then inks, yeah. Those will always come in handy!

Also

@Holbrecht & Sanita

I was thinking liberal application of Share Memory combined with a dose of Zone of Truth when we get to Oleg's should be enough to ensure he is not a mole or spy or something!

I've got Detect Thoughts too. And Detect Magic, Poison, Evil, Good, Lawful, Chaotic... Discern Lies... +15 Sense Motive... Yeah, not that Fharn and Sanita would know all that yet, but with this added to the group, and the previously mentioned Zone of Truth and Share Memory there ain't going to be no moles in this court!

Kingdom Spreadsheet is now editable.
The school is not geared towards alchemists but they do have several of the more popular formula available and Barkskin and any curative magic (including Lesser Restoration) are present.

Membership consists of paying yearly dues equal to your Casting Level times 100gp. You can decrease this by doing scribe and scroll work for the Halls but you only gain 2gp times Caster Level per day credit. Most just pay the fee.

For now then, it's cheaper to just pay the daily fee, although it's a close thing. So, we have the lower number left from my post above. A couple of blank spell books and some inks then and we're good to go back to the green belt. Sanita can transfer all the spells on the road in about a week of travel (4 hours a day). So by the time we get back, she'll be done and ready to craft for a week after doing kingdom upkeep (once she finds out she needs to). Going forward, it might be good to pay for an NPC follower/cohort to have full access to the guild and send them up as needed.

@Time spent in New Stetven:

We will have to spend a total of three days there, since Fhârn spend the first day scribing Bej's & Dareons orders before he could get to work on the ones Sanita listed :)

Also, Accursed Glare is third level - but I can live without it!

I would also like to add the following (that the scribe fixed for us!):

Snowball 1-75: 1d100 ⇒ 68

Arcane Lock

Acid Arrow

Track Ship 1-75: 1d100 ⇒ 73

Greensight 1-75: 1d100 ⇒ 55

Then we pick up two spellbooks

For a total sum of gold remaining 885 gp

Which we turn into scribing supplies. I'll update the Mage Guild to reflect this!

Update: I fixed the Circles, but not the wishlist. Also, Bomber's Eye is not a wizard spell - so we save 20gp for a total of 905 gp left!

I've added Sanita to the crafting page (SOMEONE left her off!), and also added her requested craftings. I added 4 items to the craft list, and altered who's doing the crafting of items so that Fharn and Rowan are more evenly splitting the crafting. Fharn was down for 2 weeks of crafting with Rowan down for one week, got them both to 9.25 days.

I wonder whom that scatterbrained fool was *whistles*. To be fair, I did remember you when I listed the prices for spell levels ^^

Also note, Fhârn benefits from Cooperative Crafting which lets him craft 2000gp/day. I will add the speeds in the tab (since most of them are currently off!) and get back to posting as soon as I finished my Create Food spell and updated my other pbps : )

edit: It is also nice that Rowan makes the stat-boost items, since he can easily access the prerequisite spells!

I updated the wishlist again (with some new wishes!).

I also added Ant Haul & Youthful Appearance to the wizard list, costing 40gp. The Ledger tab now contains up to date info on the Guild's supply of materials!

I had already charged for Youthful Appearance twice. Once as a spell we paid the scribes to scribe, and once for Sanita to convert.

Ah - didn't see it on your second list. I'll put 20 gp back then ^^

That's ok, I did leave it off by accident on the second one, but I also counted Accursed Glare, which was actually a third, so the gold was still correct after taking Accursed Glare out. I just didn't go back and edit the lists because an hour had already passed.

I noticed the Accursed Glare error and replaced it with Snowball earlier, should perhaps have been more clear :P Anyway, the gold count should be correct now!

Edit:

^- Note, just random thoughts. One shouldn't do this unless one really really needs to end someone ...

Also, note that we have an extra set of +1 Studded Leather after we get back. Sanita is enchanting her Lamellar (she prefers it, and it'll be better than the studded leather when it's enchanted). Is anyone interested in that, or do we end up selling it?

I'll be updating the Kingdom Spreadhseet to make it AWESOME in the next hour or so.

I'll be putting Sanita as Spymaster, and leave (for now) Councilor vacant.

=*=*=*=EDIT=*=*=*=

Ok, I didn't want to touch Kertuffle's sheet, so I made a second tab. I may have missed something since I never played Kingdom Building rules. Once we start going I plan on adding settlement tabs and terrain improvement tabs to keep track of which HEX has what.

Also, Wilhelm, guys, we NEED to come up with our own banner. I know it will be hard, since we probably all like different colors, different animals, different heradly symbols... but it would be so cool to have one...

Nice work Bej!

As for a banner - We could just start by listing whatever colours and motifs we like:

I like dark purple, red & blue. Not so much for the lighter hues, except silver (contrasts nice with dark purple & blue) and red bronze.

Griffins and thorny vines are motifs I think look cool. Filigree too!

Edit:

Also, we should probably split the loot now. My suggestion is that we spit all the loot acquired before our new friends joined between the ten old chars (since the new guys already have some nice stuff :P). Then, after the downtime period (downtime is going to change the wealth, especially for those whom can craft [especially those whom have time for mundane crafting!]), we should take stock of our Wealth by Level and assign further loot with that in mind (I think some of us will end up with a bit more, some less [The new guys will probably end up here ish]. I don't know how big the difference is yet!).

Thoughts ?

Edit2:

I'm currently thinking if I should count consumables or not. They aren't really supposed to be part of Wealth by Level, so I don't know ... On the other hand, some of them are worth a kings ransom. For now however, I'll discount them.

Edit3:

Currently the shares are almost 3500gp per head, excluding the consumables. It will be easier to divide this time, since there are only one item that is worth a ton! Which brings me to the next point:

The magic stick - it is almost third of the hoard by itself! The moment speed is surely nice, and all - but .. yeah :P Did you want this Dareon? Our other shares would be smaller this time, but we should survive. But you will probably get the short end of the stick if we go trough a WBL check ^^

I mean, I'd much like the stick over pretty much anything else - I basically spent all of my gold on scrolls and scribing costs for the mage's guild, after all, adding all of my own spells to the communal spellbooks. Also, it's just a thing that he'd like. I'd gladly take a lesser share of loot in the future. Of course, if that's impossible, I'd gladly just straight-up take gold.

Just a quick question, in case I shouldn't, but is it okay if I dot the threads for the other groups just so they appear in my campaigns and I can follow along? I keep playing catch-up on them when I think about checking them.

@Sanita: Not interested in the +1 studded leather. I'll stick to heavy armor.

@Bej: Thanks for updating the Kingdom sheet. It looks good and your idea for tabs for hex improvements/buildings makes sense. In my group, we just marked some of that stuff on the map itself, and I've got the mean's to do that for our map as well. I'd show you my group's (I run Kingmaker IRL) map, but it would have major spoilers. That would be bad. :)

Also, I like the idea of a banner. I had thought Wilhelm might adopt a personal banner that riffs off the Orlovsky banner. Right now I'm thinking: a gold eagle with wings spread on a field of white with a sunburst sword (Iomedae's symbol) clutched in it's talons. That would be Wilhelm's personal standard, but I haven't given much thought to the kingdom's banner.

I think we should probably avoid any symbols specific to a deity, to avoid appearing to favor any god. Other than that, I'll have to give it some thought. I'm not sold on the idea of dark purple, personally, but maybe I'm thinking of a different color then you, Fhârn.

@Fhârn: I think dividing our loot now makes sense. I'm also unsure about consumables. They're pretty pricy and with so many divines, I'm not sure it's worth keeping them unless nobody can cast those spells. With a few wizards with Scribe Scroll and cleric with the spells, we can just scribe scrolls of those spells for cheaper.

The staff seems pretty expensive for what it can do. Feather step slippers seem to handle difficult terrain better than the staff. It's your call though, Dareon.

That raises a question though: How do we want to handle this sort of case (where the value of a single item blows past the 'average share' that each person should receive? Ignore it, not give the person gold that loot division and assume it sort of balances out over time? Apply some sort of 'negative credit' to the next few loot divisions?

@Holbrecht: Go nuts with the dotting. I have them all dotted and follow them all. :)

So, now that I dotted all the threads, I have 17 'active' campaigns in my campaigns tab (that's of course counting the four for this game).

@Wil, Dareon

It it possible to make it work. There was some items worth more then their 'share' last time we divided too.

I was thinking perhaps giving those whom got more a slightly smaller share this time - any major shifts have to wait until we calculate the WBL and see whom truly has more stuff :P

That's a fair point, I'd forgotten about the whole crafting making up for expensive gear part. For what it's worth, once Wilhelm gets all his currently requested gear, my WBL will be around 9500 according to Herolab. If we just do an even divide (as close as we can) this time, and then try to even WBL out a bit more next time, I think we'll be ok.

The thing is, I prefer to take found loot over selling it and buying other loot, because every time you do so, you decrease the overall amount of loot that you have.

Lol, Dareon, sounds like a recent conversation we had in another game. :)

Wait, really? No way!

Sorry I haven't been posting much recently. Spent most of yesterday flying and catching up on work today. Phone is almost dead so I'll catch up and post more in a few hours.

Any ideas on the councilor spot. Once thats filled we're good to go.

The prodigal group returns on Gozren 15 and to get caught up on kingdom stuff Sanita and Fharn will be busy until Gozren 22. So continue to deal with the Lord Drelev encounter in the gameplay section of this thread and plan downtime until Gozren 22. After Gozren 22 go to the Kertuffle game thread to plan exploring and we'll start from there.

Jhod or Roan seem like decent fits overall. Wilhelm probably isn't sure he'd trust Holbrecht IC so that's a no (also not really his forte). Between the two, I've outlined my thoughts before. I have no preference so I'll bow to the groups preference.

Long term, we're going to have to do some thinking. Roan or Holbrecht should probably move into the position after trust is established IC. That said, I'm not sure either fits that well from an RP perspective. :) My current thought is that Sanita can get pretty comfortably shifted into the Diplomat's role if Lanya because a Co-Ruler (looking more and more likely...). Then Roan takes over Spymaster and Holbrecht can be Councilor. If we assume the Grand Diplomat's war is also about cutthroat politics as well as playing nice and making treaties, then Sanita makes more sense in that role. Wilhelm and Lanya can still play diplomat as rulers as needed, of course.

Note, Fhârn would like ~1 week to catch up and actually turn all that gold into stuff for people. I'm not sure how that fits into the schedule =)?

Sanita would be a practitioner of what is called 'gunboat diplomacy'. :) I'm fine with her moving over, although personality wise she fits best in spymaster. :) I'm not sure Roan or Holbrecht fit for spymaster personality wise (Roan might, Holbrecht won't ever, lol). They really need a 'Royal Technician' spot, Holbrecht would fit well with that.

Honestly, I'd just make Holbrecht eventually the Royal Architect. It may not be something in the rules, but it'd work, and he could use his 'kingdom management' week to hustle on getting buildings done (making down time checks to speed up building buildings, etc).

On the subject of the studded leather armor, if nobody in the group wants it (and no trusted NPCs in kingdom slots wants it, and no cohorts want it), then we can sell it through Oleg and just add it's value to the loot.

We would need a fleet first, for gunboat diplomacy to work. Or atleast something vaguely threatening ... : P

Roan would be fine with taking either the Councilor or Spy Master positions. He's got the paranoia for Spy Master (and by his reckoning, it's one of the most prestigious jobs just from the amount of trust it takes to be the Lord's official skull-dugger).

But while it still bears bringing up IC, Roan would also recommend himself for simply becoming a mercenary army leader with loyalty to the state, but no official affiliation. This serving as a means for Wilhelm to project influence internationally, without officially declaring war or marching armies across anyone's borders. That's obviously a far off goal if it happens though, and at least in the mean time, he'd be happy to serve as a mercenary who just so happens to be hired to help fill a court position. ;)

EDIT: Also, I had the same conversation myself a month earlier Dareon, and I'm a staunch supporter of your line of thought. The total GP value of your goods goes down the more you buy and sell, so if you can put it to use, put it straight to use and avoid the middle-man! Everyone will benefit more in the long run that way.

On that note, I'm generally for an uneven distribution of wealth when it comes to the party. So long as the party benefits, I'm okay with whatever is suggested. So long as the understanding is that such discrepancies are best avoided, and if one occurs that the rest of the party is favored in coming loot divvies, I see no problem in it.

Took a visit to the Mage Guild today and I had a question about the headband of vast intelligence. Do I need to know Craft: Clockwork and Abyssal in order to enchant the headband to have it?

No, I don't think so. If so, though, Perception, Knowledge (geography) or Profession (cartographer) would be great skills to add to that. As for a language, idk, you don't have any that you can teach me.

Each thing you don't know increases the DC by +5 to add it. If the GM feels lenient, having someone with the requisite knowledge skill and language aid other would remove the DC penalty.

On that note, I'm generally for an uneven distribution of wealth when it comes to the party. So long as the party benefits, I'm okay with whatever is suggested. So long as the understanding is that such discrepancies are best avoided, and if one occurs that the rest of the party is favored in coming loot divvies, I see no problem in it.

This! While I personally feel no loyalty to dropped loot over crafted (except when one manages to find something really cool or unique!), I realize some prefer to reap the bounties of their adventures in stuff.

I'll make a draft of the loot division after I get back home.

Sanita was rather low below WBL until this trip home. Here's her breakdown as of now, and includes the 3460 GP that's her share of the pirate loot (she's going to buy 3500 gp worth of enchanting materials in before leaving the capital so she can get a headband enchanted).

+1 Rapier (2320)
MW Composite Shortbow (375)
Alchemy Crafting Kit (25)
Alchemist's Kit (40)
6x Potion of Cure Light (300)
5 Acid Flasks (100)
5 Alchemist's Fire (125)
9 Sunrods (18)
Heavy Horse (Combat Trained) (300)
Military Saddle (60)
Bit & Bridle (2)
3 Silver Weapon Blanches (15)
15 ALchemist Kindness (15)
5 Vermin Repellant (25)
Spellbook (490)
+1 Leather Lammelar (1210)
+1 Buckler (1155)
+2 Int Headband (4000)
614 GP
1500 in enchanting materials

Unless I missed something, she's at 11229 instead of 16K for level 6 (Actually, 16,900 with rich parents). Granted she has another 150-200 gp worth of crafting materials to craft alchemical items. The 1500 in enchanting materials is for magic items she'll get Rharn/Rowan to craft later. So, that would put her at 13229 out of 16900 WBL. It's not completely out of whack, but it's only close due to having others who can craft.

Updated crafting page on guild spreadsheet to reflect getting Fharn to do a +2 headband. I'm considering saving the 1500 towards a Circlet of Persuasion...

I'll have to take a look when I get home, but Rowan might be forced to deal with the headbands - especially the int ones - since they have three requirements Fhârn is unlikely to meet. Rowan can atleast cast Eagles Splendor :-)

You need Fox's Cunning, not Eagle's Splendor. If it's an issue, we can spend 40GP for Sanita to copy that into her formulae book, it's on her spell list. She can pour an elixir over the headband every day while you craft. :)

Requirements for headband of Vast Intellect is : Wondrous Item, Fox's Cunning. That's it. For diplomacy skill, you need ranks in Diplomacy. And for the language, you need to speak it. So any language you speak that Sanita don't is good.

Yeah, sorry! I was on my phone and I blew the 50/50 shot !

The CL of a headband is 8, so the base DC is 13.

Fhârn rolls 11+2 on these checks without much effort, for a take 10 of 23.

Each missing component is an additional +5, so I can wing two.

I don't have any Diplomacy ranks, and I don't really have more skill points to spare on that one :P

Our languages are almost identical, with Fhârn speaking Skald instead of Goblin - so that is an option I guess.

Otherwise I guess you will have to settle for casting of Fox's Cunning. Alchemists don't really cast spells, I know there has been some discussion on the topic somewhere but I can't find it atm, but as long as Kertuffle don't object I' all for it : )

LOL

How do you not have at least a rank in Diplomacy? :)

Hmm, per the FAQ, Alchemist's can't take crafting feats. However, in the same post, it says that is problematic and it is intended to be addressed at a future date (LOL!) because alchemists canonically in Golarion make golems (which requires magic item crafting feats). :)

So it's really up to Kertuffle. If not, we can always ask one of the divine casters to step over once a day for 2 days to cast it for us.

One single rank wont help with much, since it is not a class skill for wizards nor fighters or eldritch knights.

I put my 'this is not a class skill nor a stat I use, but I can dump points into it and pray' points in Perception instead, since it looked like we had plenty of diplomats : )