Leinathan/mdt's Kingmaker (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

Absolutely no issues with Sanita's house - I made myself a house, too. Look it over and see that there's no glaring issues?

I messed up a bit on the intermediate cost amounts - the number spent on items should be 2,050 less, and thus the remaining gold for downtime 2,050 more. The total expenditure should still be 20,000gp.

I'm adding a description of what my employees are for and what my home looks like to my profile.

House looks good to me.

I'll get Sanita fixed up shortly. I'm going to assume Brew Potion doesn't really count for 'crafting feat' to add to WBL, since it only makes potions (about like scribe scroll).

Sanita's equipment Reset. Remaining gold is saved up for other things. Anyone see anything wrong?

So, for my new bard, what is the equipment cost? 12,000 gp? Can she have a house too?

Your bard should be at 16,000gp (Standard level 6 WBL). As long as her house comes out of her starting gold, yes, she can have a house. If your bard has crafting feats (other than scribe scroll & brew potion) she get's a 25% bonus on WBL (20,000 gp).

Yeah, your character can have a house, using the rooms downtime rules.

Leinathan? Sanita's character sheet is updated (see link in this posting). Modified the formulae list a tiny bit, as there's 1 first level formulae she won't bother getting (bomb admixture), and 5 second level's she doesn't have (1 bomb spell, and 4 low use formulae she'll get at the next two levels).

We officially have all the alchemist's formulae in the mage guild, and Sanita made personal copies for herself. Note all the formulae in the guild are written in her hand, so she could use those directly without needing to translate them in an emergency (basically the guild acts as a backup for her notes).

Her library is for Kn(Nature), so if anyone needs to make such a check, and has time, they could ask to use it. Her infirmary gives a +2 to heal checks. Her alchemy lab gives a +2 to alchemy checks (up to 3 can use it simultaneously).

I'll have her future cohort wrapped up shortly, and get an alias made and 'intro' her on the gameplay thread. I'm also planning on hiring Munin as a manager in the spy groups when Fharn releases him at level 7.

About the craft feats, are you missing any?

Wilhelm? Sanita's going to need an ok to hire spies with kingdom funds. That shouldn't come out of her WBL, it should come out of the kingdom treasury. I posted the list awhile back, but since Lienathan and you are taking over the kingdom stuff from Kertuffle, I'll post it again below.

Other than that, I think we're good. Sanita agrees that we should make the move to the fort ASAP after getting Olegstead stabilized and growing. She's going to need resources to start recruiting agents. From the downtime, she's going to need (I think) : 2 Bureaucrats (10 people, 400gp), 2 cutpurses (10 people, 220 gp), 1 Elite Guard (5 people, 170gp), 2 Lackeys (10 people, 120 gp), 2 Scofflaws (10 people, 130gp). Bureaucrats are basically management, scattered around our kingdom, Brevoy, and the surrounding areas (our two 'frenemy' competitors). The cutpurses, lackeys, and scofflaws are various agents (1 each reporting to a bureaucrat). The elite guards are for the HQ at Olegstead.

Also, Lienathan, Sanita is going to begin creating her own language (kind of like Esperanto was a constructed language), and begin keeping all her notes in it. That way if anyone does manage to steal her notes, they'll have to decipher them, which should be fairly painful with a made up language. I'll put another point or two in Linguistics at the next level for it. Assuming you're ok with that.

I don't think so, not that can be currently had. Except perhaps Craft Magical Tattoo. That would be nice to have around. :)

Yeah, we're missing things like Craft Staff and Craft Rod, and we're also missing Craft Construct.

I'm fine with the fake language in exchange for two ranks in linguistics for you and anyone else that wants to learn it. I checked Sanita's character sheet, it looks good.

Given the wealth by level boost, I had already taken Craft: Calligraphy in preparation of getting Craft Magical Tattoo. Any objections to me tweaking my feats and getting that early. Decided against it early since people were in general strapped for funds, but now that it's a bit more freed up, and I can get an extra boost of income... any objections?

Well, I did say 'that we could get' Dareon. Those are higher level than we are at the moment (I think construct is 7th isn't it?).

I don't object if Lienathan doesn't

Evelynn Kalnath reporting for duty as a future Cohort, and for approval from Lienathan.

Equipment is broken down (cost wise) in the same spreadsheet as Sanita's (See above). Character sheet is in link on this alias post.

I would like to clarify. Are we setting the clock forward 1 year?

Also I discussed retraining my ability increase from charisma, to wisdom, with Kertuffle. Before he left. Is that still OK?

It would cost me 300 gp.

We will be, very soon, setting the clock forward a year. I believe Wilhelm mentioned doing a bit more exploring first, though, so it's possible we'll be doing that beforehand.

It's fine with me that you switch your ability score increase.

Sanita, just a few things about your cohort. Unlike PCs, cohorts do not automatically recieve traits. You have to take the Extra Traits feat to get them. You have her listed as having "tactician", the cavalier ability, which is incorrect. I also don't think you can have a cohort with an alignment opposed to yours, but I could definitely be wrong. If you can, you still take a penalty to your leadership score for having a cohort of a different alignment - ensure that you have enough leadership to qualify for a cohort of her level with the penalty.

As far as leadership modifiers, everyone should have the "Has a stronghold" modifier, but that only applies to cohorts.

I'll redo a feat to get two then, it kind of requires her to have the same ones Sanita does, since she's a sister. For the alignment, I forgot it was 'not opposed', so I'll have to change Evelynn to NN.

EDIT : Or Sanita to NN. Honestly she's been acting a lot less chaotic lately, what does everyone think of the way she's been acting lately? More neutral and less chaotic?

And uhm, the has base only applies to followers, not cohorts, unless we're altering the feat?

As to Tactician...

Tactician (Ex): At 5th level, a tactician gains this ability as the cavalier class feature. He may use this ability once per day at 5th level, plus one additional time for every five levels after 5th (to a maximum of four times at 20th level). If the tactician also has cavalier levels, these levels stack for determining the number of uses per day, and he can take the better progression. This ability replaces weapon training 1.

Leadership Score (At 7th, not 6th)

7 (Level) + 2 (Great Renown, From the point of view of her sister certainly) + 1 (Fairness & Generosity, again, from the point of view of the cohort, per the feat) - 1 (Cohort different alignment). All Sanita needs is a 7 or higher to have a level 5 cohort.

For Followers :
7 + 1 (Fairness & Generosity, she's very fair to her followers, if not, you can always reduce the bonus) + 2 (Base of operations) = 10 (Or 12 if she's allowed to recruit from people she's worked with in the past doing spy work for her family to get the +2).

So, 5 to 8 followers?

Right, sorry I mistyped.

Alright, that all seems very workable.

Also! Just to clarify.

Currently, we are re-doing WBL, deciding on kingdom upgrades, and waiting for mdt and I to get our DM stuff out of the way.

Next!

After that, we may have a short period of exploration.

Finally!

We will timeskip a year, apply the kingdom increases, and then proceed onto Chapter Two.

For all of this to happen, we need to make some decisions about the kingdom, ensure that everybody is here (and replace missing folks), re-do our WBL, and split up into two groups.

Also, mdt, I'll have Dareon's potential cohort up as soon as I decide what he/she is going to be. I've got about 90% of an idea about now.

OH! And about cohort ability scores. I don't think I want to allow point-buy for them. I'm thinking just using the heroic NPC stat array, which is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 (plus racial modifiers and level-up score increases). When designing cohorts, ensure that you use these numbers (provided mdt agrees).

I've read the first 2 books of the AP, I need to buy and read 3, so I can make sure my half works well with 3. I'm planning to do that tomorrow.

Now that Evelynn's approved, I'll use her to do some RP in the gameplay thread, and do some minor setup. Plus it'll keep things moving.

Currently the only people we are short is Rowan and Vors. If we don't hear from them in the next day or two, I'll PM them. I also haven't heard from Kertuffle, so not sure when he will be able to respond to us about his notes/etc.

@Dareon, that's fine. Also, I'll remove Evelynn's Step Up feat, move Weapon Focus to 3rd, and put Extra Traits at 1st. I'll figure out the alignment thing before level 7.

@everyone else. If you are planning on taking a cohort at 7th level, do try to get them stat'd up, so they can be introduced for later use in game.

I'm back - with a bag of questions as usual ^^

1) Eldhír is not made using the heroic NPC stat array - want me to change that?

2) Same topic - is she ok otherwise?

3) If fancy strikes me - I might stat up potential Teams. Shall I use the standard NPC array for them ? (8 9 10 11 12 13)

4) I'm thinking of recruiting a team of Bureaucrats as advisers for Fhârn. Is it okay if I give them all slightly different skills like Know (History, Nobility, Local), Linguistics, Sense Motive & Profession (Merchant)?

IE Advisor 1 might be the history specialist while advisor 2 has Know (Local) instead ect.

5) Considering we got some money to spend I was thinking of picking up another mount (and letting my cohort have my horse : ) )

I was thinking of an Megaloceros. It is an Elk that is big enough to ride (kinda like a Dire Elk). Very bad-ass. It has a listed price of 800 gp (scroll down to megafauna [there are also price listings for dinosaurs^^]).

I thought I'd ask before I bought such a fun mount :)

6) If you approve of my choice of mount - there is one more thing. It is not trained for combat riding. I was thinking of hiring a Driver (the generic catch-all team for animals) and have Fhârn spend 6 weeks worth of downtime helping the Driver combat train the mount.

Failing that, would it be okay if I bought the mount readily combat trained for the suggested 1.5*price (1200gp)?

So I sat down and looked over Kertuffle's numbers from the first month of kindom building and I have corrected a few mistakes. After our first month, our treasury holds 66 BP (50 after building stuff + 3 event + 13 taxes). Our stats are +23 Economy, +15 Loyalty and +19 Stability (this is true regardless of if our alignment is chaotic neutral as Kertuffle had or Neutral Good like I thought we planned).

We have 1 district containing a tavern, stable and house. Our one hex has a road and a farm. Also, because Kertuffle's numbers were slightly off, we actually passed the stability check. So there was no unrest our first month (good rolling Bej. :P).

I'm still deciding what I want to do with my cohort. I'd had the idea to have Salvianna (Wilhelm's sister) be my cohort as a court bard, but with Corsario coming into the game and so much family already, I'm not sure I'm in love with that idea. I'm trying to decide if I want to stick to my original idea or come up with some other character who can be a cavalier focused battle herald.

Also, here's a rough idea what Wilhelm looks like. His hair is a little off and he's actually armored cap-a-pie but it's pretty close. I was having fun so I also made one of Lanya and Anastacia. I'm not completely satisfied with the detail on Anastacia, or how the face worked out, but I might go back and give it another go some time. I also tried to do something with Dante but that attempt didn't work out so well. I'll give it a go another time.

@Fharn

1) My understanding is, if an NPC has PC class levels (such as a cohort) it is made using the heroic array and heroic NPCWBL.

2) I don't see anything wrong of the top of my head.

3) Yes, normal followers would use the normal NPC array. Please don't do up entire builds and alias's. I'll get a headache checking them over. :) Small stat blocks are just fine, stats, skills, saves, equip. Maybe in a link on google drive, although that's more of a Lienathan question, as he's handling the kingdom/downtime rules.

4) I don't see why it wouldn't be, although that's more of a Lienathan question, as he's handling the kingdom/downtime rules.

5) I'm not quite sure something the size of a giraffe would make a good mount. Leinathan?

6) If you wanted it combat trained, you'd almost have to buy it trained, anything that's not normally a mount would need to be trained from very young, especially something that big. Kind of like how they train elephants when they're babies that they can't break the lanyard on their foot, then when they're adult, they let a tiny lanyard stop them from running off because they 'know' they can't break it.

@Wilhelm

Nice pictures. I think I know the application you used, but can't remember the name. Something like heromaker?

Nice pics indeed, though the dress Lanya's going to wear will be quite different than what she's wearing there.

5) In pathfinder they are merely Large (although their 'hornspan' are described as quite impressive). Pathfinder giraffes are Huge :) Aesteticly, I was thinking something more alike to the Talbuks of WoW (ie straight horns, not super humongous size ^^). More akin to an overgrown stag then a proper Elk really : )

6) Once again in a pathfinder/reality disconnect - they are just as strong as heavy horses (str 20). (And pathfinder animal handling rules are a bit quirky ^^) Buying trained works if that is what makes most sense.

I'll wait for leinathan's judgement then before going hog wild : )

@Will - I have to echo the others - Nice pictures !

edit: Right - I forgot. I'm not going to give them aliases. But there might be statblocks (I shall try and be brief^^) and, if Fhârn's alias runs out of space, an google docs link : )

I think I'm gonna say no to the megaloceros cohort - I'm fairly certain that regular elk are Large enough to be ridden anyway. Not only that, but megaloceros are ancient and rare.

If you want a combat-trained mount, you'll have to buy it that way.

I'll have a gameplay post up later today - I know it's been awhile. Also, Wilhelm, thanks for the kingdom statblock, you didn't have to do that :)

Oh, and I decided on a cohort for leinathan. A cavalier 3/druid 2, going into Spherewalker. Explorer, Pathfinder, Desnan.

Sadly - Elks are Medium (there are River Elks, but they are unpriced). The megaloceros is the only creature in the Elk family that is both suitable and priced. But I can settle for a horse like a sane person ^^ (Also note, it would not be a cohort. Merely a fancy ride.)

Roger : )

I'm in the midst of re-doing the campaign info tab. I'm very nearly done. Do check in (mdt especially) and let me know if I should add anything more.

I'll be working on the cohort today, too.

Looks good Leinathan, I like it.

Downloaded book 3 today, and have read through it. I think I'm ready for my bit, although it's going to require changing some stuff from book 2 and 3. I think that's ok though, the groups are ahead of schedule on level anyway.

Need to know how long everyone feels we should wait for Rowan and Vors to respond before we start without them, and how long before we look for a replacement if needed?

If we are doing the exploration before the years downtime (which I don't feel is necessary at this point, but it's up to the players), then we'll need to have parties figured out with one person still making a character, and two MIAs.

I did some quick detective work and both Vors and Rowan have been active on the forum within the last 5 hours (on other aliases). It could simply be that they didn't notice that this carried on.

I have PMed Vors and will drop one by Rowan too (figured I might as well, while I'm at it!)

So I say give them a couple of days. I'm sure they'll swing by before that : )

Hey everyone, just dropping this message in all my games. I'm heading into the mountains on a camping trip come tomorrow, and I won't get back till sometime Sunday afternoon. Bot me as needed, and I'll see you all when I get back.

Wyssal Sloboda, Halfling Bard, Political activist, is almost ready. I should have something to show tomorrow.

Can somebody find me the skills that correspond to each leadership position? I'm trying to find everyone's bonus to the kingdom.

I believe they're listed alongside the position in Kertuffle's kingdom spreadsheet (linked at the top of the page).

Also, some of the others might have a hard time finding this page with the URL change. It might be worth it to send PMs to all the player's with the new URL. :)

Kingdoms & War has the positions and rules, as well as the optional stuff Kertuffle was using.

@Sanita - Your house is at Oleg's/Zatoksta? Hmm. That reminds me ...

@Everyone, regarding our seat of power.

Earlier, we spoke of moving down to the Stag Lord's place asap and moving our capital there. Are we still on this track? Considering people have started spending gold on houses (and I was planning on joining that crowd!), it might be good to know where one should plant said house.

I haven't played any kingdom builder pathfinder before (plenty of civ thou ^^) so I'm not sure if it is reasonable for us to expect being able to establish this second city within the year of downtime given to us. Anyone knows ?

Also, this page had an URL change? *looks at browser bar* I be darned ...

@Fharn
Yeah, but remember, you can sell your houses in the downtime rules as well and recoup the investment. Since we haven't even begun working out anything for the fort, the only place to build is Olegs. Once we have the year of downtime, Sanita will sell her house (which will be worth more as people move in to Olegs) and rebuild it at the Stag Fort.

@Sanita/Houses

But due to Pathfinders magic-economy rules you only get 50% of what you spent back, remember ^^?

But yeah, I realize we haven't established another foothold yet, which is why I asked the ones a bit more knowledgeable about the Kingdom Building rules if 1 year is enough to found a second city (without capsizing the economy).

I don't think so Fharn, a house is more of a trade good than loot.

If you can have a marble statue worth 500GP, and it always sells for 500GP or can be purchased for 500gp, then why would the house be different? House and land is an investment good.

Example, you buy a car for 10,000 and sell it for 5,000 a year later.

Outside of the housing market collapsing, you don't buy a house for 100,000 and sell it for 50,000 a year later.

No, but the rules in the Downtime section (like all other rules where PCs sell stuff!) shafts PCs. I assumed you refereed those since you mentioned them.

Sell Assets: If you wish to sell a building or organization, you can do so during this step. You can sell a building or organization for half its cost to buy or create (based on either the gp or the Goods, Influence, Labor, or Magic listed in the building's cost). There is a 75% chance that it takes you 3d6 days to find a buyer. This delay doesn't require you to spend any downtime days. You can shorten this delay, reducing it by 1d6 days (to a minimum of 0 days) for each 1 point of Influence you spend. You collect the proceeds upon the conclusion of the sale.

While your analysis of the marked is perfectly reasonable (common sense even!) the rules does not operate that way^^ Which is why I though I'd ask before I spend money on something I might not be able to use fully.

But if we are inclined, to say apply some better market simulation - perhaps just a 1:1 sell-off - my concerns would be moot.

Ah, I missed that part. Hmmm...

Then at worst, Sanita would only buy a very basic house, couple of hundred GP, and wait until the move to build a bigger one.

From a GM standpoint, I have no issues with permanent structures being 1:1 (with negotiations adjusting the price +/- 15 %). But that's a decision I can't make by myself.

As I get ready to leave on my trip, I agree! The half price sell value idea is kind of based on walking into a shop and asking "how much?" selling a building puts you less on someone else's turf and terms and you more are the merchant, not someone selling to the merchant.

I also see no problem with permanent structures being 1:1, but I'm also just going to build myself a new house in any new cities that I care about.

As for the year, it's very unlikely that we'll get so far. We might have a size 5 kingdom by the time the downtime is over. It's very expensive to start up new cities.

I also recommend not letting any of our kingdom bonuses fall below our Control DC - we should only ever be able to fail on a 1, because the consequences of failure are often very staggering.

Roger - I'll get building then : )

ps. Got a reply from Vors - he should swing by later : )