Kyesa, Land of Psionics and Abberant Things

Game Master jimibones83

"That was the correct course of action, it was not what we asked of you. Still, it was a useful observation". The man pauses as he throws more seed.

"Hobgoblins can be nasty creatures, but there are tribes that can be reasoned with. It would be wise to know what we are dealing with. This is where you and your group come in. It is the councils will that you to be our hand in the matter. Reach out to them, parley with their general, and appeal to his senses. Your goal would be to forge a mutual respect between them and us, but also to observe. Do you think you can handle this?"

Jin hesitates as the thought of doing such was not his expertise. And he would not want the mission to be based on false pretenses. " So you wish for our group to parley with them. I must inform you, even at our remote village, I barely have the ability to speak well or influence others. I cannot see this going as you predict, in which case what are we to do if the Hobgoblins do NOT like our offer? "

"Hobgoblins are a crude bunch, smooth talkers may even anger them". The old man stops throwing seed for just a moment to look at Jin. "Jin my boy, you may find this task cut just for you". A hint of a smile peeks out from the mans face, and he goes back to feeding the birds.

"But, your concerns are also ours. Your groups safety is a top priority. We will send you with payment which should suffice as tribute for your lives if things should come to that. Bury it before you reach them. It's a large sum. Use it as a bargaining chip only if absolutely necessary."

Jin takes the Elder's words to heart and nods curtly. " In that case, I shall do as you say. I pray your faith is me is not misplaced. When do you plan on informing the others of the Hunting Party? I believe at least Elisa and I need a day or two to recuperate. Is there a set time you would want this accomplished? " Jin shook a bit a conflicted feeling of Dread and Praise.

"I'll leave it up to you to gather your party. The councils business is the towns business, so it's always of high importance, but there is certainly a few days to spare for your team to prepare."

Normally you and your group would report your departure just before you head out.

" By your decision then I will go forth and inform our party. We will contact you upon departure. I must ask however.. Elder why did you meet with I alone? " Jin stands fully up and looks to the Elder in confusion.

"Would you prefer I contact another member of your group with inquires?"

It's a party faces job to speak for the party. You guys might lack a face build, but someone would still act as the face. He took it as you from your last meeting. Sometimes he mig htsummon you all, sometimes it he might summon just the party face. It's always easier to deal with just one person, so if it's feasible, that's what someone in his position would do.

Jin stays still " I was simply curious, if you believe I the best choice then so be it. I have no misgivings to your choice I simply wished to inform you of possible... hiccups. " Jin bowed and turned giving the Elder his due respect before leaving to find the rest of the party.

Haldir nods as to indicate understanding, then goes back to feeding the birds.

Once Jin had left the task to find and inform the group was actually quite daunting. Elisa enjoyed being on her lonesome. Lan was fairly odd, though no worse than his own, sneaking and watching other people without their notice of his presence. Zara seemed to be, surprisingly, the easiest target to find considering he had an actual residence to frequent.

The walk would take some odd 15minutes, but during this time the worried Protector thought of the severity of their next task. It was not a simple observation assignment, their success possibly the beginnings of great things, either weal or woe. The Hunting Party would come as responsible. Not to mention the trek there could be perilous as well from the previous adventure, as shown by the near-fatal meeting with the Winter Wolf. How could Jin and the group work this to benefit the entire village and forge a strong bond? He would need to work his hardest to do so.

Once he had reached Zara's abode, Jin called out to the psion. There was information to tell. " Zara! Are you home by chance? I am aware of the tie you may be resting from our Ordeal but we have... more that is needed of the Hunting Party "

Zaralastra notices Jin at the door.

Greetings, Jin. I see you are recovering well. Have you some news for us?

Meanwhile, Lan had gone to visit Elisa in whatever place was sensible for her to have gone to receive extended care to get her on her feet faster. On the way, he'd picked up a small meal of breakfast for her, as he was well aware that humans needed to eat. Something warm and actually well-made, as opposed to trail-made would be a good change of pace that might help her recovery.

Jin nods to Zara his disposition one of deep thought. " I have done well as one who was nearly bitten in half. I am still quite sore. However that is not what is important as of now. Zara, The council has decided on our next mission. This time it shall be one of.. Diplomacy. We are to establish relations with the Hobgoblins close to here. "

Then let us assemble the rest of the Hunting Party and you can tell all of us the details at once.

Patting his stiff shoulders Jin acknowledges Zara's suggestion. " You have deduced my next suggestion quite fast. Such is the mind of a person such as yourself. However the other two are problem children when it comes to that. I believe Elisa went to an Apothecary after her injuries but Lan.. He has strange inner workings. We might be lucky to find either. If you have nothing in particular I would ask you accompany me. " Jin motioned as if he would leave if Zara was ready.

Zaralastra accompanies Jin, confident that he has a better chance of finding Elisa and Lan than Zaralastra would.

Jin seeks to track down the Elusive Elisa and Lan...

Crocodile Hunter

Elisa would likely be at whatever the village considered the doctor still recovering from her injuries.

Does the town have a medic or the like? and how much would it be to heal what they can in the time we had?

Jin surmised from her previous injuries and unwillingness to accept the elixir created by him, that Elisa would seek care elsewhere. Upon locating her, Jin would give here time to compose herself and then speak, " Are you yet well? "

Lan would be quietly sitting in the corner of [insert location here], paying careful attention to the goings-on. If Elisa hadn't eaten the food, it would be sitting somewhere nearby her. While he seemed to be listening and watching, he was as quiet as ever, when there was nothing important to discuss.

As Jin mutters the simple inquiry his peripheral vision notes something odd. It wasn't until a few moments of Jin breaking intense focus that his head naturally turns in a different direction, which to his surprise, Lan was present. The man still seemed to elude Jin's keen senses, despite Lan's more strange habits. " It seems you also had company... and this makes my job easier I suppose. "

"It was the most likely place for you to go if we were required." Lan informs him, not bothering to make eye contact. "Trying to find me can be difficult."

Jin stares at Lan harder though not necessarily with Ill intent. He then nods closing his eyes in acceptance and folding his arms into each other. " I cannot deny you logic in that instance. Based on injuries alone this was the appropriate area to locate Elisa at least. Now then because we are all present I can at least start the information correspondence. Unfortunately we were not given payment for our last mission but this one may do so. It is a task of diplomacy, to attempt to create a truce with the creatures we had seen before.. The Hobgoblins. "

jin allows some time to let the seriousness of this job sink in.

Lan nodded, legitimately unconcerned. "We have a common threat."

Zaralastra observes in silence, having nothing to offer at this point.

" Indeed, the Council has deemed it beneficial to create Relations with said tribe. Appeal to the general there and above all else observe them closely as information, as we discovered, is king. We were given a lump sum of payment if the negotiations become sour, however we are to hide it until time is needed to use such. Other than that, our overarching mission is Survival.. Survive to achieve the task; Survive to return with whatever the results. That is The Hunting Party's Mission! I assume you all understand? " Jin says with a somewhat rough voice then looks to each individual.

Zaralastra nods, Understood.

Lan nodded.

" Good, if so then know we do not have to set out immediately. As to the Elder's wisdom and my own cautiousness we have a few days to recover. In this time we shall fully recuperate, train and gather supplies. Prior to leaving we shall come up with a few plans of action before engaging the target as well as strategies for if we meet danger on route. This promises the best chance of survival while completing our intended goal. " Jin did a sweeping movement to illustrate this fact.

" So until then you may do as you please. I for one intend to repay the debts I have made and grow from our previous experiences. I have recently mitigated the issue with the temperature and hardened my core defense. This should ensure increased safety of the party. Do you have any questions or concerns? "

Lan nodded. "They are nearby, but we should not rely on their hospitality. You will not grow cold, but the rest of us will. We should acquire a large tent."

" One that was particularly Fire-Retardant would be best as heat would become a major factor in staving of extreme cold. Ideally the tent would be set up in a cave or near a walled surface of some type. This is a good suggestion Lan. Anything else? "

Lan shook his head, holding out a small purse with just under forty-two gold. "It will also shield the majority of a fire's light from outsiders."

a pavilion tent holds 10 and a fire for 100. We might be able to get a smaller equivalent for less. That's significantly more than what would put Lan up to a heavy load, however.

No worries there Lan wouldn't need to carry it, as 90% of the time Jin will be using Medium armor an his ACP is higher than what Medium Load gives, he could carry it much like the Pelts and 50lbs of Catmeat from before. We just need to afford it.

Jin balanced the amount noting they would need a bit more to fund such an item one which would be quite useful to current group especially if it grew to its previous 6 person party.

" Before I forget, as this would be a diplomatic approach no doubt we would need a representative for the ..group. The Elder had given his decision upon this matter but I ask who you all would want to designate in said position? No doubt we shall be able to speak as a group some times but there will be times where a singular person must do so instead. Especially when our informed mission is with a race who retains militaristic practices. "

"The person most likely to survive if forced to meet with their leader alone. I am the most likely to get away." After a short pause. "I do not enjoy speaking for others, and will be unable to utilize my skills to full effect if observed. I am not the proper choice. Elisa's first strike appears to be exceedingly deadly. But she is not particularly likely to survive."

" I assume this is based on your honest observations and experiences thus far. You are not one to speak much, which is true. So it is safe to say you have come to a... similar decision. I will encourage you to develop that vein at some point. There are times when during subterfuge one must speak and convince. "

Elans in general are not known for their social skills. We may simply have to make do with what we have.

@Elisa The medic has been informed to care for you on the towns account, so you will he healed to maximum for free.

You guys can similarly request supplies, such as the tent, from the council.

Also, you might find a good speaker at the temple who is willing to accompany you, and who the grandmaster feels is ready. If not, it would still be a good way for me to introduce any other new member we add.

" I was not aware your kind had such an issue. So your decision is to simply make due? Was there anything you think we needed or did you agree with the tent Zara? "

"Nor was I."

I think if we are at the Temple so Lets do that

" I think I might be able to procure further assistance from the Temple here. I wondered what your opinions were on it. Our party was originally six strong, a person or two would give us more options. "

Lan simply shrugged. He did not feel strongly for, nor against more people. Every person they took from the village was one person fewer defending it.

I do not mean to say that our kind is entirely and invariably lacking in social skills, only that, on average, our social interactions with humans do not tend to go as smoothly. But perhaps that will not matter when dealing with hobgoblins.

From Ultimate Psionics section on Elans: "Aberrant Nature: Although human in appearance, elans suffer from a nature slightly off from the rest of the non-elan society. They suffer a -1 penalty to Charisma-based skill checks when dealing with non-elans."

Do we need some sort of unobtrusive marker to indicate where we have hidden the money? That is the only thing that comes to my mind. Perhaps our new replacement members, if we can acquire them, will have some useful ideas.

I know about the penalty, it's part of why Lan has a 12 charisma :p, so he isn't completely alien to people who've known him forever. The fact that his attitude and such is strange doesn't change the fact that he's only as worthy of gossip as the next guy. :P

Lan didn't really have anything to add. Marking the money seemed odd, as it would make it possible for others to notice it. Would it not be easier to simply remember where it was? Though going far from the village likely made that more difficult.

" No we need no marker, the mind is the best marker and it leaves little traces to be found. Either way It seems decided by majority including Lan's indecision. We shall gather a few, if you would like to accompany me to the Headmaster of the Temple, you may. He is the last say on whether the recipient is worthy or not even above our own needs. "

Jin turned and headed towards the Headmaster.

Autohypnosis

Zaralastra follows Jin out the door.

The temple was almost second nature to Jin. He had roamed its corridors time and time again, it was his home.. so to speak. The wisdom and comfort such a place gave him was an experience he often shared with no one. Today, they would need to speak to the esteemed Headmaster, one of which often needed to be approached to gain approval on various tasks. Jin respected the Headmaster, not just for the title.

Elisa now healed would follow after the group making sure to leave 10 gold at the healers workplace.

Does Elisa even have any gold? I don't see it on your sheet.

All my gear is up to date on the mythweavers sheet, clicking human on my profile should be a link. sorry I'll update my paizo profile.

We will likely be discussing the game here for a couple days before we get started. Welcome!

Alrighty then, Good to be here. We shall go forward in Unity's name.n What kind of discussion did you have in mind?

Gameplay will be for direct game topics, discussion will for anything else. So whether you want to ask the group what power the reccomend taking at level 3, or if they like C cups over D cups, ask in discussion.

Personally, I think a nice firm C cup is perfect. Lol

Checking in, would you like us to use alias or primary accounts in the discussion?

Alias

Ano... Less is more. :)

:P Thanks for taking the crazed Elan despite the fact that there really wasn't much space for Elans. :) I'd been a bit worried it'd be easier just to keep what made sense for the world as you'd seen it. :)

B cup is my choice but I Won't deny a firm C cup. Fits in the hands.

B cups are just as good as C cups. Between the 2, its the remainder of factors that are more important.

You see I Also think of the logistics involving wear and tear over time. B's seem to hold up better with age.

So, it looks like, as is, we will be playing without a healer or a full manifester. We had them numbered in our submissions, but I cut them out for my own reasons. Would anyone care to fill one of those spots instead? I'm not requesting, just informing and allowing.

Would you mind if I moved my cha to 10 and bumped my wisdom to 13, a feat I might take later requires it

I'd prefer not to :) I'm pretty devoid of knowledge when it comes to psionics beyond Cryptic. And the skillset fits the old character I'm emulating. :)

Ahh I could have sworn the Vitalist made it.

The gunman and our future captain, if I remember right, are still hanging out somewhere. :P

Also, a note on Lan: Lan, unlike most of my characters, is going to be fairly quiet. Count yourself lucky, as the original character was effectively mute. :P Though it's also important to recognize that this is because the character is trained to be quiet. Less so than the original by far... but a lot of what Lan does will be spending time on concentration effects, such as Empathy. Whenever Lan is casting, one of his tattoos will be glowing softly. :) Most likely he'll be using Empathy a -lot-, especially on any perceived enemies. Early on, at least, on allies as well.

Also... I still need to select Lan's languages. And I'm contemplating locking the character into speaking only one (noncommon) language, while understanding more. That could easily be frustrating and/or pointless in the long run for any reason besides RP and can in fact -hurt- RP possibilities. So I'll completely understand if others don't like the idea. :)

It would be pretty hard to turn my current character into healing but depending on party funds we could do potions/wands or even a hireling cleric

if anyone plans to take leadership cleric sidekicks are pretty great

@Elisa since we havent started yet, thats fine, so long as you maintain a 25 point build. Don't forget to adjust your skills and saves.

@Lan Thats correct, but they hail from a land far far away. I reckon we'll be hearing from them soon though. It's early morning there now.

As to languages, the ones I'm certain of right now are-

common
elven
dwarven
giant
orc
goblin
undercommon

Note: Neither elves nor dwarves have settlements of their own. Instead, they make up a small percentage of the population belonging to the diverse mountaintop settlements. Their native languages are still know, but are rarely used in day to day activities. However, the opposite is true of the races outside these settlements. Most of them do not speak common at all.

Heck Im all for just running with what w have now and changing when we have to. Remember, Magic doesnt exist. There is no such thing as Clerics.

@Lan I play a character in another game that has a 6 cha, he is literally mute.

Neither clerics nor wands exist, but dorjes do. However, psionic items are rare, often created by the user. Without a healer or a full manifester, you guys may spend your entire careers questing for components to have gear made, and as payment to have that gear made.

I'm going to handle healing potions differently than normal though, which will certainly benefit you guys quite a bit. I'm going to allow them be crafted for free with a successful craft alchemy check. However, ingredients must first be tracked down with a successful survival check. You will be able to purchase these potions for half price, but they will still max out at 3rd level heal power. If someone would like to move a couple skill points around so you guys have craft alchemy, feel free.

I'll let you guys know the specifics of potions before we start.

Well, Lan -does- have the same power progression as a bard, pretty much. So I wouldn't mind taking any crafting feats we might need.

I also get scribe tattoo for free, which is pretty much like 'brew potion'. Not exactly, as the person has to be able to activate it themselves, but I -can- pass psionic tattoos from person to person. :)

And... I don't really have a healing spell until level 3, and then it's a second level 'spell'. So there's that :P

Likewise, I -could- build a vitalist, and base it off of the -other- character I had that was a Minerva... but she was a little off. :)

Like... River from Firefly off.

Either way, Craft Wand at 5 is something I could totally do, and until then, I'll have my 'brew potion' equivalent, if other folks -do- have access to healing powers. :)

Right no magic does make healing hard, I could drop stealth and take Alchemy or Survival or I could drop stealth and knowledge (psionics) and pick up both if the party would prefer that

Also do you plan to add Celestial or Abyssal to Languages?

Also do you plan to add Celestial or Abyssal to Languages?

Not for this game. I want to flesh out my world a bit before I start focusing on how it is effected by the other planes. I have some ideas as to what I'm going to do, but want to focus on more immediate things at this time.

Ok, rules on creating elixirs has been added to the campaign info tab. Check them out, tell me what you think.

They seem significantly easy to make, if you have the proper stats to do so. Not easy at -our- level, mind you.

Though the 1d8 duration is kind of a negative. I'd standardize it a bit with like 1d4+4 or something, if you feel the duration needs to stay. The DC30 heal check you make going bad a day later is just lame.

Duration of effectiveness is an important factor. Normally, magic potions cost half as much to create, and selling them fetches only half. So if you were to sit around all day making potions and selling them, you'd never make a dime. However, I'm letting people make them for free with an appropriate skill checks. Even selling them at half of half price, you'd make a killing during downtime. This will ensure a very limited market for them. I don't think the short lifespan is bad considering they are free. However, I think yur right. I do like the sound of 1d4+3 days better.

As for making them, Any character with an 20 Int trained in craft alchemy as a class skill can take a 10 for no chance of failure at level 2. More potent ones get a bit difficult, but again, they are free, and only take a couple hours to attempt.

Just reporting in.

Also, acting a little on what I have read so far from you, in descending order:

D-Cup, but I have big hands and a girlfriend with that so...

Clerics, like Jin say, will have a hard time existing in a world with no magic/no religion :)

And I have no idea about crafting Potions... I know Luke won't get high enough on Craft Alchemy or Heal to be worth it..

As a small note: So Lawful, eh? So I am to switch my alignment to Lawful-Something, correct?

If I see things right, you have lawful neutral, true neutral, chaotic good, and neutral good with chaotic leanings... plus whatever you make yourself. :)

@Luke I kind of expected you to track the ingredients for elixirs and someone else to craft them. They will also be for sale though.

You don't have to switch your alignment to lawful, I just put that there for anyone who does play lawful. I'm constantly having players try to tell me their crazy ass actions are lawful to their own code. That crap might be in the CRB, but it don't fly with me. By that standard, everything would be lawful. In my games, lawful is defined as in the spoiler.

@Lan

L-G...L-N
N-G... N
C-G

are the acceptable alignments

In case anyone's curious, Kyesa is the name of the planet. It's pronounced Kie-sa, no ee sound.

@Lan I lowered the DC's on crafting elixirs and changed the duration of effectiveness. Now, any trained Int build should be able to take 10 and make a level appropriate elixir without chance of failure. The duration is better as well, but still won't allow anyone to get rich from selling elixirs.

I might tinker with it a bit more so that surpassing the DC increases the duration rather than the strength, but I'll leave it as is for now.

Bypassing by more than 5 and every 5 after could either make MORE of the smaller potions OR make it where the Str goes up by one or more effective 'CL'/ 'ML' for the purpose of healing.

For example you set the ingredients to make a minor potion, therefore 15 is your DC. However you decide to roll or get much higher, you instead create a 1d8+3 potion instead. You exceed by 10 and perhaps make 2 1d8+3 from the same materials. And this scales up.

As far as the Lawful Alignment, thats pretty close to what I planned to do with this 'paladin' and his religion/philosophy 'Unity'

I also noticed myself that I forgot to mention the alternative Human trait I chose, which was Heart of the Wilderness.. the reason I did not gain an additional skill point. Though Craft Weapons was a part of his story I could always take it next level. I could reroute one skill point into Craft Alchemy and one into Survival. Since I intend to be the Paladin like figure being part Apothecary makes sense.

Currently, you make a craft alchemy check. If you get a 17 then you produce a single minor elixir. If you get a 27 then you produce a single strong elixir. Normally you would be limited as to how many you posess by how many you can afford, but these are free, which means there needs to be another limiting factor. That factor is the time it takes to produce them by the time they keep their potency. It's there on purpose.

You guys don't have a healer. This isn't meant to replace a healer, its meant to give you some sort of means to heal, so that you aren't constantly spending all your hard earned coin on staying alive. With a few days downtime, a person could craft dozens of potions for free.

It's a work in progress though. Just don't expect it to be a source of unlimited healing potions, because that's not what its suppose to be.

Pardon that I haven't posted before, you know how dreadful timezones can be for us all. As for the very vital and important questions of rather impressive proportions.

I am a bit of a hedonist, so I go with the simple mindset that bigger is better and that you can't have too much of a good thing.

More cushion.. for the pushin'

I'm aware it is not to give a replacement for a healer, but in a world without magic it makes sense that alot of places simply dont have them, healers that is. So I could be effectively the healer. Pulling Double Duty, but its fine considering I can take 2 characters worth of damage before trouble starts in.

I was just noting if anyone wanted me to switch to such a thing, I'd be fine doing so. The potion idea was just a suggestion.

I have to ask, what a Longarm master is?

@Jin Maybe that would be a good idea, cuz now i don't want to mess around with the elixirs lol. I got a lot of stuff to figure out as is.

So scratch the homebrew elixirs. Someone can heal psionically or we will just rough it. Either way it will be fine.

Hunh? I think you got my words confused. I simply meant that psionic healing might not be available and in some areas these potions would b the means of doing so.

And that my character would do so.. I was going to trade Reactionary out to get Survival as a class skill and trade my craft.. thats it really.

Sorry, I may have misunderstood. I thought everyone was unhappy with what I came up with. We can keep the elixirs if you all want to, but all the restrictions will apply.

As for survival, Luke has it trained. No need for 2 people to have it. Plus, I think it works out better for it to be a team effort anyway. These are just my suggestions though, you guys can handle it however you like.

:) I was just filling in the other player on the alignments we had in group, so he wouldn't have to go digging. He seemed confused about which alignments were available, so I felt it probably had to do with trying to fit the group's overall alignment. :) So I made sure to mention our group runs the gamut of alignments.

I chose Goblin, Giant, and Elven as my bonus languages.

Well I speak Common and Githyanki... Hoping to spot some of those Old Tombs filled with all the goodies.

And yay! Survival ish good!

And no, I won't be running Luke like some Redneck person with a Bow and just shoot everything in site... Jut to let you know that :P

I'll stick to the basic and pick Undercommon and Common. I have had some nasty experiences with a group that couldn't speak under common at all. I'll have to ensure that we never get their fate. I mean... crushed by an army of deep dwarves? That's just twisted.

Ah well, I guess that is the hardships of life.

Oh yeah, and githyanki. Almost forgot that was a language you could know. It makes way more sense for a ranger to know it though anyway.

Alright guys, I don't have all the details on the town figured out yet, but it's about the size of Sandpoint and run by a panel of elders. It houses a monk temple that contains a large pagoda dedicated to psionic study and training. There are a few taverns, but the one is like you guys to stick to is known as The Eye. The town is not policed, but the monks do uphold the law and the grandmaster is always a member of the panel of elders.

Your not all necessarily best friends, but you have all grown up in the same small town and know each other well if not close.

Well we seem not to have Dwarven covered so I would get that and Githyanki. As far as the Survival thing, It possible for him to fail a DC 20 so two chances at it are better than one, we both gather the the materials during the daytime/freetime and then during watch/ when it not safe to gather materials, I craft. For my PrC I need a Craft anyway, might as well be useful to the party. As far as Survival, It along with my death threshold will increase by half my level anyway, so I might as well put at least a rank into it.

It seems our story is coming together, so why dont we now try and find reasons for why we wold meet and want to travel together?

I've got a reason in mind that should be pretty exciting for level 1 characters. I was ready to start today, but I want to wait and see what Vitesse submits

Is it dependent on what he submits? Otherwise I assume there is some RP in there and we wont outpace him anyways.

On the other hand your the boss, I think I will change my trait and skills anyway, if only because alot of people have reactionary and they are ranged, me going first or last doesnt matter much.

Not dependant on what he submits, just that if he's accepted, its better to have you all start together. It just always seems cheesy to me to add people to the party at strange times all the time because that's when its convenient out of game. I'd just rather him join the party when there's a reason to form one.

I'm a lil buzzed up right now, so I hope that came out right. Drink in some brews with a buddy, check in out this new COD

That came out fine, your still pretty coherent. I admit I hate the same thing so even when I join a group I will wait when its appropriate for my character to be there. I'm actually doing that in a game right now, botting someone who left until they leave and I can introduce my own character. Anyway I'll be ready when you are.

I wonder what connections we will make, especially since some of us will be similar in some ways later one.

I'm also Curious what A Elisa is thinking of doing overall, IE some sort of aim?