:P Well, you've found a rare person. I'm on the same vein as you, in simply wanting rules to play out as they should. But I also don't like to see other people fail. I'll point out when things aren't played properly, same as you, but I take no enjoyment out of screwing over the players, and a -great deal- of enjoyment out of saving a life in doing so. People love their characters. Wanting a character to die, or even fail, is like wanting someone's sister to get sick. It's kind of a jerk move. And by 'kind of', I mean 'really, really'.
Jin's point is reasonable enough, if both heating and reasonable shelter was provided then surely there would be no reason at all to make fortitude saves at all.
I agree with that as well, James, but it's still GM fiat. If we make all the necessary precautions, and he just decides 'there are no caves that you can weather this in, in the area', then that's what we have to deal with. Making fortitude saves for a forced march -on top- of exposure rolls is -going- to kill us, when we try to go back home, over sheltering in -whatever shelter we can find-. It's up to the GM on whether or not you can find 'perfect shelter'. As far as we know, these mountains don't -have- caves for whatever strange reason.
You wouldnt have to do a forced march is the issue there, when tracking you move half your speed. IF we did do a forced march it would be for MAYBE an hour or two. Most of our time has been take up by tracking. I cannot logically see us being that far from home.. which is the reason we were sent out.. because it was so close.
@Jin Normally, if a town were in the mountains, the people would probably make checks every hour for it being below 40 degrees. This would be a rough lifestyle, and could claim lives. But, entering a building with a fire would warm them up so they could heal the damage, because enclosures hold heat, especially when insulated. Unfortunately you guys don't have that luxury. The best you could find has obstructions, but no walls, and no ceiling what so ever. However, you and the townsfolk are actually acclimated to the temperature and don't have to make the check until it drops below 0. That also means you are considered warmed up once it climbs back above 0, healing that nonlethal damage at the rate of 1/hr.
Between the acclimation and the cold weather outfits, I'm more comfortable hitting you guys with the cold environment that I envisioned. Nonlethal damage may be a normal event, but healing it will also be a natural occurrence once day breaks.
@Lan You'r acclimated and therefor protected from sub-40 temps, but are still susceptible to sub-0. In fact, sub-0 is exactly what the checks were just for.
We're moving through mountains. That's 1/2 to 3/4. We're not following trails or a highway, as far as I know. That means we move 12 miles in an 8 hour march. We legitimately can't go any faster than our tracking speed here. This means that if we spent 6 hours moving to where we are, and spent an -entire hour- going each way to see the hobgoblins, we'd still be 9 miles away, leaving us with 6 hours of forced march -without- the benefits of staying out of the weather. That would almost certainly kill Lan. :)
Also, that's only 8 miles, if you were in heavy armor for the full 8 hour march.
I had cold weather gear as well and he gave me all the rolls maybe he just mmissed it but it's not a huge deal anyway imo
I did miss it on your sheet, my bad. However, I'm giving everyone the option to add it now and add a +5 to their fort save (if i didnt already add it), and ignore the 2nd and 3rd save.
That is logical, I would ask however how one would do so outside, would you somehow have to arrange a grouping of tents to do so without them catching aflame? I would have to assume a certain level of survival techniques/technology has to exist if we have Rifles and such.
We're moving through mountains. That's 1/2 to 3/4. We're not following trails or a highway, as far as I know. That means we move 12 miles in an 8 hour march. We legitimately can't go any faster than our tracking speed here. This means that if we spent 6 hours moving to where we are, and spent an -entire hour- going each way to see the hobgoblins, we'd still be 9 miles away, leaving us with 6 hours of forced march -without- the benefits of staying out of the weather. That would almost certainly kill Lan. :)
Also, that's only 8 miles, if you were in heavy armor for the full 8 hour march.
I was in heavy Armor yes.
I did miss it on your sheet, my bad. However, I'm giving everyone the option to add it now and add a +5 to their fort save (if i didnt already add it), and ignore the 2nd and 3rd save.
That's my fault I put it on the sheet but not on the profile so i'll still take the 4 nonlethal and i'll update my profile
I have spent a great deal of time in the wilderness in both sub-freezing and sub-zero temps, in sites extremely similar to the one illustrated on your map even. I assure you, if it's 0 degrees, a fire would not cause that area to be warm AT ALL. It would cause one side of your body to be warm if within a few feet of the fire, and that is all. You would need a better enclosure to achieve anything more. If your stance is that you should have been able to find a cave, then that's a reasonable complaint. I just kinda thought this was a neat map.
I have not misused the rules in anyway. The post I made 3 up, combined with this one, should explain it well enough. If you feel I have not been fair, then you are underestimating the dangers of sub-freezing temperatures. That said, the cold acclimation I threw you guys actually keeps you relatively safe. It also seemed fair because other mountain dwelling creatures possess it, and your people have lived in the mountains for centuries. I'm not bending the rules in or out of your favor, just trying to do what I think makes sense.
That is logical, I would ask however how one would do so outside, would you somehow have to arrange a grouping of tents to do so without them catching aflame? I would have to assume a certain level of survival techniques/technology has to exist if we have Rifles and such.
A cave will normally suffice. I just thought this map was kinda cool, and since we will have plenty of nights in caves, I thought maybe this would be a neat map to use once.
There are also structures you could quickly build with a survival check that may work, such as a tp or lean-to, though they wouldn't work as well as a cave, if at all.
@Elisa It's ok, I'd rather just let everyone add it before the check. Retcon the roll as if you have been wearing it the whole time
That map is pretty neat.... I have to admit that.
*shrug* Alright, though as you have said, I also have camped in cold.. COLD areas but I might just have cold acclimation much like the rules describe. And as nice as a map as it was, a cave would have been what'd we go for. Either way I'll just update gear right fast. Now let us continue.
Just curious, have you camped in a tent when it's below zero outside? If so, what did you think?
I've camped in such conditions for days at a time, not even getting above zero during the day. I actually liked it quite a bit. You obviously have to have the right kind of gear, but it's pretty nice not getting eaten up by mosquito's or worrying about poison ivy. Having to pee in the middle of the night blows though.
Well lads, I am creeping back into my bed. All of this talk about coldness has made me yearn for the warm embrace and tranquility of my bedsheets.
G'night.
For me it was fairly enjoyable, I had to go up north in Canada to do some Ice Fishing. I agree it was much better than dealing with heavy sweat and mosquitoes. I am immune to poison Ivy so that one isnt much of an issue to me. When it came to drainin' the lizard, it was easier for me due to a slightly greater sight while dark but MAN was the rush jarring when you opened the flap. And the heat afterward was awkward. I however had my uncle's ol' Wolfpelts and my Gran's Blanket.. treasured Items. Kept me warm enough for my tastes.
I also go to Ren Faires so often I would wear my Armor (Which Im slowly building up) With a combination of leather and Pelts. Like I said, if was fairly the same I've only had one or to uncomfortable nights but that was when it was sub 40 and I forgot to eat that day.
I grew up in the Canadian Midwest, north of North Dakota. So I am very well acquainted with cold temperatures beyond the imagining of most Americans living outside the upper Midwest.
I live in Illinois. Temperatures are pretty whack here. One winter it got down to -80 with the windchill. On the flip side, 2 summers ago it was in the 130's everyday for like 3 weeks straight.
I'm bout to post instruction on the workings of turns in campaign info, in case anyone needs them.
Edit* Snap, I already did. lol
lol
[waiting intensifies]
But wow, if this IS an actual Mountain Lion, we might be boned
summoning the sword is a move action so retcon that, sorry
Between Lan forgetting his stealth roll and missing a desired knowledge check, it made me realize, I didn't really give instruction on what rolls I expect you to make and which ones I will make myself. To clear it up, I want players to make their own rolls when they perform an action they know requires one. For other things, such as perception checks to notice something your not looking for, I may roll it for you or request you roll it yourself. I will always roll initiative.
I didn't miss a knowledge roll :p. Likewise, I didn't feel a stealth roll was necessary; even with Lan's bonuses, on that first turn, he'd only have a +1; until Jin distracted it with a hammer, it was literally impossible. Only once it stopped being aware of Lan was it something Lan could do; he was observed on turn one, so couldn't hide. Just get to cover, then maneuver within cover. :)
You need two things to stealth in combat: a reason for them to lose track of you, and something to use to make tracking you difficult; a very fast character may run around two corners in a dungeon, then slip back into the shadows. Stealthing won't do a thing if you jump into a wardrobe with orcs hot on your trail though. So stealthing in the same round is impossible, without something to distract them from you hopping into the wardrobe in the first place (and then, with a solid penalty). If they come into the room after you've been unobserved for a round, then, and only then, is 'real' hiding possible.
Short version: it was up to you during the first round to determine if there was a distraction, when you told me to roll, I assumed that meant you felt it was distracted. What I forgot, though, was the -10 for stealthily under such conditions. :)
I see. Yes, I do consider battle a distraction though, since it would distract a caster, forcing a concentration check.
Very glad to know that! It's a significant buff for Lan's chances to hit when he doesn't have to be more mobile!
I've had all kinds of rulings on distraction. I've had dms outlaw stealthing during combat beyond the opening turn, I've had them allow restealthing for free as long as you weren't targeted... I've had them give stealthers bonuses for folks being distracted by combat, and have had them give perception bonuses because combat put them on guard. Stealth is a messy system. :p
That's a good point about creature who've targeted you. I'll have to think about that a bit. I may grant them an auto success on the perception.
That's basically how I do it. They -do- have to make the effort to keep track of you, though. If you run around a corner, and they don't follow with their next turn, then it doesn't make sense for them to magically keep appraisal of you. But... without magic, if they're staring at you and keeping you in sight... stealth doesn't make sense.
Unless they have some way to keep track of you.. like Scent.
:P Which also requires it -follow- him, or the cat's scent blowing towards Lan, rather than the other way around. :)
Hrm? No It really doesnt, Scent as the ability pretty much is, If it smells you it knows your there AND it can track you via the Scent not to mention the area (It can smell) is quite big.. It detects you regardless of your stealth in 30 ft. Or as little as 15 needing an action to note direction.
This is why Darkstalker is a feat. Negate Aroma a spell, yadda yadda
Actually, being on the wrong side of the wind makes it 15 feet, and the right side makes it 60. It can know you're there without being able to pinpoint you via scent as well. Pinpointing is its own action and has all of the penalties of blindfight if it can't see; it just knows what square you're in, if it's close enough. Scent only makes it know something is there; it does not prevent you from stabbing something in the spine just because it can smell you :P
It could totally follow Lan's trail, though, if it so desired, and once within 30 feet, could very probably find him, as he doesn't have hide in plain sight. Scent does -not- prevent you from catching a creature flatfooted, though, as it doesn't recognize where you are, only -that- you are.
You repeated what I said previously in your first paragraph.
And being Flat footed is something to do with combat period. you are Flat footed as long as you havent gone in int. Detecting you steal defeats stealth however, because you are not invisible.
Sorry, I played with a group that used 'denied dex modifier' and 'flatfooted' interchangeably.
Linking this so you can brush up a bit.
The basic gist is: It knows something is somewhere within 30 feet. This does not at all foil stealth. It still has to take the actions to trace it down if it is not visible to it. As a point of fact, I could be five feet away with a wall between us, and hit it from stealth denying it its dex modifier by simply standing over the wall and blasting it. It knows -something- is there. Not necessarily what that something is, or where it is, without using -multiple- move actions to do so.
I'm pretty sure Lan is describing how I play as well. However, my ruling may change if I learn I've been wrong about a rule. I'll deal with it when it comes up again.
Probably more importantly... what's up for the other guys who've gone MIA? You guys still out there? :)
Yeah I'm kinda disappointed about that. James is the one that got me motivated to start the game, and Luke is his buddy, and neither one of them have really been posting
Well, I just looked and apparently they both post several times a day in other games, so I really don't understand why they aren't posting at all here. They must not like the game
Honestly, it may well be the post rates. Are they the two on the other side of the pond? Because when I leave work and come home (I usually check before I leave work), I've generally got something like 8 posts in that 1-2 hour span of not checking. Plus the several throughout the day. There is very much such a thing as too many posts (in one of my other games, we had two people drop pretty quickly, and one of them said when I pm'd them that they just couldn't keep up; the other never got back to me.)
Or it could be the little spars over rules :p If that's the case, I can totally just start doing PMs with the DM if it's preferable. :)
I was in a game with both of them with at least double the posting rate of this game.
:P Then maybe it's just me. :P If you guys read this, lemme know if there's something about me that bothers you. :) I'm good at toning me down :)
Clearly its you Lan, nah I'm just kiddin.
Luke hasn't posted since November 12 and James not since November 14. I am concerned about what's going to happen when we start having encounters geared to six people but effectively have only four people.
We pray for crits?
Tank it like normal, retreat if we have to.
Praying for crits, like the roads, goes without saying.
Being homebrew, I kinda just write it as we go. Being as such, ecounters will always be scaled to the current group size.
Sorry my posting rates been a little slow guys. When I opened recruitment, I had been out of work for like a year, but then then almost immediately after we started I found a job lol. I still want to keep this a frequent post game though, but I may only be able to post once or twice a day sometimes. I was originally hoping for 3-5, but I think 1-2 is still a pretty decent pace.