Yes, though you don't notice it at all. You can go ahead and make the knowledge check now if you like. It doesn't really change anything if it's now or later. Just apply the knowledge to your character when he see's it.
Was referring to:
With the line saying 'insanely high numbers'.
And I don't know about you, but my local militia isn't going to run towards a tank to destroy it if it rolls into town. They're going to slow it and get out. Not even -try- to kill it, or the person manning it.
Either way: The creature can wreak havoc on the town without even coming near it pretty easily. And just destroying half the houses in town by hurling boulders over a hill... pretty well makes the town unlivable, crowded, and irrate.
It's just not a pretty picture.
Also, I prefer to put OOC over here, yeah. But responding to OOC text in the gameplay thread in the discussion thread just gets confusing for -everyone-. I've tried it before. :P
Your comparing a Giant to a Tank.. if you had that comparison it would be more accurate to have the local militia have grenades... alot of them. Because unlike a Tank a Giant isnt Nigh-invincible and actually will yield quite fast. Or I guess a Better comparison would be if your militia had a few RPGS.
Those same tactics you assume the Giant uses can be used in turn. Scout him out as he is throwing.. because he wouldnt be ale to see a direct target if he is trying to stay out of line of sight.. Send a Trebuchet or artillery round with tons of Alchemist fire.. bathe him in it.
Also no on has Knowledge nature, we know nothing about it save its a big wolf.
^ Pretty much that, yeah. And yeah, I was assuming he wouldn't stick around long enough to have artillery zero in on him. He's got a wide berth of where he can hit. 'oh, I didn't hit town hall? roll d8's and d10s to see what I -did- hit' sort of thing. :P but still. I'm just saying that people will run from a bad situation. In this world, probably -less so- because we have few places to run to.
That being said, yeah. We're pretty low on knowledges. I plan to kind of pick a few (nature is one of the -huge- ones I'm gonna get with Lan) but the other stuff took precedence.
Also, I prefer to put OOC over here, yeah. But responding to OOC text in the gameplay thread in the discussion thread just gets confusing for -everyone-. I've tried it before. :P
Quote it:)
:P I did. They kept talking in gameplay to respond :p
Lies.. Lies and Slander.
The problem the town would have is that the giant has a high enough attack bonus, coupled with easy enough targets to hit, that he can easily stand 500-600 feet away and demolish the town. He can take cover, which would hinder the towns attacks but not his. Of course, the townsfolk could do the same, but their buildings can't. A stock frost giant has nearly 200hp, and in Kyesa, a touch AC of 12. In this situation his touch AC would be 16 because of the cover, but your in a town with only a dozen rifleman, so some attacks would be against his regular AC. No matter the weapon though, everyone would take at least a -10 penalty due to range. It seems likely to me that the giant would do critical damage and then retreat. But this is all assuming it was indeed his intention, he's only a stock frost giant, and that he's alone.
Mwa ha... Mwa ha ha ha haaaa!
:P I did. They kept talking in gameplay to respond :p
I didn't see any such thing, and looking back, I still don't lol. Its all good though
I didn't say it was in -this- room. :) I'd be less up front and more 'eh, let it go' if it'd happened here :p
And speaking of battle tactics, what's the plan for dealing with our canine visitor?
We don't really have one :p that's the thing about being ambushed.
Yeah, it looks like it will get a surprise round on you guys. In fact, since Elisa can't succeed at her spot even on a 20, I'll probably go ahead and do that and roll initiative tonight when I get home.
Well then, this is going to get bloody.
Nah, just hit it till it dies.
Im more amazed something that big has a stealth score of +10 AFTER modifiers. considering Large size gives a -4
Its only a +10 in the snow
More than likely balancing out the minus it normally would get.. but still.. damn thats amazing.
Rank 1, 3 class skill, +2 dex, and +8 is a typical 'racial' mod for animal camouflage... I think.
+4 is racial for stealth, if it is in a certain environment it ranges from 4-8
Yeah, I'd meant the environmental camo. It's -very- rare for an animal to just get a flat bonus to stealth. Monsters that aren't animals, it's pretty common though, methinks.
Man, my dice have it out for Jin, lol.
Hit this guy hard guys, he's pretty dangerous.
Jin just got squashed before he could react, and he's our best fighter. That's not a good sign.
And by "squashed" I mean, unless I'm misreading something, that wolf's opening attack just hit Jin for more than Jin's entire hit points.
I could have sworn he had diehard. Yuck and ew.
You'd be wrong (Everyone but Lan) also, Im pretty sure I know what this is if it IS that, there is no reason it should even be here. Its to hit is too high and I assume even if he got rid of a certain ability it does quite alot already. Then again if it does I would have Rather had the Ice Giant.
The GM must have forgotten the Whole.. Party is 2 less people now and creature with one hit that will drop a person and energy damage on top of that agaist 4 people... Unless it has like... 30 HP. Will generally take them out.. especially with a +10 to hit. Ah well we will see. Jin has Two Elixirs of the minor variety Lan.
The three of us are not going to defeat something that can 1-shot Jin unless, for some reason, it is far more fragile than it should be.
Well It cant One shot Jin but yeah Something of Jin's General HP without Diehard. Unless the last three were like.. Well.. Actual casters... then they probably would be fine. A Witch, A Wizard, A Summoner, A Cleric..Druid.. Bard.. something with SoL ability.. OR like 3 Archers.
Either way I have to wait until the creature goes.. AGAIN before my turn..
I don't see how you survive a second hit, unless Lan really can force feed you potions at his initiative.
He rolled like.. Max damage almost
I would need to be hit twice that way.
I have Diehard I dont Die.. until I die.
Lan could 5ft step, Move action draw an Elixir off me, Standard put it in my mouth.
Even without it I would survive another hit.
I'd heal you if I could, but I can't heal anyone else until third level.
It's fine.
You can't use your action to feed someone else a potion like that unless they are unconscious. If they are awake, it would take cooperation and use the actions of both parties. But, jin hasn't hit it yet, so if someone gets its attention, its likely to switch targets
@Jin I don't know what you think this is, but the frost giant was far worse. This is a tough challenge, but there would have been no chance against the giant. Don't fret though, you guys can do it!
Hrmm I have actually played against them, they are less worse because they are nothing but damage and cant stealth us. If Jin were ranged instead we would have burned it down. Though the normal Wolf has an Aoe. That Aoe does an Avg 18 damage... We are level 1.. this is going along what we were debating earlier with the Giant.
Point is this creature is about the same strength and is something that is bad for this particular group. Now, I dont really care if it can kill the ENTIRE party. But I find it odd, you are having a harder time getting a potion into your mouth.. then if your Unconscious.
A better question is why it is easier to take a wand from someone and use it on the same person... than it is to feed them a potion using all of your turn? They arent consciously moving out of the way to avoid drinking it.
If you think you can easily hold a potion to someones lips and allow them to drink it while they dodge attacks and swing a sword, I'd have to disagree. The reason you can do it for an unconscious person is because they aren't taking other actions that make it difficult.
Mechanically, the rules state that its a standard action to drink a potion, which is what you would be doing. They also state that its a standard action to pour a potion down someone elses throat, which is what Lan would be doing. There for, you'd both be using standard actions to use a potion in such a goofy manor.
A wand, on the other hand, requires no action to receive the benefit from. They're just different items all together. Superior, but the user must be trained.
You must be reminded this is a game of abstraction, it is MUCH more silly to believe person cant STAND STILL for less than a second so that you could do so. Because MECHANICALLY there is no difference between someone being stunned and you doing this and their turn coming up and someone actvely awake and doing the same thing. Especially someone like Jin who even when not Flat footed is all armor. He doesnt do much movement.
If it Mechanically takes a standard to pour a potion.. thats all it takes.. it doesnt suddenly require a double standard to do WORSE than a person doing so to themeselves, otherwise that would be stated. Its only goofy if you imagine it goofy. Are you going to stop someone if they can Fire 4 arrows at full pull strength in 6 seconds because it exceeds the normal human ability? I would think not. So I see no reason of Adding an extra caveat to something that has an already defied action allowance.
A Wand does need an action to benefit from, that is where you are wrong. You need either to be able to cast the spell OR have a High enough UMD... which then bestows the effect on whoever you choose. Feeding some a Potion take a move action to pull and the standard to feed them.. thats it.
Hrmm I forgot Jin had the Assualt Mode.. I mean that Could help but right now he is staggered. It would do 5 more damage... and give a +1 to hit.. but AC would drop by one.. which in this case doesnt matter much. Ah well.. And 42 HP is still alot of HP because there is no guarantee at this level we will hit it a bunch of times.
As far as previous experience, this creature is much like the comparison I made to Wights as level 1 fights. Sure, you could technically fight them with a party but on avg 2 people will die easily. Because it has a (you just die ability) for level 1 chars. In a Linnorm Version of Kingmaker, two of these killed a 2 3rd level characters in the first round before they got to act. Because of that Aoe.. and the Gm didnt roll high.
My bad, the rules actually state that it's a full round action to feed a potion to an unconscious character. Either way, that wouldn't make things better for you. And it neither states nor implies anywhere that someone else pouring the potion hands the action costs off to him. I have no idea where your getting any of that from.
It doesn't mechanically take a standard action to pour a potion, it takes a standard action to drink one, which you can pour as part of. I was just ruling that if the pourer is not the drinker that it would take an extra action because of the cooperation required. If I pour something, and you drink something, we both spent time doing those things. Me holding it up to your mouth instead of a bucket doesn't magically make it take less time than the sum of those two actions. It still takes me the same amount of time to pour, and you the same amount of time to drink.
You've overlooked what I was saying about the wand. It is not where I'm wrong, you just misunderstood what I was saying. But, I'm not interested in debating this any longer. I've opened another thread here so that you can get opinions on the matter other than mine.
Also, all 3 of my home groups are constantly killing things well beyond our party level. less than a month ago our party of 4 level 2's killed a CR 5 MR 1, with no casualties. My apologies if the wolfs too difficult, I am perhaps use to different players. I figured someone may drop, but no one would die.
Being level 2 and Being level 1 are Different things, HAVING MAGIC and not are different things.. A creatures abilities or Damage can make a big difference in games.. You can kill MANY creatures beyond you CR but GENERALLY they are not outside your Specialization. I guarantee Two of these creatures can kill your party with little effort if they came in similar to this. THIS creature can KILL multiple level 1 characters with a Standard action.
I myself can easily make a character that could do the same but it also depends on WHAT IT IS and What the campaign is based around. Here's a Hint.. Probably would be a Caster or Pet Class or Ranged. Possibly Barbarian if I felt like it.
What was the party that killed this Supposed Creature.. And what was the creature?
Yeah, and fighting mythic and fighting non mythic are also different things. This wolf isn't mythic. And this creatures breath weapon only does 18 damage on average, with a save for half. plus, it's only a 15 ft cone. I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop one of you, but even that's only if you give it a chance to use it.
The mythic monster we fought was custom built, which is always harder for us. The custom stuff we fight uses the creation rules appropriately but always seems to be harder than other monsters of the same CR.
Not to the degree 1st is to second.. The creature when given mythic tends to just be a slightly harder version of its first incarnation but well within defeatable.
The Winter Wolfs 15 ft cone will be used AT least when there are two people and at level 1 18 damage is a Raging Barbarian's Raging con focus Toughness HP, the Dc ALSO isnt low and some classes dont even get evasion until second level. SO what we have is you making it and someone like Zara being Staggered at least, if you FAIL it your down 18 and bleeding out.. and that could be 3 people easily. It can do this every 1d4 rounds. And then its to hit is +10 for an Avg of 15. Thats avg.. any higher = Dead character.. the ONLY reason Jin isnt out is because I built him specifically to last.
The disparity here is much different than what your group is using, Which is why I have to ask WHAT your party was when they fought said creature.
Meditate.. on magical beast?
EDIT: Ah right, Cryptic thingy..
Actually, when I looked it up, I realized my mistake of it being a full-round action. As it didn't seem to matter any longer, I didn't bring it up and slept instead. Looks like it would have helped. I mistakenly thought getting someone else to drink was equally difficult to drinking. Now I see why people say Chirurgeons getting breath of life is stupid.
Winter wolf averages 21 damage, if it's 6d6, as the statblock. Which means successful reflex save -still- requires Lan to spend power points to not be unconscious... on average. But that's across the whole party. Lan is a high reflex character and -might- make the DC. Might. If he doesn't, we'd better hope for a role -far- below average. Heck, even if he does. He's going to wipe the board, effectively, but at least Zara may survive, as the thing officially has plenty of food. :P
I'm not saying we're going to die. I'm just saying that if I'd known I'd be fighting CR+4 consistently, of the bullette variety (Someone is now a smear of blood on the ground), I'd probably have optimized very differently (or, at all, beyond having a solid stealth that can't come into play as often as I'd like until fast stealth talent). As it stands, being able to do a maximum of like 9 damage isn't going to help chew through the thing's massive amount of hp, and it's just going to breathe while Lan's 'finding his center' anyway. :(
Edit: And yeah, Jin. My options are half damage for every round I don't change, or full damage every round after I do. So round 2 is equal in damage, with every round after being better. I'm guessing ~5-6 damage isn't going to matter this turn, and if Lan doesn't survive to next turn, that won't matter much, either way.
I lowballed the number to make it seem less bad but 21 was the actual avg.
On the bright side, down the line, I'll get a 'if you identify a creature with a swift action, you can use that for your pattern ability on that creature only.' So less 'change everytime you target something else.'