The Godsrain Prophecies Part Four

Woo! Hard to kill what's already dead. The hint that Arazni might be the one to do the slaying is lending credence to my theory that it'll be Iomedae.

Huzzah!! My favourite deity is safe! Now I can watch the rest of these with amusement.

Of course killing her isn't killing her. <3

Not that anyone asked, but I just wanted you all to know that the only TRUE god is still quite safe. I'll just be over here... having fun, without all of you.

Interesting

Huh. Is this now not just a curiosity but a prequel? Since Yivali is speaking of watching Aranzi closer, and Yivali is hanging out with Arazni on the cover of Divine Mysteries.

Huh. That kind of scuppers the notion that an evil divinity dying was off the table because it wouldn't be disruptive to the world. I think this one might actually have expanded the pool of candidates in my mind.

Urgathoa's death launches the Undead Apocalypse? That's poetic, as is her being the first dead god to get a posthumous last laugh.

We've been discussing fears in regards to these prophecies. Here, I think we see the fears of the god's enemies rather than the god herself. Pharasma could have destroyed Urgathoa early on had she chosen. The possibility raised here is a powerful reason for staying her hand.

Also, I love the bit about the undead eating and drinking so quickly they can barely taste anything. That's also poetic. As always, thank you Erin! This is great.

hmm its an Intresting Idea that the Princess is actually keeping her purview in check rather then the cause

Oh well, Urgathoa was my first guess, and here I was feeling all smug last week about Asmodeus (many people arguing online where guessing Asmodeus because it's a deity in 3.5e, and I was arguing that the big A is not subject to copyright).

Arazni becoming a god is very recent, when were these prophecies supposedly written?

Woo! Hard to kill what's already dead. The hint that Arazni might be the one to do the slaying is lending credence to my theory that it'll be Iomedae.

Killing off Iomedae would be a sop to the people who think the setting is getting too safe, that's for sure.

Arazni becoming a god is very recent, when were these prophecies supposedly written?

That's the thing about prophecy... ;)

Interesting notion, seems like if Urgathoa loses, everyone does.

YlothofMerab wrote:

Arazni becoming a god is very recent, when were these prophecies supposedly written?

That's the thing about prophecy... ;)

Indeed. These didn't necessarily make any more sense to the writer at the time, any more than, "Do Notte Buye Betamacks" made to a 17th century prophet in Good Omens

Okay this is probably one of the most unbelievable pieces of fiction I've ever read.

Disappointed that Urgathoa is staying around. Although I wanted her gone, there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell she would ever be on the chopping block. If there ever was a vote on a place to get rid of, Geb would only get one vote, and that would be from me.

I'm not going to believe the primary Deity that wants Undeath to basically take over the whole of Golarion is someone stopping it from happening. Urgathoa being destroyed causes Undeath to act without anyone causing it? Armies of Undead rising from crypts and battlefields?

This prophecy is false because it makes no damned sense. Why would Urgathoa's destruction force even more Undead to exist?

Interesting notion, seems like if Urgathoa loses, everyone does.

Which makes no sense. Why would she be a stopper in something she wants?

I wonder if the disease of undeath spreads to deities too. Like in some Marvel Zombies' Asgard.

This might be what marks this one as not the death that will happen.

If these tales are based on fear, I feel this one is Arazni's fear rather than that of Urgathoa. Fear of losing even in victory, of achieving nothing and in fact ruining what she tries to do.

This one...makes like no sense. How does Urgathoa's death impact Pharasma's ability to take in the souls of the deceased properly. Like, this outcome feels more like what happens when Pharasma dies than anything. But instead Urgathoa dying makes Undead *more* prevalent and somehow neither magic or the servants of the boneyard are apparently able to do anything about it? This feels like the first L of this series which is a damn shame because I've been loving them.

...also its gonna be Iomedae isnt it. Dammit.

I'm not going to believe the primary Deity that wants Undeath to basically take over the whole of Golarion is someone stopping it from happening. Urgathoa being destroyed causes Undeath to act without anyone causing it? Armies of Undead rising from crypts and battlefields?

This prophecy is false because it makes no damned sense. Why would Urgathoa's destruction force even more Undead to exist?

Seriously. Its baffling

Ridge wrote:

Interesting notion, seems like if Urgathoa loses, everyone does.

Which makes no sense. Why would she be a stopper in something she wants?

We are our own worst enemy.

Hmm this one doesn't seem like its about Urgathoa's fears (or even Arazni's) so that debunks that as universal trait among stories.

My least favorite one so far, but then again I never liked the "there must always be a Lich King" trope.

On the plus side, I now have no clue who is dying because my vote was 100% on Urgathoa.

This one...makes like no sense.

I mean, note that ALL stories so far contain an element that breaks setting

You can consider it sort of red flag about "this seems extremely unlikely".

This one...makes like no sense. How does Urgathoa's death impact Pharasma's ability to take in the souls of the deceased properly. Like, this outcome feels more like what happens when Pharasma dies than anything. But instead Urgathoa dying makes Undead *more* prevalent and somehow neither magic or the servants of the boneyard are apparently able to do anything about it? This feels like the first L of this series which is a damn shame because I've been loving them.

...also its gonna be Iomedae isnt it. Dammit.

At this point it makes the most sense, unfortunately. Lots of people complaining the setting's gotten too safe, so what better way to make it edgier again than by giving the biggest non-deity big bads the thing they want most by taking away the powers that are holding them in check?

Woo! Hard to kill what's already dead. The hint that Arazni might be the one to do the slaying is lending credence to my theory that it'll be Iomedae.

Wait, why would Arazni slay Iomedae? Did I miss something? I believe the only thing we've been told about them (unfortunately, because I'd like to hear more) in so far is that Arazni has complex and ambivalent feelings about her old Paladin: That she resented her for reaching divinity easily, and that she was proud of her for her victory over the Shining Crusade.

olimar92 wrote:

I'm not going to believe the primary Deity that wants Undeath to basically take over the whole of Golarion is someone stopping it from happening. Urgathoa being destroyed causes Undeath to act without anyone causing it? Armies of Undead rising from crypts and battlefields?

This prophecy is false because it makes no damned sense. Why would Urgathoa's destruction force even more Undead to exist?

Seriously. Its baffling

Sometimes the leader of a cartel insures that all illicit trade goes through them, providing a degree of stability, even for something that is a net negative to the world.

...also its gonna be Iomedae isnt it. Dammit.

Hmm, maybe there is credence to the rumor that Iomedae is a Veiled Master Sleeper agent. *Adjusts tinfoil*

if theyre not burnin down my moms house then that means my basement is safe so i'm gonna make it!!! yeah yeah i knew it thx big urga

Ridge wrote:

Interesting notion, seems like if Urgathoa loses, everyone does.

Which makes no sense. Why would she be a stopper in something she wants?

Think of it like the difference between steady radioactive decay and a fission bomb going off: all that nasty void energy gets released at once.

Also, you can't just make the whole universe undead; they need something to eat and replenish their numbers. Everyone being undead at once would be a hell of a party at first, but a slow, boring fall into nothingness for uncountable eons after that. The goddess of partying hard would not approve.

Am I over reading this... but in this scenario do people not realize Urgathoa is dead?

Others search for patterns, narrow in on who or what is to blame, let something they don’t understand consume their baser instincts, and rain fire down on those they think have brought this new world forth.

I think it's meant to be they're trying to discover who killed Urgathoa, assuming that's what is causing this. But, it's vague. Are people too busy trying to survive the undead, they may not even realize she's gone?

I've seen a few folks saying this one doesn't make sense, but honestly it doesn't feel too far-fetched to me? Like. The whole premise of the Exemplar class is the divine power of the dead god very much still being A Thing if I understand it right. So Urgathoa's death causing Undeath to go out of control feels like an extension of the same idea to me.

Yeah, this one doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Why would the deity that invented Undeath, whose edicts include "become undead" and "create undead" end up actively preventing "everything everywhere is undead" by continuing to exist?

Like if Urgathoa knew that she would create some kind of zombie apocalypse by dying, she'd be trying to figure out if something less than dying would trigger it.

I've seen a few folks saying this one doesn't make sense, but honestly it doesn't feel too far-fetched to me? Like. The whole premise of the Exemplar class is the divine power of the dead god very much still being A Thing if I understand it right. So Urgathoa's death causing Undeath to go out of control feels like an extension of the same idea to me.

I kinda get that interpretation. Its just that none of the other prophesies have displayed its after-effects of the death in a way that sort of aligns with that dieties power being spread among the world in a similar way. Of Course Cayden and AzzyD seemed for like, close up rather than world scale like Urgathoa and Pharasmas were. For Pharasma it felt like no one was inheriting her spark as it were, but shes also a bit literally core to the setting so her death might break a bit too much

Ridge wrote:

Interesting notion, seems like if Urgathoa loses, everyone does.

Which makes no sense. Why would she be a stopper in something she wants?

Well, that's why I said seems but I see your point.

It could indeed be completely false that that IS the way it would happened if Urgathoa was destroyed. I can sympathize because I'm looking at these as theological speculation rather than concrete "This WOULD happen if so and So died" in my case, because I don't like the idea of Cayden getting all his power out of a flask, for instance. Others are cool with it.

It's entertaining to me regardless and is forcing me to think more of how things sit with my own campaign's take on each god.

Far as I know, the only one that will be set in stone is going to be the final announcement of which of the core 20 dies.

This is by far my favourite prophecy so far but I am a huge fan of Urgathoa, undeath, and Geb in the setting. To me, Urgathoa's death triggering something like a mass zombie apocalypse isn't too far from Asmodeus's wound or Cayden's false divinity.

Urgathoa afterall was the first creature to spontaneously, with force of will, come back from the dead. Her death relinquishing that ability from her domain and into every death seems very poetic. An infection, if you will, spreading from her corpse onto the notion of death itself.

Wonderful story.

Yeah, this one doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Why would the deity that invented Undeath, whose edicts include "become undead" and "create undead" end up actively preventing "everything everywhere is undead" by continuing to exist?

Like if Urgathoa knew that she would create some kind of zombie apocalypse by dying, she'd be trying to figure out if something less than dying would trigger it.

She enjoys undeath far too much to ever risk it coming to an end.

The death of the first undead corrupting all dead seems quite logical.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Yeah, this one doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Why would the deity that invented Undeath, whose edicts include "become undead" and "create undead" end up actively preventing "everything everywhere is undead" by continuing to exist?

Like if Urgathoa knew that she would create some kind of zombie apocalypse by dying, she'd be trying to figure out if something less than dying would trigger it.

She enjoys undeath far too much to ever risk it coming to an end.

So an undead-man switch.

She enjoys undeath far too much to ever risk it coming to an end.

That's what I meant by the last part. If Urgathoa were aware that her death would corrupt every soul that dies, her biggest project would be to figure out if something short of dying permanently would have the same effect. If nothing else, she'd be much more aggressive because she knows that the other deities can't afford to kill her.

This has to be something Urgathoa is completely unaware of.

Yeah, this one doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Why would the deity that invented Undeath, whose edicts include "become undead" and "create undead" end up actively preventing "everything everywhere is undead" by continuing to exist?

Like if Urgathoa knew that she would create some kind of zombie apocalypse by dying, she'd be trying to figure out if something less than dying would trigger it.

1) Presuming she knows this, if it's even true, is a big assumption. Why would she have access to an obscure, perhaps unique, prophecy held by her most hated enemy?

2) Urgathoa is very much defined by her selfishness. Why on Golarion would she even consider such a sacrifice?

...also its gonna be Iomedae isnt it. Dammit.

I really hope not, that feels far too on the noise.

This has to be something Urgathoa is completely unaware of.

Or there is no way to do it without permanently dying herself. Which is what she became undead to avoid.

Am I over reading this... but in this scenario do people not realize Urgathoa is dead?

Prophecy wrote:

Others search for patterns, narrow in on who or what is to blame, let something they don’t understand consume their baser instincts, and rain fire down on those they think have brought this new world forth.

I think it's meant to be they're trying to discover who killed Urgathoa, assuming that's what is causing this. But, it's vague. Are people too busy trying to survive the undead, they may not even realize she's gone?

Sounds like the true reason for the explosion of undeath is not widely known, at least among mortals.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

This has to be something Urgathoa is completely unaware of.

Or there is no way to do it without permanently dying herself. Which is what she became undead to avoid.

Yes. I can perfectly see her edict being "Create as many undead as you can as long as it does not involve destroying me."

Like if Urgathoa knew that she would create some kind of zombie apocalypse by dying, she'd be trying to figure out if something less than dying would trigger it.

Let's hope she doesn't read this blog, then!

Well, if the idea is "Urgathoa dying means all her undeath reaches all the corpses of Golarion," then the concept of "Killing goddess of undeath = unstoppable undead tide forms" makes sense. For those saying that she should just end herself and let this come to pass, it is entirely possible that either A. She cannot kill herself by her own means, and baiting someone who can into doing so is probably not a wise decision, B. She still has instinctual self-preservation (which is why she won't just kill herself), meaning she won't kill herself for her own subjects, or C. Killing herself will release Rovagug, which would end up destroying everything on Golarion anyway, including the undead she loves, making it a pointless "sacrifice" for undead to take control of the world.

iirc, Urgathoa was the very first undead in the lore. The first to blasphemy against the natural cycle of life and death. As the first undead and undead god at that, a bunch of undead and diseases were also created following her ascension.

If this is true, then Urgathoa may be intrinsically tied to the underlying mechanics of undeath itself. Her dying could indeed change the rules of undeath. Without her effectively dictating what the very rules of undeath are through her very existence, some chaos is to be expected. This wouldn't necessarily undo undeath itself though so much as change it.

What I find more interesting about this prophecy is that it actually doesn't focus on Urgathoa at all. It's almost entirely about Arazni.

Between Yivali's comments on the weirdness of this prophecy focusing on Arazni and the meta knowledge of Arazni joining the core pantheon, I think it may be that Arazni is more powerful than even Arazni herself realizes.

There are fragments of truth in these prophecies I think. Arazni may be gifted as a potential god-slayer. Interesting if true, and the implications of such a gift in the future of the events to come make Arazni a god to keep a very close eye on.

Simeon wrote:

Woo! Hard to kill what's already dead. The hint that Arazni might be the one to do the slaying is lending credence to my theory that it'll be Iomedae.

Wait, why would Arazni slay Iomedae? Did I miss something? I believe the only thing we've been told about them (unfortunately, because I'd like to hear more) in so far is that Arazni has complex and ambivalent feelings about her old Paladin: That she resented her for reaching divinity easily, and that she was proud of her for her victory over the Shining Crusade.

So there's one important detail about her relationship to Iomedae that isn't explicitly stated when sources describe Arazni's relationships with other gods. The Knights of Ozem, led by Iomedae at the time, summoned Arazni to help fight against the Whispering Tyrant. Despite Arazni being willing and eager to fight, the Knights bound Arazni to their will. With Iomedae as the leader of the knights, who else would've held the reins of power or given the order the bind Arazni? Because of that binding, she was unable to retreat when the Whispering Tyrant gained the upper ground, and she died because of it.

Essentially, Iomedae willfully allowed Arazni to be murdered and kicked off the whole series of events that led to her becoming a lich. Arazni commands her followers to "despise and never forgive those who hurt you" and if I was in her shoes, I would see Iomedae as a person who hurt me.

E Rank Luck wrote:

This one...makes like no sense.

I mean, note that ALL stories so far contain an element that breaks setting

You can consider it sort of red flag about "this seems extremely unlikely".

Plot twist: the author of these prophecies isn't being deceitful on purpose, they just took the Dubious Knowledge feat and they failed 19 of their 20 rolls.