A Game of Kingmaker

Game Master Wandering Wastrel

@Aivar - agreed, Brevoy is hard to place in terms of RL geography/geopolitics.

@Tristan - probably a reasonable assumption, although nearly everyone will speak Common/Taldan to some degree or other.

Pet peeve: languages should be a LOT harder to acquire. ("Oh, look, I put another point in Linguistics, guess I speak Vegepygmy now..." Grr.)

I agree. In my own game (and gameworld) I approach it from a couple angles. I might have gone a bit overboard though.

First, languages have levels. 1 point in a language means you can speak it, but with a heavy accent and limited vocabulary. 2 points makes you proficient enough to only have a trace accent and are essentially fluent. Then another point is required in order to learn to read/write in that language.

Secondly, there is no such thing as "common", so there are a much larger number of languages which are applicable to the normal game world (even before they worry about consorting with Demons and other extraplanar beings).

I balance out the increased skill point need by letting players study languages in their downtime and not need to use skill points to learn them.

It's a rough redesign, but it mostly does the trick.

That's nice, I like the level of detail! Especially the distinction between 'speaks a bit' and 'fluent'

The 'fix' I've used previously is to allow bonus languages for high Int as normal, but Linguistics is purely for deciphering written script - it doesn't give you extra languages. If you want those, well, that's what the Cosmopolitan feat is for.

That reminder about the caste system in the River Kingdoms makes me realize that my first thought for how to attract people to our settlement doesn't really work. Of course I don't know if we even have to do anything to attract settlers or if it's just assumed under the system. At any rate, I suspect homesteading is just too modern of a concept. My research suggests Locke was the first to suggest it, and that wasn't until 1690, and the first time it was ever really put into practice wasn't until the 19th century.

level 4 highlights: another level of investigator, putting my 4HD stat increase into Int. Putting skill ranks into Diplomacy, Dungeoneering, Local, Perception, Sense Motive (3), Heal, UMD (2), Intimidate (2), and two bg skill ranks into Craft (Alchemy). That's including the retroactive skill ranks from my int modifier increasing, in addition to other modifications to int-based skills.

Class abilities: Keen Recollection (like bardic knowledge, I have literally one untrained knowledge skill), Trap Sense +1, and my first Investigator Talent, I'm taking Expanded Inspiration because it's one of like two that I qualify for. I can now roll Inspiration without expending it on all trained Knowledge, Linguistics, Spellcraft, Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Profession, and Sense Motive checks.

I agree. In my own game (and gameworld) I approach it from a couple angles. I might have gone a bit overboard though.

First, languages have levels. 1 point in a language means you can speak it, but with a heavy accent and limited vocabulary. 2 points makes you proficient enough to only have a trace accent and are essentially fluent. Then another point is required in order to learn to read/write in that language.

Secondly, there is no such thing as "common", so there are a much larger number of languages which are applicable to the normal game world (even before they worry about consorting with Demons and other extraplanar beings).

It's a rough redesign, but it mostly does the trick.

Yeah, the language rules as written are a little broken. Nariel presently speaks eleven languages...

Yours is a good system, it's neat and explains varying degrees of proficiency and still makes linguistics a useful skill. I assume that if one is literate though, you would start with rank 3 in your first language?

I've also never been a fan of the idea of a "common" language. Whenever I have run a Golarion game of example, I've done away with common like you have, and called it Taldan instead.

@Arianna - population is fairly abstracted in this system; it's run on the 'if you build it, they will come' principle so it's not something you need to worry about specifically. With that said, I am planning to include some stuff on population but that's getting slightly ahead of where we currently are.

I'll update Aivar later today or tomorrow. Other than a couple of skill points, I have no choices to make - I just get some new stuff and that's it :)

@Ari - I figure that we first want to set up some profitable ventures (the goldmine comes to mind!) and then use those commercial hubs to organically grow a village or town. As for attracting people, we can start by setting up some tenant farming schemes. That way, we can promise low to no costs for using our land in the first couple of years while they set up shop, and assure we attract people with *some* means and skill.

If we create opportunity and then promote those opportunities the right way, things ought to grow organically ... I hope :'D

But I'm sure we all have different opinions on how to do this and I'm looking forward (hue!) to reading those opinions.

There is a 'promotion' mechanic in the kingdom-building rules to do just what Aivar is suggesting in terms of attracting people, so all of this works nicely within the rules as written.

Also, I only just realised that I've now passed 1,000 posts with this GM avatar, which is hopefully a sign that I've arrived :-)

So, do you want me to move things along? Or is there further RP still to do?

Back now. Won't have time to write a good post till tomorrow though. You can move things along in the meantime if you'd like and I'll backpost when I can.

Welcome back! And yes, I'm fine with moving on. Aivar won't challenge Merrim wanting to come along - I'm sure Raquel won't mind! ;)

Settling on new spells for bards/sorcerers is always so damn difficult. Think I've got it now, though. Gonna have to remember to pick up some scrolls when we get around to shopping.

Here's the big ol' what we can sell list. Claim it now or know it will be sold!

To quote a much-beloved mustached plumber, 'ere we go:
-MW cold iron longsword (175gp)(list says 350, but the book says it is worth 330!)
-Scalemail (25gp)
-MW club (151gp)
-Ring of Protection +1 (1000gp)(Aivar gets a Deflection bonus when he smites evil, so please, someone, claim it or I will and it will be horribly inefficient!)
-MW battleaxe (155gp)
-MW comp longbow +2 (300)(book says it is worth 600, list 220)
Value: 1831 gold

Assorted 'junk' loot:
-chain shirt, short swords, daggers, shortbows, silver earrings, music box, crate of furs, throwing axes, silver ring, pewter mug, jade carving.
Value: 709 gold (half price for weapons/armor, listed price for valuables)

Notes on junk loot:
-Jade carving might have a purpose (strikes me as something an elf would appreciate as a gift)

ON TOP OF THAT!!!! There is also 17102 gold and 911 silver in the party stash. Quik mafs > 2865 gold and 5 silver each. Assuming we sell everything but the magical +1 ring, that number rises to 3122 gold 1 silver and 7 coppers each. We can take into account already claimed items and try to bring everyone to roughly the same 'total loot value', but that would require some mo' mafs.

Update on said quick maths: adding our current loot value to the gold we have yet to share brings everyone's average total up to 6647 gold and 6 silver. Tristan, Sasha, and Raquel would be hitting a significant windfall if we do decide to take the red route and make sure everyone is roughly on the same level of wealth.

6647.6:
-Tristan: +4247
-Sasha: +4327
-Raquel: +4297
-Nariel: +1140
-Arianna: +2999
-Aivar: +718

To be fair, and this is just my opinion on the matter, Nariel's net worth is pumped up by the level 2 pearl of power. Both Nariel and Aivar have claimed a couple of valuable consumables that further inflate their numbers. It is especially Nariel who suffers from having a single item that, while powerful, skews her net worth.

Anyways, feel free to share what you think. I'm fine with giving up a sizeable part of 'my share' to ensure the average group wealth is a little less skewed.

Show me the money.

Do we want to set aside a further 'share' that is explicitly for party-wide purchases, when necessary?

Arianna or Sasha should take the ring of protection.

Raquel is still wearing the silver earrings! She doesn't want to give those up.

Other than that, she's fine with selling the rest of the loot. Gonna save up for a headband of wisdom.

Oh, and level up!

+9 HP
+1 Fort, +1 Will
+1 BA
+1 Cha
+1 1st and 2nd level spell
+5 skill points

Not that exciting. :)

If it's cool with everybody, Sasha will take the ring. Her AC is one lower than Arianna's normally and in a pinch, Arianna can drink her extract of shield.

I leveled up last night as well. Following Raquel's format:

+9 HP
+1 Ref
+1 BAB
+1 Dex
+14 skill ranks

Added two new rogue abilities: Debilitating Injury from Unchained Rogue and Combat Advisor from the Consigliere archetype.

Looks good, Sasha! Combat Advisor is a nice talent to have :)

I've updated the campaign header, which was getting a bit full. All spreadsheet stuff (loot list, calendar, NPC listing) is now in the "ADMIN" link.

You can't click on the "RULERSHIP" link yet, and that's intentional. All in good time :D

Go for it, Sasha. I did forget that if you take the ring, the red mafs won't check out no mo' as your total soars up by 2000, but I guess everyone prefers simply splitting what cash we have :)

Without the silver earrings and the +1 ring, the total split per person becomes 3097 gold pieces.

A recap:
-Official ceremony later today.
-Several hundred people and tons of material being rounded up.
-Swordlords QQ that we had to save their butts.
-Need to fill in our leadership roster ASAP.
-Apparent opposition comes from a House that plays a part in Arianna's life.

To do list:
-Find people for the marshall, enforcer, and treasurer or spymaster positions.
-Decide on where to build our first settlement on the map. Being an optimist, I think we might also want to consider the next step or two in case things go well and we need to expand.
-I say we invest in a (living) wagon, a horse or two to pull it, books on the laws and customs of Brevoy, books on nobility lineages, some books on local history, and a bunch of empty books so we can start keeping records of ... stuff. The wagon can be used to store all of this, for now.
-Investigate ze pouches and see if it perhaps has any ties to the opposing House, see above.
-Prep for tonight's ceremony.

Doing some initial exploratory work into where good farmland is might help us guide our initial settlement location. Early settlers are likely to be farmers (unless we want to open up that gold mine fast).

The above comes from the player, not Tristan. If Tristan is going to end up as the Diplomat, he'll definitely be focused on urban development. However, even a modicum of research would show him that cities grow up around either production (food or otherwise) or trade.

A hex with a river in it would also be a good place for a settlement to facilitate trade.

The fork where the Thorn and Shrike meet seems likely. Even has a crossing over the Thorn nearby. Maybe a bit close to the Kobold caves for comfort, though? Depends on how Aivar wants to go about handling relations with those ornery little guys.

I figure we can try to be nice to them, but I am afraid they'll eventually stop being nice to us as we start claiming lands towards their caves. Perhaps we can invest in a mission to civilize :')

I like the idea of settling near a river, but the Shrike isn't any good at facilitating trade. Remember, the Shrike has a couple of falls midway.

My suggestion is that we go for the tile south of the bandit camp, so we're right next to fresh water, a source of wood, and the goldmine. It does place us somewhat close to the kobolds. Barring that, we can disturb Bokken's rest and claim the Hermit's Rest tile. I think that the mossy minty green tiles are flat land and the olive green ones are hills? Not sure how it affects things, but going by Tristan's logic, we'd want flat fertile lands and access to fresh water and a nearby source of timber.

And yes, I think the sooner we start a *personal* venture with the help of the dwarves to set up a goldmine, the better. Having the settlement nearby might help us give some purpose to the indentureds who are going to be send our way.

@Wastrel: have you seen this Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracker spreadsheet? This may or may not be useful.

@Aivar - thanks, will definitely take a look!

Inuviel can - if asked - provide you with all the books you listed ("let there be a generous stipend") EXCEPT for a map. The only accurate map of the Greenbelt is in your - or more likely, Arianna's - possession.

literally Arianna right now

Sorry for the radio silence, been tied up with various activities that kept me out late the last few nights. Needless to say, I have some catching up to do.

Seriously, Aivar, thank you: I needed to set that up in advance of the next encounter and was wondering how to do it.

Also, PLEASE just buy/sell stuff, there's no need to RP it out. This thing will bog down completely if we go into that level of detail ;)

"Hm, do you have this cloak of resistance in another color perhaps?"

Assembling a shopping list as we speak.

Raquel will buy a headband of Wisdom +2

Tristan/Aivar/Raquel - you are allowed thinking time. Don't feel you have to make a snap decision here and now :)

Aivar wants to buy a living wagon (like a Roma vardo wagon) and have it serve as a mobile paperwork station. A heavy wagon costs 100 gold, so say 300 gold for a liveable luxurious version? And then some 200 gold for furniture for a total of 500 gold? I suppose it needs two horses to operate, say two light horses a 150 gold.

I did some googling and searching around the forums, but the wagons on the pfsrd are the best I found.

Also:
-Noble outfit (75gp)
-Boyar hat (50gp - big black fur monstrosity)
-Jewelry (200gp - golden ring with the Orlovsky motto, golden shoulder clasp decorated with a black eagle, a plain golden necklace consisting of chains - once we get a design for the Dornmark coat of arms, he'll try to score an amulet with that which can be attached to said necklace)

That would come down to a total of 975 gp.

So, I would like to see my family. Not send a letter, but to ride north, on my own if need be, and as I said, pay my respects, see my family, try to convince Sig to come south, return the stolen books to Dame Lebeda and personally apologize for taking them, and see the twins.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...

Don't need to RP it out, but for in-character reasons I'd still like it to happen.

Ooo, shopping list. I could use a headband of Intelligence +2, but I'm sure there are other things.

On other news, I'll be taking a short respite up north for a few days, likely won't have access to post until Sunday. That said I may get a chance on Saturday afternoon, but it depends. I'm sorry to miss some of this wonderful RP, as I'm sure I'll return to 20+ posts, but then again I could really use some vacation time XD

@Arianna - you certainly have time for that! I will include it as an RP bit in due course :)

@Nariel - have fun!

I think that the mossy minty green tiles are flat land and the olive green ones are hills?

Missed this earlier, but yes, that is correct.

@Narièl - we'll do our best to make sure nothing burns down in the meantime. That includes the loot spreadsheet xD I do not dare touch it, you see.

So I sat down with the Ultimate Campaign book last night and after reading through the basics (again), I took another look at the map this morning and formulated this plan of how to get things started:

Dornmark - Neutral Good (+ 2 loyalty & stability) - hex D8
-The Settlement (Narlsig? Dorn? Torn? Shrikeburg? Help! Dornfall?!)
Cost: 2 BP (base 1, plains 1). Surrounded by hills and plains, has access to water, and is close to gold and wood.
Starting buildings: Inn & Tenement. Cost: 11 BP (10 Inn, 1 Tenement). +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty, Society +1, and +2 Unrest. Base value +500gp. Can upgrade 'tenement' to 'house' later on for 2 BP.

Farm - hex C9
Cost: 3 BP. Farm is 2, claiming hex is 1. Benefit: reduces consumption by -2.

Total BP cost: 16. Total size: 2. Consumption 0.

Technically, I am unsure whether we can also claim the adjacent hex and start out with a farm there, but I am sure Wastrel will tell me what's what =P

Barring horrible upkeep & income phase rolls, this would make Dornmark self-sustainable and offer us a platform from which to expand. We're rocking a whoopin' 19 BP at the moment, so we even get to keep 3 BP in reserve for future turns! However, it seems that we might be able to score some more starting BP, but I do think that taking things 'slow' and making sure we get the basics sorted is priority number one.

From here on, we can start thinking about building some roads across the plains to connect our settlement and farm to Fort Serenko and Oleg's Outpost. We can then dip into the gold mine at D10 and the forest at C11 to secure more resources, diversify the jobs available, and pull in more economic bonuses. I'm afraid that securing the gold mine won't be as easy as 'just' spending some BP, though, hence me not including it in 'my' opening moves, which, of course, is just my suggestion! Anyway, the mine itself would cost 6 BP, the road in the hills would cost 3 BP. The sawmill would cost 3 BP, the road in the forest would cost 2 BP. Claiming a tile also costs 1 BP.

As the mine is on a special tile, it grants an additional +1 economy when claimed and it doubles the mine's output (+2 eco and +2 BP when collecting taxes!), so I do suggest we push for that once the settlement is up and running. Do note that we need to claim C10 before we can claim the forest and gold mine tiles!

Having our starting settlement next to the beauty of the Shrike falls should makes for an idyllic picturesque village. Bonus points for the fact we can adopt Die Wacht Am Shrike as our national anthem when the time comes.

edit - getting another farm up and running in C10 means we get another -2 consumption. We can use that to push down the costs of edicts. With two farms and normal taxation, we can run standard promotions and 6 holidays a year while keeping our consumption at zero! We'd gain +2 to Economy & Stability from this.

Aivar - good work but we're not there yet :)

Let's revisit this further down the line to avoid getting bogged down

Definitely. I'm just trying to keep track of things because the kingdom building rules are ever eager to escape my head. Now I got a post to return to when the time comes.

Heh. I get that feeling. Took me a long time to be familiar with them, but once you get into it they make a bit more sense (sort of learn by doing)

Dammit, your good Sense Motive rolls are spoiling my intrigue! ;)

What's that? We should all take Skill Focus (Sense Motive)? Okay! :D

I'll get you yet, my pretties :P

Aw, you think I'm pretty? That's so sweet!