A Game of Kingmaker

Game Master Wandering Wastrel

Great - I'll get something up for you based on your post.

Anyway, we're pretty much through this interlude, now. Thanks for your patience! It took waaay longer than I thought it would, which is on me.

So, you have some decisions to make about what support and conditions you're going to accept. Here, for the record, is what is on offer:

*19 Build points (BP) from the Mayor and assorted others (UNCONDITIONAL)

*7 BP from the Church of Erastil (IF you take one of their own as an advisor)

*7 BP from Tommaso Dottori and Co. (IF you adopt a Lawful alignment for your province AND have a non-zero tax rate)

*4 BP from Leroy Rezpierre (IF you adopt a Good alignment for your province)

*8 BP from House Medvyed (IF you take Karinna Medvyed as an adviser)

*15 BP from the Mayor (IF you commit to building 5 mines/quarries in the first 12 months)

In addition, Mitka is planning to offer something but I don't know if Nariel is going to accept - I'll leave that with her.

So, which of the various offers are you going to accept/refuse?

In addition (because why would I make things simple?), there's the issue of whether to offer a place to Yuri.

Once you let me know what your decisions are then we can move forward. In the meantime I will get the existing RP wrapped up.

Thanks - again - for bearing with this, it's been fun to write but obviously it does slow the pace down a LOT when I'm writing individual posts for each of you :)

Looking forward to getting everyone back on the same page...

I'll have a proper sit-down tomorrow and go through all of the posts - again! Please, do post your opinions and thoughts, I'll try to post mine tomorrow.

I'll summarize the one I'm involved with for you:

Karinna is a bastard child whose mother is dead. Her aunt, previously her protector and caretaker, is dying. Karinna wants to join us in the new Mark in order to make her own way. She is an extraordinarily good musician (even Tristan would admit she is his better), and claims to have other skills that would be useful to us. I'm sure you can roleplay the meeting with her (which Tristan already set up) if you wish, or just get a summary of some sort.

A lot of food for thought. There are a few that are low hanging fruit, hence their relatively low BP. I think, for example, taking Leroy's offer in exchange for keeping the alignment of the Mark good is something we'd have wished for anyway.

After that, it gets more politically tenuous. Taking the Mayor's offer gets us a lot of BP, but squarely aligns us with her, and would burn some bridges.

So I guess the guess the question is, what sacrifices are we comfortable making?

Also, I'll post now in game.

So I guess the guess the question is, what sacrifices are we comfortable making?

Or, whose offers are you comfortable refusing? :)

Just FYI, the kingdom-building rules suggest that an appropriate starting amount is 50 BP: enough to keep a new kingdom active for a few turns while it establishes its own economy, but still at risk of collapse from mismanagement or bad luck. You will definitely need more than the 19 BP (or 23 BP, including Leroy) you currently have 'banked'.

The AP suggests that you just hand out 50 BP to the party - but where's the fun in that?

Leroy's offer is easy to accept. I don't think anybody would have issues with having a Good-aligned kingdom.

I'm cool with taking Karinna Medvyed and agreeing to build mines. I'm a little leery on the church of Erastil, but would prefer Jhod over Izaak if we go that route. Raquel would argue against a Lawful kingdom but might get overruled.

Going by our party's composite alignment, I'd say that the kingdom should be NG. While Aivar wouldn't have too much issue with it being LG, his goddess is NG so in that sense he also drags it towards NG.

And with the 50 BP guideline in mind, it might be wise to aim for a number of BP around the 50 mark. Even if that means we have to make some concessions we don't like too much, like the 'build 5 mines/quarries'.

I'll draft a longer post later today when I have more time on my hands, but the only one I can see us rejecting is the offer from Tommaso. While I'm not too keen on opening the door to ambitious religious zealots, their offer is just *too* good to pass up on and Aivar fully trusts Jhod.

It's that Aivar believes faith comes from within, not from without, that he refuses to try and push for Shelyn to be at the forefront of all things religion. He might use some of his personal wealth to honor her, but unless there's an influx of Shelyn devotees, he won't use the Mark's budget for that.

I'll dive deeper into Yuri later, but I like to think that whether we accept him or not is mostly up to Sasha. If she vouches for him, who is Aivar to say no?

Tristan would certainly recommend taking Karinna with us. Eventually her musical talent may bring us fame and prestige, and he is sure she can contribute other things. There may be elements within House Medvyed that don't like us sheltering her, or giving a supposed bastard added legitimacy, but there may ALSO be elements in the house that will want to see the Aunt's wishes seen through. Without knowing more the dangers kinda balance out.

As to the mines, Tristan would say we accept the deal to build them. We'll need an economic basis anyway, and he likes the Mayor and prefers allying with her to most of the alternatives.

And finally, as to the Church of Erastil - Tristan himself worships Desna and Shelyn and is fine with religious people (though his own ferver for it waxes and wanes), but is uneasy with outright zealotry. Still, he is aware that the favor of the Church and Erastil himself would be VERY useful to founding the new Mark.

*19 Build points (BP) from the Mayor and assorted others (UNCONDITIONAL)

Done deal ;)

*7 BP from the Church of Erastil (IF you take one of their own as an advisor)

I say we accept. For starters, having ties to the Church of Erastil means our commoners should be able to rely on their protection during bad times. Second, there are no alternatives. As for Jhod vs Izaak, I think Izaak might be young and burning with ambition and as such, could be a good fit if we want to quickly 'civilize' the Mark. Jhod is a better fit for ye people. After all, they'll be an advisor and not some power-wielding individual who can overrule Aivar or the council. I hope.

*7 BP from Tommaso Dottori and Co. (IF you adopt a Lawful alignment for your province AND have a non-zero tax rate)

I find this one harder to accept. NG is more fitting for our group composition and also is more along the way of how I imagine a borderland county to be: the spirit of the law is just as important as the word of law. Still, it is one that Aivar would have no trouble accepting :) so it's all up to you.

*4 BP from Leroy Rezpierre (IF you adopt a Good alignment for your province)

Done. Also, Leroy might make for a great treasurer, but I imagine he's too busy with his day-time job of being a mean mean ducat-making machine.

*8 BP from House Medvyed (IF you take Karinna Medvyed as an adviser)

You'd almost think a royal marriage is in order here, but yes, I think we should go for this. What position should she have though? Also, Aivar *loves* all things art and music, so while I as a player might have my reservations, she only need to strum some lovely chords to win him over.

*15 BP from the Mayor (IF you commit to building 5 mines/quarries in the first 12 months)

A hard pill we must swallow. This is an enormous amount of BP *and* ties the Mark to Restov. With what's to come, this creates the sort of

In addition, Mitka is planning to offer something but I don't know if Nariel is going to accept - I'll leave that with her.

*holds his breath*

This would put us at 53 BP - a comfortable enough amount to get things on legs and soak up a setback or two without going down. Accepting Tommaso's request would put us at an incredible 60.

I'm going to post in more detail later tonight, but did anyone notice the Kingmaker 10th stuff they're promoting?

@Nariel: I did! KM is by far my favourite campaign; I'll be curious to see what they do with it. Especially if they build on some of the Intrigue stuff they put in War for the Crown :-)

I got no clue what Paizo's financials are like, but it always strikes me as odd that they heavily lean into the whole backer/kickstarter thing. I mean, I get it - you take away initial risks, but it makes you wonder how fragile this business is, even for bigger established names like Paizo.

And yes, you'd imagine they could fine-tune their mini-game systems and apply them as optional modular layers for your games! Why reinvent the wheel when you only need to slap one of your already existing systems onto the wheelbarrow-that-is-your-new-campaign?

My guess, for what that's worth, is that it's as much as interest check as anything financial, i.e. 'we'd like to do this but let's see if anyone would be willing to buy it'

I'm with you on most all of the offers on the table here. I rather more strongly support taking the Mayor's offer, mainly because there's only so much that Restov can reasonably ask of us outside of the economic.

As for Tommasso Dottori. It's funny, because Lawful isn't too bad, and levying taxes is a no-brainer. But man, am I getting some serious organized crime vibes from those guys, and it kinda worries me.

Organised crime? Nonononono - this is Finance. Completely different. Finance is legal.

See? Nothing to worry about ;)

I try not to meta-game (too much!) hence me not passing any judgment on Tommaso *rolls eyes* but I'm still very much of the opinion that NG is the best fit for us.

Hi all - just to let you know that a few weeks back my work pattern changed and I'm now going to have difficulty posting much on Mon, Weds and Thurs.

I will do my best on Mon/Wed/Thurs to post in-combat stuff to keep the game moving, but it will most likely be just a dice roll and a couple lines of text - anything like long RP, exposition, replies to PMs, etc. is going to have to be on other days.

I'm not dropping out, and I'm certainly NOT abandoning the games I'm running. But posting from me has been a lot slower than previously for a while now and I wanted to post the explanation.

Hope that's ok. I will do my best not to be 'that person' who slows everything up :)

No worries WW, it happens to all of us. I suspect June will be touch and go for me due to work as well, but then it'll clear up after that.

I'm just pleased as punch at how this game has progressed in any event. Most PbP suffer high attrition, and never make it this far. I can count on one hand the number of AP's that managed to get to book 2, so slow down or no, I'm a happy camper.

I also understand how demanding this last portion has been. Juggling six characters with detailed one-on-one posts with NPCs must be very time consuming, and way more than most GM's would do, so great work Wastrel :)

Thanks, Nariel! :D

It is fun, but takes ages to get each post up. I'll have another one up shortly, though.

@Aivar - since Sasha's player isn't here I feel I should try to plead her case slightly... is there anything that might make you more inclined to accept Tommasso Dottori's offer?

(also, on the L/N point, do remember that paladins are required to be LG regardless of the alignment of the deity they follow)

The truth is that Aivar thinks we now have the means necessary to build what we need, and the direct ties to ensure a flow of goods and people. I figure we will take on Yuri, meaning we should (?!) have all of our advisor slots sorted out as well. Right now we're already tied to quite a couple of organizations, families, and people, and more might mean trouble. You can only be loyal to so many in what you (will) do.

So, more would be excessive, but who knows? If Sasha vouches for Tommaso, Aivar would be inclined to agree. But, again, I don't feel cool enforcing a LG kingdom upon a mostly NG group. Besides, we're still a small fry, and I imagine that when things start getting codified because of in-game events, we might naturally drift more towards a LG kingdom.

And I do know paladins are supposed to be LG, but again, as a player I'd much rather the kingdom represent the group as a whole. With Jhod or Izaak around, there will be another LG voice on the council so I assume decisions will tend to hang in between the NG and LG spectrum - with the Graf having a final say. Aivar has learned from the Oleg debacle and that won't happen again under his watch.

Ugh, I can't help but feel a sense of tediousness whilst writing all this. Sometimes it is easier when there's a vocal majority behind you, haha xD

A NG kingdom seems like the best compromise for our party's makeup and outlooks.

As an aside, just wanted to make a purchase request of the group - I'd like to pickup a Lesser Extend Metamagic Rod for Nariel. Reason being, in one more level, we'll have access to Haste, as well as some other duration dependent spells (stinking cloud, monster summoning already could use it). I'd like to be able to make sure that buffs and debuffs last the duration of any combat, and for 3K that can happen, but that brings me over my current gold claim by about 600g.

If you're okay with it though, I'd like to see if I can grab one in town while we're still able. Once we get out to the Mark, getting a hold of one might be difficult.

I say go for it, Nariel.

Lesser Rod of Extend Spell is available in Restov :)

Go for it! It's one of the best items out there in its price range.

Great, that's a big help!

By the way, did anybody else purchase any magic items in Restov? I can update the sheet to reflect cash purchases. We still have about 15k gold available. Reminder that I do intend on picking up Craft Wonderous Items at 5th, so I might recommend holding off on those purchases for half.

Aivar didn't. He only bought clothes and jewelry so he can look the part :)

I bought a headband of wisdom +2

Don't forget everyone gets a cloak of protection +1 :-)

I did update Aivar's profile page to reflect the +1 cloak \._.\ I love bonuses to saves.

I believe Wastrel ok'd my slot switch to 'Gloves' of Dexterity +2, so yes I bought those (identical otherwise to normal belt of Dex).

Yes, I ok'd that switch so go ahead and update profiles and so on :)

Won't be able to post until tonight most likely; found the site really slow last night, couldn't logon.

I'm back!

While it seems like the decisions have been made regarding which offers to take, I feel as though I should add my two cents.

I understand that the party leans more neutral than lawful. Sasha herself is CG, although the more I play and flesh her out, the more I think she should have started LN.

I've also been quite leery of Tomasso as a sponsor. Somebody above mentioned that he has an organized crime vibe, which I've also picked up on. Sasha has tried to keep him at arm's length throughout the campaign, maintaining a correspondence without divulging everything that the party encountered in the Stolen Lands. Something about the man rubs her the wrong way.

On the other hand, he and his partners appear to represent a significant line of investment into our new Mark. If we acquiesce in some ways, it could lead to a booming economy, which Sasha is very much interested in. It also needs to be pointed out that everything the man does isn't sinister. He's the one that hired the mercenaries that helped to hold Oleg's.

Finally, Sasha would feel pretty strongly about finding Yuri a position. He seems to strike the balance between ambition and honor, and he's pretty desperate for a new start, so we'd have his loyalty.

Anyways, thanks for your patience! I'm glad to be back in the swing of things.

Welcome back!

And yes, always add your two cents, even if it feels you're a bit late to the party. My main gripe with Tommaso's offer is the fact I don't feel going LG is the way to go. Aivar has no knowledge of the man other than he made sure Oleg's was guarded by (some pretty good!) mercenaries, so he can't judge on whether or not his activities are suspect.

If we do not accept his offer, we could still reach out to him at some point for this or that. You'd expect someone like him to be interested in our (eventual) goldmine :)

And yes, I am in favor of getting Yuri onboard. I'm sure that will bring with it a whole lot of problems, but we'll deal with those as they come.

On the topic of Jhod, Aivar still feels he's the right fit and trustworthy, regardless of his heritage, but it does open the door for Izaak.

Now that I know Jhod's backstory, I like him even more. :)

I'm glad - I've been sitting on that for a while :-)

Whoops. Posted that under a different alias.

No worries, it happens!

I was going to try and get Tristan into some trouble in the interlude here, but I've been very busy and have decided it's best just to use the break to my advantage. Consider him to be drinking and carousing his heart out, maybe trying to do a little politicking and propaganda spreading about the new Mark.

I think we can safely wrap up the interlude stories up for Nariel now, I'll post tonight with her response to both men (whom apparently do not like each other putting Nariel in an awkward spot) and get back from Silverhall with Arianna.

@Tristan - in all honesty I'm not sure I could have coped with another subplot so all is good! ;-)

Sorry, that was my bad... Nariel has been pretty active the last week or two with subplots XD

On a side note from some of the subplots, I can't help but picture Dame Sarona as something of an Olena Tyrell type character... even though we've never even seen her (both Arianna and Nariel having been denied an audience lol)

Sorry for lack of posting; took a short break. I'm now back :)

Welcome back! Hey, we all need a break now and again :)

I think now would be a great time to kickstart the discussion on where to place our initial settlement! The two locations that Narièl mentioned in the gameplay thread are my favorites, but perhaps there are other places we ought to consider?

The river intersection would make for good trade. And it is closer to the hot springs which are relevant to Raquel's interests. ;)

First city should offer us the best advantages for starting out we can manage - defensible and productive. It needn't remain our capital forever, if down the road another settlement becomes more prosperous or otherwise prestigious to be the center of government.

That being said, I (player) would pick a spot even closer to the road to allow us a 'jumping off point' rather than dive straight into the deep wilds. I had been eyeing the river bend at H4 as such. We could always build that one next thought.

Tristan, however, knows little about such matters as yet and has few suggestions. :D

I'm in favor of the river fork for the sake of trade, passage, and presumably good farmland.

(also, because I realized I never actually did this, Arianna's shopping: masterwork breastplate with a +1 protective seal, ring of protection +1)

H4 was my initial pick. Close to the gold mine, close to the road, has access to fresh water. Don't forget that these rivers are absolutely useless for trade with or travel to Restov!

I'm hesitant to settle on top of the fort, but it might be rewarding to settle in between the gold mine and the temple of the Elk. The issue with that spot is that improving tiles with farms, mines, and roads will cost substantially more BP. Starting in H4 means we have plenty of cheap tiles to grow into it.