I was originally peeved at myself for using the word 'broadcast' in this context due to thinking it originated with radio. Looked it up, and apparently the etymology actually comes from a method of sowing where you just scatter seeds around - casting them broadly. I'm saved!
So...
With the various offers you've accepted, you start with 53 BP in the treasury.
On Kingdom roles, it's looking like
Ruler - Aivar
Councillor - Raquel
General - DECISION NEEDED
Diplomat - Tristan
High Priest - Jhod
Magister - Nariel
Marshal - DECISION NEEDED
Enforcer - DECISION NEEDED
Spymaster - Sasha
Treasurer - DECISION NEEDED
Warden - Arianna
You have Karinna, Eva, Yuri (and possibly Kesten, although nobody's asked him) as immediately-available NPCs. Maybe more will turn up in due course.
Anyway, I have at long last opened up the Rulership link so you can see how things stand for now :)
The Ruler (Aivar) gets to decide which attribute (Loyalty, Stability or Economy) he puts his stat-bonus in. This is a one-time decision and cannot be reversed.
The Spymaster (Sasha) gets to decide which attribute (Loyalty, Stability or Economy) she puts her stat-bonus in. This decision can be changed during the Edict Phase of the Kingdom turn.
I've defaulted you both to Stability but let me know what you want.
You also need to decide on:
*number of holidays/year (0, 1, 6, 12 or 24);
*promotion level (none, token, standard, aggressive, expansionist); and
*taxation level (none, light, normal, heavy or overwhelming).
I was originally peeved at myself for using the word 'broadcast' in this context due to thinking it originated with radio. Looked it up, and apparently the etymology actually comes from a method of sowing where you just scatter seeds around - casting them broadly. I'm saved!
It's tricky, isn't it. I remember the late Terry Pratchett saying that every fantasy writer carefully starts out avoiding references to obvious things like Alsatian dogs, Toledo steel and suchlike, but eventually you end up using something: his example was something like a barbarian warrior looking to put a slab of cold kav'ri'toh meat (or whatever fantasy beast you invent) between two pieces of bread probably has no better word to use than 'sandwich'...
I've played enough Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis to know what to do with uppity advisors ;)
Oh crap. I'm a LG paladin.
Mwahahahah... all of that "I'm above the fray, I don't dirty my hands" not looking quite so attractive now, is it?
;)
Now that I've had some time to think about it, H4 is a sensible choice. Like Karinna suggested, the idea of settling on a lake is wonderful sounding, but it's location is remote, making it problematic.
There are natural advantages with H4; it's relatively flat grassland that can be easily cultivated. We'll need food from agriculture, and H4 will provide for that better than other spots indicated I should think. Plus, with a river, we can easily power mills and the whatnot.
As for General, were we going to ask Garess? I feel like we discussed that awhile back, but there is probably a reason we aren't that I'm totally blanking on.
With Karinna's penchant for logistics and numbers, she might make a good Treasurer. Yuri could perhaps fit the bill for our Marshal/General? No ideas for the Royal Enforcer role.
From what I recall Garess wants to retire and then Yuri came into play. He should slot right into our team of misfits! As for Enforcer, we could ask Eva, but I foresee a ton of trouble brewing up ahead if we go for that option ;-)
And yes, H4 really feels like the most sensible spot.
Can't edit the other post, so here goes:
H4 is a super sensible starting position and, in my opinion, the easiest place to expand from. The farmlands are easily claimed and our starting tile will require a minimal input of BP to get going. K4, on the other hand, makes more sense from a RP perspective when you take into account *what* exactly we will want to be doing in the first year or so: mine, mine and mine! Yes, the forest tile is more expensive and yes, the tiles around us will require more BP to be settled, but the proximity to the temple of the Elk and the gold mine ought to offset that.
I suggest that if we do not come to a natural consensus, we simply put this up for a vote ASAP.
On advisors, I say we have Yuri, Karinna and possibly Eva take up a position that most correlates with their abilities. That leaves us one short and, going by what I've read from Narièl's conversations with Mitka, he would be a great addition to our team. Sure, it would hurt our prestige, but one wouldn't be wrong to ask: what prestige? I'm not sure if he'd be up for it though. We can also approach Kesten Garess, but know that he is the LG type and will most definitely resist any CG'ish shenanigans. Not that this bothers Aivar :)
K4 is also extremely near the Trading Post, which could prove a great benefit.
I'm torn between them, but in the end I think K4 may be slightly the superior, if only because it is adjacent to the freaking gold mine and near-adjacent to the Trade Post (which will help with safety). Nothing jump-starts an economy like gold! But both are strong, and quite frankly whichever one we settle first we should probably settle the other at the first opportunity.
Also recommend Karinna for Treasurer, I believe she herself said she'd be useful in that capacity.
I am down with that :)
As for Enforcer, we could ask Eva, but I foresee a ton of trouble brewing up ahead if we go for that option ;)
Royal Enforcers tend not to be, on the whole, Lawful Good. Especially when you recall that the job title was originally Royal Assassin ^_^
Regarding your choice of first hex, the ONLY thing I will say is that the kingdom building mechanics can be remorseless and brutal for the first few turns if the dice aren't with you. I approve of you taking RP into account, but, just this once, I would advise doing what is sensible (assuming that there's a clash between the two, of course - which there may not be).
...and on the subject of crappy kingdom dice rolls, one mechanic I used with my tabletop group was the option to gain re-rolls by increasing consumption.
Basically, it represented an investment in infrastructure so that you had levees built if floods hit, and proper grain stores in case of famine/rodent infestation, that sort of thing.
If that's of interest, let me know and I'll post the rules I came up with (if I can find them).
Mitka would actually be the ideal Enforcer if we're talking seriously about him; it's basically the kind of work he already does. Unfortunately, going with him definitely puts us in a bind in political ways... specifically with certain families. He has already crossed paths and made enemies within some of the major households (the Lebeda in particular).
That said, he would be excellent at the job.
As to tiles with which to start, K4 is also an excellent choice. The lumber available would help for building the settlement, and it still provides a river for mills. Unfortunately, it would mean a slower start for our agriculture sector, meaning we'd have to import some food. No site is perfect ultimately, but our contenders seem to be those two.
So long as we can ensure a steady supply of food, I think K4 might better choice initially.
The nice thing about K4 is that the first two farms we'd build would be ideal places for roads so that we're connected with the outpost. Don't forget that you can put a farm anywhere - sure, it is a bit more expensive in hills, but they're still worth the investment :)
Tally:
H4: ?Tristan?
K4: Aivar / ?Tristan? / Raquel / ?Narièl?
And yes, I figured as much, Narièl. He just seems like such a fun character to have around from a RP pov!
As for the Royal Enforcer: it is a position that occurs us no penalty if it is vacant, so there's that.
Hey I've totally been here and paying attention. Alright sorry real life issues have been getting in the way.
But, now that I'm actually looking at it properly, taking into account what GM said about picking the sensible spot, I'm in favor of H4. Not only is it cheap to develop, but it is available for development immediately, while hills take a month to get ready for building.
Also, we need to figure out a Marshal still cause Arianna's brother is...understandably skeptical but perhaps a little small-minded.
I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the decision is to ask Yuri to be Marshal and to see whether Garess' decision to retire is final, and if not then to ask him to be General.
You can certainly ask Mitka if he's interested, but he has a reasonably important role in one of the major noble Houses. Unless things change suddenly (and this is Brevoy, where everything hangs by a thread) he's unlikely to swap that for anything you could offer him. Feel free to ask, though :)
Correct!
And yes, H4 is the easy spot, but severely railroads us into what we can and cannot do in the coming turns. K4 is more modular and yes, while surrounded by forests and hills, these tiles aren't all that costly if we use them for mines, quarries and logging camps.
I've played enough boardgames and Civilization to know that 'skipping a turn' in order to get a better starting spot for your settlement is risky business, but I think K4 is worth it.
Do vote tho! ^^
I'm not headstrong enough to go against GM advice on something like this. My vote is now for H4. K4 will make a great second settlement spot... :D
Haha, fair enough xD
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I spit in the eye of GM advice!
#chaotic4life
I spit in the eye of GM advice!
#chaotic4life
Ellie does the same thing, which is why she's just been dropped twice in consecutive rounds ;)
Oof. What's a guy gotta do to go absent on the boards a few days and not come back to 50+ posts to read? :P
Sasha would argue in favor of K7, the spot of the Stag Lord's fort. In the short term, there's a fort we could use as a center for our government and the lake would provide plenty of fish for settlers. In the long term, being at a juncture between two rivers and a lake would make our city an important hub, economically and strategically.
But K4 and H4 are both decent spots too.
It's tricky, isn't it. I remember the late Terry Pratchett saying that every fantasy writer carefully starts out avoiding references to obvious things like Alsatian dogs, Toledo steel and suchlike, but eventually you end up using something: his example was something like a barbarian warrior looking to put a slab of cold kav'ri'toh meat (or whatever fantasy beast you invent) between two pieces of bread probably has no better word to use than 'sandwich'...
Unless it's Steven King's Dark Tower series. Then they're called 'popkins'.
We could leave the Enforcer role vacant until a good candidate comes along, since as Aivar mentioned, there is no penalty. Mitka is a good choice, but he is as Wastrel mentioned, presently occupied. Leaving to join our settlement might be a difficult sell at this stage. Plus, we just made a tenuous peace with the Lebeda (I think) so there's that to consider.
As to location, I like the idea of the Fort, but it's distance from our trade partners make it perilous. It's difficulty to reach was one of hte reasons the Stag Lord setup there I should think.
Which brings me back to H4 or K4.
H4
- Pros -
River Access
Good farm land
3 hex travel to the Outpost
- Cons -
Not adjacent to the Mine
Proximity to the Sootscale
K4
- Pros -
River Access
2 hex travel to the Outpost
Adjacent to the mine
Lumber readily available
- Cons -
Not easily made into farmland, food will need to be imported.
So on the balance sheet, K4 has a lot going for it... though the agriculture issue nags me. I think at the end of the day, K4 is the better choice, so I'm casting my vote there with the caveat of we'll need a solid influx of food imports in order to make it work.
Here's something else: H4 will be ready right away, the fort would take 1 turn, and K4 would take 2 (!) turns. That means that if we go for H4, we can claim two hexes by the turns we'd save. Plains for a farm, hills for a mine or quarry. Add in a mill at the town, and bam, H4 snowballs well past the other two spots.
That's why I originally went all in for H4. I had some troubles digging up specific parts of the rules (like terrain impacting prep time for a settlement), and now I'm reminded again of why H4 is ... well, it just is the superior option :x
Here's something else: H4 will be ready right away, the fort would take 1 turn, and K4 would take 2 (!) turns. That means that if we go for H4, we can claim two hexes by the turns we'd save. Plains for a farm, hills for a mine or quarry. Add in a mill at the town, and bam, H4 snowballs well past the other two spots.
That's why I originally went all in for H4. I had some troubles digging up specific parts of the rules (like terrain impacting prep time for a settlement), and now I'm reminded again of why H4 is ... well, it just is the superior option :x
Yeah, I need to dig out my Ultimate Campaign book and review the system... based on that assessment, H4 is the more strategic option.
The d20pfsrd site is a bit of a hot mess when it comes to the kingdom building rules :x I haven't given aonprd a go, but maybe it is better on their site.
I've only ever looked at them on d20pfsrd, and yeah - it's a bit of a chore.
> https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Kingdom%20Building&Category=Kingdoms %20and%20War
It's a bit better, if only because as good as all the info is listed on one page. It does, however, lack the option to click on stuff and have the page jump to it.
> https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Kingdom%20Building%20Overview&Catego ry=Kingdom%20Building
Thanks for the links.
OK, sounds like you have advisors sorted (barring a General - go talk to Kesten) and a starting hex (H4). Great work!
I still need answers to the following questions since I haven't had them already.
1) AIVAR - what attribute (Economy/Stability/Loyalty) do you want your Cha bonus to go into? Once made, this can't be changed.
2) SASHA - what attribute (Economy/Stability/Loyalty) do you want your Dex bonus to go into? This can be changed during the Edict phase, but only once per turn.
3) What number of holidays/year (0, 1, 6, 12 or 24) are you going to go for?
4) What promotion level (none, token, standard, aggressive, expansionist)?
5) What taxation level (none, light, normal, heavy or overwhelming)?
6) Do you want the option to gain re-rolls by increasing consumption (see my post above)?
EDIT: I know this feels like a lot of paperwork, and it is. But most of these decisions, once made, you don't have to revisit - it does get easier from here :)
@Sasha - I guess we should both go for Economy. That would bring our Eco score to +9. Not great, not terrible.
My suggestion:
Holidays: 6
Promotion: standard
Taxation: normal
+4 consumption, +2 stability, +2 economy. Getting a farm up ASAP will help with the consumption costs, but if Sasha and Aivar go for +ECO, that would bring our bonuses up to +11 eco, +8 loyalty, +16 stability. We could also go for 1 / token / light and end up at +10 eco, +8 loyalty and +15 stability but our consumption would only be +2.
6) Sure!
Well, I think initially we should keep taxes low, especially if both Aivar and Sasha are adding their attribute to the economy. Nariel's is already added to it, as will Karinna's. Once we fill the Marshal position, that too will add to the Economy.
That brings me to my next suggestion: Yuri for Marshal, and we approach Garess about the General position. Those are critical positions, and need to be filled else we suffer a big penalty.
As to the enforcer, I think we leave it for now... Mitka would actually make a good fit, but I don't think we have anything yet to offer him to pull him away from his current gig.
So my suggestion, similar but slightly different:
Holidays: 6 (we could probably use the loyalty, it's our lowest attribute)
Promotion: Token (keep our consumption lower)
Taxes: Light
+10 Economy, +9 Loyalty, +15 Stability and +3 consumption.
And yes, we should reserve the ability to re-roll by increasing consumption. I would liken that to Keynesian economics, injecting some capital (borrowing if necessary) to help kick start the economy in bad times.
Also, I think we're settled on H4 then, correct?
Also as an aside, reading over the rules I realized the Magister is also the one tasked with higher learning and promotion of education; kind of reminded me of the Maester position in Game of Thrones, which I thought was kinda neat.
But, whereas Luwin, Pycelle and Qyburn were all old decrepit men (and Sam was, well, Sam), the Ruler of Dornmark gets a sexy elf for his Maester, so yeah... Aivar wins XD
Shelyn has blessed these lands.
I agree with the sexy elf's plan! :D
Ok, sound like things are coming together.
Re-rolls are purchased using consumption. An additional +1 to consumption gets you 1 re-roll per calendar year. +2 consumption gets you 2 re-rolls/calendar year. +4 consumption gets you 3 re-rolls/calendar year and +8 consumption gets you 4 re-rolls/calendar year.
Rulership tab updated, btw. If you spot any errors let me know.
I'll be out of town from Friday through Monday and won't be able to post much during that time. GM, please feel free to bot me if necessary.
Thanks for the heads up.
I'll grt a post up this evening
Sorry, I'll get a post up this afternoon or this evening; it was a busy weekend!
No probs, my posting has been particularly shoddy of late. Hoping to do better this week!
...incidentally, still need a decision on the reroll question from someone :-)
If you mean increase consumption to gain rerolls, Aivar has replied in the affirmative here.
Yes, but I need to know numbers as I posted here
I'd be in favor of at least two rolls, since it is still a one-to-one cost; after that, they get pricey.
OK, assuming nobody else chips in to object then I'm going to go with 2 re-rolls for a cost of 2 consumption.
Woo! \._.\ Warhammer and X-Wing have taught me the importance of dice modifiers so any and all rerolls are super duper welcome.
The prosecution rests, m'lud - although, in fairness it probably was just coincidence (it's a fairly generic name, after all), but I'm sure I'm not the only D&D veteran who raised an eyebrow at the recent blog updates.
(then again, maybe I am. Yeesh, I've been playing this game a long time)
Man, now I want to go on a vacation to South Gnollistan. Mystara is one of those settings I've never played in - my olde DM had a special love for Greyhawk and Kingdoms of Kalamar.
South Gnollistan?! Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded :)
Mystara, boy that's going back a ways.