This has always been one of the most open-ended spells I've ever seen. What are some of the best ways to utilize this spell? What are some of your most memorable moments using or being subjected to a Suggestion?
"We have clearly superior arms, and even two casters. If i were you i'd switch sides now, before it is too late and well have to kill you like the rest..."
Well, wouldn't that cause the spell to end once they have taken up on your Suggestion? And probably going back to attacking you?
The favorite one I have ever heard of is this:
"The adventurers before you are dangerously competent and surprisingly wealthy. Turning on your allies could not only save your life, but net you a respectable paycheck to boot".
Careful, guys. This topic tends to lead to big boring arguments.
One I used recently:
"I suggest you prevent your summoner from casting any more spells before he sabotages your party further." (The party summoner had just brought in a Create Pit that backfired on everyone, and the target of the spell was especially miffed about it.)
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The one time I used Mass Suggestion, I convinced several opponents the only way to defeat us was with Bludgeoning weapons, which my character noticed none of them had. They continued the fight trying to use the flat of their blades, going for -4 and nonlethal at that. Archers put down their bows and drew their crummy secondary weapons.
Another time I was struck by a Dryad with Suggestion. She convinced me the forest she dwelled in was incredibly dangerous, and made the suggestion for me to leave immediately.
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Careful, guys. This topic tends to lead to big boring arguments.
I don't see how.
One I used recently:"I suggest you prevent your summoner from casting any more spells before he sabotages your party further." (The party summoner had just brought in a Create Pit that backfired on everyone, and the target of the spell was especially miffed about it.)
There is no chance that suggestion qualifies as reasonable. I wouldn't let that sort of thing fly at my table, because I would actually use common sense and don't allow my caster players to get away with murder. You can't just convince someone that they should kill their ally because of a single incident. The spell is called "Suggestion", not "Do exactly what I say even if it is obviously insane".
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Actually, I found it almost reasonable enough to apply the -1 penalty on the save to my character. That Create Pit really screwed us.
But it wouldn't mean Farrukh would have killed Rodrigo. More Grapple or harry him so it's hard to cast. He didn't say "kill your ally" he said "prevent him from casting". At worst, Ready to nonlethally whack him if he casts. Even with a -4, Farrukh can hit Rodrigo on a 5. Party boy needs to armor up.
Another one directed at me in my first Pathfinder campaign (3rd character, a temp while my second re-trained): "Why don't you come over here and smoke some of this good pesh? Relax..."
I failed that save. Spent the whole combat laying on my back blowing smoke rings.
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Thanks for summing it up for me, Rynjin. And thanks for keeping a light tone, Snowblind—I would definitely not allow "Murder your friend". Maybe "Murder Janice, the kobold in trapcounting who just doesn't give a f#&* about you front-line fighters and probably plans to laugh while you die", but only in cases like that where the ally isn't that well-liked or is even overtly disliked.
You know, like in your typical adventuring party.
;P
The best suggestion I've seen was probably:
In book 2 we needed a sacrifice to unleash a Daemon lord (needed his powerful plague to help win a war - long story). The final sacrifice was "The blood of the victor," which was the first king that sealed the daemon away. The authors expect you to kidnap one of the king's cousins who has a military job in the backwater town you end up in.
Instead, we thought it would be much cleaner to just pose one of our characters (most of us were playing females) as his wife and get pregnant! No missing person, no extra trouble. We hit his wife with a suggestion when she was walking the streets to ensure that she would "Stay out all night partying, since her home life was boring." After that it was pretty easy to 'jump' the husband when he got home and do the deed.
The GM was impressed.
One other comes to mind:
I heard from a friend (not at my table) that at the start of one of the encounters in the library, the Aspis agent got off a mass suggestion to "Help me look for this book" and every single PC failed. Supposedly they ended up getting the book and parting ways amicably.
In a recent scenario in the snow the evil spellcaster suggested to the Taldan Noble
"Go home and make a cup of tea."
the same caster then suggested to the Hellknight to cool of a bit "Go outside and roll naked in the snow"
the players laughed, saying that that would only take a few of rounds until I pointed out the time needed to get armored again...
In PFS, actually, it was awesome.
Our opponent was an evil manipulative woman and the tam went after her to her chambers. She cast suggestion on the paladin and suggested that 'since his other companions would be enough to arrest her, it'd be fine to leave and report success in advance'. Which means he was spending quite some time walking through city districts and awaiting the others while they had concluded their wrap-up business.
So much for the ranged character. ^^
I paraphrase but: "The souls I captured in jars are hanging above a portal to the abyss on the lower level and about to be dropped, if you leave now you might be able to save dozens from being consumed by or warped into demons."
This was plausible given the situation, so my cleric spent like 3 rounds running down to the BBEG's fortress' lower level before seeing nothing like that and running back up. Sometimes no matter how high your will save you roll really low.
Yeah, that's a pretty good way for a Demon/Evil Spellcaster to play upon your character's morals.
While not suggestion, I recently had a few players of mine try to convince a boss that they were allies of the assassin sent to kill someone else. Bluff check? She rolled 18+18. Sense motive? 3. She believed they were his allies, and was caught completely off guard when Hold Person was cast on her, and she failed enough times they were able to tie her up. *sigh*
These aren't the droids you're looking for...
"These are not the droids you are looking for"
You ninjaed me!
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how about "these are not the druids you're looking for"?
For those of you who backport official 3.5 material into your PF game, the Spell Compendium's Voice of the Dragon spell was vastly superior to Suggestion ... and yet as a 4th level spell, allowed you to end the spell early by triggering a Suggestion as a Standard Action.
It's worth a look.
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(The game where I originally did this was 3.5, so it was some monument in Waterdeep that I can't remember the name of, so the names have been changed to protect the poor schmuck who rolled a 2 on his save.)
"Go to Magnimar and wait for me at Sheila Heidmarch's Manor. I'll be wearing a green hat and cloak with a dragon insignia. You'll know me when you see me."
These are great examples.
What about this?
"Careful now. Your spell components have been trifled with, and are very toxic. Just a touch is all it would take to put you 6 feet under."
Think that might work against a spellcaster to force them to use other means? It might be a bad idea to target someone with a high Will Save, but it's worth a shot.
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"You do not want to sell me any deadsticks. You will go home and rethink your life."
Can I sell you some life sticks then? :)
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"Let's see who can do the most push ups in one minute. You go first."
I see a ton of uses for making enemies leave the combat scene. Has anyone else devised some more intricate Suggestions for different results?
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"You should cover your ears with both hands so I can't cast any more Suggestions on you."
I was kinda an ass when I played a character the used a lot of Suggestions. Mostly because I was Lawful Evil and used it more on the rest of the party than anyone else.
I always got exactly the loot I wanted, whatever course of action I wanted was what the party did. Though, I frequently simply said, "Suggestion: 'Go Away.'" It really served more as a role playing tool than an effective weapon.
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"Go home and be a family man," is my favorite, especially if it's a geas.
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Teach me Druidic.
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"You do not want to sell me any deadsticks. You will go home and rethink your life."Deathsticks, not deadsticks.
When you get outnerded by yourself.
Prevent him from casting != kill him. Grappling him would suffice.Careful, guys. This topic tends to lead to big boring arguments.
I don't see how.
One I used recently:"I suggest you prevent your summoner from casting any more spells before he sabotages your party further." (The party summoner had just brought in a Create Pit that backfired on everyone, and the target of the spell was especially miffed about it.)
There is no chance that suggestion qualifies as reasonable. I wouldn't let that sort of thing fly at my table, because I would actually use common sense and don't allow my caster players to get away with murder. You can't just convince someone that they should kill their ally because of a single incident. The spell is called "Suggestion", not "Do exactly what I say even if it is obviously insane".
Yeah, this is where I get confused. Suggestion is right in between other similar Compulsions like Command and Dominate Person. I have trouble drawing the lines precisely where to determine what it can and cannot do.
I'm trying to stick to the beginning phrase "If I may make a suggestion..." as if I was having a normal oonversation with someone when I cast the spell. Kill your friends? Too heavy. Drop your weapons? Too light.
But hey, that's why I decided to start this topic.
I see a ton of uses for making enemies leave the combat scene. Has anyone else devised some more intricate Suggestions for different results?
-"Keep a smile on" sounds reasonable, but it's going to last for hours. Funerals and murder scenes are generally not good places to be smiling.
-Suggestion is a lot more powerful with Glibness. Some of the ones mentioned so far seem to rely on the target believing an obvious lie to be reasonable. Which is where +20 to bluff comes in handy. Or any of a number of handy illusion spells, of course.
- Two independent castings can achieve an unreasonable request sometimes. A GM might consider "teach me Druidic" obviously harmful or unreasonable, but "speak in Druidic" and "repeat what I say" are both reasonable.
- Get somebody else to clean up your crime scene for you, or make sure somebody doesn't have an alibi for when the crime takes place.
- Feel good about yourself without putting any effort in- compel others to go do charitable work for you.
What's funny is that sometimes Command can be much better than Suggestion. Use "Approach" on a target from behind your whole party. The resultant AoOs actually killed a PC in one of my games (or brought him low enough to be one-hit killed the next round). Suggestion would in many games block that as being "obviously harmful".
"You should cover your ears with both hands so I can't cast any more Suggestions on you."
This one is clever.
"Don't you know you're allergic it iron? You should get rid of all you are carrying so you don't get sick."Wait, it's already made its way into your bloodstream!
If you happen to have 8.6 seconds and an adequate vacuuming system, I can help you with that.
"Don't forget all that dihydrogen monoxide poisoning."
"Go home and be a family man," is my favorite, especially if it's a geas.
Street Fighter 2 music just queued up in my head so hard.
*pats pockets for any spare quarters*
"Go home and be a family man," is my favorite, especially if it's a geas.Street Fighter 2 music just queued up in my head so hard.
*pats pockets for any spare quarters*
How I miss arcades...seriously. Much more fun to play there than at home.
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What's funny is that sometimes Command can be much better than Suggestion. Use "Approach" on a target from behind your whole party. The resultant AoOs actually killed a PC in one of my games (or brought him low enough to be one-hit killed the next round). Suggestion would in many games block that as being "obviously harmful".
Ah, Command used to allow such funny options! I was in a game a long, long time ago - back in the old D&D days - where a friend was playing a cleric. We ran into a patrol of guards and he pointed at one guy and said - well, the word for self-pleasuring that ends in "-bate" - and we all were stunned by the brilliance of it. We had to take a break because we were laughing so hard!
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"Go tell your mother all your misdeeds"
"The princess is in another castle"
"Dance like no ones watching"
"Go tell your mother all your misdeeds"
"The princess is in another castle"
"Dance like no ones watching"
We can dance if we want to...