I only have one MC character, and that's my Fighter/horizon walker.
In general I like it for martials and I dislike it for casters.
I like doing it with Prestige classes. I'd do it for a character concept which often leads to less optimized because of it. It makes for more interesting characters I find.
Like I had a Inquisitor with Darkness domain in FR campaign who worshiped Mask. I ended up taking Shadow Dancer even though it weakened my character but it just fit the role playing going on.
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I multiclass almost religiously. Generally between one and four levels to give myself abilities or feats that complete the ideas I have for my character. I only have a few exceptions that I never Multiclass.
Magus- just to many abilities that can get held up for to long. Also they can do so much that i can't imagine the need to multiclass
Alchemist - Same as above, if your character is a Alchemist what else could you need to get (exception for rage chymist)
Oracle and Sorcerer. If you are trying to have 9th level spells, don't multiclass. Just don't do it.
Other than that they are all fair game as long as the abilities fit the dream.
There are a few builds that do it really well, but generally only when you have a good synergy between both abilities and primary stats for both.
The Oradin is one - a level 4 Oracle of Life/x Paladin. You can basically use Life Link from the Life Mystery to grant your entire party Fast Healing 5 and keep yourself healed by Lay on Hands. It works well because both benefit from high Charisma, the primary class (Paladin) isn't a main caster so dipping doesn't hurt spell progression much and so on.
Primary casters lose a lot from multiclassing. To their credit Paizo have done a good job of ensuring progressing bonuses as you level, so there's almost always a compelling reason to stay as a single class rather than just further BAB/HP progression.
I mostly do it to martial characters so you are pretty badass early levels and still survive well later on. But say if you are fighter or monk, your team have pretty good team work and they understand you will need all the gears you can get to make your class work, stick to what you got.
Zen archer at level 20 with your wisdom, strength and dex maxed out with bracer of armor +8 along with +5 amulet of natural armor and ring of protection is pretty tank and scary.
Fighter at level 20 with a +5 Ghost touch Phase lock Anchoring scythe with a + 5 heavy Fortification full plate is not bad too when you have mask of giant and Lunge.
From what I see in Pathfinder, multi-classing (to me and most of my group) seems unnecessary. Most of our character concepts are usually pulled off with archtypes or feats. Also, now with the ACG coming out it pretty much solidified my stance on it. Keep in mind, we don't min-max/optimize. I don't mind if other people want to multiclass however.
I love multiclassing! Even though it isn't really necessary (and is often detrimental) it makes a character feel unique. Kind of like colouring outside the lines a bit just to show that it was a human being who filled out this colouring book and not a robot*.
I am running a Samurai/Oracle/Chevalier currently and he's pretty fun. But sometime afterwards I'm really looking forward to playing a Winter Witch Magus.
*Why robots would be trying to fill our your colouring book I don't know.
I often times get bored with only taking levels in one class and start looking for MC options to get in some fresh wind.
And for some builds I already start with MCing in mind.
I make up some character and then i try to fit him in the rules. That often involve multiclassing but far from always.
Curious to see what people think about multi-classing in general.
Do you have any characters that have levels in more than one class?
What do you think about it?
I have a concept in mind(slightly inspired by the animated series Avatar: The Last Airbender), but haven't put it to paper yet. I am thinking of taking levels as Monk and Druid with an Undine boon I have from GMing at a local event. Using fighting styles while also Wild-Shaping and throw around some spears.
I don't know if I will create the character any time soon, but wanted to share my little idea since I'm still mulling over details, and also wanted to hear about concepts my fellow players have created.
It honestly boils down to what the intention is in multi-classing. Is it a ludicrous power build that is specific in intention? It is a build that takes advantage of special class features/archetypes to achieve an above average power? Is it there to add flavor for RP?
I have a retired Werewolf Sorcerer 1/Fighter 1/EK 4/Dragon Disciple 7 who was built for power. Of course I realized later how stupidly easy getting DR is with arcane builds and rethought the idea of being a werewolf. It was fun, of course, being a bestial character is one of my favorites.
There is a warm fuzzy part of my heart for Gishes even if they are overly complicated and situational at best as well as often times gimped at castiness when compared to their dedicated counterparts.
The general rule I offer is thus: Mutli-class if you are doing it for a reason. If you don't have a specific reason for it then you probably wont be gaining much out of it. It is also highly possible that pointlessly multi-classing can make you less viable in the party. Of course this wasn't as bad as it was in 3.5 since the classes are just better in Pathfinder, but it is still entirely possible to gimp yourself beyond recognition with pointless multi-classing. It is not as obvious in Pathfinder because everyone is highly competent at what they do, but in 3.5 an unoptimized group was just begging to be killed by a hard or standard encounter or two.
Lets take the Monk 1/Druid 19 build. The druid is going to have better defenses than the druid 20 and better abilities than the monk 20. He will likely also be more capable than the monk 10/druid 10 since he is still getting all of the major benefits of the druid while also gaining the most important aspects of the monk (Wis to AC) from a dipping perspective.
For your Airbender character I would, since I discovered it recently, go with a Sylph Magus (Kensai) all to 20, and focus on Dex instead of STR. The main reason being the use of Windy Escape to gain DR at level 1 and increase character longevity. For fighting just two cesti since when not spell-combatting it means he can fight with both or only 1.
If he has a great WIS score then maybe a level in monk.
The primary reason multi-classing was so popular in 3.0 and 3.5 was because the base classes were total garbage. The PrCs were just plain better. A 3.5 lvl 20 Fighter was only slightly better than a level 20 Warrior, whereas in Pathfinder the difference is enormous.
In Pathfinder multi-classing is a give and take (Do I want cool abilities or 9th level casting or stupidly high circumstantial AC) whereas in 3.5 it was a CLEAR benefit. (Do I want 10d6 sneak attack damage, or SPELLS, stupidly high offense, defense, utility, and cool stuff while doing a ton more damage with 10d6 or more sneak attack damage?)
I think it's all about the character concept.
If you're planning to play a certain prestige class (arcane trickster, anyone) then you might be required to multi-class. Nothing wrong with that -- it's built into the character concept from the beginning.
I'm currently playing an inquisitor. There are certain inquisitor builds that would benefit from multi-classing into cleric, maybe fighter. The way I built mine, that wouldn't help me much. (I'll spare everyone another "tell you about my character" post.) So I'm gonna be single-classed all the way up to 20, like one of those amplifier ads.
Cuz going up to 11 wasn't high enough.
Some classes can benefit from multiclassing, some do not.
A fighter / Ranger multiclass allows someone to trade off feats for skill points to balance a desired result.
A summoner is very level dependent and most mutliclassing with the class gains little benefit wen weighed against the loss of ability. The same is true with many classes with an animal copanion - though most classes with an animal companion option can opt out of it (Rangers can give allies bonuses instead, druids can choose an elemental domain instead). In general, casters usually suffer when multiclassing, unless multiclassing into a prestige class that allows the caster to continue gaining spells in the base class.
In D&D 3.5 the mystic theurge was an awesome combination once the PC gained 10+ levels in the various classes. In Pathfinder, the trade-offs are iffy. I would only try such a build in a group that hated to play casters and "forced" one player that was comfy to play a caster to try covering the arcane and divine caster role at the same time.
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I love multiclassing, my PFS characters are currently:
Cavalier 1/Evangelist Cleric 11 (was going to do Battle Herald, but cleric casting was better)
Paladin 10/Master of Many Styles Monk 1/Holy Vindicator 1
Magus 8 (no plans to multiclass)
Gendarme Cavalier 4/Thug, Scout Rogue 3 (going 2 more rogue levels then Hellknight prestige class)
Oracle of Life 6 (might dip Holy Vindicator, not sure)
Warpriest 6 (no plans on multiclass)
Enlightened Philosopher Oracle of Nature 1/Oath of Vengence Paladin 1 (plan on increasing only paladin levels)
and a Planned:
Lore Warden Fighter 1/ Wizard (diviner/scryer) 1/ Eldrich Knight 5/ Arcane Archer 4 (if leveling higher go back to EK)
I multiclass with most PCs. Some multiclassed characters I've played or am currently playing include:
Human Monk 1/Druid 18 - This guy did lots of pouncing, lots of grappling, and quite a bit of summoning, all with Wisdom to AC. He'd also turn into a Huge Earth Elemental and punch people, usually with flank from his hyena companion. AC 40+, crushing attacks, and Greater Grapple almost for free easily made up for being behind a caster level.
Gnome Monk1/Summoner 14 - This PC rides around on a toad-like eidolon with Bodyguard and In Harm’s Way. His Wisdom helps give him a very high AC, and his bonus feats allowed him to get Bodyguard at 1st level and still be able to fit feats like Mounted Combat and Augment Summoning into the build. Sure, the eidolon is a level behind, but the master can boost its AC by +3 and Ride away touch attacks.
Human Paladin 4/Bard 12 - This PC features high attack bonuses and AC combined with decent damage, self-healing (rarely needed), and a vast array of buffs. Oath of Vengeance is really great. My girlfriend's Oracle 1/Wizard 1/Sorcerer 14 in the same game also does just fine.
I'd say that an Alchemist 15 (only played from levels 13-15) was probably my most powerful Pathfinder PC overall. The Paladin/Bard is more fun though, and he won't fail a Will save and blow up a party member like the Alchemist.
I have a Rogue3/Fighter 5 that uses TWF. I dig it. Adds flavor to your character and can increase saves and class skills.
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I reviewed the Monktopus....first thing I saw is his feats....Dragon style at level 1 is impossible without retraining. Same goes for the 3rd level feat Dragon ferocity. So if he can't qualify for them so early how does he get them? The build seems cool and all but the feat progression just seems really off to me.
Cool concept tho.
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The build seems cool and all but the feat progression just seems really off to me.
Master of Many Styles ignores prerequisites for style feats.
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Ahh did not catch the master of many styles.
even still I would not want to level that monstrosity. Taking feats like weapon focus tentacle and not being able to shape-change for another 4 levels. To be honest it will be a weak build till you reach level 7. cool concept...just going to be hard to get there without being killed.
I love multiclassing! Normally I GM, but as a player I've only ever done two PCs as single-class (one was a Sorcerer, and the other was a fighter), whereas I've done plenty of multiclass.
...Admittedly I've had one or two characters planned for multiclass who died or reached a premature campaign end before taking their second class, but I count those as multiclass since they were intended to be multiclass.
Well, either you think you're gonna make it to level 20 or not. If you do think so, then multiclassing means you don't get the capstone, which in some classes is pretty sweet.
It's also usually a bad idea for spellcasters.
Sometimes you can take a level of a class and think the abilities of that multiclass are great, then realize 4 levels later they have fallen behind so much are nigh worthless.
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Well, either you think you're gonna make it to level 20 or not. If you do think so, then multiclassing means you don't get the capstone, which in some classes is pretty sweet.
The capstone is a myth. Even if you make it to 20th level, an ability that is only there for less than 5% of your career is not as useful as an increase you can get from multiclassing that will be there for 70% of your career.
The capstone is a myth. Even if you make it to 20th level, an ability that is only there for less than 5% of your career is not as useful as an increase you can get from multiclassing that will be there for 70% of your career.Well, either you think you're gonna make it to level 20 or not. If you do think so, then multiclassing means you don't get the capstone, which in some classes is pretty sweet.
Then why do so many Builds go out to 20? And there is gaming past 20th. Besides there is this thing called Roleplaying.
Not to mention, like I said, many benefits of multiclassing are lost after a few levels.
*Why robots would be trying to fill our your colouring book I don't know.
Oh....[beep] we have our reasons. [boop]
Interesting question.
I have a couple of PFS characters planned out. A fighter who is level 3 that I am probably going to multiclass into monk at level 9. I have an Oracle that currently level 3 and will remain an Oracle throughout his career. I have a level 2 swashbuckler that will multiclass into Magus when he hits level 3. When I do another character I'd like to make a sorcerer that would eventually go into Dragon Disciple.
So I guess I like multiclassing for the most part.
Curious to see what people think about multi-classing in general.
Do you have any characters that have levels in more than one class?
What do you think about it?
*snip*
I generally take a class at level 1 that will give me a lot for a 1 level investment.
Any class that is melee gets a level of fighter (If I'm not playing a fighter), my Oradin has 1 level of Life Oracle with Magical Knack.
A sorcerer I am building has one level of Rogue to give me a bunch of unlocked skills.
I know that this will leave me a level behind on spellcasting and other features, but I don't really care. I play characters that I find fun, flaws and all.
Were I actually ever given the chance to get to level 20 I may consider going single class, but it's not happened in any games I have played over the last couple years.
Summed Up: Multi- Classing is fine as long as you accept the negatives along with the positives.
My melee alchemist has two levels in barbarian for rage and gore attack.
I've only played two multiclass characters in recent memory. One was a Gunslinger/Paladin (Holy Gun) and the other was a Ranger/Fighter who only took fighter levels to speed up the feats he wanted.
Prior to Pathfinder I would nearly always take a couple levels of rogue with whatever I was playing for sneak attack and evasion. These days though I prefer to stick to single class characters.
I think there are a few ways to look at it. We tend to end up by 11th because high level play is so different. In that context it becomes a choice between mid level class features (full casters, barbarians), more low level class features, or trying to get early enough entry into a prestige class to get anything out of it. I see plenty of single class characters, and most of the multiclass ones are rogue concepts who don't want to suck.
I am running my first multiclass character, though most of his multiclass choices will probably be made obsolite when the bloodrager comes out. In the end, he should be a silver dragon sorcerer 12 / paladin 2 / nature oracle 1 / dragon disciple 4. Also mythic guardian/archmage with the ability to use his caster level as his BAB while polymorphed. Will have very good attack power, and adds his charisma to pretty much every one of his stats.
I have a suli summoner who just reached level 5. He and his eidolon play as flanking buddies. I was tempted to multiclass when he leveled up, but it's hard to forgo that bump up to the next level of summon monster and to pass on evolving the eidolon. That said, he is one of the more powerful members of the party, and our GM isn't super brutal. Therefore, even though multiclassing will likely make him less powerful than just sticking with summoner levels, I am not worried that it would hurt too bad.
So for a flanking buddy type summoner, what level dips might be fun/interesting? My GM is really interested in firearms, so a gunslinger dip might be cool. I would also like to give him a big boost in skills.
As a player I've been to levels 16-19 probably half a dozen times, and we did have one 3.5 game where the highest level PCs (including mine) reached 24th level.
As a DM I usually start out strong but lose direction somewhere between levels 12-16. I do have one campaign at 16th level which is about to start up again after a hiatus though.
@Slamron - If you take 2 levels of Barbarian and the Ferocious Mount rage power you can make your eidolon rage. I've seen such a character in play, and she is quite effective. Be sure to save some feats for Raging Vitality and Extra Rage though.