White Dragon

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I don't know about GMing, but I have watch so many lose their lives, I channel that grief into hatred toward Gods in my character. Maybe you can do that with your villain? Just a good person who cared and lost so much, slashing back at the world?


CrystalSeas wrote:
SiuoL wrote:
If you can't even be bother to do that, don't play. Game is not design to please you all the way. That's not game, that is loots feeding. Must mommy feed you everything you want so you are happy all the time?

Not everyone plays the game for your reasons, nor with your world view. It is perfectly valid to have another playstyle, other motivations, and other reasons to spend an evening with your friends.

Disdainful slurs about other people's approach to life and gaming are not appropriate on these boards.

I am sorry, you are perfectly right. However, I don't see my way of gaming is wrong as I did similar campaign for people who have problem with suicide and it gives them the realisation that their live is not bad, I help to learn to understand each others through roleplaying and gave the motivation to live. Because they know that to gain something truly great, you must face hardship. And I never have them back for my help. Return to society and working towards what they aiming towards and understand good things takes time.

Of course I don't expect you to understand how much change this would put on the players, and I assume all GM will talk to their players first to see if it's cool for them to take this mechanic away for something greater. I shouldn't all GM do that as to me, this is the basic. And of course I don't expect you to even care about how that campaign I suggest would be great to, make people have feelings, to roleplay, to care for each others and themselves. After all, I just assume all players are friends. I just assume GM and the game will bond them together. But with my experience, I help a person to get out of his comfort zone and roleplay, and be who what he cannot be and feel it for the first time. He realized he could change, to be better. And that, I would like to share with others here. Maybe something similar like what I suggested, would bring feelings and good changes to not only you game, but you and your players.


Lady-J wrote:
SiuoL wrote:
It is not forced. It is encouraging. The player will be perfectly find if the player still refused to roleplay. Sometime, a test of character is based on one's action, not acting skills... Good GM should know when to take away what's most important to the player and character as one, then give it back to them so it feels special. You want to keep your players on hook and beg to you play more. You want your players to keep investing into the story because in your world, they feel special, not just as someone that do a thing very well, but you make them feel special by allowing them to see that their passion means something. Everyone is passionate in something, even being lazy takes commitment. As a GM, I can make any player and any character feel special and see how special each others are, then work together as one despite their differences, because that's one of my job. To maximise their fun, and there are no fun greater than knowing your actions and team efforts can change the world, not only in game, but all multiverse. That's why no one can be the Many that are One.
if you are removing what they love doing in the campaign ie making crafting complete garbage just cuz you hand waved that the crafting god is dead or some bullchit reason like that and rail road them into a position were if they want to get back the thing they like then they got to do things your way then yes its forcing them into a position of stay in a campaign they probably wont enjoy anymore or leave the game

Modern human, only care for instant gratification. You love something, you work hard to get it. If I play a fighter, I work hard to fight against the impossible against magic. If I play a rogue, I out smart my opponent no matter what. If I play a caster, I won't get my limited spell slot stop me. If you truly love something, work for it. That's why so many people get paid more while doing nothing. That's why people like me work day and night, seven days, doing 10 times more work and still don't get as much pay, because people whining about what they should have without working for it. I work for everything I earn with more work than anyone. I smashed a character with 10 times more magical items than myself while way more optimised than me. Because I work hard. I play a fighter, I learn all tactics in human history and invent my own. I play caster, I use magic at perfect timing and control the flow of all thing. I play craftman, I respect what is happening to the world and make the most out of it. Plan, calculate, explore. If crafting magical item doesn't work, what about engineering? I don't stop, never stop. If I can't do it, I will join force with others. Because if you care for something, you do whatever it takes. If you can't even be bother to do that, don't play. Game is not design to please you all the way. That's not game, that is loots feeding. Must mommy feed you everything you want so you are happy all the time? No, I was born with no help. I suffer abuse everything in my childhood while I study to change my life. When I get beaten up for doing well as school, I learn to fight. When I get bashed with a back of a cleaver, I learn to eat more and tank it. Then when I'm out of this nightmare, I made sure no one touches my children. I don't get fed with happiness like you modern human. I'm draconic, I'm worthy. I do what I need to get what I want. Why should you or anyone else be different?


Lady-J wrote:
SiuoL wrote:

Torag is dead. All crafting cost full price (double material, longer time...) All crafting check will be another +10 to DC, materials will become wasted easily so there will be higher demand, less material will be available. Blacksmiths and Clerics inform party that Torag is gone and needs reviving. Unless someone find a way to revive Torag, it will forever stay this way. He will have no choice go with party.

Twist, as party quest to revive Torag, everyone wants to be the hero to revive Torag. Get into fight with many along the way. Finally, got to Torag's Altar. Can't revive Torag. Investigate, Torag was eaten by a monster beyond God, known as the Many that are One. Look just like a person/ tiefling/ angel. With many wings and halo, tail or a chromatic dragon. It gains power from those that fallen around it, and became one with it. The angel and demons all joined force to aid their Gods fighting this thing. All it does is to end Gods. Nothing could stand in its way.

Twist, twist. Team meet Many that are One. It is kind, it informs party that Gods are not worthy of their power, and Torag can't be revive. There are only two ways to bring back Torag, to end the Many that are One. Or become an inheritor of Torag by become worthy in the eyes of Many that are One.

Choice 1- If party fights Many that are One, it will ask the party to at least allow him to complete his quest. To end all gods. In return, it will see if they are worthy. If the party attack, Many that are One will end the party. As they are dead, they will become one with the Many that are One, and see all within it. The pain, the suffering. The party will reborn within the Many that are One. It will ask, will you aid me? Yes, party go on epic god slaying adventure with new powers. No, return to the world, unwanted by it. Trying to survive as the world falls apart as the greed of men ruined the world. Killing each others over materials and items.

Choice 2- Become worthy inheritor. The party enters the Many that are

...

It is not forced. It is encouraging. The player will be perfectly find if the player still refused to roleplay. Sometime, a test of character is based on one's action, not acting skills... Good GM should know when to take away what's most important to the player and character as one, then give it back to them so it feels special. You want to keep your players on hook and beg to you play more. You want your players to keep investing into the story because in your world, they feel special, not just as someone that do a thing very well, but you make them feel special by allowing them to see that their passion means something. Everyone is passionate in something, even being lazy takes commitment. As a GM, I can make any player and any character feel special and see how special each others are, then work together as one despite their differences, because that's one of my job. To maximise their fun, and there are no fun greater than knowing your actions and team efforts can change the world, not only in game, but all multiverse. That's why no one can be the Many that are One.


Torag is dead. All crafting cost full price (double material, longer time...) All crafting check will be another +10 to DC, materials will become wasted easily so there will be higher demand, less material will be available. Blacksmiths and Clerics inform party that Torag is gone and needs reviving. Unless someone find a way to revive Torag, it will forever stay this way. He will have no choice go with party.

Twist, as party quest to revive Torag, everyone wants to be the hero to revive Torag. Get into fight with many along the way. Finally, got to Torag's Altar. Can't revive Torag. Investigate, Torag was eaten by a monster beyond God, known as the Many that are One. Look just like a person/ tiefling/ angel. With many wings and halo, tail or a chromatic dragon. It gains power from those that fallen around it, and became one with it. The angel and demons all joined force to aid their Gods fighting this thing. All it does is to end Gods. Nothing could stand in its way.

Twist, twist. Team meet Many that are One. It is kind, it informs party that Gods are not worthy of their power, and Torag can't be revive. There are only two ways to bring back Torag, to end the Many that are One. Or become an inheritor of Torag by become worthy in the eyes of Many that are One.

Choice 1- If party fights Many that are One, it will ask the party to at least allow him to complete his quest. To end all gods. In return, it will see if they are worthy. If the party attack, Many that are One will end the party. As they are dead, they will become one with the Many that are One, and see all within it. The pain, the suffering. The party will reborn within the Many that are One. It will ask, will you aid me? Yes, party go on epic god slaying adventure with new powers. No, return to the world, unwanted by it. Trying to survive as the world falls apart as the greed of men ruined the world. Killing each others over materials and items.

Choice 2- Become worthy inheritor. The party enters the Many that are One and found Torag and other Gods. Many that are One ask the party to choose the God they wish to become an inheritor of. After that, party will go through challenges of each God to prove they are worthy. It will be more than a test of skills and powers, but also a test of characters and souls. If a character failed, he stays within the Many that are One for eternity(Lie). The other that passed may choose to leave that member and keep their power(No power will be given. Many that are One value friendships and teamwork. Team be All for one, one for all, it they are to be worthy), or to give up their power to save that friend. If they abandon friends, remain party will reject into the world and have to survive with what's to come. If party attempted to save friends, everyone gain powers and become inheritor of their gods.

After adventure, Many that are One continues its to end all Gods. Eventually, either the party became worthy as inheritor of Gods and fixed all problem in the world. Or others will become worthy and fix all problems. The party will either survive long enough to see it through, or die trying.

Tips, ask players ''How do you feel?'' After each event. Follow by '' What would you like to say to the team?'' Likely respond for first event, ''This is bulls***'', follow by ''We have to f**king do this, now!''. Following events will have vary responds depends of the GM's performance. However, it should encourage one's desire to roleplay when done right.


Resonating +1 [Mythic] only works on armor. Also what short of shield are you after, what kind of character? Tower shield for max defensive, heavy shield for bashing? Or buckler for against ambush?


MrRetsej wrote:

A few notes to your notes, SiuoL;

Adamantine is also the most effective way of dealing with many Golems and their DR/Adamantine.

Alchemical Silver is not limited to Piercing/Slashing weapons. It can totally be applied to Bludgeoning weapons, it just suffers the -1 damage to P/S.

Blightburn can be utilized by Blightburner Kineticists. It's kind of the point of the material appearing opposite the archetype in the same book...

Fire-Forged Steel Spiked gauntlets or a Cestus combined with a Shirt of Immolation on a grapple-specialized Monk or Brawler would pair well.

Noqual is basically Mithral that provides a +2 Save Vs Spells when used in armor for a whole lot more gold. Not particularly worth it to buy, but maybe a cool flavor piece to hand out to players when you GM?

As for Adamantine. I totally agree.

Alchemical Silver is correct. Problem with reading other people's post is that you sometime get mislead.

Blightburn: Yes, that's the point. Too bad no other classes can do that 60ft away.

Fire-Forged Steel, that combo is a bit expensive for my taste, but it's one of the most effective ways to use the material.

Nogual: I would advise all the none spell caster who wears armor to use this. But this post is about weapon so I didn't add that.


A cracked Pale Green Prism (Ioun Stone) gives you +1 circumstance bonus on attack for 4000gp flat that works regardless what weapon you hold. It's a far better choice than spending it on a weapon that you might not get to use. General rules, you only invest damage on weapon, anything else can be done with other items or with enchantments. Bypass DR count as damage in investment terms.


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Abysium:

Abysium: useless as a weapon because it gives no benefit. However, can be use to sicken enemy if you got swallowed whole, at the cost of being sicken yourself. So only use it if you are immune to poison. Also can use it as a gift weapon, makes the receiver sicken.

Adamantine:

Adamantine: ignore hardness that is less than 20 when sundering. Also a +1 enchantment bonus to hit, but it doesn't stack with your weapon enchantment bonus, I think.

Alchemical Silver:

Alchemical Silver: Cheap way to bypass DR/Silver. However, -1 to damage and only works on slashing or piercing weapon. The cost of -1 damage might seems deep, but the DR you can bypass is worthwhile for its price.

Blightburn:

Blightburn: Unless you are a Fire Elemental Construct or you can telepathically wield it more than 60 ft away from it, don't. Otherwise, it's the most powerful material you can have for weapon. After all, you can't DR, fire damage, nor can you SR the drain from its radiation.

Blood Crystal:

Blood Crystal: +1 non-typed damage against bleeding enemies. If you have a way to make enemies bleed like bleeding critical, as well as having high crit range, I guess +1500gp is not bad for what it can do. Weapon is for killing, quicker the better.

Caphorite:

Caphorite: You are only allow to make ammunition with this material, which sucks. That doesn't mean the material itself is no good. Any nonmagical light in a 10-foot radius is immediately extinguished, while spells of 2nd level or lower with the light descriptor are rendered inactive for 1d4+1 rounds. Perfect to ambush anything that require light to see. If you are Dhampir or anything similar, it doesn't hurts to keep one. As it gives you 1d4+1 round ignoring level 2 or lower light spell in a 10 ft radius. You can use it to start a fight from a distance, then quickly sneak in for melee. A rogue would like that.

Cold Iron:

Cold Iron: Double the price to bypass DR/Cold Iron is not bad for starters. You don't have to deal with -1 damage like Alchemical Silver, but it does take +2000gp to enchant. However, it will not be something that you have to worry about since You only need +3 weapon to bypass DR as both Cold Iron and silver, it makes more sense to invest into a weapon with other material and just keep it as back up weapon till you get a +3 weapon.

Darkwood:

Darkwood: Add 10gp for +1 to hit and half the weapon's weight? Why not? Too bad that it only works for weapon fulling made out of wood, like club or quarterstaff. Still not bad for a starter weapons. Always keep a club or a quarterstaff will only give you options, especially in low levels.

Elysian Bronze:

Elysian Bronze: +1 weapon against magical beasts and monstrous humanoids for a price of 1000gp. The best part is that it stacks with weapon enchantment. So it is a must have if you know you will be fighting magical beasts and monstrous humanoids a lot.

Fire-Forged Steel:

Fire-Forged Steel: +1d4 fire damage to attacks for 2 round after 'exposed' to at least 10 point of fire damage. Increase to 1d6 if you wear Fire-Forged Steel armor. So it's good if you are fighting against something that deal fire damage but also can be hurt by fire damage, like Alchemist. But really not that great.

Frost-Forged Steel:

Frost-Forged Steel: Like Fire-Forged Steel, but less useful as weapon. Most things that deal cold damage would already have resistance to cold. On top of that, you will need to be in cold places to expose your weapon to enough cold damage for it to work, which all the things there would already have cold resistance from them to be there, so really no point get it. If you are crazy enough, enchant a gauntlet with +1 frost,use it to power your Frost-Forged Steel. Same could be done to Fire-Forged Steel weapon, but really no point other than for style.

Glaucite:

Glaucite: Just like steel, but cost three times more and 50% heavier. Weight in pathfinder doesn't give you any benefit even if you fall onto someone. You don't deal more damage with more weight crushing a person as you would with a wine bottle. So really no point. But fluff-wise, you are showing off your god like craftsmanship if you swinging this thing around, so I doubt anyone would question your ability in crafting, or to hire someone that can craft.

Greenwood:

Greenwood: Greenwood items take only one-quarter damage from fire, so that is good for wood weapon in general. The main dish of this deal is that it can heal itself. 1 hp per hour when damp and in contact with fertile soil. If it is broken, it get fixed in an hour. So as long as you give it a hour, you are good to keep fighting, don't have to spend gold to fix that weapon anymore. Like Darkwood, it only works for weapon fulling made out of wood.

Horacalcum:

Horacalcum: +6000gp for a +1 to hit and a little bit more hit point on the weapon is simply not worth it. Also doesn't work as ammo. So unless you really need that +1 circumstance bonus on attack, don't waste your gold. Wish it was just as good as it would be as armor.

Inubrix:

Inubrix: +5000gp, deal damage one size smaller and always treat as broken, why would people want that? Well, Brilliant Energy against iron and steel for which would cost at least 50000gp. You have to weight your options. If a rogue wants to land his sneak attacks against someone with full plate, this is your material. It will worth your gold since you will fully relying on your sneak attack dice instead of your weapon dice.

Living Steel:

Living Steel: It repairs itself 2 hit points per day, or 1 hit point per day if it has the broken condition. Not as much as Greenwood, but doesn't need to do anything to it. Also can be apply to more weapons. At the cost of +500gp.

Mithral:

Mithral: Great as armor, not great as weapon. Count as silver weapon to bypass DR without the -1 damage like Alchemical Silver. Mind you, though, weapon of Mithral weight have as much, and it only cost +500 gp/lb. Weight your options, I, personally, would go for Alchemical Silver as weapon over Mithral.

Nexavaran Steel:

Nexavaran Steel: Cheap Cold Iron that cost only +50% of the weapon's cost, instead of double like Cold Iron. Cost +3000gp to enchant instead of +2000gp like Cold Iron. Since it's obviously for starting weapon, I would choose Nexavaran Steel over Cold Iron anytime.

Noqual:

Nexavaran Steel: +1 enchantment bonus to damage against constructs and undead created by feats or spells. I'm not sure if it stacks with weapon enchantment bonus. I don't think it does, but someone can let me know otherwise. That's not all Noqual can offer though, it has +4 bonus on any saving throw made against a magical source. So if someone tries to cast break on your weapon, you are in a better place.

Siccatite:

Siccatite: +1 fire or cold damage on attack, but also deal 1 of that type of damage to you each round. So it's good if you have a little bit of fire or cold resistance. Also you don't have to deal with all the trouble like Fire/Frost-Forged Steel, while you deal much less damage while taking damage at the same time. Tiefling might want those since they have the resistance.

Silversheen:

Silversheen: Alchemical silver that is immune to rust? Why won't you get it? If you have the gold, I would get it over Alchemical Silver. Unlike Alchemical Silver, I would invest enchantment on Silversheen since you get immunity to rust with a cost much lower than adding Rusting weapon ability. But before you choose this as your main weapon, wait. Keep reading.

Singing Steel:

Singing Steel: Bard weapon. Want an axe guitar for your bard? Here it is. If you are not Bardic performing, just don't get it.

Sunsilver:

Sunsilver: So Silversheen is a good early mid level material then? What if I tell you that you can get it for cheaper? Sunsilver will do the trick. Do all the same things but only 25gp per pound on top of masterwork. Better than +750gp flat.

Viridium:

Viridium: Give contract leprosy (Fortitude DC 12 negates) on hit. Give greenblood oil (Fortitude DC 13 negates) on crit. All with the cost of +200gp. But the DC is low and you will also have to make save just carrying it. So unless you have a extradimensional space or a scabbard lined with lead, just not worth it to me.

Voidglass:

Voidglass: +1 damage to slashing or piercing weapon, flat. It worth every piece of that 1,000 gp. As weapon goes, it might be the one you would settle with in late game as your main weapon.


How I did my was having them roll stats one Session 1. I told them there were on an island and have different tasks to do as a group. They have to roll 4d6 and drop the lowest to determine how well they do in each task. If they don't like the result, they get to re-roll, but each player only get to reroll twice and must take the re roll even if it's lower. It was fun for them because it wasn't just rolling for stats, they were actually doing things on the island. They felt like they didn't waste their time rolling stats, instead they are already in the world doing things.


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What I would do would either splitting the group in two and have one group playing at each session. Or what I did was splitting the group in 3. 4 players in each group. Each group will have a leader/assistance GM. You concentrate each group, the leader tend to the players. The three group hardly every have encounters together. At most you will have two groups join force. The other group doing other things. Let the leader make other players feel special by role-playing with them. At the end of every chapter, there will be a boss fight, that's where I bring all three groups together for an epic battle. To win those battle, each group has to work out their role in such battle. Three or more objectives will be presented and each failure will make the encounter harder.

Also I always make my players write me an email about that their character did in the last session and have the leaders keep track of what their team did, gain and lost. Then I read it over the week so I may prepare for the next session. We had a scouting group with druid, rogue, ranger and zen archer. Then a face group with Paladin, Cleric, wizard, bard. Also a muscle group of Bloodrager, Two handed fighter, cavalier and warpriest. Sometime they swap members, but mostly back to their own group. All I had to remember was what each groups do, what is the team goal and what the players want in each group. The muscle group just wanted to kill, so I had them fight a lot. The scout group loves exploring and puzzles, face group loves to role-play and politics. It was easy once you got them what the want and change once in awhile.


Hmm. Let's look at it this way. For normal proper sneak attack with a knife. You sneak behind the person and cut this throat, it is a vital spot so you deal extra damage, that's sneak attack.

As for fireball. It's like throwing molotov at a person. Doesn't matter if they are aware or not, you hit close enough, everything's on fire. Sneak or not, makes no different damage wise. You can cut people's throat with fire that you can't control completely, nor you can stab people with fire. If you argue that it will deal more damage because the target can dodge, that's what the reflex saves for.


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Whenever someone in the party that is more power than the others in my game. I either give other players unique items that only they can use, and those items can do things that the OP character can't do. I find fair and fun is very important for my games, so I tend to balance my games perfectly and precisely all the time. If a player has the spotlight for couple of session, I will make sure others get some. Druid feel useless, make an encounter where you need create water or you will die very soon. Always work for me, and my players always have good times.


No, mythic lunge said nothing about letting you use lunge for AoOs. It just said you get +2 to hit on AoOs while your lunge still in effect, which is until your next turn. Lunge is not that powerful compare to enlarge person because it does not give stats boost, no boost on CMB and CMD, also you don't get to use your reach once you end your turn. Yes, Enlarge person is a spell, supposed to be more powerful for some strange reasons, maybe because it's has duration and limited use per day, still, no GM will make you fight all day long. Anyway Feat should be at less just as strong if not better than a level one spell. With spell, you get flexibility over consistency, so it should not be more powerful. However, some would say it's magic, it doesn't have to be balance. Which I disagree, but that will be on another topic...

Monkey lunge doesn't seem to function as it took no action to use lunge, so why would one use a standard action to use lunge on one attack just to keep +2AC?

Mythic Lunge works fine as if you hit, you don't lose AC against that target. And if you use mythic points, you don't lose AC against your targets regardless you hit or not. However, mythic Lunge is a waste of Mythic feat. As mythic as you are, you shouldn't take any AC penalties with lunge at all, and you should be able to use your reach for till the rest of your turn. I suppose to feel more powerful with each mythic points I take, not just the same with minor bonus that potentially worst than a normal feat.


May I just add this, all Paizo has to do is change all spells with the word "humanoid" to either "person", which means any person, or "creature with humanoid type". Now if the spell is clear about its target has to be certain type. Why naming the spell Charm Person when it only works on "humanoid"? People will simply look for the type instead argue about if they are humanoid, because in most case, they are arguing for the purpose of determine rather a spell will work on Tieflings and other outsider or not. So just make it simple that the spell is targeting certain type like the weapon special ability Bane. Seriously, I understand why the designers in Pazio are not good at balancing Pathfinder, because it came from D&D and some of them possibly didn't study about game design as they just took D&D and improve it as well as refine it from experience of D&D. However, the writers and the producer should had checked to make sure the writing is clear. If it target certain type of creature, say it. If it targets person in general, say person, not humanoid.


Unless you have the trait, don't not pick enlarge person. It doesn't work on you because are you outsider. I'm still trying to find a way to use enlarge person on my Tiefling bloodrager, so far only way is to use magic device. So my spell is no good.


For early levels, I found reach weapon is pretty good with power attack and Combat Reflex. I killed many things with AoOs at early levels. Especially if you can rage. Your damage output should be pretty good, so with a Reach weapon, hardly anything can get to you at early levels. You shouldn't have to worry about AC other than fighting against ranged attacks. Which you should hard dropped prone and hide behind covers. Don't worry about armor so much, it's you or your team's tactic needs improve. Like if you have rogue should had worked out what you guess will have to fight against and planned ahead, etc. I played NPC expert class and I still can fight fairly well on front line with little armor, so Barbarian shouldn't have problems as you can drop enemies far quicker than any other melee classes at first level.


Can you put breaking on ranged weapon?


Depends if you use aid another a lot like I did, otherwise do consider Gloves of Arcane Strike. But arcane strike works best with bloodrager with mythic vital strike, not as much for magus.


You see, not all GM knows how to deal with characters that do similar things and one is way better than another. There are many ways to keep each one of you the same build and same characters, but still have as much fun as you should for everyone in and out of combat. Magical items, companions, establish a decent part of the story to explain why this weak character is just as important in the group as others despite being far weaker. So many ways! At the end of the day, as long as the game is fair and fun, that's all that matter!


Yes, I feel the same way. The game should be call Pathfinder, just PowerCaster. Only way to win is to play caster.


Wow! Pazio is following Wizard's footstep, trying to ruin Pathfinder from the core. Wow... I'm speechless.


I know Pathfinder is always bad in balancing things between martial and magic because it came from D&D, but it is very silly to take away the most useful bit of Courageous weapon. I didn't get to finish my study in game design, but even I know the basics of balancing abilities. I think it's going to get messier and messier...

Courageous is fine the way it was because it will take a lot of effort to find all those morale bonus to make it really powerful. And if you have gone through the effort and teamwork to make it work, you deserve to swing your courageous weapon with very deadly blows. After all, Courageous weapon is the only weapon ability in Pathfinder that screams HERO. Nerfing it means we don't need hero in the game. No one would pick courageous with it nerfed just like no one liked Fighter's bravery. It sounded cool, but does almost nothing. I know Barbarian and Paladin might be very "OP" when they have a Courageous weapon, then that's because no designer DESIGN something with fighter in mind other than Transformative. Say if Fighter's Bravery has changed to Heroism instead. I think the old courageous might be a bit too powerful because most full BAB classes can use them well. However, it should not be nerf. Make it a +2 bonus instead. Just very basics of game design, first day you go to class, they will ask you what is the most important thing about game design. Very basic, fair and fun.


alexd1976 wrote:
SiuoL wrote:

Mythic vital strike doesn't allow one to make multiple attacks with vital strike though. It allows one to multiply other damage bonus that would multiply normally in a critical hit with Vital Strike.

lvl20 Bloodrager with Mythic Vital Strike, Mythic Spell Casting, Mythic Enlarge Person. +5 Transformative Impact Furious Courageous Nodachi that transform into Large Baster Sword. Make it foe-biting. Arcane Strike. Furious Finish. Mythic Power Attack. Indominable(Immune to fatigue).

Large Impact Baster Sword = 3d8, Mythic Enlarge person = 6d8
Mythic Vital Strike> Furious Finish, weapon= 4x 6d8 = 24d8= 192
Mythic Vital Strike> Arcane Strike = 4x5=20
Mythic Vital Strike> Mythic Power Attack= 4x(6x3x1.5)=4x27 =108
Mythic Vital Strike> Strength(+10)=4x((10+2*+7#)x1.5)=4x28 =112
*(Mythic Enlarge Person), #(Furious Courageous)
Mythic Vital Strike> Enchantment Bouns= 4x7#= 28
Sub Total= 192+20+108+112+28= 460
Foe Biting Total = 920, No rolling for damage.

Now that is just with magical weapon alone, with no other magical items. That's how you would use mythic vital strike, so I don't understand how you will be able to deal over 2000 damage with more than one vital strike in one round.

Ah, but mythic rules allow for an extra standard action, which you can use for Vital Strike, so you could feasibly do two of them.

You mean Amazing Initiative? You can only use this once per round though, so where did the third Vital Strike came from?


Mythic vital strike doesn't allow one to make multiple attacks with vital strike though. It allows one to multiply other damage bonus that would multiply normally in a critical hit with Vital Strike.

lvl20 Bloodrager with Mythic Vital Strike, Mythic Spell Casting, Mythic Enlarge Person. +5 Transformative Impact Furious Courageous Nodachi that transform into Large Baster Sword. Make it foe-biting. Arcane Strike. Furious Finish. Mythic Power Attack. Indominable(Immune to fatigue).

Large Impact Baster Sword = 3d8, Mythic Enlarge person = 6d8
Mythic Vital Strike> Furious Finish, weapon= 4x 6d8 = 24d8= 192
Mythic Vital Strike> Arcane Strike = 4x5=20
Mythic Vital Strike> Mythic Power Attack= 4x(6x3x1.5)=4x27 =108
Mythic Vital Strike> Strength(+10)=4x((10+2*+7#)x1.5)=4x28 =112
*(Mythic Enlarge Person), #(Furious Courageous)
Mythic Vital Strike> Enchantment Bouns= 4x7#= 28
Sub Total= 192+20+108+112+28= 460
Foe Biting Total = 920, No rolling for damage.

Now that is just with magical weapon alone, with no other magical items. That's how you would use mythic vital strike, so I don't understand how you will be able to deal over 2000 damage with more than one vital strike in one round.


Avoron wrote:

Here's a build that is absolutely ridiculous and would never, ever be used in an actual game.

But hey, that's why we're here.
Blood of Angels wrote:
Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common....It should be noted that while any creature that breeds with a celestial may give birth to half-celestial offspring, only humanoids can give birth to aasimars....Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic.

The following aasimar character is descended from rune giants, and therefore has a starting size of gargantuan, increased to colossal by permanencied enlarge person.

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

Sorry, I don't get it. How did you do over 2000 damage in one round using Vital Strike tree? You can only use one Vital Strike per round so I don't get it.


Hm. I think Called weapon would help. Free action to drop, standard action to cast, swift action to call. Done!


I had an Archer Bloodrider who can't move waist down as well, and he has a Wolf for mount. The bloodrider and the wolf has been working together side by side until level 11, when the wolf is large enough to carry the bloodrider. It was very hard, but very beautiful when you have GM that can make it feel so good! The friendship and the bond was very solid and real! You should try it! But since you are going for low Cha, you might want to be Mounted fury barbarian instead.


If there are min-maxed characters in the group and you are not having fun, it's your GM's fault. I had that happened in my group many times, but your GM have to realize that some players either like or need to min-max due to their perception of the game or previous gaming experience. Your GM need to be flexible and have plans for each character that is story driven as well as mechanic driven. How about some decision making that doesn't require dice rolls, spell casting or any abilities? That will drive the story forward while making all the characters have fun. How about combat that requires tactics and team work? I had player playing commoner in my game while everyone else played PC classes, he had fun just as much as everyone in and out of combat. Also it pays to learn your players and their characters, which helped me to plan games for everyone to have fun does matter who and what they play.


Myrryr wrote:

Play a witch. Grab the Numerological Evocation spell, the Coven Hex and a couple bags of holding. Using the fact there are canon quasit witches, and the Abyss is defined as infinite, and therefore has infinite demons, and therefore infinite quasit lvl 1 witches, stuff millions of quasits into your portable holes/bags of holding. Now stick a hand in it or a foot or a tail or w/e and you've got a boost to your CL in the millions. Numerological evocation has no CL damage cap.

Cast spell, proceed to do several million d6's worth of damage.

For numerological Evocation spell, "No matter how many creatures you are eligible to affect, no two affected creatures can be more than 15 feet apart". quasit witches takes up squares, so you get about 16 witches to be affected by the spell.


lvl20 Bloodrager with Mythic Vital Strike, Mythic Spell Casting, Mythic Enlarge Person. +5 Transformative Impact Furious Courageous Nodachi that transform into Large Baster Sword. Make it foe-biting. Arcane Strike. Furious Finish. Mythic Power Attack. Indominable(Immune to fatigue).

Large Impact Baster Sword = 3d8, Mythic Enlarge person = 6d8
Mythic Vital Strike> Furious Finish, weapon= 4x 6d8 = 24d8= 192
Mythic Vital Strike> Arcane Strike = 4x5=20
Mythic Vital Strike> Mythic Power Attack= 4x(6x3x1.5)=4x27 =108
Mythic Vital Strike> Strength(+10)=4x((10+2*+7#)x1.5)=4x28 =112
*(Mythic Enlarge Person), #(Furious Courageous)
Mythic Vital Strike> Enchantment Bouns= 4x7#= 28
Sub Total= 192+20+108+112+28= 460
Foe Biting Total = 920, No rolling for damage.


I think the only restriction for casting while using weapon would be two weapons or a weapon with a shield. You can't cast any spell with Sometic component while having both hands full. You can still cast those spells with a shield, but not with a weapon in the other hand unless you are using Clawhand Shield.


Oh, forgot you playing PFS... My bad... Well, all I can see you can do is getting a belt for Dex and tome for Dex. +2 belt of Dex cost around 2000gp I think.


I don't know... Like Drogos said, in an average game with an average group and an average GM, you hardly need to use AoOs that much.

However, in an epic game with an epic group and an epic GM, things might be different. When a GM would go through a painfully long encounter by throwing countless creatures against you, or your epic team of fighters has some chain trip/bullrush tactic team build going on, it's when you need that many AoOs.

Only way I can think of would be Combat Reflex, Mythic. It allows reach fighter to enter the realm of god on the battle field against armies as he can kill countless as long as it is on a difficult terrain and have protection against range attacks.


I like your idea of make use vital Strike, but to optimizing Vital Strike, bloodrager is one of the best choice. Blooded Arcane Strike make Arcane Strike works with Vital Strike, also Furious Finish it what make Vital Strike works. If your Vital Strike doesn't deal over 150 damage, it's no good.


For expert, I made this bluff, stealth, escape artist-ish character with high str and dex that focus on either stealth grapple or sniping with Stingchuck. It was not bad I think


i guess you can do that, but I don't see why would one prefer unchained rage over normal rage. Normal rage gives strength, which is better than attack and damage bonus if you are using two hands or dragon bites. Also you can hardly find Morale bonus to Strength through items or spells while you get plenty spells and items that gives you morale bonus on attack and damage.


Personally I wouldn't make him unchained barbarian. You lose +2 damage from not having morale bonus in strength, also you don't get to stack other source of morale bonus on attack and damage rolls when you rage.

Secondly I would use a +5 Transformative, Courageous, Furious, Impact, Ghost Touch Greatsword and had it become a Large Bastard Sword so you deal 2d8 weapon damage which goes to 3d8 because of Impact. Then with Furious Finish and greater vital strike, you get to run in to battle, take some minor hits and kill things with one hit like Guts. 12*8 = 96 weapon damage alone.

I just wish Vital Strike works with Sweeping Strike in Mythic. Then you can do the Guts' sweeping kill thing. Even with just Cleave it will still be good.

Also take quick draws. FOr his other weapons


How I see it is that Pathfinder lack the feats, magical items and enchantment special abilities for weapon and armors to make those fun idea shine as bright as they should


You see, knowing is half the battle. Give them some advantage for knowing things like what those giants are, weakness, strength and other detail will give a place for that non combative PC. In real world, not everyone in an adventure group can fight. Some of them are just scholars or merchants. Do they always get killed? No, as GM/Gods of your world. You have to decide does everything has to be killed/is combat the only way to kill? Last session, the sorcerer in my group killed the entire encounter with countless of creature by just talking. His words were strong and clever enough to kill infinite amount of spawns. So it's really up to the GM. My GM was surprised too, but he decided this works with that encounter. I think you should try to do that as well. Not all encounters ends with killing in combat.


Yes, they need to be some what equal for both type of players to have fun! No fun when you can't hit anything when your casters blast them all by the time you get there for 5 encounters. And when you do get to them you either got charm or something nasty happen to you.

Do we have to change class features for martials? Not really other than fighter's bravery should be heroism instead and Rogue should be just as skillful as bard in late levels.

Then how we balance them? Magical items! Magical items for martial in pathfinder is very weak compare to what monsters and casters can do. +5 bonus to get 19 Spell Resistance? No thanks... One, they don't stack. Two, at level 19, no caster nor monsters with that much caster level will need to roll at all. And there are things to increase caster levels which not only render this useless, but also boost their casting ability. So why they make it in the first place? Stupidity I suppose.


This does not GIVE you ability to breath in water, but does MAINTAIN your ability to breath in water if you had any to begin with.

"Polymorph Subschool wrote:

If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you MAINTAIN the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. "

I wish it does, but not fair to martial because you get both swim spell and the spell water breathing in just one spell. Water Breathing is level 3 and Animal Aspect only level 2, so no go.


Fighter should had got a passive heroism instead of bravery. Other than that, I think martial are fine. What we need is better magical equipments for martial, not class features. +5 bonus for spell resistance 19 is a joke... Dancing and flying weapon would be able to attack on their own without the character wielding. If they are on the ground, they should as fly as you command them to. Dispel shouldn't be like spell storing, should
just be dispel. You hit or touch something, they dispel. It's okay if we have to adjust the bonus to higher, that's how it should be.


I like a Transformative Crook that turned into a Huge Aklys. 3d6 damage with 20ft range to throw and able to pull back as a move action as well as trip special quality. With Furious Finish, power attack, vital strike mythic and greater vital strike, it's pretty awesome! Along with impact enchantment and mythic enlarge person. I think it's 8d6 damage, which makes =D 192 with weapon damage alone in a single hit.


I have a character that got his bloodline awaken, he was a human fighter, then slowly turned more draconic. Then one day, his asura blood awaken and turned him into a faultspawn tiefling draconic bloodrager. He was raging and steaming a little bit before, but now he got worse as his demon side grown stronger. However, he still care about his friends above all and he will protect lives, especially young ones as much as he can. He would never kill unless he had to, but most the time he got no time to think, so he had to make the call to kill or not to kill. Many times he wished he didn't had to kill, wish he had magic to solve everything, but he is a warrior(bloodrager), killing is all he's good at. So he regrets everyday and try to remember the people he killed as much as he can.

Pick something you would cherish in people or in the world, have your character be passionate about it. Like honor, what is honor to his character? To serve someone who is rightful to rule above all? To make to right choices that are selfless? To protect those you care for? Or level of your swordsmanship? Pick something that makes you feel honor or passion, then rage only when they are being threaten. Honor could be as simple as having a innocent girl fall in love with you while you are nothing but a barbarian who killed many and don't deserve her.

Just remember, honor and passion has no real form, but only to those who can feel them.


I think if some martial focused magical items got improved, it will really help for martial to catch up with caster while keeping them somewhat realistic. Like magical enchantment, spell resistance 19 for +5 bonus is stupid, at should be at least 25-30 spell resistance because one, spell gets crazy at that point. Two, CL 20 doesn't even need to roll for spell resistance 19. Three, there are plenty of spells doesn't require spell resistance check. So I don't know why they set it so low. It's so easy to balance this that I can do it without even have to take a game design course.


Many people told me that don't pick vital strike no matter what. However, as a draconic bloodrager, I found Vital Strike tree, while expensive, works very well with my two handed build. Yes, it's not very optimal, but I hit really hard like a boss in both normal form and dragon form. I can move to my target and still sink them easily. So do consider especially if you are going mythic and have means to enlarge yourself.


If that happens, I will just make a boss that is immune to magic and elemental damage. Only way to kill it is physical combat. It only happened to me once, my players was about to flip the table because they are all magic user pretty much. Until the leader, the Cleric, start buffing the Druid, then the Wizard and the Sorcerer helped. There were two beast ripping the boss to pieces with teamwork and tactics. Normally I will be very kind to casters at level 1, than I get really harsh against magic later on because if they are not smart, don't play casters. So magic hardly ever gets out of hands in my games.


Tyrant of the Harrow Deck. If you have the Vision and Hidden Truth as well because you drew the Cricket of something similar, you can use Vision and Hidden Truth to seek the most powerful being that can erase the Tarrasque completely while you can control now with the Tyrant card. Pick the GM! Control to GM to erase it! Done!


No, staff can't transform into greatsword, it has to be general shape. So nodachi can be either pole arm or heavy blade that is two-handed for a medium creature. For a staff, you can transform it into greatclub or something similar I guess.

For me, I will get it for my bloodrager's nodachi because I'm getting mythic spell casting. With Mythic enlarge person. I get become huge. So if I transform his nodachi into large bustard sword, it deals 2d8. With Mythic enlarge person it becomes two size large, which will be 4d8. Add impact on top, 6d8. Combine with mythic vital strike and furious finish, it's not bad in a single strike. If I want to deal full round attacks, I can always go back to nodachi. Since nodachi and Scythe are both two handed heavy blade, I can transform my nodachi into a scythe if I want to crit really really hard with stocking burst or flaming burst. I can change tactics by transforming my weapon.

For double weapon, it has to transform into similar weapon, so if you put transform in one end, that end can transform into one end of another double weapon I guess. So you can have half of a two-bladed sword on your staff? Yea, it's not worth it for most classes to have this ability, but I believe it doesn't counts towards the enchantment bonus limit on a weapon so that is good.

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