Possible to get the Hellfire Ray spell prior to lvl 11?


Advice


Normally Hellfire Ray is a 6th level spell for arcane and divine classes, which means 11th is the earliest level it can be obtained. Is it possible to get it earlier? I haven't found a way yet.

Failing that, what are some great ways to bolster this spell so it will do the most damage possible when I cast it?

J


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absolutely! There's a guy at the used carriage lot at Abrigail & Thrune who has a special contract with easy down payments that you can sign. Tell them you want the 'hell fire' special 'n "behind tha desk" Carri sent ya - thanks 8^)


Are you interested in that spell in particular?

If the hellfire damage is what you like you can take the improved version of the Planar Infusion feat: Hell to change the fire damage you deal into unholy fire.

Improved Whenever you deal fire damage, you can instead deal hellfire damage (see below). Secondary fires lit by your initial fire attack deal normal fire damage (including burn damage, if such damage occurs)


Just need the Diabolic Book of the Damned. May be able to find a copy at your local Cheliax Book and Soul Exchange. Or order it via Absalom Prime to get it with free next day shipping. I'm sure a GM will be happy to provide it level 1. :)

Book of the Damned wrote:
Three times per day, the tome can be invoked to cast one of the following spells: desecrate, dictum, gate (to summon a hellmouth to Hell only), greater planar binding, hellfire ray, summon monster VII, and unholy blight.


Found a way to obtain Hellfire Ray early, but it either uses a very RAW reading of the cleric's domain ability.

Cleric:

A cleric gains one domain spell slot for each level of cleric spell she can cast, from 1st on up.

So if we manage to cast spells of higher level than the class usually could we gain access to higher level slots.

To do so we use the Heighten Metamagic feat paired with Wyang Spellhunter trait and Magical Lineage trait, this increases the effective level of a level one spell to 3, granting us a third level domain slot.

It's a debated topic if these traits work with Heighten Metamagic but the guy thay wrote them give the greenlight.

It's also a debated topic for some in the Pathfinder community if Heighten Metamagic truly makes a spell a higher level one, but it's a very well enstablished mechanic in DnD 3.5 where it is used to access prestige classes early.

For an extra spell level yu could carry a Djezet for 24 hours.

When used as an additional material component, a dose of djezet increases the effective spell level by 1, which stacks with a heightened spell.

And finally there's the Equipment Trick: Sunrod feat that increases the spell level by 1 for ALL purposes, even those not intended by the developers.

If Hellfire Ray was a spell inside any domain the combo would be over already, but sadly it doesn't seem to be so having high slots is not enough.

We need 1 level dip in Loremaster for the secret feature to take the Secret of Magical Discipline feat, that spell allows us to cast any spell in the game.

Sadly it is only available to a character of 8th level and above because of the skill rank requirement.

The only workaround RAW , if you DM permits it, is being a Wyrwood and taking the Craft Construct feat to add 2HD to the Pc at level 5 and take the prestige class at 6th.

Then if you take the Preferred Spell feat you can chose a single spell and cast it spontaneously by sacrificing another spell slot, this allows you to sacrifice your domain slots for Hellfire Rays.

Quite a convoluted way to achieve what you asked for but maybe it can help you. :)

Dark Archive

Frostfire v3 wrote:

Found a way to obtain Hellfire Ray early, but it either uses a very RAW reading of the cleric's domain ability.

Cleric:

A cleric gains one domain spell slot for each level of cleric spell she can cast, from 1st on up.

So if we manage to cast spells of higher level than the class usually could we gain access to higher level slots.

To do so we use the Heighten Metamagic feat paired with Wyang Spellhunter trait and Magical Lineage trait, this increases the effective level of a level one spell to 3, granting us a third level domain slot.

It's a debated topic if these traits work with Heighten Metamagic but the guy thay wrote them give the greenlight.

It's also a debated topic for some in the Pathfinder community if Heighten Metamagic truly makes a spell a higher level one, but it's a very well enstablished mechanic in DnD 3.5 where it is used to access prestige classes early.

For an extra spell level yu could carry a Djezet for 24 hours.

When used as an additional material component, a dose of djezet increases the effective spell level by 1, which stacks with a heightened spell.

And finally there's the Equipment Trick: Sunrod feat that increases the spell level by 1 for ALL purposes, even those not intended by the developers.

If Hellfire Ray was a spell inside any domain the combo would be over already, but sadly it doesn't seem to be so having high slots is not enough.

We need 1 level dip in Loremaster for the secret feature to take the Secret of Magical Discipline feat, that spell allows us to cast any spell in the game.

Sadly it is only available to a character of 8th level and above because of the skill rank requirement.

The only workaround RAW , if you DM permits it, is being a Wyrwood and taking the Craft Construct feat to add 2HD to the Pc at level 5 and take the prestige class at 6th.

Then if you take the Preferred Spell feat you can chose a single spell and cast it spontaneously by sacrificing another spell slot, this allows you to sacrifice your domain slots...

That's not how ANY OF THAT works


JDawg75 wrote:

Normally Hellfire Ray is a 6th level spell for arcane and divine classes, which means 11th is the earliest level it can be obtained. Is it possible to get it earlier? I haven't found a way yet.

Failing that, what are some great ways to bolster this spell so it will do the most damage possible when I cast it?
J

a standard way is to buy a scroll or wand with the spell on it, add empower(+2) or maximize(+3) spell for damage. Can get a bit pricey.


Azothath wrote:
a standard way is to buy a scroll or wand with the spell on it, add empower(+2) or maximize(+3) spell for damage. Can get a bit pricey.

"A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower."

A level 6 scroll costs 1650gp , so probably not a good choice.

As far as i know, there is no method to let a caster cast something beyond his max spell level other than gaining it as spelllike ability. Alternatively, if your GM allow, then you can use the spell creation rule to make a simple version of hellfire ray, though this could be troublesome


Thank you Name Violation for the in deph explanation.

Luckily the player or the GM are not buond by your opinion.


Frostfire v3 wrote:

Thank you Name Violation for the in deph explanation.

Luckily the player or the GM are not beyond by your opinion.

To be fair that method had so many wrong things written in it that initially I had gave up on even responding.

to start off. there is a very specific FaQ about the traits that decrease metamagic levels and how it work and more so NOT WORK (as in - it can't reduce a 3rd level spell into a 2nd, so even IF the heighened spell WILL turn into a for-real-and-any-purpose-6th-level spell, which he can't cast, it won't be able to get back into 5th).
Next there are very specific rules as to WHEN one gain new spell slots (also has a faq) and more so about how heighten spell work (if you heighten it to level 6 and drop it back to 5 it is a 5th level spell as that is ALL the metamagic does so even if the bullcrap before did work and let you get a higher level spell slot IF that part would have worked, it doesn't count as a 6th level spell anymore).

so what do we have so far?
- Miss understanding how the trait work? -check!
- Miss understanding how one gain new level spell slots? -check!
- Miss understanding how the metamagic feat work? -check!

pretty sure saying: 'That's not how ANY OF THAT works' is point on.

-So yea, thx Name Violation!

good thing you didn't also claim that having high score in his casting ability grant him a bonus spell slot of 6th level which open up his domain spell...

--------------------------------

to the OP question.

the prestige class of a Diabolist (which can be entered as soon as 8th level since it was nurfed, used to be 6th) has a class ability at it's 2nd level (so you can get it by 10th level) which let you channel hellfire through any damaging spell cast up to 1/day per cha modifier (minimum 1). the class also give other perks (but you do damn your soul to hell, minor details..)

Dark Archive

Frostfire v3 wrote:

Thank you Name Violation for the in deph explanation.

Luckily the player or the GM are not buond by your opinion.

Facts, not opinions.

You can play anyway your group is ok with, but what you wrote sure as hell ain't the rules or how they work.


happykj wrote:
Azothath wrote:
a standard way is to buy a scroll or wand with the spell on it, add empower(+2) or maximize(+3) spell for damage. Can get a bit pricey.

"A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower."

A level 6 scroll costs 1650gp , so probably not a good choice.
...

no price requirement given. "pricey" means expensive. Access to a 6th SplLvl spell is expected to be expensive.

Scroll, (Staff), Aritifact, GM sponsored Fiendish contract seem valid methods so far.

Many Home Game GMs ignore RAW SplLvl caps on wands or allow +1 to +2 more, so best to ask. A feat allows the SplLvl cap on potions to go from 3 to 4.

no comment on the crazy propostion posted as it's not valid.

The Exchange

Frostfire v3 wrote:
A whole bunch of stuff that makes absolutely no sense
Quote:

A cleric gains one domain spell slot for each level of cleric spell she can cast, from 1st on up.

So if we manage to cast spells of higher level than the class usually could we gain access to higher level slots.

So you are basically arguing that if a 3rd level cleric with the Equipment Trick: Sunrod feat casts burst of radiance using two doses of djezet and one sunrod as additional components, it would count as casting a 4th level spell? And not just counting as a 4th level spell when taking effect, but just having the potential to do it means that she can cast 4th level cleric spells for purposes of gaining a 4th-level domain slot?

That's not just a misunderstanding of the rules or using twisting words to make something work the way it isn't intended. That's deliberately ignoring how spellcasting works entirely.

Among many, many, things that would break, you could take two levels of wizard and one level of cleric (or vice versa) and just by walking around with one dose of djezet you would "count as being able to cast 2nd level arcane and 2nd level divine spells" and therefore able to take Mystic Theurge as your fourth character level. That's not how it works.

Quote:
To do so we use the Heighten Metamagic feat paired with Wyang Spellhunter trait and Magical Lineage trait, this increases the effective level of a level one spell to 3, granting us a third level domain slot.

I think what you are trying to argue here is that using Heighten (2) on, say, cure light wounds it would count as a third level spell. Which is true. But then you go on to say if you have the Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter traits for cure light wounds it would only take a 1st level slot. Which is also true (leaving aside the debate about whether Heightened would even have an effect in that case). But then you go on to say that it would still count as a third level spell, even though you cast in in a first level slot. Which is definitely not true. It's a first level spell in that case "When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell’s final adjusted level."

Quote:

For an extra spell level yu could carry a Djezet for 24 hours.

When used as an additional material component, a dose of djezet increases the effective spell level by 1, which stacks with a heightened spell.

This is also true (sort of - you actually need one dose per level of the spell you are casting), but has nothing to do with what slot you are casting from, it just makes it take effect at one level higher.

Quote:
And finally there's the Equipment Trick: Sunrod feat that increases the spell level by 1 for ALL purposes, even those not intended by the developers.

I mean, yeah. If the spell has the light descriptor. Don't forget that.

Quote:
A bunch of other stuff that is all entirely based on the misreading of how spell levels work.

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