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At the cost of a dead feat for serveral levels and you loose all of that if you don't perform your obedience for the day.BTW, here is what you gain over 10 levels other then 9 levels in your aligned class and the deific obedience boon as an Evangelist:
2 additional class skills
+2 dodge bonus to ac that is lost anytime you lose your dex bonus to ac
2 bonus languages
+4 on skills without ranks
and Spiritual form, which gives telepathy 100ft, +4 to one stat (untyped), and either wings, gills, or a natural attack, the spiritual form is useable in 1-minute increments for a total of minutes per day equal to character level.
You lose the bonuses from the aligned class too, so if you are a Rogue5/Evangelist10, and you fail to maintain your obedience, you are essentially a Rogue5 with 10 extra hit dice and no extra class abilities.
You lose the bonuses from the aligned class too, so if you are a Rogue5/Evangelist10, and you fail to maintain your obedience, you are essentially a Rogue5 with 10 extra hit dice and no extra class abilities.At the cost of a dead feat for serveral levels and you loose all of that if you don't perform your obedience for the day.BTW, here is what you gain over 10 levels other then 9 levels in your aligned class and the deific obedience boon as an Evangelist:
2 additional class skills
+2 dodge bonus to ac that is lost anytime you lose your dex bonus to ac
2 bonus languages
+4 on skills without ranks
and Spiritual form, which gives telepathy 100ft, +4 to one stat (untyped), and either wings, gills, or a natural attack, the spiritual form is useable in 1-minute increments for a total of minutes per day equal to character level.
Which I think balances it out...if you don't just hand wave the obedience.
Just got my shipping email! SO EXCITED TO DOWNLOAD THIS AHHHHHHHHHH
Apsu gets-
A Feat (Divine Barrier -> Channel energy to protect allies from energy damage), two Traits, a neck-slot magic item, a paragraph of info on the first 'Monster Deities' page, and an entry in the appendix.Dahak gets-
A Feat (Hunter of Dahak -> Increases favored enemy bonus by 2 against metallic dragons), two Traits, a neck-slot magic item, a paragraph of info on the first 'Monster Deities' page, and an entry in the appendix.
Ooo, very interested in seeing these :D
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This deserves to be noted: According to Paizo's FAQ, Evangelist can be entered into as early as 4th level.
These are the requirements for Evangelist:
Alignment: Within one step of chosen deity.
Deity: Must worship a single, specific deity.
Feat: Deific Obedience*
Special: Any one of the following: base attack bonus +5,
5 ranks in any skill other than Knowledge (religion), or
ability to cast 3rd-level spells.
A default Aasimar meets the bolded requirement from their Daylight Spell-like ability, and various class abilities can also fulfill this requirement. Neither of the other two allow for early entry, but early entry into Evangelist would mean gaining the boons at 5th level, 9th level, and 12th level.
How do you get BAB+5 at level 4?
How do you get BAB+5 at level 4?
Any one of the following.
D'oh... <blush>
Creative Director
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This deserves to be noted: According to Paizo's FAQ, Evangelist can be entered into as early as 4th level.
These are the requirements for Evangelist:
Alignment: Within one step of chosen deity.
Deity: Must worship a single, specific deity.
Feat: Deific Obedience*
Special: Any one of the following: base attack bonus +5,
5 ranks in any skill other than Knowledge (religion), or
ability to cast 3rd-level spells.A default Aasimar meets the bolded requirement from their Daylight Spell-like ability, and various class abilities can also fulfill this requirement. Neither of the other two allow for early entry, but early entry into Evangelist would mean gaining the boons at 5th level, 9th level, and 12th level.
The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
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Mwahaha! Cover in fear you cheesemongers! The T-Rex is coming!
This deserves to be noted: According to Paizo's FAQ, Evangelist can be entered into as early as 4th level.
These are the requirements for Evangelist:
Alignment: Within one step of chosen deity.
Deity: Must worship a single, specific deity.
Feat: Deific Obedience*
Special: Any one of the following: base attack bonus +5,
5 ranks in any skill other than Knowledge (religion), or
ability to cast 3rd-level spells.A default Aasimar meets the bolded requirement from their Daylight Spell-like ability, and various class abilities can also fulfill this requirement. Neither of the other two allow for early entry, but early entry into Evangelist would mean gaining the boons at 5th level, 9th level, and 12th level.
The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
Thank you James! I always thought that FAQ was a bit problematic. I never let that sort of blanket statement apply to everything that comes along. I evaluate each and every situation like something new, then rule on the merits of my players arguments.
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This deserves to be noted: According to Paizo's FAQ, Evangelist can be entered into as early as 4th level.
These are the requirements for Evangelist:
Alignment: Within one step of chosen deity.
Deity: Must worship a single, specific deity.
Feat: Deific Obedience*
Special: Any one of the following: base attack bonus +5,
5 ranks in any skill other than Knowledge (religion), or
ability to cast 3rd-level spells.A default Aasimar meets the bolded requirement from their Daylight Spell-like ability, and various class abilities can also fulfill this requirement. Neither of the other two allow for early entry, but early entry into Evangelist would mean gaining the boons at 5th level, 9th level, and 12th level.
The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
And I agree with you, but I worry what sort of problems this mishap may cause in PFS, since unfortunately your word does not carry much Rules as Intended weight in PFS.
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Creative Director
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And I agree with you, but I worry what sort of problems this mishap may cause in PFS, since unfortunately your word does not carry much Rules as Intended weight in PFS.This deserves to be noted: According to Paizo's FAQ, Evangelist can be entered into as early as 4th level.
These are the requirements for Evangelist:
Alignment: Within one step of chosen deity.
Deity: Must worship a single, specific deity.
Feat: Deific Obedience*
Special: Any one of the following: base attack bonus +5,
5 ranks in any skill other than Knowledge (religion), or
ability to cast 3rd-level spells.A default Aasimar meets the bolded requirement from their Daylight Spell-like ability, and various class abilities can also fulfill this requirement. Neither of the other two allow for early entry, but early entry into Evangelist would mean gaining the boons at 5th level, 9th level, and 12th level.
The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
Let us worry about that.
Downloaded my PDF today. This book brings me so much happy! I was never particularly excited by Gods or divine classes when I played in other settings, but somehow the Golarion pantheon is a never ending source of enjoyment to me. I actually want to play religious characters in Pathfinder!
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The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
Well, I'm glad I never engaged in those shenanigans then.
Is there anything new for the Eldest ?
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At the risk of derailing the thread, I think that FAQ is being overstated. It says that being able to use dimension door as a spell-like ability counts as being able to cast dimension door for PrCs or Feats. Those kinds of prerequsites exist for things that enhance a single spell or type of spell: not for spellcasting in general.
An aasimar's ability to use daylight means they are treated as casting daylight, not '3rd level spells' as a category. While that is the same number of 3rd level spells as a 6th level sorcerer, who would qualify as casting third level spells, if you cannot see the difference I believe you are being willfully obtuse.
The FAQ does not need to be reversed or undone, just further clarified. It would not be a rules change: it would be a public announcement that some people misinterpreted it.
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At the risk of derailing the thread, I think that FAQ is being overstated. It says that being able to use dimension door as a spell-like ability counts as being able to cast dimension door for PrCs or Feats. Those kinds of prerequsites exist for things that enhance a single spell or type of spell: not for spellcasting in general.
An aasimar's ability to use daylight means they are treated as casting daylight, not '3rd level spells' as a category. While that is the same number of spells as a 6th level sorcerer, who would qualify as casting third level spells, if you cannot see the difference I believe you are being willfully obtuse.
The FAQ does not need to be reversed or undone, just further clarified. It would not be a rules change: it would be a public announcement that some people misinterpreted it.
except that it was confirmed that the faq allows characters to meet the prerequisites for arcane trickster, eldritch knight, and mystic theurge early.
I believe such confirmation to be a mistake. I am willing to believe such a thing exists, but I'm not finding it at the moment. Care to share a link?
It is directly below the linked FAQ:
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.
Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.
Personally, I've actually found it to be pretty great. Dumpster diving for the correct spell levels is annoying, and I agree it is a VERY weird interpretation, but it has made Eldritch Knight a much more viable option (as well as Mystic Theurge, though that might be a bit TOO attractive). I'm made some neat, balanced characters with it that otherwise just wouldn't have worked.
Haven't seen the new class yet, but from what I'm hearing it won't be a game breaker there either, even if it was an unintended option.
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I believe such confirmation to be a mistake. I am willing to believe such a thing exists, but I'm not finding it at the moment. Care to share a link?
Here is a link to the discussion that was going on in the society forums when the FAQ was first made, there are links to several rules questions that ended up further shaping the FAQ.
I agree that it was a really weird way to allow early access to suboptimal Prestige classes, and it can be annoying to build towards, but it is what it is.
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Downloaded and browsed through it with the wife to enjoy the artwork and will read more in-depth when we get the hard copy or when the kid goes to sleep. The only complaint we have seen so far is that the art for two or three of Calistra's magic items are out of place. Examples: Vengeful Kiss on page 257, a whip with the artwork of a hammer. Stinging Stiletto on page 270, a stiletto with the artwork of a ring (I'm guessing for the Ring of Unquenchable Passions on page 259, which has no artwork). Not a big deal, but was kind of dissapointing to her as one of her favorite characters is a cleric of Calistria.
We have several players fairly new to playing Pathfinder/D&D, and this will be a very handy tool for those that take interest in divine patrons.
"A family that games together stays together!"
Well, I'm glad I never engaged in those shenanigans then.The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
Same here! And I am glad that more talk about fixing this weird exploit is finally happening XD
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Well, I'm glad I never engaged in those shenanigans then.The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
I kinda object to the term shenanigans. I think the ruling was a bit wrong, but I waited until it was crystal clear what the ruling was and that the developers intended it to be what it was before I built a Mystic Theurge.
My primary objection isn't the power level, its that the ruling practically forces one to play Aasimar or Tieflings (PFS) for all sorts of characters.
Well, I'm glad I never engaged in those shenanigans then.The ability to cast 3rd level spells in this case does NOT mean spell-like abilities.
That's an unfortunate side effect of a FAQ entry, and frankly, we should re-evaluate that FAQ entry since spellcasting is NOT the same as spell-like abilities.
I kinda object to the term shenanigans. I think the ruling was a bit wrong, but I waited until it was crystal clear what the ruling was and that the developers intended it to be what it was before I built a Mystic Theurge.
My primary objection isn't the power level, its that the ruling practically forces one to play Aasimar or Tieflings (PFS) for all sorts of characters.
Seriously. Aasimar is an incredibly powerful race even without being able to sneak into prestige classes early.
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My primary objection isn't the power level, its that the ruling practically forces one to play Aasimar or Tieflings (PFS) for all sorts of characters.
This, lots of this. My Sorcerer/Guntank/Eldritch Knight is only Aasimar because he has to be and the early entry prestige class is not making him a lot more effective because eldritch knight doesn't have class abilities, heck next level I would be stronger as a pure gunslinger.
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I just got mine and noticed Potion Glutton. I suspect it has issues since it says the normal is potions are a move action. It lets you drink as a swift, which seems powerful for worshippers of Urgathoa.
This seems wrong to me but evangelist doesn't specify that the aligned class has to be a non prestige class heck evangelist can increase levels in exalted or sentinel!
That's interesting -- a couple of pages back Lord Gadigan made mention of an Evangelist choosing "one of five deity associated classes" -- and the mention of "aligned class" as opposed to simply "class" suggests that there is some limitation of the class that can be chosen. So what is the real story here?
That's interesting -- a couple of pages back Lord Gadigan made mention of an Evangelist choosing "one of five deity associated classes" -- and the mention of "aligned class" as opposed to simply "class" suggests that there is some limitation of the class that can be chosen. So what is the real story here?
The deity section of the prerequisites for the class lists 5 classes for each of the core 20 deities who are most likely to become Evangelists. However, there are no mechanical restrictions on which classes worshiping which deities may take the class, so presumably the "aligned class" section does not restrict this. Which is nice, considering bards (who have access to the Dawnflower Dervish archetype) aren't listed as an option for Sarenites.
What is Asmodeus' servitor?
Actually, what are all of the servitors?
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Abadar- Orshevals(horse like outsider)
Asmodeus- Hesperians(devil with all-round vision and poison))
Calistria- Vendenopterixes(fey like outsider with ability drain)
Cayden Cailean- Ataxians(fey like outsider with ice ray that staggers)
Desna- Thyrlians(Azata, more powerful version of lyrakien)
Erastil- Stag Archon
Gorum- Zentragts(armored bear like outsider)
Gozreh- Xocothians(cross between a fish and a bird)
Iomedae- Iophanites(angel that looks like a shield)
Iroi- Pavbaghas(white tiger like outsider)
Lamashtu- Swaithes(demon that is blind and looks like a goat legged ratfolk)
Nethys- Burleevs(glowing skeleton like outsider)
Norgorber- Karumzeks(spider like creature in robes)
Pharasma- Ahmuuths(psyshopomp, women in mask with floating gravestones)
Rovagug- Thognoroks(like a melted blob of spiders)
Sarenrae- Yhohms(tiny bird of flame)
Shelyn- Dapsaras(hindu based angel)
Torag- Chalkosts(dwarf like creature)
Urgathoa- Sarcovalts(vulture headed fly, immune to vorpal)
Zon-Kuthon- Lampadariuses(Kyton with half flesh and half shadow)
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Which I think balances it out...if you don't just hand wave the obedience.You lose the bonuses from the aligned class too, so if you are a Rogue5/Evangelist10, and you fail to maintain your obedience, you are essentially a Rogue5 with 10 extra hit dice and no extra class abilities.At the cost of a dead feat for serveral levels and you loose all of that if you don't perform your obedience for the day.BTW, here is what you gain over 10 levels other then 9 levels in your aligned class and the deific obedience boon as an Evangelist:
2 additional class skills
+2 dodge bonus to ac that is lost anytime you lose your dex bonus to ac
2 bonus languages
+4 on skills without ranks
and Spiritual form, which gives telepathy 100ft, +4 to one stat (untyped), and either wings, gills, or a natural attack, the spiritual form is useable in 1-minute increments for a total of minutes per day equal to character level.
Honestly, 3/4 of the obediences do not seem that difficult. A lot of them seem to include a hard one and an easier one if you can't do the hard one. Calistria? Sleep with someone OR just think about vengeance on someone while praying.
Yes, being able to lose all the abilities if you can't do your obedience is a big risk, but I don't see it as any bigger than some Paladin Codes and the risk of falling. SOME of the gods have hard obediences, but most are pretty easy to do. This class seems really powerful to me.
Actually, what are all of the servitors?
Also, what are the Heralds? Do they each get new artwork and an updated stat block (for the ones released when Pathfinder was still 3.5 edition)?
I know it is extremely unlikely, but is there any information/material for Daikitsu in the book?
The deity section of the prerequisites for the class lists 5 classes for each of the core 20 deities who are most likely to become Evangelists. However, there are no mechanical restrictions on which classes worshiping which deities may take the class, so presumably the "aligned class" section does not restrict this. Which is nice, considering bards (who have access to the Dawnflower Dervish archetype) aren't listed as an option for Sarenites.That's interesting -- a couple of pages back Lord Gadigan made mention of an Evangelist choosing "one of five deity associated classes" -- and the mention of "aligned class" as opposed to simply "class" suggests that there is some limitation of the class that can be chosen. So what is the real story here?
Ah -- so the validity of the complaints about potentially abusive choices of aligned class would be campaign dependent unless the examples already include something that is potentially problematic. The open question would be what are the aligned classes for a deity who is not one of the top 20. So -- it looks like it will be at least two weeks before I can see for myself. I was going to refrain from buying the PDF for this one, but it looks as though I won't have the patience to wait those extra few days until my FLGS gets its physical copy.
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The 5 classes per 20 deities are not restrictions. They list the most common *examples*. Any class that you have taken levels in before Evangelist can legally be your Aligned Class.
"Below are examples of the class types most likely to become evangelists in each of the major faiths of the Inner Sea region."
Edit: Misread the post above mine, so not directly responding to that. Still leaving this here for clarification if anyone else has questions.
I know it is extremely unlikely, but is there any information/material for Daikitsu in the book?There is a single sentence.
Lol! Well, I guess at least it isn't nothing ;)
Okay, then the lists can clarify one point. I assume that they are all core or base classes? By implication, that would exclude prestige classes at least -- for the sake of sanity if not balance. I think a lot of people's heads would explode if they had to deal with multiple layers of "+1 level of existing class".
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Okay, then the lists can clarify one point. I assume that they are all core or base classes? By implication, that would exclude prestige classes at least -- for the sake of sanity if not balance. I think a lot of people's heads would explode if they had to deal with multiple layers of "+1 level of existing class".
I'd *assume* it's only base classes, and that's definitely how I'd rule it in my games... but it doesn't quite spell it out. :)
So would this Evangelist make a good option for a "Wizard Priest" of a god of magic (Nethys, Lissala) ???
AND...is there any more info on Lissala ???
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Am I missing something on Glorious Heat, or is this back to the pre-errata version that could be spammed endlessly with Spark as the healing it gives is based on caster level, not spell level? Only usable by worshipers of Sarenrae, but still available.
edit: Just checked and it seems the change was for PFS only. Exploit at will from here or from Faiths of Purity.