Meet the Iconics: Iseph

This is very interesting. I love the bits of worldbuilding revealed here, like how androids use computer viruses to get "drunk" the same way that organics use alcohol.

Awesome!

Edit: I'm getting a very similar vibe from Iseph and androids as I did from the beltalowda in The Expanse.

Remember you can't be a paranoid android if someone really is out to get you.

Lot of cool stuff. Is this the first mention of the Vast? Also, we as a society need to develop a gender neutral pronoun for a singular entity. That was a bit of a headache to read-though I like themself. Cool word

Lot of cool stuff. Is this the first mention of the Vast? Also, we as a society need to develop a gender neutral pronoun for a singular entity. That was a bit of a headache to read-though I like themself. Cool word

Gender neutral pronouns are already a thing. Some prefer they. Really depends on the person. The vast has been mentioned in at least one video that I can recall. They're areas located far from a drift beacon from my understanding, in contrast with the "near".

Also, I really want to play a technomancer but Iseph is making the operative look too great (and I hate multiclassing).

Edit: fixed some errors.

They as singular? Huh. Interesting

I love how Iseph recognizes people they knew, though not completely. Like a granularity fave they know to get away from. Very interesting. The way androids move on reminds me almost of the Trill,but backwards. Also sing to see the symbol.

This is intriguing. There was a lot less fleshing out here than with Navasi, and I kind of like that. Our resident Wolverine-esque character - the loner vigilante with a mysterious past, or a Batman - idealist crusader with a chip on their shoulder trading blows with the corrupt from the shadows. The story here reads more like a setup than a biography as Navasi's did, which makes me wonder if something is actually planned to extend the iconics' stories, be it a comic line or something else. I'm also interested in getting more into Iseph's mind about their motivation for joining the Android Abolitionist Front. From what I understand, emotions are not as developed in androids, and they find empathy difficult to learn, so most make decisions and perceive the world through a visor of cold logic, curiosity, and pragmatism. I wonder what must have processed through Iseph's head to provoke the anger and passion they display? Does it have something to do with their predecessor? Was there an event that caused it, or was it a passive, evolving perception that resulted in such personal conviction? Is it more common for androids to experience life-altering personality changes purely as a result of observation and rationalization rather than direct experience? I find it interesting that what sparked Iseph's initial discomfort in the organic world was that it was "messier."

I'm very interested in seeing just how differently - and alike - synthetic beings function in Starfinder universe compared to organic beings. It's entirely possible androids are much more sophisticated than they were in Pathfinder, and think and feel much the same way humans do. Regardless, Iseph remains muchly an enigma to us for now, which seems appropriate for their character. But I'm very much anticipating future literature exploring where their story is headed now - this predator from the shadows has me chattering with anticipation.

They as singular? Huh. Interesting

Setting aside the reality that it's been around for awhile in a broader context, in the specific context of nonbinary genders it's getting more common all the time.

Androids make for pretty interesting characters. Can you seperate yourself from your previous personalities? Do you try to incorporate your former incarnations into your own identity? What happens if something with the renewal process goes wrong and residual memories resurge? How does android society deal with the renewal?

Iseph's pupils are a very cool detail. Seems like androids run on AAA batteries...

I'm going to take a stab at it and guess the theme. Ace Pilot?

Again, no proper trigger discipline. I feel like an old vinyl record stuck on the same tune :P.
The art is otherwise lovely as all the others.
I especially like the mohawk.

The story and the circuitry makes it feel a bit of a shadowrunner whose memory got deleted by black IC and imprinted with circuitry :D. I like alot.

They as singular? Huh. Interesting

They was a singular pronoun before it was ever used as a plural, at least as far back as the works of Shakespeare. We also use it in conversation and reading all the time without thinking about it, whenever there's a question of the identity of whoever we're talking about.

There are also several non-binary pronoun sets floating around, some inclined one way or the other on the gender spectrum, others neutral, although those are much less linguistically codified than singular they and you'll find plenty of disagreement between the modifiers (like xe/xer/xyr vs xe/xem/xyr). If you're curious, one site trying to gather them is here.

Back to the topic, I appreciate seeing an agender character, and suspect that Cayden Cailean would appreciate Iseph. It's nice to read more non-stereotypical takes on characters, and I'd like to know more about their precursor's story. I suspect androids in general are going to be popular with people who have a significant life-changing experience to the point that they feel they're a distinct person from who they were before, too. So far the iconics of Starfinder are shaping up interestingly, and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of them and what the rest of the setting brings. It'd be nice to have a science fantasy game that isn't either After The End or a hacked-apart popular property that covers a fraction of what it needed to cover to be Fun.

Again, no proper trigger discipline. I feel like an old vinyl record stuck on the same tune :P.

The art is otherwise lovely as all the others.
I especially like the mohawk.

The story and the circuitry makes it feel a bit of a shadowrunner whose memory got deleted by black IC and imprinted with circuitry :D. I like alot.

Well, this is an android with a space gun. Maybe Iseph has some sort of electronic link to the weapon, so it's safe until they will it to fire?

Can we get pronunciations on the iconics? I am seeing "I seff" but my friends are saying "I sep"

Thank you to everyone for the lesson on pronouns, always happy to learn something new.

Something interesting I couldn't help but notice is there's a previous version of both of these iconics, between Iseph being a new soul in an old body and Navasi taking the other Navasi's name, I'm curious if any of the other iconics will be legacy characters

Can we get pronunciations on the iconics? I am seeing "I seff" but my friends are saying "I sep"

I'd bet that their name is kinda like, "Joseph," just replace the "Jo" with "I."

I agree, however, with needing pronunciations for things. This being a sci-fi setting, we'll likely have lots of new words thrown our way like James Sutter did when he mashed sounds together to create ysoki. So having a pronunciation guide, or a video where everything just happens to be pronounced at least once, would be really helpful.

That being said, I was already planning on eventually playing a goblin Ace Pilot/Operative, but this kinda makes want to just play Iseph. Never really wanted to play any of the Pathfinder Iconics, always wanted to make my own character, but this is pretty cool.

Good job Paizo.

Can we get pronunciations on the iconics? I am seeing "I seff" but my friends are saying "I sep"

I believe it's pronounced "0100100101110011011001010111000001101000."

Like it, just a hint of Shadowrun and Bladerunner to get in the right SF mood. ;)

I thought the Renewal was not voluntary? Doesn't that contradict the existing lore of the race?

I thought the Renewal was not voluntary? Doesn't that contradict the existing lore of the race?

Pathfinder androids seem to have voluntarily choose when renewal occurs, although pathfinder's androids would begin to grow weaker with age. Starfinders androids in description and appearance seem to be more machine than pathfinder androids were, making maintaining them for long periods of time far easier, and giving less of an incentive for renewal should that be the case.

The Renewal's cool, and I dig the "explore counterculture" detail and the reasons for it!

Mine all mine...don't touch wrote:

Can we get pronunciations on the iconics? I am seeing "I seff" but my friends are saying "I sep"

I believe it's pronounced "0100100101110011011001010111000001101000."

Actually i believe thats Benders prayer from the episode of Futurama where he finds religion.

Lot of cool stuff. Is this the first mention of the Vast? Also, we as a society need to develop a gender neutral pronoun for a singular entity. That was a bit of a headache to read-though I like themself. Cool word

What do you mean society? There are plenty of languages without gendered pronouns :D

It's fun to imagine the linguistic headache sci-fi translators must go through. How do you adequately translate pronouns from a race that has 42 grammatically distinct genders into a language like English that only has a handful of gendered pronouns? Is it acceptable to call bug people "he" or "she", if they have "xe", "ye", and "ze", "zhe", and "€" instead?

Gender neutral pronouns are already a thing. Some prefer they.

Using "they" to refer to a generic or unknown person isn't too bad. Using "they" to refer to a specific individual was jarring. I kept wondering if androids had more than one consciousness, or something. I realize that "it" has connotations of non-personhood, but I think it would have worked better for me here.

I don't have a perfect solution, or even a better one.

I'm wondering...are the old Aballonian robots still around, or are android the dominant sapient machine life on that planet? Hoping they kept a lot of machinery diversity on that world, and maybe we can get some less humanoid robots in the future as 0HD races.

Mine all mine...don't touch wrote:

Can we get pronunciations on the iconics? I am seeing "I seff" but my friends are saying "I sep"

I believe it's pronounced "0100100101110011011001010111000001101000."

For those too lazy to google, that string of 0 and 1s converts to Iseph in binary.

Would still like a Taldane pronunciation of her name though. That is if Taldane is still Common.

Pronunciation wise, I'm seeing Ee-seph. Like the long e sound, followed by seph. Like Steph. But Ee-seph.

I've been saying I-seph, like an iPad. That's me though.

Nu-uh. I just watched Alien: Covenant. I know what happens when Androids become "liberated"...

Please tell me iseph refers to organics as "meatbags".

A badass Android pilot.

Paizo, Paizo, Paizo... my birthday isn't until December.

Lot of cool stuff. Is this the first mention of the Vast? Also, we as a society need to develop a gender neutral pronoun for a singular entity. That was a bit of a headache to read-though I like themself. Cool word

The English-language has always been in desperate need of a gender-neutral pronoun - but "they/them" is a REALLY poor choice. It's a friggin' plural. I'm not at all happy with its getting as normalized as it has. I'm not sure I understand what would be wrong with "it" - is there a stigma, and even if so, why should it have to stay that way? If people think it's a downgrade to be considered a 'thing,' doesn't that mean that they just don't treat things with proper respect? I wonder if they have this problem in animism-dominated cultures like Japan?

Failing that, why not do what English does so well and steal an existing gender-neutral pronoun from another language?

Are you going to complain about everyone using a plural for the second person singular all the time too?

TheGoofyGE3K wrote:

Lot of cool stuff. Is this the first mention of the Vast? Also, we as a society need to develop a gender neutral pronoun for a singular entity. That was a bit of a headache to read-though I like themself. Cool word

The English-language has always been in desperate need of a gender-neutral pronoun - but "they/them" is a REALLY poor choice. It's a friggin' plural. I'm not at all happy with its getting as normalized as it has. I'm not sure I understand what would be wrong with "it" - is there a stigma, and even if so, why should it have to stay that way? If people think it's a downgrade to be considered a 'thing,' doesn't that mean that they just don't treat things with proper respect? I wonder if they have this problem in animism-dominated cultures like Japan?

Failing that, why not do what English does so well and steal an existing gender-neutral pronoun from another language?

Just grab one and start using it i'm pretty sure that is how it happens.

Are you going to complain about everyone using a plural for the second person singular all the time too?

I'd be perfectly fine with bringing back "thou" (or some equivalent). I have no idea where it went or why.

That said, it's easier to prevent another error in the present than to rectify one made in the past, and the fact that one was made in the past doesn't actually make it okay to do it again.

Just grab one and start using it i'm pretty sure that is how it happens.

I've done that some - "ith" is one I heard of that I like, and my post history will attest that I've tried putting it to use.

Thou's guess is a good as mine.

Thou's guess is a good as mine.

It would be "thy guess is as good as mine" - the way you said it makes you sound a bit like an Elizabethan mafia goon. :3

I'd be fully onboard with bringing back "thou" (or some equivalent). I have no idea where it went or why.

"Thou" and "You" were markers of status. Thou was used to refer to people of equal or lesser status relative to the speaker, and you referred to people of greater status. That distinction is reflected differently these days, so thou is no longer used.

It's not unusual. It's fairly common to use they when you don't know the gender of someone.
"Look, someone's left their wallet behind."
"Sucks to be them, I guess."
"Yeah, I hope they notice and can get their property back."

At what point in that did you get confused or annoyed that a plural was being used? I bet not once because that part of the English language is common. But referring to a known person as "They" is somehow weird.

Just because it's "not unusual" doesn't mean it's okay - and I'd thank you kindly not to "bet" on what or how I think.

One difference is that the example you're talking about is informal. The offending words are the least important words in those sentences. Shouldn't we try harder when we're talking about a proposed formal adjustment to the English language?

Vidmaster7 wrote:

Thou's guess is a good as mine.

It would be "thy guess is as good as mine" - the way you said it makes you sound a bit like an Elizabethan mafia goon. :3

Ah thanks for the tip... but maybe I am an Elizabethan mafia goon...

It's not unusual. It's fairly common to use they when you don't know the gender of someone.

"Look, someone's left their wallet behind."
"Sucks to be them, I guess."
"Yeah, I hope they notice and can get their property back."

At what point in that did you get confused or annoyed that a plural was being used? I bet not once because that part of the English language is common. But referring to a known person as "They" is somehow weird.

Answered in a new thread.

Paul Watson wrote:

It's not unusual. It's fairly common to use they when you don't know the gender of someone.

"Look, someone's left their wallet behind."
"Sucks to be them, I guess."
"Yeah, I hope they notice and can get their property back."

At what point in that did you get confused or annoyed that a plural was being used? I bet not once because that part of the English language is common. But referring to a known person as "They" is somehow weird.

Started a new thread.

FTFY.

It's a friggin' plural.

Oh, I see what you did there! Repurposing a word that started with a different lexical value as a colloquially acceptable substitution for a more common, but taboo, profanity word with its own distinct etymology and meaning--to pretend to object to a linguistic change of the same type! Clever... ten thousand spoons clever...

Please tell me iseph refers to organics as "meatbags".

Or 'fleshies.'

I want to see a 'virus bar.' 'Cause the idea of androids going to one and deliberately downloading low-grade viruses to impede their performance and 'get drunk' just tickles my fancy.

I want to see a 'virus bar.' 'Cause the idea of androids going to one and deliberately downloading low-grade viruses to impede their performance and 'get drunk' just tickles my fancy.

Agreed. And remember in Neuromancer where Armitage replaces Case's pancreas and modifies his liver so he can't get high any more? I'm picturing the same scenario, but with installing MacAfee or Symantec Antivirus...

Agreed. And remember in Neuromancer where Armitage replaces Case's pancreas and modifies his liver so he can't get high any more? I'm picturing the same scenario, but with installing MacAfee or Symantec Antivirus...

Ha, that's cool. "Y'all go to the virus bar without me. My anti-virus protection is too advanced, because of my government job. I can't get wasted anymore."

quibblemuch wrote:

Agreed. And remember in Neuromancer where Armitage replaces Case's pancreas and modifies his liver so he can't get high any more? I'm picturing the same scenario, but with installing MacAfee or Symantec Antivirus...

Ha, that's cool. "Y'all go to the virus bar without me. My anti-virus protection is too advanced, because of my government job. I can't get wasted anymore."

And you could get really snooty android sommeliers: "I recommend the Windows 97... it has a bouquet like winter berries and oak, with an insouciant hint of mint and a bright, fulsome finish. Would you care to sniff the CD case?"