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Game Master Dreaming Warforged

Bold and just adventurers exploring and settling the Stolen Lands.
Now at the beginning of vol. 4 - Blood for Blood


2,501 to 2,548 of 2,548 << first < prev | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | next > last >>

Male Elf Cleric 10: AC 24, Hit Points 57/57, Perception +17, Initiative +3

Balcony?

What are the walls behind us made of? Can we still wind walk?


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

Don't worry guys, I prepped Dimension Door. I can get us all out from behind the wall of force. But in the mean-time, it's a nice protection for anyone who wants to, say, summon up something/s that can teleport itself/themselves.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Yay! Dimension door! If you can get Kriger out of there, that would be great. :)

Wait, can you use Dimension door on another player? I thought that was one of those spells that was a "You" target type spell.


Male Elf Cleric 10: AC 24, Hit Points 57/57, Perception +17, Initiative +3

Do I need line of effect to summon? Or just line of sight?

Wall of Force is invisible so I am good to go!


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

I'm not sure if we can summon something on the other side of a Wall of Force. That's DW's call, but signs don't look good from what I've read.

Dimension Door lets me take up to one willing creature per three caster levels with me, so I can take Kriger, Malaswyn and Luca. No fuss, no muss. You guys can act after we teleport, which I guess opens up the question of whether Malaswyn can cast his spell uninterrupted while I Dimension Door him. Maybe DW will let me make a spellcraft check on that or something.


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

Ok, so I read through line of effect, dimension door, summon monster and concentration rules. I think, as long as Malaswyn's willing, I can take him with me on a dimensional journey to the other side of the wall of force. Concentration check rules indicate that Malaswyn can concentrate and maintain his spell as long as he makes a concentration check with a DC of the non-damaging spell (dimension door, which has no save unless you're an object) plus the spell level, so, a DC 5 concentration check, unless I'm mistaken.

Does Merten need a spellcraft check to figure that out?


HP 56/67, AC 23/18/15, F/R/W 10/9/10, At: +12 1d6+5, Init: +4, Per: +1

OM - did Raveneau's attacks hit or miss?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Shoot! It got lost in the long list of posts...

Let me check when I get home. From memory, at least one attack hit, though he is blurred, so I (or you if you prefer) will roll for it as well.


HP 56/67, AC 23/18/15, F/R/W 10/9/10, At: +12 1d6+5, Init: +4, Per: +1

Assuming low is miss (1-20):
Blur Roll 1: 1d100 ⇒ 30
Blur Roll 2: 1d100 ⇒ 49
Blur Roll 3: 1d100 ⇒ 75

If the blur concealment is higher somehow Raveneau also gets a reroll from Blindfight.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Ok, good news is they all potentially hit. More when I get home.


HP 56/67, AC 23/18/15, F/R/W 10/9/10, At: +12 1d6+5, Init: +4, Per: +1

OM - the acid fog (green circle) blocks line of sight doesn't it? - so Raveneau can't physically see the Baron or the rest of them, correct?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Yes, no line of sight through the fog.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Fights get much deadlier as we go up in levels. And a few bad rolls and things can go either ways...

Please look at all your bonuses and special abilities for your saves. I know that for some of you, it's the difference between out and out for good...

Also, if you die, please let me know in the ooc whether you'd want to be resuscitated.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

What is that toward the south of the map? The square with the grey border. It encompasses E 6 - 8, E F G H 6, and H 6 - 8.

Can we freely walk across that? If it was described earlier I missed it.


Anyone know what happened to Malaswyn? We could probably use some divine aid right about now.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Javell DeLeon wrote:

What is that toward the south of the map? The square with the grey border. It encompasses E 6 - 8, E F G H 6, and H 6 - 8.

Can we freely walk across that? If it was described earlier I missed it.

the brown square is the pit, and the grey edge is the zone where you have to save or slip down.


HP 56/67, AC 23/18/15, F/R/W 10/9/10, At: +12 1d6+5, Init: +4, Per: +1

Other Mastermind:
As the spell cast was Chain Lightning targeting Merten, and Raveneau was 35 ft away from him, shouldn't he have been an invalid target for the spell?

From the PRD: You choose secondary targets as you like, but they must all be within 30 feet of the primary target

Happy to leave it as is if you prefer to avoid any retconning or I'm wrong and there was another kind of effect that allowed him to extend the spell. Though obviously I'd be fighting harder if Raveneau hadn't made his save ;)


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

I'm curious, if there's no line of sight within the fog(as per a few posts up), would Stroon be able to see Kriger? Or Malaswyn or Luca?

I ask due to this as per chain lightning: You choose secondary targets as you like, but they must all be within 30 feet of the primary target.

It reads that other targets are chosen. If that's the case he shouldn't be able to see Kriger through the fog, I would initially gather.

BUT, there could easily be something I'm missing because I know extremely little about arcane. Plus, I obviously have no idea the special abilities(or magical gear, etc, etc...) of this guy, so, if that's the case, then just ignore me. :P


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Raveneau:
I have misread (or read too fast...) and assumes (wrongly) that every target had to be within 30 feet of one another...

That's one of the reasons i had guard 4 fried. If it's ok, i'd prefer move on, as the battle will soon be over. Let me know if you'd prefer I review the last round.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Javell DeLeon wrote:

I'm curious, if there's no line of sight within the fog(as per a few posts up), would Stroon be able to see Kriger? Or Malaswyn or Luca?

I ask due to this as per chain lightning: You choose secondary targets as you like, but they must all be within 30 feet of the primary target.

It reads that other targets are chosen. If that's the case he shouldn't be able to see Kriger through the fog, I would initially gather.

BUT, there could easily be something I'm missing because I know extremely little about arcane. Plus, I obviously have no idea the special abilities(or magical gear, etc, etc...) of this guy, so, if that's the case, then just ignore me. :P

I don't know much either, unfortunately, and as the game gets to higher levels, more of this is to be expected...

I had decided that Stroon just opted to fry anything within reach, letting the spell's area work for him (as it would with other area effect spell). That's one of the reasons I had guard 4 fallen victim to the spell.

I agree with your reading though, and both interpretations could probably be argued.

If it's ok with you, I'll let things stand as is, but keep your comments in mind for the future.


HP 56/67, AC 23/18/15, F/R/W 10/9/10, At: +12 1d6+5, Init: +4, Per: +1

Other Mastermind:
No worries at all - happy to just let it sit as is so we can charge forward.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Actually, I would prefer a retcon on it, to be honest.

When this game gets this high, yes, I totally agree, things like this are to be expected from BOTH sides of the screen because the game does become more difficult, it's a lot to keep up with, and is more dangerous.

And as such, I believe retcons are going to become more necessary. Especially with this kind of damage involved. I mean, you yourself have been asking Merten about Concentration checks and such to make sure he's doing what he's suppose to be doing. Which is the absolute proper thing to do. If I do something that needs correcting, I would want someone to tell me what that is. And that's player or DM, I don't care which, and I'll fix it. It's that simple. I don't see that as a problem.

All I'm asking is the same from you. Nothing more. Anyway, I don't feel like that's asking a lot, but, there it is. *Shrugs*


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Javell DeLeon wrote:

Actually, I would prefer a retcon on it, to be honest.

When this game gets this high, yes, I totally agree, things like this are to be expected from BOTH sides of the screen because the game does become more difficult, it's a lot to keep up with, and is more dangerous.

And as such, I believe retcons are going to become more necessary. Especially with this kind of damage involved. I mean, you yourself have been asking Merten about Concentration checks and such to make sure he's doing what he's suppose to be doing. Which is the absolute proper thing to do. If I do something that needs correcting, I would want someone to tell me what that is. And that's player or DM, I don't care which, and I'll fix it. It's that simple. I don't see that as a problem.

All I'm asking is the same from you. Nothing more. Anyway, I don't feel like that's asking a lot, but, there it is. *Shrugs*

Adjusted in IC.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Obviously I don't understand the concept of a retcon. I was under the impression that those not chosen(or unable to be chosen) would simply be left out, yet, everything else remain the same.

Wouldn't that have been easier? Didn't realize it was going to be a complete scene changer.


Well, we're still waiting on 2 rounds worth of actions from Malaswyn. Hopefully he'll use some of that to heal Kriger.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Javell DeLeon wrote:

Obviously I don't understand the concept of a retcon. I was under the impression that those not chosen(or unable to be chosen) would simply be left out, yet, everything else remain the same.

Wouldn't that have been easier? Didn't realize it was going to be a complete scene changer.

Well, I chose your interpretation, which meant that it wouldn't have been the spell that Stroon would have opted for.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Other Mastermind wrote:
Well, I chose your interpretation, which meant that it wouldn't have been the spell that Stroon would have opted for.

It's not mine, it's the spells. Let's call it what it is.


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

Since Geraint is MIA, can we get some botted healing on Kriger? What I do next is really going to depend on whether he's up or not.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

The problem is that Malaswyn is in the Acid Fog, so he can't see so well.

Keep in mind Kriger didn't get hit by the lightning bolt, as it got revised. So he should have more hp than listed last.


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

Ah, ok, I was unclear on that. I'll get actions for Luca and Merten posted soonish.


Male Elf Cleric 10: AC 24, Hit Points 57/57, Perception +17, Initiative +3

Hello, sorry for the out.

I have been dealing with a lot of RL business... but I guess we're in a life or death struggle so I'd better pull on my holy symbol and get to work.


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

Not bad for our first high level combat together. Obviously we've got some kinks to iron out, but over all, that was pretty good.


HP 56/67, AC 23/18/15, F/R/W 10/9/10, At: +12 1d6+5, Init: +4, Per: +1

Grease plus Black Tentacles plus Stoneskin plus Wreath of Blades is pretty brutal as a combo actually :)


Human Paladin 10 HPs 10/85, Sickened, AC 21 FF 19 T 13 CMD 23 Fort +17 Ref +13 Will +15 Init +2 Per +2

I'm glad you guys joined us! It really made a huge difference, I thought. And talk about the fog of war... Layering tentacles with acid fog with wall of force with normal obstacles...

It shows me I may have to revise tactics. Archery is great and can be effective, but I need to be a little quicker to start with sword when the quarters are tight like that.


Male Elf Cleric 10: AC 24, Hit Points 57/57, Perception +17, Initiative +3

A massive difference, it seems to me.


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

Mal, remind me to craft up a lesser rod of reach for you once we get some downtime. Three third level cure spells at close range per day is well worth the 1500gp crafting cost.


Male Elf Cleric 10: AC 24, Hit Points 57/57, Perception +17, Initiative +3
Merten Falstaff wrote:
Mal, remind me to craft up a lesser rod of reach for you once we get some downtime. Three third level cure spells at close range per day is well worth the 1500gp crafting cost.

That would be very handy indeed. Good call.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

First, please note I'll be away for a week with spotty phone access. I should be able to keep things moving somewhat still.

Second, I'm having "deep" discussions with myself on the games I am running, where I wish them to go, how the system supports those goals, and my ability to maintain the games.

This has led me already to put my two other games on ice. I'm not sure where things will go.

I took over KM from Scipion a few years ago already (four years already!) and I am quite attached to it (and to JR, now in the third book... WotR has just started, so not as much, though I always wanted to play the pure heroic game). That being said, I find it extremely difficult to keep things challenging without always being a hair from TPK.

I guess this is the reality of high level play. As the players have more options and can apply ruthless hurt and lock down a fight, so does the GM's options open in an incredible number of ways. It would perhaps not be as hard if the AP had the right level of challenge, but the truth is I always spice things up quite a bit and often keep you one level lower than you should be.

For the Boggards, I've raised the challenge quite a lot, in part because you were just looking for trouble, spending a great amount of time building the encounter. Worst for Drelev, as I decided to rebuild him and his cohorts to make the fight more challenging (and I think it has been).

The fights at this level get very complex and "sensitive". One spell will make the whole difference. And as it gets complex, we're more likely to forget things, make mistakes, etc.

This takes an inordinate amount of time. And all this is for crunch, not for story, which is what is really gnawing at me. I'm not sure I can or want to keep up.

My decision so far has to offer to keep running JR, but as an E7 campaign, with the last level spell slots for metamagic and rituals.

I haven't decided yet on WotR.

Which brings me to KM. Part of me wants to keep going, but I don't think it's for the right reasons. Part of me wishes to turn it to an E7 game, but I know that this changes everything for you guys. Finally, part of me also prefers not to go through the tension, and just stop, perhaps starting something else...

Let me know what you guys are thinking. I value your experience and judgement and it will certainly help me put things in perspective.


Male Elf Cleric 10: AC 24, Hit Points 57/57, Perception +17, Initiative +3

I'm really enjoying it, and part of why I am enjoying it is that I haven't played at this level for years.

The complexity is a challenge for me too so I can't imagine how challenging it is for a GM.

The obvious suggestion is to run the campaign as written, if you think it lacks challenge then you can always supress the amount of treasure or our levels.

It is astounding how quickly a fight can change when Kriger gets a full-attack, or when Merten drops some control spells. But, for me, that is a bit of a thrill.

Some suggestions which might also lighten the load:
a) give us all a role that helps you: damage tracker, buff-tracker, treasurer etc.
b) either completely hand-over the kingdom building or switch to kingdom-in-the-background.
c) play up the RP and play down the combat. RP is not so complex at high levels as combat.


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

Yeah, one of the reasons that I was very interested in joining this game was the opportunity to play at this level. I'm enjoying the game and RP with you guys quite a bit, but the strategy and crunch are one of my favorite parts of the game, and I would be sad to lose out on that. Obviously, I don't want you to run a game that you don't enjoy, so I'm open to different ways of doing things.

I think that sharing some of the numbers duty is a fine suggestion, and would be more than happy to do my share in that regard. I'd also be more than happy to go and do research on different topics as they arise and give brief summaries on request.

I don't have any experience with the kingdom building aspect of this game, so I'll leave that alone for now.

I don't know what an E7 game would really look like, and if that's something you're leaning towards, I would like to voice my preference that we make it an E9/10 game and/or allow character rebuilds to allow for planning around that ceiling.

tl:dr - I like this game and hope that it doesn't die, especially since I joined so recently. I'd be happy to take on crunch-monkey duties if that helps.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Good points so far. It helps thanks!

Have you heard of this variant rule?


Spoiler:
Init +10, Perception +18(+22), AC: 20/14/17, F+9, R+10, W+10, hp: 72/72

I'm interested in rolling for npc/the other side in combat. Not sure exactly how that would work on the forums. Would you assign particular blocks of npc's to each player, or just whoever's available does the rolling?

One quick and dirty way to beef up encounters if we're making too short work of them is to add the Advanced simple template to all NPC's.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Now, first things first, THIS WALL OF BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, IS SIMPLY MY OPINION. Just wanna make that clear.

Mal wrote:
The obvious suggestion is to run the campaign as written, if you think it lacks challenge then you can always suppress the amount of treasure or our levels.

I totally agree with this. I've looked at these npc's in the AP and I don't think they're underpowered at all. In my opinion, I feel that you're probably looking at, "Well they're a 25 point buy so I have to rebuild everybody"

The reason we're on the verge of TPK's in every combat is because you keep rebuilding these guys and making them far overpowered. I know Paizo "claims" that all these AP's are built for "4, 15 point buy" pc's but that is a load of crap. Now, there's no way I'm gonna convince any of you of this and that's fine, but I've played WAAAAAAAAAY badder dudes in RL, and I've seen several of my characters bite the dust. And the ONLY thing our DM would do, is max out hit points for the bad guys. That's it. Because why add more work to yourself by rebuilding these dudes? It's not worth it. Yet, they were still challenging(obviously with the pc deaths involved I mentioned).

And our point buy? Ranged from 60 to 80. Yep, you read that right. All of us had stacked pc's and we still managed to get our butts handed to us.

Me, I'm personally a fan of 25 point buy MINIMUM. It allows you to build a pc to where he's strong somewhere. AND, I don't have to dump anything. I HATE DUMPSTATTING. I hate it. But you have no freaking choice with a 20 point buy. With a 25, I can build the pc to where I'm content with his mechanics, and I don't have to have an 8 in something(Barring a racial adjustment which I have no problem with. I just hate lowering it on purpose).

I think you overestimate the power of our PC's. I don't give a rip what items everyone possesses. You can have a million items on you, it doesn't matter. Because this game ULTIMATELY boils down to 3 things:

1. Armor class
2. Saves
3. Hit points

To survive this game, you need to be awesome in all three of those. I don't care how much damage you're doing, if your AC stinks... you're going down.

If you don't roll your save... you're going down. If Rave doesn't save, Mark's either calling it quits, or making up a new pc because Rave would've been obliterated(Which I noted you boosted the DC vs. the Empowered LB which was actually an 18. Not that it mattered, everyone saved anyway).

And if you don't have enough hit points... you're going down. Which is what he did. He only has 67. Fortunately he saved and managed to survive. Otherwise, game over.

Half+1 sucks. It is absolute crap. I know most people think it's fine and it's great but... I don't. BUT, I deal with it because that's what the majority of DM's use, unfortunately. If it was me, I'd be using the Way of the Wicked hit point method. That way, the minimum you get stuck with is Half+1. But at least you have a shot at rolling max without having to worry about a stinking 1.

If you two remember, markofbane and DW, Kriger kept rolling 3's and 4's on HP's and he had like 40 hp's at 6th level or some crap. It was less than the Set's summoner which use a d8. It was horrible. And because of my crappy rolling - which exist in every thread of mine - it's what ultimately led to us using Half+1. And also because of that - if I remember correctly - both Kalsgrim and Servayn actually lost hp's which wasn't fair to them. So I always felt bad about that.

Obviously half+1 is better than rolling(at least for me). But I totally feel it still hampers pc's and it still sucks and always will. Never, and I mean never, will I feel it's gamebreaking in ANY WAY, that a pc should have an opportunity to roll max hp's while at the same time not having to worry about rolling a 1,2, or 3(The d6 bothers me the least, but I would still prefer nothing less than a 3 on that).

Most folks(if not everyone) probably disagree with me on this, but, that just means they would be wrong. :)

Okay, enough ranting about that good stuff.

Basically, I don't feel these NPC's have to be altered. I think they prove enough challenge as is. If he starts out with that lightning bolt, somebody(or several somebodies) is gonna be hurt bad. Period. Barring evasion and none of us have that except for the familiar.

Because every time you rebuild them, you know our strengths and how to defend against them. And every enemy is gonna be prepared for us every time which really doesn't make sense at all and wouldn't be fair to us. That'd be like me going through each book of an AP(any AP), reading what it takes to beat the baddies, and then building my pc to where he's optimized vs. said baddies. It takes the challenge out of it and makes it not fun. I understand why you feel like you must do this but I feel like it's really unnecessary. These dudes are challenging enough as written.

Of course, we're never gonna know unless you run it that way.

Anyway, as I've said, this is all strictly my opinion and not worth the two cents I paid for it. It can be easily taken with a grain of salt.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

You know, I built this one pc on here(Darnak Deepstone) and he was a dwarf monk initially built at 18th level. So much freaking fun.

Anyway, I went into it with the sole purpose of having an awesome AC and at least good saves. I actually managed that but at the sacrifice of offense. It was so worth it though. The other 3 players compensated for the offense.

All his saves were above 20, and being a dwarf he has the hardy ability so that was taken into account.

But his AC, his AC was off the freaking charts. During combat, there were times I could get his AC up to 61. Sixty freaking one! It was so awesome. He couldn't be touched barring a 20 roll. There are very few creatures Paizo has come up with that can actually touch that. If I went total defense, it could reach up to 67.

Of course, my ability to hit did pay the price. I'd get a flurry of attacks and maybe hit like 3 times at best. My role was basically to be the bait. Come fight the dwarf while the others around him take you down. It was great. It didn't quite work out as well as all that but no one died, so that was good.

That was some good fun.


HP 56/67, AC 23/18/15, F/R/W 10/9/10, At: +12 1d6+5, Init: +4, Per: +1

Not much time for detail tonight - but I will mention a few bits.

Raveneau was taking a calculated risk in staying in the midst of the tentacles with a low HP total. He was banking on the black tentacles keeping Stroon from casting - which probably would have at least 75% or more of the time. It was only after those two rolls were successful that it turned into a save or die for Raveneau.

We had no deaths and won the day, that to me indicates that the tuning on the encounter was pretty good. It's a pivotal fight and should have had real risk of death on our side.

I don't think OM is making the enemies 'far overpowered' - I know that as written some of the big guys in the APs are fairly lacklustre. And again we openly and willingly walked into a situation where the enemy was set up completely for us. It therefore pays to reason that preventative measures were taken against known threats.

I don't agree with Javell on the 25 pt buy issue, and I personally find half +1 a good houserule for HP. Raveneau is a d8 Hit Dice class with a Con of 12 - of course he's going to go down quick :P I also played him recklessly and made him a prime target from the start - which exposed him to more risk - which I'm perfectly cool with.

Lastly - high level combat in pathfinder (especially with rules machines like magi) are complicated and hard. I'm more than willing to do what OM thinks necessary to ease the burden on his side (which includes steering clear of any spells / abilities that are cluster* when it comes to managing them).


Human Paladin 10 HPs 10/85, Sickened, AC 21 FF 19 T 13 CMD 23 Fort +17 Ref +13 Will +15 Init +2 Per +2

I've been thinking about what to add here, but I'm still struggling with what to contribute. I am enjoying high level play, and I've had very little of that. And part of my struggle with Kalsgrim is that inexperience at these levels. Going into that throne room, I should have recognized that investing divine bond and leading with his bow was a poor choice. I'll give it some more thought as far as the campaign in general goes.

Taldor

Kalsgrim Lodovka wrote:
I've been thinking about what to add here, but I'm still struggling with what to contribute. I am enjoying high level play, and I've had very little of that. And part of my struggle with Kalsgrim is that inexperience at these levels. Going into that throne room, I should have recognized that investing divine bond and leading with his bow was a poor choice. I'll give it some more thought as far as the campaign in general goes.

In a way, our general inexperience should make it easier for OM to run as-written.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Just a reminder that I'm away this week, so I can't keep things moving, regardless of my general reflection.

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