War of Immortals Errata thread

[ElementalofCuteness]

I think I will start off by pointing out something I don't know how many noticed.

Level 8 Exemplar Feat Additional Ikon (Pg 38 roughly)
Your story has grown rich enough that three ikons can’t
contain its full complexity. You gain a fourth ikon, which can
be of any type.

Does not have any prerequisites that you must already have three ikons and as such the Multiclass Exemplar can take this feat at level 16 and gain 1 additional ikon of any type.

[Calliope5431]

The 14th level feat Faultless Defense on pg. 127 imposes slowed 1 with no duration.

[Xenocrat]

Decree of Execution, Prophesied Monarch feat 18, as a critical failure condition purports to inflict "stunned 1 for 1 minute." That's not a thing the stunned condition can do, it's probably supposed to be slowed 1.

[Red Griffyn]

Basic Animist Spellcasting - has a copy paste error since it requires a cleric dedication to take the animist L4 feat.

[Gorgo Primus]

Animist Feat (16) - Monstrous Inclinations has a One Action icon, but it just gives you a spell for your repertoire. Surely this is a typo and you don’t have to spend an action to do this every day, right?

[Xethik]

The Vindicator Mark focus spell is missing the attack trait.

[graystone]

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

I think I will start off by pointing out something I don't know how many noticed.

Level 8 Exemplar Feat Additional Ikon (Pg 38 roughly)
Your story has grown rich enough that three ikons can’t
contain its full complexity. You gain a fourth ikon, which can
be of any type.

Does not have any prerequisites that you must already have three ikons and as such the Multiclass Exemplar can take this feat at level 16 and gain 1 additional ikon of any type.

It doesn't get you 1 extra/additional Ikon but a 4th one. You can't HAVE a 4th one, if you don't have 3 others... It's just how English works, so I don't see that this needs any errata as it gives its prerequisites in its wording. I can't see how someone could claim that they can gain a 4th Ikon through the multiclass archetype with a straight face.

[Spamotron]

graystone wrote:

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

I think I will start off by pointing out something I don't know how many noticed.

Level 8 Exemplar Feat Additional Ikon (Pg 38 roughly)
Your story has grown rich enough that three ikons can’t
contain its full complexity. You gain a fourth ikon, which can
be of any type.

Does not have any prerequisites that you must already have three ikons and as such the Multiclass Exemplar can take this feat at level 16 and gain 1 additional ikon of any type.

It doesn't get you 1 extra/additional Ikon but a 4th one. You can't HAVE a 4th one, if you don't have 3 others... It's just how English works, so I don't see that this needs any errata as it gives its prerequisites in its wording. I can't see how someone could claim that they can gain a 4th Ikon through the multiclass archetype with a straight face.

The Devs have said in the past that they only care that someone found something confusing enough to bring to their attention. They don't care about or want disenting replies questioning if something is "really," in need of errata because it clogs up the thread and makes the posts they're interested in harder to find.

[graystone]

Spamotron wrote:

The Devs have said in the past that they only care that someone found something confusing enough to bring to their attention.

I think that someone stating that they DIDN'T think it confusing is as valuable when it's not about a factual error. If you wish to not see this thread clogged up, then don't post about someone else's post in it.

[Zoken44]

graystone wrote:

It doesn't get you 1 extra/additional Ikon but a 4th one. You can't HAVE a 4th one, if you don't have 3 others... It's just how English works, so I don't see that this needs any errata as it gives its prerequisites in its wording. I can't see how someone could claim that they can gain a 4th Ikon through the multiclass archetype with a straight face.

Alternate understanding, and why it probably does need errata. If it grants you a 4th Ikon, that implies you also get a second and third so that you can have a fourth. all from one feat.

Am I stretch there, yeah, but the language is unclear. Elemental is right. Clarity is best.

[Xenocrat]

Paizo does try to sell to customers with a wide range of reading comprehension abilities (the Starfinder “can solar flare take a soulfire weapon fusion” episode showed how rare the ability to simply diagram a basic sentence is today), so while this isn’t necessarily from a grammatical point of view they may find it useful from a business perspective.

[ElementalofCuteness]

Maybe it is not that big of a deal but I know many people would argue based upon the name alone Additional Ikon, despite the wording it grants you in essence 1 addition Ikon the flavor text is simply stating it granting you a fourth Ikon because they didn't expect Exemplar MC to pick up an additional Ikon. You could intrepid the text to be it's own stop-gap measure or you could intrepid it as granting an additional Ikon because Exemplars start with 3 unless Multiclassed into Exemplar.

[CorvusMask]

I say Agyra and Oliphant need ability like Mu Spore's Enormous that increases their size to 50 feet and 80 feet respectively. This is very important thing to errata xD

(yes oliphaunt was 80 feet space creature in 1e. Yes I want that back xD)

[Xenocrat]

CorvusMask wrote:

I say Agyra and Oliphant need ability like Mu Spore's Enormous that increases their size to 50 feet and 80 feet respectively. This is very important thing to errata xD

(yes oliphaunt was 80 feet space creature in 1e. Yes I want that back xD)

This but quadruple it all.

[Calliope5431]

CorvusMask wrote:

I say Agyra and Oliphant need ability like Mu Spore's Enormous that increases their size to 50 feet and 80 feet respectively. This is very important thing to errata xD

(yes oliphaunt was 80 feet space creature in 1e. Yes I want that back xD)

Hilariously, a Mu Spore can as written currently swallow both the Oliphant and Agyra. I don't know why but that's just so funny to me.

[Tridus]

Zoken44 wrote:

graystone wrote:

It doesn't get you 1 extra/additional Ikon but a 4th one. You can't HAVE a 4th one, if you don't have 3 others... It's just how English works, so I don't see that this needs any errata as it gives its prerequisites in its wording. I can't see how someone could claim that they can gain a 4th Ikon through the multiclass archetype with a straight face.

Alternate understanding, and why it probably does need errata. If it grants you a 4th Ikon, that implies you also get a second and third so that you can have a fourth. all from one feat.

Am I stretch there, yeah, but the language is unclear. Elemental is right. Clarity is best.

Me as a software developer thinking "oh it grants you a 4th one while you only have a 1st one, so you get this array of ikons":

1 ikon
2 null
3 null
4 ikon

Definitely would have worked better across the board if it just said "you gain +1 ikon", or if they don't intend the archetype to be able to take it, add a requirement that you have 3 ikons. As it stands right now it's going to force a GM to figure out what happens, though I doubt "you gain 3 ikons" will be the common interpretation.

Those will either be "you can't take it", or "it actually means you gain +1 ikon".

[ElementalofCuteness]

Also from the rules on AoN for stunning Stunning Rules. It does state this "Stunned might also have a duration instead, such as “stunned for 1 minute,” causing you to lose all your actions for the duration." so Decree of Execution can indeed permanently stun a creature for 1 minute. However with the incapacitate trait that's unlikely.

[Xenocrat]

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

Also from the rules on AoN for stunning Stunning Rules. It does state this "Stunned might also have a duration instead, such as “stunned for 1 minute,” causing you to lose all your actions for the duration." so Decree of Execution can indeed permanently stun a creature for 1 minute. However with the incapacitate trait that's unlikely.

Yes, it can "stun for 1 minute." It cannot, however, "stun 1 for 1 minute." The latter is what it purports to do.

You either stun, full stop, for a given duration, or you stun with a value (like 1, 2, or 500). You don't mix and match.

[Calliope5431]

On pg. 168:

War of Immortals wrote:

Mythic Immunity (23rd): The creature is immune to either harmful spells cast by non-mythic creatures, or Strikes made with non-mythic weapons and unarmed Strikes from non-mythic characters. Only the most powerful creatures (typically level 25) should be immune to both.

Vulot (pg. 178), a creature 21, has the following immunities:

War of Immortals wrote:

Mythic Immunity: Vulot is immune to harmful spells cast by non-mythic creatures, Strikes made with non-mythic weapons, and unarmed Strikes from non-mythic characters.

Since Vulot is not level 23, let alone level 25, this violates the level guidelines for this ability.

Verex-that-was (pg. 207) also has immunity to both strikes and spells despite only being level 24, however that seems more intended than Vulot.

Obviously these are only the guidelines for the template, rather than ironclad rules - but I thought I'd post it here just in case it actually was an error.

[Ravingdork]

The Proteankin lineage feat (p53) of the Nephilim versatile heritage says "You gain resistance to a single damage type equal to half your level..." but fails to mention "minimum 1" in parenthesis like many similar abilities. This means that the feat literally does nothing at level 1.

There doesn't seem to be anything in the Bloodrager Dedication feat (p60) that prevents a player from choosing both an arcane AND a divine cantrip, thereby allowing them to benefit from training in both the Arcana AND Religion skills from the same feat.

[thracks]

For all bloodrager feats it should be arcana and religion prerequisites not occultism. It should be consistent with the forced learned skill.

[zcallison]

Mythic Counterspell (level 6 feat) requires a level 7 skill feat (Quick Recognition) to accept. Steal Magic (level 8 feat) requires Mythic Counterspell.

Meaning RAW I cannot take Steal Magic until 10th level, losing my 10th level choice or later - losing out on other choices.

Is Quick Recognition the actual requirement, and if so - is it too high of a level?

[Laclale♪]

Not actual errata, but can memorized formula shorten the time of setting up for the Worldforge?

[animixplay3]

This thread is dedicated to tracking and clarifying any rules, card text, or character ability updates for War of Immortals. Whether you’re a new player or a seasoned veteran, this is the place to post any errors or ambiguities you've found, along with any updates that clarify these points

[Old_Man_Robot]

The 14th level Archfiend feat, Manipulate Realm, seems to be in error.

The feat doesn't grant the player the ability to use the listed actions beyond the initial use when they manifest their realm. Each action has a trigger of "Your previous action was to Sustain your manifested realm".

The intention seems to be that you can perform one of the 3 listed free actions when you sustain your realm each round, and you can spend a mythic point when you first manifest your realm to use one as well. However the feat doesn't actually enable or allow this.

So, on the whole, the feat doesn't actually seem to work.

[Laclale♪]

Would be better if Assurance and Mythic prof can be used in same check.

[Candlejake]

The epiphet "Restless as the Tide" would damage yourself if you do it with a melee weapon. Considering that wilding hands has a sentence on you being immune to its splash damage (kinda annoying that it still damages your allies) i would imagine this should have the same line of text? Or i guess its just for ranged weapons.

[ElementalofCuteness]

Why does Hands of the Wilding deal Splash damage which can hurt your flanking buddies anyways?

[graystone]

Haft Striker Stance could use clarification on what weapons can be used with it. It has "Requirements You are wielding a two-handed hammer, spear, or polearm."

Does this mean a two-handed hammer, a two-handed spear, or a two-handed polearm? Or does it mean a [two-handed hammer], a [spear], or a [polearm]?

Then we also have the question about the spear if it's reading #2, as spear is a specific weapon AND a weapon group. And on the flipside, if it's #1, is it meant to work with weapons you can wield in 2 hands like an earthbreaker [Two-Hand d10] or even a normal Spear used in 2 hands? I really do hate when they word things like this.

[PossibleCabbage]

I'm pretty sure Haft Striker stance requires you to wield the weapon in two hands, so a phrasing of "You are wielding a two-handed weapon in the spear, hammer, or polearm group" could work.

[graystone]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I'm pretty sure Haft Striker stance requires you to wield the weapon in two hands, so a phrasing of "You are wielding a two-handed weapon in the spear, hammer, or polearm group" could work.

Yes, that'll work. I assumed it was meant to be read that way but the way it's loosely worded just leaves it open to the other reading that would let you use it 1 handed with a spear. ;)

[ElementalofCuteness]

TWIN STARS FEAT 1
EXEMPLAR IKON
Usage: imbued into a one-handed weapon ikon
Your divine spark embodies a primordial duality, and your ikon
splits itself accordingly into two corresponding halves. You
can use an Interact action to split the imbued ikon into two
copies of itself, which both gain the twin trait; these copies are
identical except for one mirrored feature, such as a sun motif
on one and a moon motif on another. You can use this ability
again to fuse the two halves back into their original form. As
these are both manifestations of the same object, your divine
spark empowers the two halves as if they were a single ikon.

I have to ask, what happens when your Ikon becomes deimbued with your Divine Spark?

[Laclale♪]

About re-adding of faultspawn: Can they have dominion aura?

[shroudb]

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

TWIN STARS FEAT 1

EXEMPLAR IKON
Usage: imbued into a one-handed weapon ikon
Your divine spark embodies a primordial duality, and your ikon
splits itself accordingly into two corresponding halves. You
can use an Interact action to split the imbued ikon into two
copies of itself, which both gain the twin trait; these copies are
identical except for one mirrored feature, such as a sun motif
on one and a moon motif on another. You can use this ability
again to fuse the two halves back into their original form. As
these are both manifestations of the same object, your divine
spark empowers the two halves as if they were a single ikon.

I have to ask, what happens when your Ikon becomes deimbued with your Divine Spark?

Imbued in X for Ikon feats is a choice you make when you gain the feat.

Twin Stars effect is not an Immanence effect but a passive effect on the imbued Ikon, where your spark is doesn't matter.

[ElementalofCuteness]

Yes but it needs clarification as it is a little confusing to my dm and myself.

[Dubious Scholar]

Eye-Catching Spot states that you using hostile actions against the target's allies doesn't end the effect, but it doesn't prevent it from being ended by your allies' actions, so the Fascinated condition is going to probably end immediately as soon as an ally gets a turn anyways.

Needs to also include allies in that exception probably?

[Xenocrat]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Eye-Catching Spot states that you using hostile actions against the target's allies doesn't end the effect, but it doesn't prevent it from being ended by your allies' actions, so the Fascinated condition is going to probably end immediately as soon as an ally gets a turn anyways.

Needs to also include allies in that exception probably?

I can only imagine this as an out of combat use to help the steal or palm an object epithets work more reliably.

[Red Griffyn]

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

TWIN STARS FEAT 1

EXEMPLAR IKON
Usage: imbued into a one-handed weapon ikon Your divine spark embodies a primordial duality, and your ikon splits itself accordingly into two corresponding halves. You can use an Interact action to split the imbued ikon into two copies of itself, which both gain the twin trait; these copies are identical except for one mirrored feature, such as a sun motif on one and a moon motif on another. You can use this ability again to fuse the two halves back into their original form. As these are both manifestations of the same object, your divine spark empowers the two halves as if they were a single ikon.

I have to ask, what happens when your Ikon becomes deimbued with your Divine Spark?

Lets look at the rules text for divine spark/ikons:

Quote:

Within your soul is a tiny spark of divine power that belongs not to a deity, but is something you’ve claimed all your own. You can focus this divine power through special items known as ikons. Ikons are items or bodily features intrinsically linked to you—sacred vessels forged from your divinity that are capable of conducting its power. Select three ikons from the list on pages 43–47. By placing your divine spark into one of your ikons, you empower that ikon to accomplish deeds beyond what it could in mortal hands. Each ikon has both a passive immanence effect and an active transcendence effect. Both of these effects require your divine spark to be in the item. You can place your spark into an ikon by using the Shift Immanence action.

The Twin Stars feat is neither a passive immanence effect or an active transcendence effect. Therefore when your spark leaves it you do not lose the effect of the feat because those are the only things that require active spark. I think this is a case of specific vs. general as clearly from the wording you need the spark to split or combine weapons (despite not having immanence or transcendence traits).

The other argument for this interpretation is that this would be a terrible feat if you had to use an action tax every time. The class is designed around transcending once per round. If you had to basically be slowed 1 to use this feat it would be make the main benefit of the feat nearly impossible to use. Twin requires 2 attacks, so if you have to transcend for 1 action + split for 1 action you need a one action to attack twice (which doesn't exist in class without the L6 once per combat feat to be quickened for a round). That is too anti-synergistic for me to think its the RAI.

The only people that would really benefit with a "need spark in it ruling" are multiclass builds that don't have an icon to transcend with and thus are effectively gaining the twin trait for a L4 multiclass feat.

[Perpdepog]

This may not be an error, necessarily, but I'm pretty sure Verex-That-Was is meant to have the Unholy trait.

[Dubious Scholar]

It's not wrong, exactly...

but Earth's Bile should probably be reworked to be Heightened+1 somehow. Focus spells for damage should never be Heightened+2. (Animist can swap them out a bit easier than most, but there's not really any replacement for it, so it still runs into the usual issues of focus spells there)

[Red Griffyn]

I'm a little confused on how you actually get a 'weapon ikon' to apply to your unarmed strikes. The text says:

Quote:

Weapon and worn ikons are tied to items of power. When you select one, you gain a non-magical, level-0 item of your choice that matches its usage entry. Providence ensures you come across these items; you might be traveling along a path to find a spear in a tree that only you can dislodge, or you might awaken holding a gleaming sash you saw in your dreams.

Your ikons can be etched with runes, upgraded, or otherwise modified as normal for items of their type. A body or worn ikon can have runes etched on it to apply to your unarmed attacks as though it were handwraps of mighty blows, though only one of your ikons can have these runes and no ikon can have both these and armor or weapon runes.

Quote:

Usage a melee free-hand weapon or a melee unarmed Strike

Usage a weapon in the sword or knife group, or a melee unarmed attack that deals slashing damage

So do you have to:

- call out an explicit unarmed attack
- do you have to pseduo hold some random object to empower your unarmed strike (or strikes) that can't just be handwraps since they aren't a worn/body ikon
- can you just add it to handwraps and treat it like the 'simple weapon' it describes in the items description (typically limited to applying runes only).

I'm inclined to think that its option 3 and it applies to all applicable unarmed strikes you might get from a stance, ancestry option, graft, etc.

[shroudb]

Red Griffyn wrote:

I'm a little confused on how you actually get a 'weapon ikon' to apply to your unarmed strikes. The text says:

Quote:

Weapon and worn ikons are tied to items of power. When you select one, you gain a non-magical, level-0 item of your choice that matches its usage entry. Providence ensures you come across these items; you might be traveling along a path to find a spear in a tree that only you can dislodge, or you might awaken holding a gleaming sash you saw in your dreams.

Your ikons can be etched with runes, upgraded, or otherwise modified as normal for items of their type. A body or worn ikon can have runes etched on it to apply to your unarmed attacks as though it were handwraps of mighty blows, though only one of your ikons can have these runes and no ikon can have both these and armor or weapon runes.

Quote:

Usage a melee free-hand weapon or a melee unarmed Strike

Usage a weapon in the sword or knife group, or a melee unarmed attack that deals slashing damage

So do you have to:

- call out an explicit unarmed attack
- do you have to pseduo hold some random object to empower your unarmed strike (or strikes) that can't just be handwraps since they aren't a worn/body ikon
- can you just add it to handwraps and treat it like the 'simple weapon' it describes in the items description (typically limited to applying runes only).

I'm inclined to think that its option 3 and it applies to all applicable unarmed strikes you might get from a stance, ancestry option, graft, etc.

There are examples in the Ikons how to do that.

As an example in Hands of the Wilding Ikon you have:
"Tattooed fists, savage claws, or even powerful gauntlets—you
swing each with the fury of an animal from the woods."

Each Ikon is specific. So, if you want to use Gleaming Blade on your Claws, it only affects you Claws, and etc.

How you flavor it being only to them, it's up to you, it could be etchings, symbols, wolverine-like metal coverings, engravings, etc, but it's ONLY those specific Claws.

[Xenocrat]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

It's not wrong, exactly...

but Earth's Bile should probably be reworked to be Heightened+1 somehow. Focus spells for damage should never be Heightened+2.

It’s +2 because of the single action sustain and moveable AOE on top of wanting two damage types/dies.

The amped Daze laughs at this assertion.

[Dubious Scholar]

Xenocrat wrote:

Dubious Scholar wrote:

It's not wrong, exactly...

but Earth's Bile should probably be reworked to be Heightened+1 somehow. Focus spells for damage should never be Heightened+2.

It’s +2 because of the single action sustain and moveable AOE on top of wanting two damage types/dies.

The amped Daze laughs at this assertion.

Well, no - it's pretty much just the two damage types. If it was pure fire damage it would have definitely been +1.

But it makes the spell's power fluctuate a lot based on your level - it's much better at levels 5-6 than 7-8 because it's not keeping up with enemy HP the way it would if it was +1. And because focus spells are locked in a way normal spells aren't you can't just swap to a different blasting spell for the off levels the way you can for something like Force Barrage.

[pauljathome]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

And because focus spells are locked in a way normal spells aren't you can't just swap to a different blasting spell for the off levels the way you can for something like Force Barrage.

Uh, you're an Animist. If you don't like your focus spells for a level or 2 then swap for something that you prefer.

Although (probably with the exception of level 3-4) being down 2d4 isn't THAT huge a deal for your one action sustainable spell :-)

[Eiyuuou1995]

Exemplar lvl 20 feat: Cutting Without Blade

You can place your divine spark into any object in your possession, even a nonthreatening object like a single strand of grass, to transform it into a fully functional copy of your ikon made out of pure divine radiance. You can do this as a free action immediately before or after Striking with or otherwise using the ikon.

Does using this free action count as Shift Immanence? Since that is described as "You shift your power, filling one of your ikons with your divine spark."

If so, would this theoretically mean you can keep switching back to your weapon Ikon every turn?

[Dubious Scholar]

Hurl at the Horizon: Imbued into a throw or melee weapon ikon
Shadow Sheathe: A holster or sheathe for a one-handed...

It seems to me that the upgrade for throwing range should work with the dedicated throwing weapons ikon. But technically as written... it doesn't seem to qualify?

[ElementalofCuteness]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Hurl at the Horizon: Imbued into a throw or melee weapon ikon

Shadow Sheathe: A holster or sheathe for a one-handed...

It seems to me that the upgrade for throwing range should work with the dedicated throwing weapons ikon. But technically as written... it doesn't seem to qualify?

You imbue this in a Starknife or Javelin you can throw it farther.

------------------------------

As a side note what is he Usage suppose to be for anyways in the Exemplar feats? They are prerequisites so from a previous post I made can I just imbue the bonus immenence feats into my ikons even if they aren't useable?

Hurl at the Horizon is a good example of one such feat which as long as your Divine Spark in in your weapon it gains the thrown 10ft Trait, does this make the weapon a Thrown weapon now for other later feats for Exemplar?

[shroudb]

ElementalofCuteness wrote:

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Hurl at the Horizon: Imbued into a throw or melee weapon ikon

Shadow Sheathe: A holster or sheathe for a one-handed...

It seems to me that the upgrade for throwing range should work with the dedicated throwing weapons ikon. But technically as written... it doesn't seem to qualify?

You imbue this in a Starknife or Javelin you can throw it farther.

------------------------------

As a side note what is he Usage suppose to be for anyways in the Exemplar feats? They are prerequisites so from a previous post I made can I just imbue the bonus immenence feats into my ikons even if they aren't useable?

Hurl at the Horizon is a good example of one such feat which as long as your Divine Spark in in your weapon it gains the thrown 10ft Trait, does this make the weapon a Thrown weapon now for other later feats for Exemplar?

Imbued is explained in the sidebar:

"A feat with the ikon trait imbues one of your ikons with further capabilities. Whenever you gain a feat with the ikon trait, choose which of your ikons gains that ability; if you have multiple ikons that meet the feat’s usage requirements, you can take the feat multiple times to apply its effects to another one of your ikons. These feats list what ikon they can be imbued into, and any number of them can be imbued into a single ikon."

Which means it's a decision made when you get the Feat as long as the item fulfils the Imbue requirements.

Which is why you CANNOT Imbue the Sheath with stuff like Hurl to the Horizon (the Sheath itself is not a thrown weapon, you need the actual weapon to be the Ikon to give it Hurl).