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EDIT 2: The Esoteric Order of the Palatine Eye has apparently tapped into divine power in some sort of unusual way, with a related Archetype.
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The Palatine Detective. Luis said that it is an Investigator class archetype. I'm hopeful that it will be something along the lines of the PF1 Psychic Detective.
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I'm hoping for a Warlord from the Commander, a proper aggro-drawing tank in the Guardian, and for this mystery book to basically just have the stealth subtitle of "Hey, 4e Actually Had Some Good Ideas" :p
I mean, Pathfinder 2nd edition identified all the same problems with 3.x that 4e did, it just went about solving them in some different ways (like focus points instead of encounter powers.)
But I figure the Commander is going to be the "smart martial" for those who find the Inventor and Investigator don't fill the thematic niche they're looking for. The Guardian is probably going to be the answer to "why do I have to be super-religious to get legendary proficiency in heavy armor?"
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Yes! Do we think the Commander will be a sort of Warlord type, iterating on some of the ideas they had with the Envoy? And Guardian - the name makes me think it's a defensive type, but that's so open ended, and really it doesn't HAVE to be that.I'm hoping for a Warlord from the Commander, a proper aggro-drawing tank in the Guardian, and for this mystery book to basically just have the stealth subtitle of "Hey, 4e Actually Had Some Good Ideas" :p
Your heresy has been noted ;)
What are you excommunicating her for?! She's RIGHT! :P
Excommunicating?
No, no, nothing so forgiving :P
(Jokes aside, edition wars are dumb, but I must say, 4E was remarkably light on anything I consider salvageable)
Oh, was there any mention of what the "changes to the Prismatic Ray" would be? Or what's up with Arazni?
I am too. He was my number-two-sometimes-number-one-ish, but apart from that he really does feel like a natural fit. I also just love the idea that he gets to empower a new generation of divine warriors after his passing; I think that'd make him happy, or whatever version of happiness Gorum has.
I also like the image of his clerics all freaking out about losing their powers after his fall, only to discover they've all become exemplars, instead; I really, really hope we have heavily armored exemplar options now.
Gorum feels like he would be contented to go down fighting something incredibly dangerous, since every warrior knows there's eventually going to be a fight they're not going to walk away from. So I just hope his end involves "fighting something really scary, and dying" and not like treachery.
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Yes! Do we think the Commander will be a sort of Warlord type, iterating on some of the ideas they had with the Envoy? And Guardian - the name makes me think it's a defensive type, but that's so open ended, and really it doesn't HAVE to be that.I'm hoping for a Warlord from the Commander, a proper aggro-drawing tank in the Guardian, and for this mystery book to basically just have the stealth subtitle of "Hey, 4e Actually Had Some Good Ideas" :pYour heresy has been noted ;)Why are you excommunicating her?! She's RIGHT!!! :P
I'm seemingly getting two of my 4e favorites here: a Warlord class and a big metaplot event driven by divine murder!
Folks, I am feasting. If only the Godsrain mutated those it touched...
Oh, was there any mention of what the "changes to the Prismatic Ray" would be? Or what's up with Arazni?
There were not.
I don't know if Arazni's ascension to prominence is going to involve much more than "there's a remarkable uptick in acknowledgement of the God of Surviving Against the Odds" during the events of the Godsrain and its fallout.
Like this is a dangerous time to be an immortal, but an especially dangerous time to be mortal.
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Yes! Do we think the Commander will be a sort of Warlord type, iterating on some of the ideas they had with the Envoy? And Guardian - the name makes me think it's a defensive type, but that's so open ended, and really it doesn't HAVE to be that.I'm hoping for a Warlord from the Commander, a proper aggro-drawing tank in the Guardian, and for this mystery book to basically just have the stealth subtitle of "Hey, 4e Actually Had Some Good Ideas" :pYour heresy has been noted ;)Why are you excommunicating her?! She's RIGHT!!! :PI'm seemingly getting two of my 4e favorites here: a Warlord class and a big metaplot event driven by divine murder!
Folks, I am feasting. If only the Godsrain mutated those it touched...
I don't think they've said it doesn't, and if what's happening to Varix That Was is any indication, maybe it does?
Relistening now to catch one detail I'd missed before: Sturovenen dies preventing a piece of the Godsrain from being used to re-open the Worldwound. He apparently explodes into a rainbow seen across Sarkoris.
:C
Makes sense, those Sarkorians have had it too good for too long. (/j of course)
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So, best guess for Arazni; she gets enough Gorum-aid to cast raise dead on herself and decides that his seat rightfully belongs to her. Nobody really contests this, and the Gorumites figure hey, they have plenty of reasons to want to feel dignified and avenge themselves on Gorum's murderer, so they start changing out their (un)holy symbols.
Two weeks later, a frantic Red Queen shows up on Iomedae's doorstep, clearly not having slept that entire period, asking how the Abaddon she deals with having a major religion all praying to her at once.
I love that concept, although I don't think it'll play out like that, if only because "ideas that can be properly conveyed in a three-sentence forum post" and "ideas that can be properly conveyed in an AP" don't have much overlap (there's SOME, but the odds are against it).
Still, that gives me a thought... what if Arazni is at like ground zero of Gorum's death? If DROPS of his blood can give mortals powers, imagine what more it could do if you're right beside him as the life leaves his body, possibly bathed in it. And that'd also explain how she gains enough recognition to become one of the top 20 most-known deities in the Inner Seas region; if she's there for such a major event, possibly suspected of his murder or acknowledged as taking vengeance on his killer or some other thing I'm not thinking of right now.
I wonder if we weren't limited to just 20. How would people define the pantheons of the gods.
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I wonder if we weren't limited to just 20. How would people define the pantheons of the gods.
In general, the cultural zones of the Inner Sea seem more henotheistic than genuinely polytheistic, and the "pantheon" is therefore a bit shaky.
Cheliax and Nidal are both very strongly in the pockets of one primary state deity, and the Padishah Empire of Kelesh likewise pays primary devotion to a singular divinity, even though the existence and relative merits of other gods are acknowledged there.
More broadly, you have deities who associate into mini-pantheons out of affection (the Prismatic Ray), you have deities associated by blood ties who therefore form a sort of family concern (Shelyn and Zonny-boy, or the dwarven deities), you have what are pretty clearly mortal-orchestrated sub-pantheons like the Godclaw or the Cosmic Caravan, but Inner Sea theology is pretty fast and loose.
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My latest crackpot theory is that the Riders of the Apocalypse (and maybe the Bound Prince) are involved, especially Szuriel (the Rider of War who sometimes receives messages from the Archdevil General of Hell BTW). So, the Core20 who will die would then likely be Gorum or Lamashtu.
I would say Gorum because of all the portents of war.
And maybe we will finally get out Daemon AP.
...are we sure prophecy is broken? ;)
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...are we sure prophecy is broken? ;)My latest crackpot theory is that the Riders of the Apocalypse (and maybe the Bound Prince) are involved, especially Szuriel (the Rider of War who sometimes receives messages from the Archdevil General of Hell BTW). So, the Core20 who will die would then likely be Gorum or Lamashtu.
I would say Gorum because of all the portents of war.
And maybe we will finally get out Daemon AP.
Yeah, wow, congrats to TRB there.
Also one of our biggest Gorum fans, so I hope they're having an okay day!
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I am now wildly curious if my baby Szuriel (assuming she's the one who kills Gorum) did it on her own design or if she was hired to do it by another power, be it a deity or otherwise.
I'm super excited to see this all play out as things get released! <3
Also I would murder if it let me do a daemon-themed AP. Just saying!
We've heard rumblings that the Godsrain reveals a previously unknown threat in Pathfinder and changes the basic assumptions of the setting, so it would be something as simple as "Szuriel figures out something about this new source of power, goads Gorum into a a fight (because how hard is that, really), and Gorum gets hit by something he absolutely wouldn't have expected in a million years."
Note that the hole in Gorum's armor in the image is in the front (and it doesn't look like an exit wound.) Most likely Gorum trusts his armor to hold up against nearly anything, and this was a bad assumption.
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Okay, huge relief that it wasn't Saranrae. I had pretty much convinced myself that it would be her. Phew.
As for Gorum... well, I hope he is replaced with a more interesting war god one day. I assume nobody is taking his portfolio for a while, unless Szuriel is stepping up immediately. Which... wouldn't be good, since she is no joke in terms of her, erm, how do we call alignment now?
As for the two new classes, agnostic about them so far. Both sound like interesting concepts, although I kinda wonder what the new Guardian will be about, since the Champion already exists.
Stoked for the novel and the AP's, though.
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Yes! Do we think the Commander will be a sort of Warlord type, iterating on some of the ideas they had with the Envoy? And Guardian - the name makes me think it's a defensive type, but that's so open ended, and really it doesn't HAVE to be that.I'm hoping for a Warlord from the Commander, a proper aggro-drawing tank in the Guardian, and for this mystery book to basically just have the stealth subtitle of "Hey, 4e Actually Had Some Good Ideas" :pYour heresy has been noted ;)Why are you excommunicating her?! She's RIGHT!!! :PI'm seemingly getting two of my 4e favorites here: a Warlord class and a big metaplot event driven by divine murder!
Folks, I am feasting. If only the Godsrain mutated those it touched...
... Isn't that the Examplers?
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... Isn't that the Examplers?Yes! Do we think the Commander will be a sort of Warlord type, iterating on some of the ideas they had with the Envoy? And Guardian - the name makes me think it's a defensive type, but that's so open ended, and really it doesn't HAVE to be that.I'm hoping for a Warlord from the Commander, a proper aggro-drawing tank in the Guardian, and for this mystery book to basically just have the stealth subtitle of "Hey, 4e Actually Had Some Good Ideas" :pYour heresy has been noted ;)Why are you excommunicating her?! She's RIGHT!!! :PI'm seemingly getting two of my 4e favorites here: a Warlord class and a big metaplot event driven by divine murder!
Folks, I am feasting. If only the Godsrain mutated those it touched...
Yes, but I'll note that keftiu's choice of the word 'mutated' probably wasn't incidental. Nahoa is big and burly, but well within expectations for a buff fantasy human with demon blood.
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My lord in iron......I WITNESS YOU!!!
MEDIOCRE!
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So, Paizo has often mentioned that they see their books as building blocks, with each new book helping to build towards a future release.
So with that in mind, did I hear correctly during the stream that we will be following the two new iconics as they travel to Southern Garund in the War of Immortals book? Now, if I heard that correctly, I understand that is not an announcement of a Southern Garund book, but oh the implications…
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Something I haven’t seen mentioned from the stream:
Followers of the gods will be going to war in many places around Golarion.
And Gorum’s death is going to happen on screen for tables.
The first of the Godsrain APs is going to start before it, but be heavily affected by it:Curtain call, an AP set in Kintargo, involving a lot of diplomacy. I think Cheliax is going to war with Nidal.
I wonder if war between Taldor and the Kelish empire breaks out, creating incredible strains between Shelyn and Sarenrae?
I didn't even know there would be this stream today! Was it announced on the website? Will it be uploaded on YouTube?
Now that Gorum's death is confirmed, does that mean The Godsrain Prophecies are over and there will be no part eleven?
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The first of the Godsrain APs is going to start before it, but be heavily affected by it:Curtain call, an AP set in Kintargo, involving a lot of diplomacy. I think Cheliax is going to war with Nidal.
There is no theory or strategy under which this is a good idea for either party. Cheliax doesn't need more enemies and a Nidalese alliance gets it everything it could want from direct rule without the cost of persistent and ultimately successful rebellions by the erstwhile government. Likewise Nidal faces no significant threats besides Cheliax given its treaty with Oprak and the natural barriers in the way of Molthune (and the natural barriers in the way of Cheliax are equally formidable unless it is permitted to base forces in Ravounel), and a Chelish alliance secures its independence. So if it happens it'll be because the states were forced into it -- either by the patrons to which they are respectively subordinate (i.e., Z-K and Asmo have a falling-out and either draw their proxies into their fight or decide to fight through their proxies); or by their enemies (e.g., Ravounel provokes Nidal into attacking, and somehow draws Cheliax into defending, it). The latter would be a bad stratagem on the part of Ravounel, however, even if it worked. Rule number one for small powers is never to invite great power influence.
If the gods start vying for the power unleashed by the gods rain, and that power can be used at a social level, I think you will see old alliances changing. Besides, the only thing we know about curtain call is that there is going to be a lot of diplomacy involved. I think there is a very strong possibility that at least 1 neighbor is getting dragged into a war.
I'm intrigued by this new deity Aleph. Finally getting a non-evil deity of darkness (and maybe shadow?) would be nice.
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I'm intrigued by this new deity Aleph. Finally getting a non-evil deity of darkness (and maybe shadow?) would be nice.
There is Nocticula, who in 2e is CN. But another would be great for Nidal. I rather like the idea of playing characters who are Nidalese, who are proud of their culture, but also want to turn it away from zon-kuthon to another shadow and darkness deity.
Creative Director
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I'm intrigued by this new deity Aleph. Finally getting a non-evil deity of darkness (and maybe shadow?) would be nice.
For sure... but we've had Nocticula as a non-evil deity of darkness (in the form of midnight, but she does grant the darkness domain) since the start of 2nd edition.
EDIT: Ninjaed by vyshan! But still, yup!
Huh. For some reason I had thought Nocticula was evil. Regardless, her lust component and backstory aren't very appealing to me. I'm hoping that Aleph has more of a Nyx vibe.
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Huh. For some reason I had thought Nocticula was evil. Regardless, her lust component and backstory aren't very appealing to me. I'm hoping that Aleph has more of a Nyx vibe.
She shed lust as a primary concern when she shed her demonic ties.
Artists, outcasts, and the glories of midnight are her focus as a deity.
The Redeemer Queen is a very different person now.
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I'm intrigued by this new deity Aleph. Finally getting a non-evil deity of darkness (and maybe shadow?) would be nice.For sure... but we've had Nocticula as a non-evil deity of darkness (in the form of midnight, but she does grant the darkness domain) since the start of 2nd edition.
EDIT: Ninjaed by vyshan! But still, yup!
Technically, Nocticula as a non-evil deity of darkness predates Second Edition and the Lost Omens Campaign Setting, if only just. She appeared as such in Vaughan, et al., Pathfinder Adventure Path #138: Rise of New Thassilon, at *79 (2019):
In Eurythnia, the church of Nocticula as the Redeemer Queen doesn't quite wield the power of a state religion, but its open-arms policy encouraging acceptance of artists and exiles dovetails perfectly with Sorshen's new outlook. Most of the Redeemer Queen's clerics are chaotic neutral, though she also allows those of chaotic good alignment to join her clergy. She does not, however, accept clerics who are chaotic evil. A cleric of Nocticula gains access to the domains of Artifice, Chaos, Darkness, Travel, and Void (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 6 319), and to the subdomains of ExplorationAPG, IsolationISG, MoonISG, NightAPG, RevelryISG, and WhimsyISG. The holy symbol of the goddess is a moon with a pair of lips at its center and a seven-pointed crown behind it. Nocticula's favored weapon is the dagger.
Huh. For some reason I had thought Nocticula was evil. Regardless, her lust component and backstory aren't very appealing to me. I'm hoping that Aleph has more of a Nyx vibe.She shed lust as a primary concern when she shed her demonic ties.
Artists, outcasts, and the glories of midnight are her focus as a deity.
The Redeemer Queen is a very different person now.
That is much more appealing. Thanks for the info. :)
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All of this is hammering home that we need to get Tsukiyo more press :P
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Tsukiyo is one of our favorites.