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4) Have a feat that give your Blast the Modular (B, P, S) trait. Seriously, make it LESS confusing, and for Fire, if people ask, you can cut and stab stuff with a blowtorch and the concept of "hard light" can apply to Fire.
This already exists as a level 1 feat.
Weapon Infusion
" You can choose to change the blast's damage type to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing..."
4) Have a feat that give your Blast the Modular (B, P, S) trait. Seriously, make it LESS confusing, and for Fire, if people ask, you can cut and stab stuff with a blowtorch and the concept of "hard light" can apply to Fire.This already exists as a level 1 feat.
Weapon Infusion
" You can choose to change the blast's damage type to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing..."
Yes, which is completely useless if your Blast already deals physical damage...
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Yes, which is completely useless if your Blast already deals physical damage...4) Have a feat that give your Blast the Modular (B, P, S) trait. Seriously, make it LESS confusing, and for Fire, if people ask, you can cut and stab stuff with a blowtorch and the concept of "hard light" can apply to Fire.This already exists as a level 1 feat.
Weapon Infusion
" You can choose to change the blast's damage type to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing..."
It's in no way useless. It gives it 1-2 options it didn't have before, plus a weapon trait.
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It's in no way useless. It gives it 1-2 options it didn't have before, plus a weapon trait.Yes, which is completely useless if your Blast already deals physical damage...4) Have a feat that give your Blast the Modular (B, P, S) trait. Seriously, make it LESS confusing, and for Fire, if people ask, you can cut and stab stuff with a blowtorch and the concept of "hard light" can apply to Fire.This already exists as a level 1 feat.
Weapon Infusion
" You can choose to change the blast's damage type to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing..."
Also it's stupid good even if it didn't vary your types. Some dude 200 feet off? Turn your element into a longbow with a range INCRIMENT of 100 (volley 30). Want to do a glibbidybillion damage but your enemy is up a 20 foot cliff? Turn your blast into a throwing dagger, letting you add your full strength and con bonus to damage.
I just feel like it's redundant when your Blast can already deal physical damage... Right now, Weapon infusion is only mandatory for Fire, because it's the ONLY element without an alternate physical damage type.
If all 6 elements dealt ONLY energy damage, then Weapon Infusion would feel more unique, as you "solidify" your element into a weapon.
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Metal Carapace is hideously bad, no doubt about that. I was so excited to play a Metal Kineticist until I saw how bad alot of their abilities are.
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I just feel like it's redundant when your Blast can already deal physical damage... Right now, Weapon infusion is only mandatory for Fire, because it's the ONLY element without an alternate physical damage type.
If all 6 elements dealt ONLY energy damage, then Weapon Infusion would feel more unique, as you "solidify" your element into a weapon.
IMO weapon infusion is not about "changing damage types" as much as "get 100' range with your normal 30' range blasts" or "add strength to damage on a ranged blast with propulsive or thrown" or "get agile on your second melee blast".
Like I would absolutely consider it on a single gate earth character for those reasons, since I'm likely starting with 16 Str and I am comfortable in melee.
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I just feel like it's redundant when your Blast can already deal physical damage... Right now, Weapon infusion is only mandatory for Fire, because it's the ONLY element without an alternate physical damage type.
If all 6 elements dealt ONLY energy damage, then Weapon Infusion would feel more unique, as you "solidify" your element into a weapon.
The extended range is nice too. I imagine it is the Kineticist version of Reach Spell.
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Metal Carapace is hideously bad, no doubt about that. I was so excited to play a Metal Kineticist until I saw how bad alot of their abilities are.
As armor it's really bad, but the feat isn't terrible if you just treat it as a disposable source of shield block.
I feel like if you're going to use metal carapace a lot, you're eventually going to want 16 Dex so the only loss of AC when your armor breaks is "your shield broke." Which probably would have happened anyway as you would have chosen to shield block there.
At least, I'm going to rule that you can use shield block when your armor shatters, so you might as well block with your disposable shield there.
I just feel like it's redundant when your Blast can already deal physical damage... Right now, Weapon infusion is only mandatory for Fire, because it's the ONLY element without an alternate physical damage type.
If all 6 elements dealt ONLY energy damage, then Weapon Infusion would feel more unique, as you "solidify" your element into a weapon.
IMO weapon infusion is not about "changing damage types" as much as "get 100' range with your normal 30' range blasts" or "add strength to damage on a ranged blast with propulsive or thrown" or "get agile on your second melee blast".
Like I would absolutely consider it on a single gate earth character for those reasons, since I'm likely starting with 16 Str and I am comfortable in melee.
Another issue I see is that the new ranges only apply to physical damage, as you cannot use your energy damage type with Weapon Infusion.
It begs the question: Why bother using the normal physical Blasts with every element except Fire? What's the point of NOT using Weapon Infusion if you're gonna use Slashing Air or Bludgeoning Earth? You literally have more options. Unless Weapon Infusion lasts for only ONE attack, which I doubt, it's worthless to NOT have this infusion.
There are also more things to consider:
- Damaging impulses have a set type. For instance, Aerial Boomerang deals only Slashing damage, despite the Air Blast also dealing Electricity. Something, it's not even one of the types offered by the Blast.
- Versatile Blast offers an energy damage for all 6 elements.
- Acid and Sonic aren't readily available.
- Vitality is worthless.
That's why Elemental Blasts should deal only energy damage, so Weapon Infusion would be there to alleviate damage type management.
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Another issue I see is that the new ranges only apply to physical damage, as you cannot use your energy damage type with Weapon Infusion.
That's not right: "You can choose to change the blast’s damage type to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing—whichever suits the weapon shape—". Can means you can opt to use your normal damage.
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I feel like if you're going to use metal carapace a lot, you're eventually going to want 16 Dex so the only loss of AC when your armor breaks is "your shield broke." Which probably would have happened anyway as you would have chosen to shield block there.
At least, I'm going to rule that you can use shield block when your armor shatters, so you might as well block with your disposable shield there.
Oh, that's in the rules directly. The armor shatters when you take damage from a critical hit. Shield block happens before damage is dealt.
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Also it's stupid good even if it didn't vary your types. Some dude 200 feet off? Turn your element into a longbow with a range INCRIMENT of 100 (volley 30). Want to do a glibbidybillion damage but your enemy is up a 20 foot cliff? Turn your blast into a throwing dagger, letting you add your full strength and con bonus to damage.It's in no way useless. It gives it 1-2 options it didn't have before, plus a weapon trait.Yes, which is completely useless if your Blast already deals physical damage...4) Have a feat that give your Blast the Modular (B, P, S) trait. Seriously, make it LESS confusing, and for Fire, if people ask, you can cut and stab stuff with a blowtorch and the concept of "hard light" can apply to Fire.This already exists as a level 1 feat.
Weapon Infusion
" You can choose to change the blast's damage type to bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing..."
FWIW this proved out in low level play at Gencon. I played a level 1 fire/wood kin with weapon infusion and was regularly throwing 1d8+6 blasts and when we encountered an enemy that was about 90' from the party, I crit a 1d8+4 blast into 2d8+8 while the rest of the party was still trying to close the gap. The versatility of weapon infusion is super real and I never had to take a move action to get in range, so a common turn was 2-action blast with either thrown or backswing, then a 1 action blast with either thrown/agile depending on melee vs. range and it was very efficient damage output.
The other thing that was theorycrafted and played out is he's either mediocre (str/dex skills) or absolutely terrible (everything else) at any skill check :D It was pretty fun roleplay.
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And Fire... Fire absolutely requires taking one of the ways to get another damage type. On the other hand, it does get a great damage type off of versatile.
Yes but fire with Weapon Infusion + Versatile Blasts goes from less versatile to one of the most versatile single element builds:
*Get with Weapon Infusion
**Get with Versatile Blasts
In practice in terms of versatility the worse are Earth and Metal because have one less non-physical damage type. Wood could be considered the second worse but Vitality damage is pretty useful vs high-level undead creatures that usually get some vitality weakness.
But in general getting a physical and an energy damage type is enough to deal with 99% of the opponents except resistance to all except some precious material and of corse golems and will-o-wisps.
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The Kineticist is such a well designed class. Even if you take Fire, Extract Elements helps you deal with fire immune creatures.
Kineticist might be the new best designed class in the game as far sufficient versatility with sufficient action economy at early enough levels to not have to worry about much that you can't cover with a feat.
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The Kineticist is such a well designed class. Even if you take Fire, Extract Elements helps you deal with fire immune creatures.
Kineticist might be the new best designed class in the game as far sufficient versatility with sufficient action economy at early enough levels to not have to worry about much that you can't cover with a feat.
Unless of course the fire immune creature doesn't have the fire trait which is about a third of them going by a quick archives of nethys search
Unless of course the fire immune creature doesn't have the fire trait which is about a third of them going by a quick archives of nethys searchThe Kineticist is such a well designed class. Even if you take Fire, Extract Elements helps you deal with fire immune creatures.
Kineticist might be the new best designed class in the game as far sufficient versatility with sufficient action economy at early enough levels to not have to worry about much that you can't cover with a feat.
Thus another reason why I prefer dual gate.
you're down 5 AC (2 from shield, 3 from armor) until the start of your turn.I don't think this is how people are going to use metal carapace. It has a dex cap of two, so you'll have 14 dex. It transfers runes from your base armor, so you're going to want to be wearing some light armor anyway, pick a light armor with an AC of 2. So when your carapace breaks you're only down 1 from armor instead of 3 (2+2 down from 3+2). You'll still use your shield, but the point of the ability is kind of "it's one action to repair your shield."Except the shield is part of the same infusion, so if you eat a crit your shield is gone too.
I'll grant you the armor part, tho. It probably makes sense not to be running around naked under your carapace armor.
If you're going to lose the shield regardless, might as well just block with it and eat just a bit less of that crit damage.
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Yeah, I think people are too down on Metal Carapace. The "breaking" thing is mostly thematic because metal is also the element of rust.
If you want to use it optimally you start with at least 14 dex, and at some point you upgrade it to 16 dex. You wear studded leather (or whatever) and put your runes on it. When you get crit, you block, which breaks your shield. You are now only out the AC from losing your shield, which is the same thing that happens to anybody who breaks their shield by blocking with it.
The difference is that you're basically forced to use the shield block reaction, whereas someone else could choose not to use it, but for you a shield doesn't cost money it costs "1 action to create it."
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I honestly wish the armour impulses were element neutral choices and earth/metal/wood just had a different level 1 impulse
Well, I was considering "just carrying a regular shield" on my geokineticist. Since I was going to have turns with "melee blast, [weapon infusion for agile], melee blast" and carrying an actual shield and raising it with one action, 1 more AC than using two actions for one of the blasts to get the impulse junction. I would generally rate "1 AC" to be more valuable than +4 damage.
If you're going to use overflow stuff a lot, you're probably not going to have actions for the shield but there's a lot of ways to play this class, and "get a new shield for one action" is pretty decent if you want to block with it a lot. If I was playing a Metal Kineticist and wanted to use a shield, I would consider Bastion for sure.
I honestly wish the armour impulses were element neutral choices and earth/metal/wood just had a different level 1 impulseI would too, but it's hard to think of a way Air and Fire become sufficiently armor-y to make it a truly universal. Armor of wood, stone, metal and ice I can easily see, though.
If you make it just a class feat impulse like there is a couple of you can leave the flavouring up to the individual and have a more generic phrase for the descriptor itself as for armour of Air/Fire, I can't think of one for fire right now but Air can just be localised high speed winds swirling around your body deflecting attacks, the universal armour impulses would've also avoided the current situation of metal armour is just wood but with a better shield so we make it break on a crit to not just be strictly better or the discussion I've had with friends since it came out of why can't metal make heavy plate armour but earth can
The charts in the Kineticist Playtest Analysis are somewhat elucidating. Metal and Wood score a 3 on "Defense" while Earth gets a 4; the other elements are at a 1 or a 2 so we can see why only those three elements get armor impulses.
Metal and Water are in an interesting place since they don't score a 4 (i.e. "best in class") in any of the categories, while Air gets to be best in class at Mobility, Earth at Defense, Fire at Destruction, Wood at Creation.
The charts in the Kineticist Playtest Analysis are somewhat elucidating. Metal and Wood score a 3 on "Defense" while Earth gets a 4; the other elements are at a 1 or a 2 so we can see why only those three elements get armor impulses.
Metal and Water are in an interesting place since they don't score a 4 (i.e. "best in class") in any of the categories, while Air gets to be best in class at Mobility, Earth at Defense, Fire at Destruction, Wood at Creation.
Those are also charts for the playtest that were purely speculative for wood/metal
I understand that the situation we have now is those three have armour which also makes mono-element worse because anyone not going mono-element can easily dip into earth for one feat heavy armour with armour specialisation
I mean, I don't really see a problem with Air, Water, and Fire getting 16 Dex and being 1 AC behind Earth. You can also just "carry a shield" and choose to raise it matching metal and wood (you just can't regenerate it with an action.)
The charts in the Kineticist Playtest Analysis are somewhat elucidating. Metal and Wood score a 3 on "Defense" while Earth gets a 4; the other elements are at a 1 or a 2 so we can see why only those three elements get armor impulses.
Metal and Water are in an interesting place since they don't score a 4 (i.e. "best in class") in any of the categories, while Air gets to be best in class at Mobility, Earth at Defense, Fire at Destruction, Wood at Creation.
What about when you use Hell of a Million Needles? That is one of the most brutally cool abilities in my mind's eye. Straight up Hellraiser or some horrifyingly brutal way to die.
A cube of metal forms around you impaling with its creations, bodies stuck on these huge needles, then electricity forks across the cube causing the impaled bodies to twitch from being electrocuted, then even if they get out they have to crawl across razor sharp needles that are tearing into their flesh.
I had to be metal just to use this ability someday. Whatever designer made this ability must have been watching some super horrifying movies or reading some crazy books.
The AP designers have to put a Velstrac metal kineticist as a villain in one of their modules. If they ever do a horror series or something like it again, I want a bunch of Velstrac metal kineticists in one of the modules.
I get such Hellraiser vibes from metal.
In practice in terms of versatility the worse are Earth and Metal because have one less non-physical damage type. Wood could be considered the second worse but Vitality damage is pretty useful vs high-level undead creatures that usually get some vitality weakness.
This is what I want to avoid: give TWO energy types to each element, slaps all 3 physical types, and you're good to go.
I mean weapon infusion does only last for one attack, it's an infusion. If you are mainly blasting with the free blast from collect elements you can't use it.
Oh really? I thought the aura dissipated if you used an impulse with the Overflow trait, thus you could use Weapon Infusion for the entire round.
One more reason to add a feat that keep that infusion longer...
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In practice in terms of versatility the worse are Earth and Metal because have one less non-physical damage type. Wood could be considered the second worse but Vitality damage is pretty useful vs high-level undead creatures that usually get some vitality weakness.This is what I want to avoid: give TWO energy types to each element, slaps all 3 physical types, and you're good to go.
I mean weapon infusion does only last for one attack, it's an infusion. If you are mainly blasting with the free blast from collect elements you can't use it.Oh really? I thought the aura dissipated if you used an impulse with the Overflow trait, thus you could use Weapon Infusion for the entire round.
One more reason to add a feat that keep that infusion longer...
The aura does dissipate when you use an impulse with the overflow trait, but an infusion is not an impulse, nor is it overflow. An infusion is like a metamagic for impulses. Your blast also does not have an overflow trait, so your aura isn't really a factor here. You *can* use an infusion "for the entire round" because it's a free action - so you can use it before every blast, on each blast, but you can only use one and you can only use that one once per blast (no Agile + thrown traits for example).
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The one weakness of weapon infusion is that it is not compatible with the "free" elemental blast you get as part of channel elements.
But if you're say opening your turn in melee without your element, you only really want agile on your second melee blast.
Well, that's one more thing to fix...
(So much for up to 3 attacks)
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Well, that's one more thing to fix...
(So much for up to 3 attacks)
No, that works.
Channel Element-> Free Blast-> Melee Blast.
[Weapon Infusion, choose Agile]
Melee Blast.
[Weapon Infusion, choose Agile]
Melee Blast.
Agile doesn't do anything for your first attack, just for your subsequent ones so this works fine.
...and if you start out your round with your aura already up, you cn even use Weapon Infusion three times if you like.
I mean, in general there are going to be better ways to use at least one of those actions, but you can.
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You probably want one two action blast and one single blast rather than three anyway.
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You probably want one two action blast and one single blast rather than three anyway.
Speaking from experience at the table, this is definitely true. the extra +4 to damage on the first blast far outweighs the -8 third attack, and if you include backswing on the first blast (if you didn't need to channel), your second attack is effectively -3 if you missed on that first.
You probably want one two action blast and one single blast rather than three anyway.
I'm currently working on a character that has a routine like this, and I'm thinking that "raising a shield for +2 AC" is a better option than either for your third option.
But it's good to have options.
Like specifically you'd want your 2 action impulse to be the most accurate one, so if you start your turn without your element you need to use the free blast first. I think "more AC" is preferable to "+4 damage on your 1d8+3 attack made at -4."
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You probably want one two action blast and one single blast rather than three anyway.I'm currently working on a character that has a routine like this, and I'm thinking that "raising a shield for +2 AC" is a better option than either for your third option.
But it's good to have options.
Like specifically you'd want your 2 action impulse to be the most accurate one, so if you start your turn without your element you need to use the free blast first. I think "more AC" is preferable to "+4 damage on your 1d8+3 attack made at -4."
In my experience it was situational. While I had the shield from hardwood armor, I was frequently not in a position where I was likely to get attacked (enemies had to move up to me, or the Champion was in the way, etc). In those circumstances I was very glad to pile on an extra +4 damage - especially when the enemy was 90' away so I wasn't getting my strength (I was even more glad when it crit, becoming +8 at 90').
Basically, it says that impulses ACT LIKE SPELLS when interacting with things that effect spells. So if something is 'immune to all spells except X, Y, and Z' then they are immune to all kinetic impulses.
[quote=Will-o-wisp, bestiary pg. 333)
A will-o’-wisp is immune to all spells except faerie fire, glitterdust, magic missile, and maze.
I suppose that might change when the Monster Core comes out.
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Oh, what sort of build did you have with hardwood armor? Hopefully this isn't derailing the thread, just curious for your play experience with a wood character.In my experience it was situational. While I had the shield from hardwood armor, I was frequently not in a position where I was likely to get attacked (enemies had to move up to me, or the Champion was in the way, etc). In those circumstances I was very glad to pile on an extra +4 damage - especially when the enemy was 90' away so I wasn't getting my strength (I was even more glad when it crit, becoming +8 at 90').You probably want one two action blast and one single blast rather than three anyway.I'm currently working on a character that has a routine like this, and I'm thinking that "raising a shield for +2 AC" is a better option than either for your third option.
But it's good to have options.
Like specifically you'd want your 2 action impulse to be the most accurate one, so if you start your turn without your element you need to use the free blast first. I think "more AC" is preferable to "+4 damage on your 1d8+3 attack made at -4."
I didn't really think of him as a "wood" kineticist. My build was Fire/wood human with versatile blast + weapon infusion. 1st level infusions were Hardwood armor + Flying Flame to create a flexible build that allowed me to be present in any section of the battlefield effectively. His primary focus was throwing out blasts, given the low level.
I think just as influential were the other members of the party, because by nature of the build I was able to position myself as needed. We had a champion, a monk, an investigator (ranged), and a Psychic, so we had a couple of frontliners and a couple of ranged that allowed me the flexibility to "switch hit" based on the enemy team composition and positioning.
Well, that's one more thing to fix...
(So much for up to 3 attacks)
No, that works.
Channel Element-> Free Blast-> Melee Blast.
[Weapon Infusion, choose Agile]
Melee Blast.
[Weapon Infusion, choose Agile]
Melee Blast.Agile doesn't do anything for your first attack, just for your subsequent ones so this works fine.
Oh, ok, that's good :)
...and if you start out your round with your aura already up, you cn even use Weapon Infusion three times if you like.
I mean, in general there are going to be better ways to use at least one of those actions, but you can.
P1E residual thinking... I still talk about using a "full attack" ^^;
You probably want one two action blast and one single blast rather than three anyway.
or use an impulse, another feat or move around... My concern was that I wasn't too sure if I could "solidify my Fire Blast into a weapon 3 times in a row in a single round".
I'll still reiterate that the lack of 2 energy damage types per element would need a fix. A 12th-level feat called Improved Versatile Blasts that add a 3rd damage type would be welcomed:
- Air: Sonic (sound is an air movement)
- Earth: Acid (many earth-based monsters use acid)
- Fire: Electricity (lightning bolts are heat sources)
- Metal: Poison (many metals are poisonous, and rust)
- Water: Fire (boiling water)
- Wood: Acid (some plants are corrosive)
Now, would that deter people from forking paths? Maybe, maybe not, but even then, if your Pyrokineticist can use Fire and Cold as a single gate user, I don't see an issue with a 3rd type added in.
If you REALLY want a fix, I'd add an option for Wood to damage living creatures with Vitality damage (half damage). IIRC, standing in a positive energy pocket overloads your body... and can cause it to explode O_o That's what I've read about the Positive Energy Plane.
My other fix would be to add areas of effects to every element, and maybe twist it into a 3-action ability. Line, cone, burst, cylinder, name it, make that move a typical energy expulsion you see in anime :P
I've heard rumors about a Void Element... which I'm surprised that they haven't added right away. Void damage is negative energy, but what about the rest? Force and Mental?
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Well, that's one more thing to fix...
(So much for up to 3 attacks)
No, that works.
Channel Element-> Free Blast-> Melee Blast.
[Weapon Infusion, choose Agile]
Melee Blast.
[Weapon Infusion, choose Agile]
Melee Blast.Agile doesn't do anything for your first attack, just for your subsequent ones so this works fine.
Oh, ok, that's good :)
...and if you start out your round with your aura already up, you cn even use Weapon Infusion three times if you like.
I mean, in general there are going to be better ways to use at least one of those actions, but you can.
P1E residual thinking... I still talk about using a "full attack" ^^;
You probably want one two action blast and one single blast rather than three anyway.or use an impulse, another feat or move around... My concern was that I wasn't too sure if I could "solidify my Fire Blast into a weapon 3 times in a row in a single round".
I'll still reiterate that the lack of 2 energy damage types per element would need a fix. A 12th-level feat called Improved Versatile Blasts that add a 3rd damage type would be welcomed:
- Air: Sonic (sound is an air movement)
- Earth: Acid (many earth-based monsters use acid)
- Fire: Electricity (lightning bolts are heat sources)
- Metal: Poison (many metals are poisonous, and rust)
- Water: Fire (boiling water)
- Wood: Acid (some plants are corrosive)Now, would that deter people from forking paths? Maybe, maybe not, but even then, if your Pyrokineticist can use Fire and Cold as a single gate user, I don't see an issue with a 3rd type added in.
If you REALLY want a fix, I'd add an option for Wood to damage living creatures with Vitality damage (half damage). IIRC, standing in a positive energy pocket overloads your body... and can cause it to explode O_o That's what I've read about the Positive Energy Plane.
My other fix would be to add areas of effects to every...
I would love to see continued expansion/depth into improving blasts - either the way you describe or in other new and creative ways. I don't think additional damage types to your blasts is sufficient reason to discourage forking the gate, and honestly it feels like even with all the support in the initial toolkit there might need to be MORE incentive to stay single gate. The toolkits of the individual elements are sufficiently focused that it will definitely start to chafe at mid/high levels.
I would love to see continued expansion/depth into improving blasts - either the way you describe or in other new and creative ways. I don't think additional damage types to your blasts is sufficient reason to discourage forking the gate, and honestly it feels like even with all the support in the initial toolkit there might need to be MORE incentive to stay single gate. The toolkits of the individual elements are sufficiently focused that it will definitely start to chafe at mid/high levels.
Indeed :)