I've seen that each blast deals ONE die of damage, but will be eligible for striking runes, thus doubling, tripling or quadrupling its base damage. The twist is that you'll able to attack up to 3 times.
I doubt they'll be able to "fuse" blasts with unarmed strikes or weapons though. Attacking with a major striking rune longsword for 4d8 points of slashing PLUS a major striking rune Fire Blast for an extra 4d8 points of fire damage... 3 times... would be excessive ^^;
As long as for a Focus Spell, you can launch a Blast that deal one die x 1/2 your levels or all your levels, with whatever area you wish to cover, I'm good :)
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I've seen that each blast deals ONE die of damage, but will be eligible for striking runes, thus doubling, tripling or quadrupling its base damage. The twist is that you'll able to attack up to 3 times.
I doubt they'll be able to "fuse" blasts with unarmed strikes or weapons though. Attacking with a major striking rune longsword for 4d8 points of slashing PLUS a major striking rune Fire Blast for an extra 4d8 points of fire damage... 3 times... would be excessive ^^;
As long as for a Focus Spell, you can launch a Blast that deal one die x 1/2 your levels or all your levels, with whatever area you wish to cover, I'm good :)
Fusing could happen if the blasts use the MAP penalty rule.
I hope they do.
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The blasts wont be eligible for striking runes, in the quick flash of the page that included the blast action that was shown during the primal previews panel at paizocon you can see that they essentially heighten at level +4 to increase the damage die because they aren't attached to handwraps anymore so can't get any kind of potency or striking rune attached (I know during paizocon someone explicitly said not attached to handwraps but I don't remember where it was so I can't give a proper citation on that, it was the same section where the magic item that gives a +1 or +2 to either blast or class dc and a once a day spell thing was mentioned)
Edit: I found it, it was on discord so I found it thanks to this doc from the time https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jqqnbx6X_3DZ2AU1DxeD-ffu7-GcYegU_wpHjSq Opns
Gate attenuators are a magic item for kineticists that act both add grant 1/day spells to the kineticist and give them up to a +2 item bonus to their impulse attack rolls.
“Ah so not handwrapos of mighty blows based anymore?”
Michael Sayre — Today at 5:43 PM
Correct.
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I'm sure they'll at least get a +1 damage for their focus... :PI sure hope so. A Kinetecist who devotes all of their energy and time into mastering Fire should be FAR more powerful with Fire than one who chose to learn other elements as well.
Thank you for the chuckle, mainly because I can already hear folks intoning "but +1 is a BIG DEAL in PF2!" to justify such weak specialization.
Thank you for the chuckle, mainly because I can already hear folks intoning "but +1 is a BIG DEAL in PF2!" to justify such weak specialization.I'm sure they'll at least get a +1 damage for their focus... :PI sure hope so. A Kinetecist who devotes all of their energy and time into mastering Fire should be FAR more powerful with Fire than one who chose to learn other elements as well.
Wait until they defend the Fighter's Legendary Proficiency and its extra +2...
On another topic, I suggested that fighters get the equivalent of focus spells to finally make them unique from barbarians, monks, rangers and other martial-oriented classes. People went on saying that "they receive Legendary Proficiency, so that's enough".
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On another topic, I suggested that fighters get the equivalent of focus spells to finally make them unique from barbarians, monks, rangers and other martial-oriented classes. People went on saying that "they receive Legendary Proficiency, so that's enough".
Well... fighters aren't exactly hurting right now... and some people want to be able to play the simple straightforward character who's simple and straightforward. I mean, if the Fighter doesn't get to be the "bog-standard, no-frills, it just works" class, then who does?
On another topic, I suggested that fighters get the equivalent of focus spells to finally make them unique from barbarians, monks, rangers and other martial-oriented classes. People went on saying that "they receive Legendary Proficiency, so that's enough".Well... fighters aren't exactly hurting right now... and some people want to be able to play the simple straightforward character who's simple and straightforward. I mean, if the Fighter doesn't get to be the "bog-standard, no-frills, it just works" class, then who does?
It feels more like a "brain dead" class than a "basic class".
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It feels more like a "brain dead" class than a "basic class".
Plenty of people like them... and I, at least, am not in the business of telling people that they should not like parts of PF2. PF2 is large. If the fighter is too simple for you, there are plenty of options that are more complex.
If anything, I'd suggest putting that sort of "Focus nonspell" thing on the swashbuckler. They're supposed to be extra-flashy, they're already built to appeal to people who want a bit more complexity with their martialness, and they could maybe use a bit of love.
I'm getting off-topic, though. Kineticists!
I'm really hoping to get some ability to go deep on the auras. I feel like we haven't really heard anything about auras since the playtest, and I'm really curious where they are right now. I have this fantasy of a 4-character all-kineticist party that just stacks aura on aura and makes their foes very unhappy indeed.
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Water's preview did have that uneven ground stance which is pretty brutal by virtue of removing all movement options aside from balance. It hoses everything without an acrobatics modifier or flight and removes the ability to even step for those that do which can make for easy reaction fodder.
The only issue is the friendly fire. A party of 4 kineticists with similar auras aren't stacking them without being very careful about turn order to minimize sabotaging each other.
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It feels more like a "brain dead" class than a "basic class".I'm really hoping to get some ability to go deep on the auras. I feel like we haven't really heard anything about auras since the playtest, and I'm really curious where they are right now. I have this fantasy of a 4-character all-kineticist party that just stacks aura on aura and makes their foes very unhappy indeed.
Below is the last thing they ever said about auras. I really liked the different aura feats, but reading this combined with the lack of info since makes me concerned they nixed most of the extra aura stuff.
Our current thinking is to have the kineticist surrounded with their kinetic aura at all times, letting their elements swirl around them. The aura doesn’t have any effect on its own—it’s just for show—though dedicated gate kineticists might get a minor benefit. To use an impulse, the kineticist directs the flowing elements with a free hand. Overflow impulses exhaust the aura, similar to expending a gathered element in the playtest. It would then take a single action to cause a resurgence from your inner gate, also granting an added benefit. This might be using a kinetic aura impulse to alter the effect of the aura, making an Elemental Blast, or a specific benefit related to an element.
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Water's preview did have that uneven ground stance which is pretty brutal by virtue of removing all movement options aside from balance. It hoses everything without an acrobatics modifier or flight and removes the ability to even step for those that do which can make for easy reaction fodder.
The only issue is the friendly fire. A party of 4 kineticists with similar auras aren't stacking them without being very careful about turn order to minimize sabotaging each other.
Ah, I missed that stance. Maybe I'm wrong. Friendly fire is a real concern though, not game breaking though.
Water's preview did have that uneven ground stance which is pretty brutal by virtue of removing all movement options aside from balance. It hoses everything without an acrobatics modifier or flight and removes the ability to even step for those that do which can make for easy reaction fodder.
The only issue is the friendly fire. A party of 4 kineticists with similar auras aren't stacking them without being very careful about turn order to minimize sabotaging each other.
Sure... but if you've got a team that's going in for the party optimization, you can find ways to have everyone more able to work with each other's auras. (...like, say, everyone on the team puts work into acrobatics. Combos well with "everyone takes kip-up" if there's an aura that hands out a lot of prone.)
Thanks for the update!
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I can absolutely imagine a water kineticist firebrand who goes big into that aura and Boat Shenanigans.
...because if there's no way for water kineticists to do Boat Shenanigans, they're doing it wrong.
I’ve never been into superhero characters with telekinesis powers even if I did read X-men in the 80s growing up. It seems like an even weirder angle to base a fantasy class on, so I’ve not been following this one.
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Kineticist could totally be seen as a superhero. Being able to do things at will is very superhero like, not a ton of superheroes can only do a few fights a day before they run out of powers. It's part of the reason I love the class so much.
It's also very focused, with rules like superheroes have. You have this one specific power; you aren't a caster that has rock powers but also can haste characters or whatever else cuz magic.
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I’ve never been into superhero characters with telekinesis powers even if I did read X-men in the 80s growing up. It seems like an even weirder angle to base a fantasy class on, so I’ve not been following this one.
It's not just about the "telekinesis" thing. Actually, I don't think that PF2 kineticists have that at all yet. A lot of it is about having your powers be strongly elementally themes, and dialed in to one element in particular (or perhaps a small number of them)
Elsa is a kineticist.
Every bender in the Avatar-verse is a kineticist.
Anyone who might be described as a pyromancer/hydromancer/aeromancer/etc is a kineticist. ("Geomancer" sometimes refers to the earth version of this thing, and sometimes refers to something else completely different.) This includes a pretty solid chunk of the casters in Warhammer Fantasy, among others
Naruto ninja ninjutsu specialists are often kineticists.
Many pokemon, Gijinka or otherwise, are best represented as kineticists (most commonly as awakened animal kineticists).
That's not to say that you are required to want any of these things, but it goes way beyond just "telekinesis superheroes".
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“Someone with wind or water powers” is about as typically fantasy as it gets.
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“Someone with wind or water powers” is about as typically fantasy as it gets.
Honestly probably more typical than the omni-generalists that normal PF2 spellcasters are.
The blasts wont be eligible for striking runes, in the quick flash of the page that included the blast action that was shown during the primal previews panel at paizocon you can see that they essentially heighten at level +4 to increase the damage die because they aren't attached to handwraps anymore so can't get any kind of potency or striking rune attached (I know during paizocon someone explicitly said not attached to handwraps but I don't remember where it was so I can't give a proper citation on that, it was the same section where the magic item that gives a +1 or +2 to either blast or class dc and a once a day spell thing was mentioned)
Edit: I found it, it was on discord so I found it thanks to this doc from the time https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jqqnbx6X_3DZ2AU1DxeD-ffu7-GcYegU_wpHjSq Opns
Gate attenuators are a magic item for kineticists that act both add grant 1/day spells to the kineticist and give them up to a +2 item bonus to their impulse attack rolls.
“Ah so not handwrapos of mighty blows based anymore?”
Michael Sayre — Today at 5:43 PM
Correct.
Oh... this doesn't look good :S
If cantrips end up being better than blasts, the Kineticist is gonna be worthless AND useless.
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The blasts wont be eligible for striking runes, in the quick flash of the page that included the blast action that was shown during the primal previews panel at paizocon you can see that they essentially heighten at level +4 to increase the damage die because they aren't attached to handwraps anymore so can't get any kind of potency or striking rune attached (I know during paizocon someone explicitly said not attached to handwraps but I don't remember where it was so I can't give a proper citation on that, it was the same section where the magic item that gives a +1 or +2 to either blast or class dc and a once a day spell thing was mentioned)
Edit: I found it, it was on discord so I found it thanks to this doc from the time https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jqqnbx6X_3DZ2AU1DxeD-ffu7-GcYegU_wpHjSq Opns
Gate attenuators are a magic item for kineticists that act both add grant 1/day spells to the kineticist and give them up to a +2 item bonus to their impulse attack rolls.
“Ah so not handwrapos of mighty blows based anymore?”
Michael Sayre — Today at 5:43 PM
Correct.Oh... this doesn't look good :S
If cantrips end up being better than blasts, the Kineticist is gonna be worthless AND useless.
If the blast ends up dealing a little less damage than a cantrip but for half the action cost, it might be quite worthy.
Also, isn't this supposed to be the hype thread ?
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IDK we don't know everything but they seem fine? They went from actual weapon attacks to spells that scale like weapons and can get item bonuses... which seems perfectly functional for a one-action ability. D6 blasts are going to be comparable to shortbows and d8 blasts are going to be better.
I mean I still think the people who were begging Paizo to make them function like spells were off their rockers and that everyone had to know that they'd end up worse because of it, but from what we've seen these seem functional.
The two-action version sounds a bit weird unless there's something else you get from them later on, because ability mod damage scales really badly.
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“Someone with wind or water powers” is about as typically fantasy as it gets.Honestly probably more typical than the omni-generalists that normal PF2 spellcasters are.
TBT, a normal PF2 caster can totally specialize in a theme of spells and become known as the master of this kind of magic. In a way, it was a bit what the spells' schools were.
It's just that the current ruleset does not support it much and thus we do not see that many PCs built this way.
Note that the Traditions do carry a little flavor/bent similar to this.
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IDK we don't know everything but they seem fine? They went from actual weapon attacks to spells that scale like weapons and can get item bonuses... which seems perfectly functional for a one-action ability. D6 blasts are going to be comparable to shortbows and d8 blasts are going to be better.
I mean I still think the people who were begging Paizo to make them function like spells were off their rockers and that everyone had to know that they'd end up worse because of it, but from what we've seen these seem functional.
The two-action version sounds a bit weird unless there's something else you get from them later on, because ability mod damage scales really badly.
The two-action version makes me think of Power Attack. So, maybe it will be something like double the modifier at level 10 and triple at level 18.
The two-action version sounds a bit weird unless there's something else you get from them later on, because ability mod damage scales really badly.
Solidly in the category of being so weird that we can take it as given that the scaling text will include something for the two-action version.
I've seen previews, and impulses have cantrip scaling... but (+2) instead of (+1)...
a couple of the water impulses show have level +3 just to mix it up a little, one at level 8 and one at level 12
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I've seen previews, and impulses have cantrip scaling... but (+2) instead of (+1)...+2 for impulse/blast is the same as a +1 for spells/cantrips. The latter goes off of spell rank/level which increase every 2 levels while the former go off character level.
Hmmm...
To the risk of getting flagged, here's what I found:
It looks like it is per character level...
I stand corrected then :)
That's unfair to the fighter it's generic good at combat features means it gets the best bonus from archetypes in the game and it's feats are some of the heaviest on control that any martial gets. It's mechanics are simple but there flexible and hey who doesn't like crits.It feels more like a "brain dead" class than a "basic class".On another topic, I suggested that fighters get the equivalent of focus spells to finally make them unique from barbarians, monks, rangers and other martial-oriented classes. People went on saying that "they receive Legendary Proficiency, so that's enough".Well... fighters aren't exactly hurting right now... and some people want to be able to play the simple straightforward character who's simple and straightforward. I mean, if the Fighter doesn't get to be the "bog-standard, no-frills, it just works" class, then who does?
Without derailing too much, I feel like the fighter is a "martial jack-of-all-trade, yet master of none" kinda of class.
Hopefully, the Kineticist will not fall into that trap, because as a speciliazed "blaster", I hope it gets exclusive stuff.
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They already said that their vision is that an aerokineticist should be better at flying at appropriate levels than like "a wizard who knows all the flying-related spells."
I feel like a Kineticist should be a mix of martial, caster and skill-monkey. Take them like a Monk with Asian-inspired magic ^_^
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I feel like a Kineticist should be a mix of martial, caster and skill-monkey. Take them like a Monk with Asian-inspired magic ^_^
I would like this diversity of abilities through a diversity of feats so that you can have builds that focus on one aspect and others that mix them.
But all this has to take into account multiclassing both into Kineticist and Kineticist into other Classes.
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I feel like a Kineticist should be a mix of martial, caster and skill-monkey. Take them like a Monk with Asian-inspired magic ^_^I would like this diversity of abilities through a diversity of feats so that you can have builds that focus on one aspect and others that mix them.
But all this has to take into account multiclassing both into Kineticist and Kineticist into other Classes.
I disagree, multiclasding os a variant rule for power gaming and should not be considered in class design. If you're talking about archetypes then I think tha balance will likely be that so much of the class' power and style seems baked into their feats. So finding room for archetype feats will drastically reduce the kineticist's abilities.
As for the Kineticist dedication itself, I hate to even speculate what that will look like right now.
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I feel like a Kineticist should be a mix of martial, caster and skill-monkey. Take them like a Monk with Asian-inspired magic ^_^I would like this diversity of abilities through a diversity of feats so that you can have builds that focus on one aspect and others that mix them.
But all this has to take into account multiclassing both into Kineticist and Kineticist into other Classes.
I disagree, multiclasding os a variant rule for power gaming and should not be considered in class design. If you're talking about archetypes then I think tha balance will likely be that so much of the class' power and style seems baked into their feats. So finding room for archetype feats will drastically reduce the kineticist's abilities.
As for the Kineticist dedication itself, I hate to even speculate what that will look like right now.
100% disagree.
Multiclassing can 'definitely' be considered in class design but it has to be done right.
The chassis doesn't work for the current ttrpg paradigms such as pf2e and 5th Ed though.
Meh, agree to disagree then. The current state of PF2e as a system is such that the multi-classing variant rule makes OP characters in nearly any scenario anyway. It was designed largely for 2 demographics, players who simply want to power game as OP characters (nothing wrong with that), and tables that only have a couple of players and so use this to compensate for lack of players. Designing the current game system's classes with multi-classing in mind is, IMO, a recipe for creating underpowered classes under normal circumstances.
That said, archetype is a different story altogether and should be balanced around.
Though, this is a hype thread so I digress. Metal Kineticist sound awesome. The teased impulse that creates a giant metal top that just whirls around the battlefield sounds very fun.
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I feel like a Kineticist should be a mix of martial, caster and skill-monkey. Take them like a Monk with Asian-inspired magic ^_^I would like this diversity of abilities through a diversity of feats so that you can have builds that focus on one aspect and others that mix them.
But all this has to take into account multiclassing both into Kineticist and Kineticist into other Classes.
I disagree, multiclasding os a variant rule for power gaming and should not be considered in class design. If you're talking about archetypes then I think tha balance will likely be that so much of the class' power and style seems baked into their feats. So finding room for archetype feats will drastically reduce the kineticist's abilities.
As for the Kineticist dedication itself, I hate to even speculate what that will look like right now.
100% disagree.
Multiclassing can 'definitely' be considered in class design but it has to be done right.
The chassis doesn't work for the current ttrpg paradigms such as pf2e and 5th Ed though.
Meh, agree to disagree then. The current state of PF2e as a system is such that the multi-classing variant rule makes OP characters in nearly any scenario anyway. It was designed largely for 2 demographics, players who simply want to power game as OP characters (nothing wrong with that), and tables that only have a couple of players and so use this to compensate for lack of players. Designing the current game system's classes with multi-classing in mind is, IMO, a recipe for creating underpowered classes under normal circumstances.
That said, archetype is a different story altogether and should be balanced around.
Though, this is a hype thread so I digress. Metal Kineticist sound awesome. The teased impulse that creates a giant metal top that just whirls around the battlefield sounds very fun.
Since multiclassing is done through archetype, I really do not understand why you see the first as too powerful and the second (which includes the first) as something to be balanced around. Do you mean dual-classing (aka gestalt PCs) or maybe Free Archetype ?
