That's a fairly typical Herald Caller build. Other archetypes lend themselves to that play style as well, like the Blossoming Light, but Herald Caller is the one I have experiences with.
Ecclesitheurge also fits your criteria and is an interesting archetype that I expect to play some day.
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Just a caster? Sure, works fine. However there's not really a reason to skip armor. Might as well wear some unless you are playing an archetype like Ecclesitheurge. You can channel to heal when necessary, but if you really want to be a good caster (especially an "attacking" caster) you can't invest in Charisma or feats to improve channeling so you're really limited to using channel to heal 3-4 times a day. Vice versa if you want to focus on channeling.
I played an evangelist cleric to 15th level. He was most definitely not a melee character (though he did wear a mithral breastplate). Buffs and enchantment spells. I think I made only a double handful of attack rolls throughout my career, and all of those were ranged touch spells. He was very effective at casting, though not at channeling.
I also played a Cleric/Envoy of Balance. He was a complete channel-monster, with just enough wisdom to cast his spells. This is a much tougher route to go and loses effectiveness as you level - especially if your campaign features multiple long fights in a day - as you run up against a limit of things you can do to improve your number of channels and the DC.
but if you really want to be a good caster (especially an "attacking" caster) you can't invest in Charisma or feats to improve channeling so you're really limited to using channel to heal 3-4 times a day. Vice versa if you want to focus on channeling.
You could make charisma your 2nd or 3rd highest ability. Personally I'd go:
Wis>Con>Cha>Dex>Int=StrIf using 20 point buy, this stat array would be fine before race bonuses:
8,12,14,10,16,14
If you plan on combat channeling, you'll need at least a 13 in Charisma to get Selective Channel. Also, the only way to channel efficiently at higher levels is to distribute the damage, so you'll need to cast Shield Other on 1 or 2 of your most damage prone teammates. And eventually it'd be great if you could use Imbue with Spell Ability to get your "tanks" to cast Shield Other on you and potentially other teammates.
The focus on constitution is to survive that damage distribution.
granted not a cleric but wouldn't necessarily tarnish the image, you could take a level in monk to get your Wisdom bonus to AC.
I have a vanilla cleric multiclassed Evangelist who does this. If I’d been a bit more focussed when I started him I would have dropped some of the combat-ish options (started as a reach cleric), but as other people have said there is no reason not to have a mithral breastplate under your robes.
Cleric of Milani with the Feats Beacon of Hope (deity specific) and Combat Advice. The concept was all about seeing how many stacking plusses I could give people in combat.
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@Belafon But wearing armor ruins the whole image! The image I had in my mind for this crazy idea is not a battle hardened warrior in full plate but a humble priestly cleric wearing a simple robe. I know it is not optimal, But I wanted to see if it was possible...
Oh sure, works fine if you want to do it for RP reasons. In an average game, I mean. It won't be "the best" but an average-power game doesn't require the characters to be super-tuned.
As for doing both casting and channeling, the problem is the lack of resources to do both offensively. Since Wisdom and Charisma share a headband slot it gets really expensive trying to upgrade both. And not enough feats to take both offensive casting and offensive channeling feats. You can usually sneak in Selective Channel if you're only using your channels to heal, though.
So, I had this idea floatig about in my head.. A cleric who does not use armour and doesn't fight in melee, But instead focuses on using their spells and channel energy...
Has anyone here tried this before..? How did it go..? Is this just a horrible idea in general..?
Honestly, I thought this was basically the default cleric build.
While you have 3/4 BAB and access to medium armor...you don't really have many class features that reinforce being on the front lines making melee attacks. Like, you can be there. You are studier than a wizard. You have a reasonable chance to hit (at least till mid levels). But you're likely better off focusing on casting.
@Melkiador Thank you! I'l take a look at those archetypes. :)
@Belafon But wearing armor ruins the whole image! The image I had in my mind for this crazy idea is not a battle hardened warrior in full plate but a humble priestly cleric wearing a simple robe. I know it is not optimal, But I wanted to see if it was possible...
It's not a bad idea at all, you just want to get something for that trade off.
Armor proficiency, even though it might seem small is part of the class' power budget. No reason to give it and get nothing back.
Ecclesitheurge, as already mentioned, is basically exactly this concept.
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The major drawback of this sort of build is the relative weakness of a Cleric's offensive spell list: Unless you are fighting Outsiders or Undead, you are largely reduced to heals, condition removal, and buffs, all of which are important but not necessarily the most exciting options in battle (the cleric in our current party often just delays as most encounters aren't worth using his buff spells and the party doesn't need healing or condition removal yet).
I played a Spirit Guide Oracle (Heavens) as a 'pure caster' and it was fun, but we were playing 'Wrath of the Righteous' and we knew going in that Demonic foes would be everywhere, so Holy Smite was a 'no brainer' choice (or Fireball from a Flame Spirit if we were facing non-outsiders): In another campaign, this character would probably have been significantly weaker (relatively speaking), and I imagine a cleric version would probably be weaker still (no 'mystery' or 'spirit' spells, fewer spell slots overall, and you have to guess how many of each spell you need to prepare each day): It certain can work, but it is a play style that won't necessarily appeal to every player...
The major drawback of this sort of build is the relative weakness of a Cleric's offensive spell list ...
While this is kind-of true , they have some phenomenal debuffing and control spells.
At level 1 you're reasonably limited, but even then spells like COMMAND can be absolutely clutch. By the time you hit level 3 and get 2nd level spells you can throw out something like BURST OF RADIANCE at the beginning of a combat to completely change how the encounter plays out. They may not have as many options as some, but there are good spells for this playstyle in the Cleric spell list.
Also don't forget domains. First because they give you limited access to spells you otherwise couldn't cast, but also because the domain powers themselves could make a huge difference to how the early game plays. I played an Ecclesitheurge and I found the Charm Subdomain's Adoration more than made up for my lack of armour.
LOVE SUBDOMAIN
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the dazing touch power of the Charm domain. It won't help your offensive abilities, but it made me feel much safer to deliver touch attacks etc.Adoration (Su): As an immediate action, you can attempt to thwart a melee or ranged attack that targets you. This ability functions as sanctuary, but only against one individual attack. You must use the ability after the attack is declared but before the roll is made. The creature attacking you receives a Will save to negate this effect. If a creature has more than one attack, this ability only affects one of the attacks. You can use the ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier. This is a mind-affecting effect.
So, I had this idea floatig about in my head.. A cleric who does not use armour and doesn't fight in melee, But instead focuses on using their spells and channel energy...
Has anyone here tried this before..? How did it go..? Is this just a horrible idea in general..?
Sounds like a "Normal, Vanilla, Cleric" in the groups I play in.
granted not a cleric but wouldn't necessarily tarnish the image, you could take a level in monk to get your Wisdom bonus to AC.
Likewise, you could dip 1 level in Oracle of Lore(*) to get Sidestep Secret to add your Charisma Bonus to AC as well. Of course, the downside is that (if you do both dips) you're behind 2 whole levels on both Channeling and spellcasting progression, and the only mitigation you can get is Magical Knack to catch back up in caster level (but not spellcasting progression).
(*)I could have sworn one of the other Mysteries also has this but can't remember which one.
You could be an Evangelist and essentially play a divine Bard with 9/9 spellcasting. You could go all-in on Charisma and Channel Energy, worship Ra or Horus, and just spam Dazing Channel via the Variant Channeling for "rulership". Between Bardic Performance(s) and Dazing Channel, I think you would have plenty to do... you can, and probably should, invest in Sacred Summons once you can start a Performance as a move action or swift action, and maybe a few more summoning-related feats, because you can affect everything you summon with Inspire Courage.
Probably only "afford" three feats for your Bardic Performance stuffs, three feats for your Channel Energy stuffs, and three feats for your summoning stuffs... one feat left for Divine Interference at level 11. Lol.
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(*)I could have sworn one of the other Mysteries also has this but can't remember which one.
Lore: Sidestep Secret, Lunar: Prophetic Armor, and Nature: Nature's Whispers all offer that particular ability, though vary slightly from one another.
A player of mine is convinced that clerics do nothing but heal. He played through an entire AP (and then some; level 1-18) as a straight-up cleric, used a weapon (crossbow) to attack maybe 6 times, didn't have buffing spells, summoned a handful of times, and would occasionally cast spells at the enemies.
It worked, sure. But he completely ignored a fair bit of what a cleric can do so the group suffered for it a little.
A player of mine is convinced that clerics do nothing but heal. He played through an entire AP (and then some; level 1-18) as a straight-up cleric, used a weapon (crossbow) to attack maybe 6 times, didn't have buffing spells, summoned a handful of times, and would occasionally cast spells at the enemies.
It worked, sure. But he completely ignored a fair bit of what a cleric can do so the group suffered for it a little.
This is sad. I see a lot of shade casted on Clerics... and I get it, the class can be boring AF if built/played by someone without enough knowledge of what options exist, or someone without imagination. The potential is there to be both good and bad... with your average heal-bot being on the bad end of the available spectrum.
I think quite a few of the archetypes offer pretty decent flavor, and some offer pretty decent mechanics that can be made relatively effective. It's not hard to just buff yourself up and play like a pretty decent martial, you can play like a pretty decent Bard, you can open up options with Variant Channel, you can Channel the Void and turn people into fine dust, you can be a pretty good summomer, a pretty good Necromancer, you can be a Divine Paragon of your deity... and most, if not all, of these options can still cover healing and condition removal. It's not as if building a fun Cleric means they forgot how to heal.
A player of mine is convinced that clerics do nothing but heal. He played through an entire AP (and then some; level 1-18) as a straight-up cleric, used a weapon (crossbow) to attack maybe 6 times, didn't have buffing spells, summoned a handful of times, and would occasionally cast spells at the enemies.
Has no one else ever played a cleric in front of him?
Has no one else ever played a cleric in front of him?
Once.
He was constantly trying to "protect" her because he thought the cleric was useless on her own. (Cleric would be fighting some enemies, he'd disengage his enemies and run across the battlefield to attack the things she was attacking because he didn't think she could do it and that the character would die.)It got to the point that when there was a report of a werewolf in the area he legit told the cleric that she should go back to town where it was safe.
(For healers in other campaigns we've had a shaman, a life oracle, a witch, and now a bard and a warpriest. He's never tried to protect any of them.)
This is sad. I see a lot of shade casted on Clerics... and I get it, the class can be boring AF if built/played by someone without enough knowledge of what options exist, or someone without imagination.
Right?!?
This particular player is convinced that PF clerics are useless compared to 3.5 clerics and all they can do is heal, so that's all he made the character do without even specializing in it (via an archetype or feats, etc).| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You might want to look at the blossoming light archetype for cleric.
No armor proficiencies, but you get 5+ cha mod channels to start and gain one more at each even level.
You also get to harm a wide variety of enemies with channel: undead, chaotic evil outsiders, worshippers of chaotic evil deities, critters with light sensitivity, and critters with light vulnerability.
That reminds me, the reach metamagic is great if you care about healing. Clerics can spontaneously cast cure spells, and there are many times where a 5 foot step away and a full round action can give you the cure spell you need where you need it, without putting yourself in any danger.
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You might want to look at the blossoming light archetype for cleric.
No armor proficiencies, but you get 5+ cha mod channels to start and gain one more at each even level.
You also get to harm a wide variety of enemies with channel: undead, chaotic evil outsiders, worshippers of chaotic evil deities, critters with light sensitivity, and critters with light vulnerability.
Fear the Sun is a spell on the Cleric list that can force light blindness on those that fail their save, too...
I'm playing a level 16 cleric for a few years now (level up from 1) and I had exactly the same idea of focusing on spells and channel
Fail ...
Cleric is a "half warrior" and must keep abilities to fight in melee or, at least, defend himself efficiently.
I play in a group of 6 aventurers, "all roles are covered". And we got good fighters. Nevertheless, from time to time, I have to fight or defend.
Yes, spells can do great to protect or help fight without investing ... until you are dispelled and/or ambushed or not ready for a fight. You can spend one round to buff yourself but afterwards, you must buff, heal, etc. your party and/or dispel, counter, etc. enemies.
So I do recommand keeping fighting abilities. Not to be the best warrior but being able to defend at least.
How well this is going to work out is going to depend on what the other characters in the party are. A low AC caster is certainly viable, but a party can only have so many of them before it starts to impact the party’s ability to survive. A party needs to have enough frontline capable characters that they can protect the more vulnerable characters. The fact that a cleric gets proficiency in medium armor may not make them a frontline combatant, but it usually means they usually don’t need as much protection as a wizard. If the other members of the party don’t need a lot of protection this would not be a big deal. If on the other hand a lot of other players are playing less defended classes, this may not be a good idea.
You might also want to consider playing an Oracle instead of a cleric. Some of the mysteries have scaling revelations that boost your AC. This is going to make not wearing armor less of a problem. The revelations can also boost up your offensive ability to compensate for the clerics lack of offensive spells. An Oracle of Heavens would probably work well for this. Since you don’t plan on using weapon the Blackened Curse would boost your offensive ability without hampering you much more than you already are. That would also give you an in-game reason to avoid using weapons.