Northern Spotted Owl's page

White draconic sorcerer gives you +1/d6 damage.

Or winter oracle for the revelation:

Freezing Spells (Su): Whenever a creature fails a saving throw and takes cold damage from one of your spells, it is slowed (as the slow spell) for 1 round. Spells that do not allow saves do not slow creatures. At 11th level, the slow duration increases to 1d4 rounds.

Magus could be good, or alchemist would work too.

And the advantages of wizard are obvious, top level spells all day.

A full BAB class would make your touch-attack spells much better and round out your saves.

I looked at Tanagaar, and he is associated with sylphs. Their -2 con makes them a poor choice for a melee character, but a stormsoul sylph has +2 dex, +2 cha, and -2 wis. Since a tempered champion gives up spell casting the hit to wis isn't so very bad for you.

As several of you will remember, this took quite a bit of work. And it might actually be of some use here.

Casters Compared

It presents the strengths & weaknesses of the various classes. Sure it's unavoidably subjective, but the collective brain trust that went into this has hopefully resulting in broadly useful values.

In terms of a choice between a Sorcerer and an Arcanist, I do think that sheer number of spells looms large. A few representative levels:

5th level
Sorcerer: 4 2nd, 6 1st
Arcanist: 3 2nd, 4 1st

8th level
Sorcerer: 3 4th, 5 3rd
Arcanist: 2 4th, 4 3rd

13th level
Sorcerer: 4 6th, 6 5th
Arcanist: 3 6th, 4 5th

An arcanist has 70-75% of the top two spell levels to cast/day, compared with a sorcerer.

I suggest that you consider the type of campaigns that your group has. If you commonly have 3+ encounters/day then I'd recommend the sorcerer more highly. If you usually have 1 or 2 encounters/day then I think either one will work for you.

I think a sorcerer is a great first choice for a full caster. You chose solid, all-around spells that you can use every day and just let loose.

Human: you get the 1 additional spell known FCB.
Half-elf: you get the above FCB plus you can cast Paragon Surge.
Kitsune: magic tail, and your FCB gives +1/4 DC to enchantments

Bloodlines

Arcane: familiar or bonded object
Astral: quicken 1/day without increasing the spell level
etc.

Lots of good choices (and lots of poor choices...).

The Tempered Champion trades out spells for feats and increases the damage of the weapon like the warpriests sacred weapon.

Yeah, this is an old thread.

Anyway, if you're still around Illuzry, why doesn't the Tempered Champion get a mention? I just saw that archetype mentioned in another thread (fighting with daggers/kukri) and getting warpriest's sacred weapon damage dice on a full BAB character with bonus feats looks beastly.

Back when we ran through (most of) Wrath of the Righteous, one person played a Tempered Champion Paladin of Tanagaar for full BAB big damage dice Kukri fun.

That looks like an amazing build. I'd never come across the Tempered Champion.

If you go with the (excellent option of) warpriest, you might as well use kukri for their 18-20 crit range. You no longer care that they're 1d3 weapons. At 11th level you can take Improved Critical for a 15-20 crit range.

And if by luck you have a witch who takes the fortune hex then your crits skyrocket (one combat per day). Boring math below:

18-20 range means an 85% if not getting a crit. 85% * 85% = 72%, that is you have a 72% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll, and hence a 28% chance of getting a crit.

15-20 means 70% * 70% = 49% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll. That's right, 51% of the time you crit.

Cheers

You want Greater Possession, an 8th level spell.

From my own viewpoint, I'd eagerly and enthusiastically play probably the most non-optimal combinations of Sorcerer4/Shaman4 with a Mystic Theurge, and I'd still classify it as worth consideration.

...

The conclusion I've reached is that you simply cannot change some people's mind about certain options until you hand walk them through the journey of playing such a character so they get to experience it directly.

Cheers Deathless.

Yes, all of that I am aware of. I've never stated a Mystic Theurge is better than a single classed caster. Instead of arguing about why someone shouldn't take it, I am advising them on the best ways to do it. And how to go about staying relevant throughout your adventuring career while doing it.

Faith Magic is the only entry I think is worth serious consideration.

Wizard 7/Cleric 1/MT 10/Wizard 2

You only give up a level of wizard progress, which is tolerable. The down side is that your divine spells are quite a bit behind your arcane ones. But if you want to have Lesser Restoration on hand, it's not a terrible route.

I think your party is solid and will do just fine. If you don't change a thing you don't have any real worries.

If you replace the swashbuckler with a fighter I do think that the +2 to hit and reactive strike will be a noticeable improvement in combat. Basically, a swashbuckler and a thaumaturge need to spend actions to get in big hits. A fighter just hits stuff without any preparatory actions, and hits successfully more often, and they get in reactive strikes.

There's nothing wrong with that party.

Cleric -- healing & divine spells
Druid -- blasting, primal spells, maybe some combat
Monk -- mobility, good saves, reliable damage
Swash -- mobility, precision damage
Thaum -- utility (tome, regalia, whatever), single-target damage

Let's pick three solid classes that you don't have:

Fighter/Barbarian -- consistent high damage
Rogue -- precision damage & skills
Sorcerer -- control, blasting, etc

So then your options (as I imagine them) would be:

1. Swap in a fighter/barb for the monk or swash. I generally think this would be a win.

2. Swap in a rogue for the swash. This might be an improvement, depending on what skills the other party members have (including whether the thaum has a tome)

3. Swap in a sorc for the druid. I think this is mostly a wash.

Cheers

There are a bunch of two-in-one implements that are logically consistent. Any implement could also be regalia. You could have a tome with mirrored cover. A spiked shield could be both a shield and a weapon.

But those are all too-clever bits of rules lawyering that only a particularly accommodating DM would accept. The Thaumaturge is designed to require holding one implement in each hand.

In the topic at hand, I’d suggest a champion archetype for a Thaumaturge in a front-liner role. The combination of of lay-on-hands and shield reaction are great additions. Plus, you get access to heavy armor.

Let's consider a witch at 5th & 8th levels, respectively. We'll give her an int of 20.

Level 5
Uses area control spells, then targets individual opponents with hexes. Has the feat Accursed Hex so she can reuse Slumber when a target successfully saves. Falls back on Misfortune/Cackle for constructs/undead/etc who are immune to Slumber.
Feats: accursed hex
Hexes: slumber, misfortune, cackle
Spells
1st: enlarge person, keyhole, mage armor, sow thought
2nd: blindness, euphoric cloud, web
3rd: sleet storm, summon monster iii

Level 8
Buffs allies via Soothsayer/Protective Luck/Cackle at the start of day and after every encounter. Note that Protective Luck is one of the few hexes without a limitation of 1/day/target.
Hexes: protective luck, soothsayer, cackle, flight
Spells
1st: command, ears of the city, enlarge person, hermean potential, mage armor
2nd: detect thoughts, glitterdust, perceive cues, web
3rd: lightning bolt, summon monster iii, stinking cloud, thorny entanglement
4th: black tentacles, confusion, summon monster iv

I’ve been playing a witch from level 5-16 for the last while. I’ve never thought he didn’t hold his own. And intermittently he just wins an encounter with the right spell or hex. But I joined the campaign at level 5, so missed the first few levels when a caster is weakest.

hmmm, I'm gonna use a spoiler as it's more general Advice

Northern Spotted Owl and I run wizards a bit differently. There are many paths to success.
** spoiler omitted **

I don't disagree with a word of that.

From that list alone I’m feeling a strong caster expending a top level spell could consistently account for 1/4 to 1/2 of enemies neutralized in one round (or all in the right circumstance).

Do those estimates seem right?

What about for mid-level spells, reduce enemy effectiveness 1/4?

The mid-levels have fewer of these mass/area effect spells. Favorites of mine include: mass debilitating pain, mass suggestion, or mass mydriatic spontenaity. So the Heighten metamagic feat becomes more attractive. You also start to get some of the bleakest single target spells: baleful polymorph, suffocation, dominate person, feeblemind.

You also run into more Spell Resistance, so you need feats like Spell Penetration and eventually Greater Spell Penetration. If you're an int-based caster then a numerology cylinder helps there too.

I or one of my party members have won a combat with almost any one of these spells at some point. One of my favorite moments was when my witch cast Web into a hallway of opponents, and then followed that up with Vomit Swarm: Spiders.

Another favorite moment was when our wizard cast Summon Monster for a Giant Scorpion (which takes a full round), another party member opened the door into a room full of our opponents, my witch cast Sleet Storm, the wizard cast Spiked Pit, and we closed the door and wedged it shut.

So everyone in the room was blind, while the scorpion had tremorsense. Sure, that was three of our best spells on one encounter, but it was the capstone of a module. Between falling into the spiked pit while blindly trying to find the door, and the giant scorpion grabbing & poisoning them we were left with far few opponents.

Some of the best combat spells are area effects. I'll lean toward arcane spells, since I know them best.

2nd
create pit
euphoric cloud
glitterdust
web

3rd
fireball
sleet storm
spiked pit
stinking cloud

4th
black tentacles
confusion
fear
ice storm
wall of fire
wall of ice

To those add Haste and the Summon Monster spells.

I or one of my party members have won a combat with almost any one of these spells at some point. One of my favorite moments was when my witch cast Web into a hallway of opponents, and then followed that up with Vomit Swarm: Spiders.

Northern Spotted Owl wrote:

If a Cartomancer takes the prehensile hair hex they have hair with a strength matching their intelligence. If you throw your cards with your hair I would think you would get the corresponding str bonus to damage. You're only doing perhaps 10 damage, but I suppose that's better than 5.

"Her hair can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand."

No throwing cards with your eyebrows, unfortunately.

Parentheses getting everyone in the thread.

Well spotted

If a Cartomancer takes the prehensile hair hex they have hair with a strength matching their intelligence. If you throw your cards with your hair I would think you would get the corresponding str bonus to damage. You're only doing perhaps 10 damage, but I suppose that's better than 5.

Northern Spotted Owl wrote:

Swine (8th level or above) -- Not as powerful as Slumber, but no mind-affecting limitations.

Also no save. It just works.

It's pretty terrific, at least past 8th level. But there is a save, note the parenthetic "(Will negates)".

Swine hex

Swine (Su) (Heroes of Golarion pg. 15): The witch can partially transform an enemy into a pig. The effects of the transformation are mostly cosmetic and do not change the creature’s size category or overall shape, but the affected creature takes a –2 penalty on Will saving throws for a number of rounds equal to the witch’s Intelligence modifier (Will negates). At 8th level, the affected creature’s hands (or paws) turn into hooves, preventing it from using claw attacks or taking any action that would require the creature to use its fingers.

You should look at which hexes you really want. I think these are the best of them:

- slumber
- flight
- misfortune (constructs, undead, etc.)
- cackle, to support misfortune
- ice tomb

Alternately, the buff hex build is very strong:

- protective luck -- does not have the 1/day restriction
- soothsayer
- fortune

By 10th level you have 5 hexes as a Cartomancer.

For your first question, the Stargazer does not advance your *witch level* and so does not get you to a major hex. You will want 10 levels of actual witch.

The key feature of a Cartomancer is Deadly Dealer.

- You can deliver touch spells at a *ranged* touch attack
- At 2nd level you get Deadly Dealer: Your cards do 1d4 damage, as if they were a dart, with a bit of bonus damage from Arcane Strike

So you'll want to prioritize your dex score. Here are some particularly nice touch spells from the witch list.

1st: Frostbite, Touch of blindness
2nd: Touch of idiocy
3rd: Bestow curse, Excruciating deformity, Trial of fire & acid, Vampiric touch
4th: Fleshworm infestation
5th: Curse of unexpected death
6th: none
7th: Bestow Greater Curse, Harm, Plane shift
8th: Irresistible dance
9th: none

On your Stargazer familiar question, yes that's how I read that. Your Stargazer familiar would only scale with your Stargazer levels.

I've seen some builds that take 2 or 4 levels of white-haired witch.

One option isn't exclusively grapple focused, but stacks debuffs to include grappled.

Defiler: White-haired Witch 2 / Hexcrafter N

If you google "white-haired witch defiler" you'll find a fair bit of detail. It stacks grappled, tripped, fatigued (from spellstrike frostbite).

I'll run through a few items.

First, have you had a direct, non-confrontational conversation with them? That is, can you just tell them that combat is getting frustrating because their turns take so long. That it would really help everyone to enjoy combat more if they had planned their turn by the time it came around.

And, if they are using their phones primarily to browse instagram or whatever then I'd mention that. It's just selfish to disengage from the combat and then not know what's going on when your turn comes around. Obviously it would be inappropriate & confrontational to phrase it like that, but they need to hear that they're making their friend's play less enjoyable. And that message has to come from a place of genuine friendship.

After that I'd suggest that these players might want to use simpler classes. E.g. lean toward martial classes rather than casters.

They could also have 2 or 3 plans to fall back on for their turns. If 70-80% of the time they just chose from among three "standard turns" that might help.

You could also prime some of this organically. E.g. your warpriest calls out that they need the ranger's help with this ogre.

It's a touch spell with no save, but when/why would I do this versus my flaming sword attack? Against a high AC target maybe.

You have a good chance (touch attack) of doing modest damage (3d6 = 10.5) and occasionally getting a free intimidate. It's a pretty poor choice as far as I can tell.

If you haven't cast Web on a hallway full of opponents and then followed it up with Vomit Swarm: spiders, well then you're just not getting the most out of your witch.

My take on good hexes:

Evil Eye is only fine. It softens up a target, but it also takes a round. Since combat is usually decided in the first 3-4 rounds, that's a lot.

Misfortune is almost always better, their attacks are worse and so are their saves. And it works on any target, where undead/constructs/swarms/mindless are a witch's weak spot.

Slumber is so good it's almost broken, so much so that some players/DMs avoid it. It steals the lime light. And it's mind-affecting.

Soothsayer/Protective Luck/Fortune -- These are terrifically powerful. Sure, fortune is only 1/day but you can either put it on one melee party member before each encounter or save it for when you suspect a big encounter is coming.

Flight -- You're a fool if you don't take this. Or at least your character concept better preclude it. :)

Swine (8th level or above) -- Not as powerful as Slumber, but no mind-affecting limitations. Also, it came out near the end of Pathfinder 1e's active production run so there aren't a lot of clarification. E.g. does it prevent somatic gestures or require some sort of roll against ... something? If someone is running, might they trip when their feet transform to hooves? Or are they now better at climbing?

Prehensile Hair -- Agreed, it's redundant for a Cartomancer.

And the Summon Monster spells are of course terrific.

In one memorable encounter my witch and our wizard paired up to cast: Sleet Storm (blocks all sight) and Summon Monster: Giant Scorpion (tremorsense) into a room full of enemies just as another party member opened the door.

Finally, have a look at Northern Spotted Owl's Witch Guide. It is very good and up to date.

Kind of you. Here: it is.

In terms of healing, good options include:

- Buy a wand of cure light wounds. This is an incredible value.
- The Healing hex is pretty great at lower levels, but decreasingly worth the hex slot once you can afford a wand of CLW.
- The Healing patron gets you Lesser Restoration, which is one of the key spells the Witch list lacks for this role.

For hexes, I'd look at:
- Fortune -- This pairs really well with Soothsayer, even if it's only 1/day. A hit that would have a 50% chance jumps to 75% (since 50% x 50% = 25% of missing on both rolls). And it's in fact over-powered if any of your party members lean into critical hits. Consider a weapon with a 19-20 crit range and a character that takes Improved Critical to expand that to 17-20. With the Fortune hex applied they would need to roll 1-16 twice in a row (80% x 80% = 64%), which means that a full 36% of the time they crit.
- Prehensile Hair -- This is a ton of fun, it can allow you to deliver touch range spells for a modestly safe distance (consider a wand of lesser reach too). And it adds a high strength character to your party if you don't otherwise have one.
- Swine -- Once you're 8th level this (particularly when it's backed by the feat Split Hex) is a ton of fun, and effective too. Martial characters can't hold weapons, in fact any character drops what they're holding. Spell casters may not be able to cast spells with a somatic component (run this past your DM in advance so you're on the same page).

For spells I think you really want to consider flavor as well as tactical impact. So I'll list some of both.

1st
enlarge person
hermean potential -- a great spell when someone must make their saving throw(s), make a skill check, or hit a tough opponent (overlaps with Fortune hex there).
obscuring mist -- place this on top of enemy archers or spell casters. use it to sneak through an opening in the trees. cast it into a room full of enemies just as an ally opens the door.
sow thought -- this is a permanent effect. "that ogre doesn't care if I live or die, I'm not fighting for them any longer" "that witch looks trustworthy" "I think I saw movement over there, I should go investigate"
unbreakable heart -- counters fear & confusion. provides additional saves vs hostile control. a lot of value once you're no longer relying on 1st level spells.

2nd
blindness -- this just shuts down an opponent, can end an encounter or shift it in your favor quickly
euphoric cloud -- great battlefield control
glitterdust -- reveal the invisible and temporarily blind some of your opponents
vomit swarm -- a decent spell, since many opponents can't handle a swarm. and enormously fun.
web -- great control, and pairs well with vomit swarm: spiders

3rd
sleet storm -- blocks *all sight*, 1/2 movement
stinking cloud -- area effect nauseated
thorny entanglement -- reduce movement, modest damage, very likely to shut down enemy casters

I would add the Fortune hex to that lineup. Another fun option is Prehensile Hair to help with some of your touch-range curses.

I’ll look at spells tomorrow.

You really need to think about your reactions, because that's a semi-reliable 4th action. Your best choices are:

- weapon implement/implement's interuption (5th level): very good, but only against your Exploit Vulnerability target

- fighter archetype/reactive strike (4th level): decide whether this is worth 3 feats

- marshal archetype/reactive strike (8th level): this archetype complements the regalia, but delays your reaction until 8th level

- champion archetype/champion's reaction (6th level): you have your choice of Causes, and hence reactions, and you can take Lay on Hands at 4th. And lay on hands gets you a focus point.

I suggest you go with something like:

Free Archetype: Champion
Normal Archetype: Marshal

That gets you two reactions by 8th level, which should be enough to increase your effective actions/round to nearly 4.

Back to the original question, running out of spells is what attracted me to the witch. I think optimal play is for a witch to cast area effect spells (web, glitterdust, sleet storm, confusion) and then target individuals with hexes.

Thank you both. That puts me in the right ballpark.

For any race that is Paragon Surge:T4@7 (see Liberation subdomain).

Nice catch on the Self-Realization Sub-domain. That's a useful touchpoint.

And a 15% discount seems reasonable. There are a *lot* of other feats out there, but for a witch or shaman (hexcrafter, sylvan trickster, what-have-you), Extra Hex is often going to be your choice.

1. The character is a half elf, so I was hand-waving that detail.

2. I only see a modification for slotless items (2x). But that's why I asked, for details I'm missing...

Thank ya

Good morning. I have a couple of custom witch (not exclusively witches though) items that I'd like pricing feedback on, mostly due to their limitations.

Ring: Paragon Surge 2/day, can only choose the feat Extra Hex.

For a spell effect that comes to:

3nd level spell * 5th level caster * (2 uses / 5) * 1800 = 10,800

But how much of a discount do we add for restricting it to a single feat? Note that Paragon Surge only permits feats that you otherwise qualify for, so only a class with hexes can use this ring.

Necklace: Works as a rod of reach, but only for spells with the curse descriptor.

The rod costs 11,000, so the necklace would be the same (unless I'm missing something). But again, how much of a discount should we apply for the curse restriction?

Thanks all.

If you go slayer, you can use slayer talents to pick up ranger combat style two weapon fighting. This allows you to ignore the prerequisite for feats gained through taking those talents. This means you can build a STR based two weapon build. Take power attack and weapon focus at first level. Use slayer talents at 2nd, 6th and 10th level to pick up two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting and either greater two weapon fighting or double slice. Accomplished Sneak Attacker will get you an extra d6 of sneak attack. Take improved critical if you want, but keep in mind that sneak attack damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.

You can also pick up combat expertise and quick dirty trick to use your first attack to blind your target which would allow you to get your sneak attack damage on the rest of your attacks. Greater dirty trick would also be useful. Doing this will take up all your feats and talents up till 9th level. You will need to take the combat trick to pick up an extra combat feat if you go this route.

If you don’t go with my optional suggestions the rest of your feats and talent can be spent on other things. This character would deal less damage but have a lot more things they can do out of combat.

We had a slayer built along these lines. He took improved crit, two weapon, power attack, and wielded two wakizashi. Impressive damage overall.

Northern Spotted Owl wrote:

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

My suggestion- play a witch or play a monk. Trying to do both is... sub-optimal.

I think this could be a fine strategy for a monk that wants to dip 1 level into witch. Your BAB is 1 level behind, but hex strike + slumber is powerful enough to justify that at lower-to-mid levels.

I mean, if 20-40% of your rounds to drop someone with slumber that's kind of amazing. And the opponents you're going to be punching are often ones with good fort or reflex saves, but poorer will saves.

In a campaign from 1-10 level I think this is viable.

Problem is that as a Monk that never gets more than 1 level of Witch, your Hex Save DC will remain at 1st level.

Related to this, VMC Witch (which was mentioned a while back) it has this problem as well until you get to be 15th level for the first Hex you chose to be advanced . . . to 8th level, and the NEXT one is stuck at 1st level. Second worst VMC ever, after VMC Gunslinger.

The the witch VMC is pretty bad. I don't even mention it.

Here's my take on the witch 1/monk N slumber-strike though. Sure you have a low DC, perhaps 11 or 12. Let's say you're punching a 6th level fighter with a will save of +2 and a cloak for another +1. So they only need an 8 to save. But that's still a 35% chance of going down.

If you're punching a 10th level paladin (will save +7, wis +2, cloak +2) you're only succeeding when they roll a natural 1. So you don't bother.

Is a 20-40% success rate on slumber-strike worth 1 BAB and 2 feats? In a campaign that runs from 1st to 6th or maybe 10th level, I think so. At least as long as you're savvy about your targets.

and in most cases it doesn't last all that long.

The creature will not wake due to noise or light, but others can rouse it with a standard action.

So a slumber hex can last a surprising while. Consider an unchained rogue with a weapon in one hand and the other hand free. How highly would you rate a feat that let it apply slumber to an unarmed attack, including any attacks of opportunity? Again, most of the opponents you're in melee with don't have great will saves.

At 8th level the swine hex gets quite strong. They drop whatever they're holding. They probably can't cast any spells that have a somatic component. But for a hexcrafter or sylvan trickster with a 14 or 16 int you're only getting 2 or 3 rounds, compared with 5 or more rounds for a witch.

My suggestion- play a witch or play a monk. Trying to do both is... sub-optimal.

I think this could be a fine strategy for a monk that wants to dip 1 level into witch. Your BAB is 1 level behind, but hex strike + slumber is powerful enough to justify that at lower-to-mid levels.

I mean, if 20-40% of your rounds to drop someone with slumber that's kind of amazing. And the opponents you're going to be punching are often ones with good fort or reflex saves, but poorer will saves.

In a campaign from 1-10 level I think this is viable.

I'd ask your GM about the armor as *2 lrg humanoid or *4 lrg non-humanoid is a considerable base cost increase considering your form is mostly humanoid. That ruling is a 'GM caveat'.

you know your campaign; will you get a +4 Dex belt? will you be able to upgrade the 4mirror armor to Tatami-do later? It's a matter of take the hit now or later.

"Items that can save you" thread will have lower cost items.

I have to agree. Since you just rolled trox, it seems a bit much for you to have to pay 4x for armor. Hopefully you and the GM can agree to at least get you an initial set of armor at 1x.

On hexes in regards to sylvan trickster, I would be interested in your material since I am presently playing one.

Would it be useful to have a synopsis of good hex choices for other classes? Not the shaman, since that class is really its own beast with its own hexes, etc.

hexcrafter
sylvan trickster
hoaxer bard
hexenhammer
divine scourge
purifier

stargazer
vmc witch

Northern Spotted Owl wrote:

{. . .}

re: Hex Class Feature -- Fair points. I agree too, a Hexcrafter or Sylvan Trickster should each be able to use Hex Strike.

I'm not convinced that either of them want to go with unarmed strikes. A shame that Hexcrafter and Esoteric Magus don't stack.
{. . .}

What about Hexcrafter Magus VMC Monk? Maybe even start with Improved Unarmed Strike, and then retrain it when VMC Monk comes online. Although you would need to spend a Magus Arcana on Ki Arcana to get the best use of it, and the options for trading out armor for something that doesn't clash with VMC Monk are rather limited (Staff Magus seems best, although Hex Strike won't work through your staff, so you'll have to keep switching between your staff and Unarmed Strikes).

I was going to say Sylvan Trickster Rogue VMC Monk, but then the Evasion ability gets duplicated.

Improved Unarmed Strike > Ascetic Style > Hex Strike

You probably want to be human so you can bring this online by 2nd level.

But I think we're no longer talking about a witch guide. :)

That's the sort of logic that would have you rule that neither Druids or Rangers can use the Totem Beast or Boon Companion feats because neither of them have class features labeled as "animal companion" (they're labeled Nature Bond or Hunter's Bond) even though they are clearly meant to be able to use these feats.

The more common standard is that so long as you have a hex as a class feature you have a hex class feature. And the Hexcrafter's class features that grant hexes even specifically have "hex" in the name.

re: Hex Class Feature -- Fair points. I agree too, a Hexcrafter or Sylvan Trickster should each be able to use Hex Strike.

I'm not convinced that either of them want to go with unarmed strikes. A shame that Hexcrafter and Esoteric Magus don't stack.

I come away thinking that Witch 1/Monk X is a pretty great low level build. And that Witch/Monk is a solid gestalt build, maybe with Kirin feats to mitigate how MAD it would be.

At any rate, Northern Spotted Owl, I would sooner recommend just doing an unarmed strike build as a Hexcrafter Magus or Sylvan Trickster Unchained Rogue if you want to do a Hex Strike build. If you want to use Hex Strike multiple times in the same round, you will need Combat Stamina. And since the feat is unhelpfully worded, I will point out that a combat stamina pool is equal to your BAB plus your constitution modifier. You can recover 1 point of combat stamina with 1 minute of rest.

Sadly, neither the Hexcrafter or Sylvan Trickster has the "hex class feature" that Hex Strike requires. I believe only the witch herself has that.

In terms of Combat Stamina, I don't see how it gets you past the limit of 1 quick action per round.

My mistake.

I am not so sold on hex strike however.

To hit someone with a hex you use a standard action the target gets a save.

To use hex strike, you also need to add improved unarmed strike and hex strike, 2 feats.

Then, to effect someone with hex strike you use a standard action, roll to hit. If you miss nothing happens and if you hit then the target still gets a save. And you need to take hex strike a second time to be able to use it with a second hex and so on.

I don't like the strategy especially if you have levels of the 1/2 BaB and d6 HP witch class.

Counterpoint :) If you're a monk, and you want to hit people with your fists anyway, then getting a "free" slumber 1/round at the cost of 1 BAB might be a pretty good bargain.

At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

So you only need to take 1 feat, which isn't a huge investment.

The touch attack limitation is on a conductive weapon. A hex strike applies to an unarmed attack.

If you make a successful unarmed strike against an opponent, in addition to dealing your unarmed strike damage, you can use a swift action to deliver the effects of the chosen hex to that opponent.

So I think the witch 1/monk X build is okay. Well, almost so. Because the hex is delivered as a swift action you cannot do this twice in a single round via flurry of blows and accursed hex.

I did add a brief write-up for a witch 1/monk X with: slumber, hex strike & accursed hex. This is an over-powered build at lower levels, but falls off because your hex DC doesn't progress.

I do think it would be a terrifying gestalt build.