Is it these forums? A social media group? Discord? Redmond, Washington?
What is (or what do you think is) the largest concentration of Pathfinder roleplayers?
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Extremely not this forum.
Asking where the highest concentration of gamers are is basically impossible as it's impossible to get a sample size consisting of every single person who plays, especially given how many don't talk about it online.
Getting exact numbers is pretty much impossible sure, but I'm sure some people can point out the largest groups they're aware of.
Maybe people will be surprised by some of the answers, and will have the opportunity to meet more of their fellow roleplayers as a result.
In my experience, the San Francisco Bay Area has a lot of players overall. Seattle Area has a lot of players in a pretty small area. The Midwest has a lot of players per capita.
The Glass Cannon live shows did not stop in the SFBA at all, I think they hit Portland and LA, Philly and Atlanta, and a bunch of Midwestern cities. So ... who knows.
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There are 36k members in the PF2 subreddit. I can't think of another "location" that could have more.
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Society isn't all of pathfinder by any stretch but you can see all the lodges on the Flat rolling surfaces map
Wow. Wyoming and Montana are totally empty. I thought for sure we'd have lodges in all the states.
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I wish could tell you I have a lot of secret data, but *most* of what is posted here is what I know. North America. Reddit. These Forums. Partner forums. Demiplane is the newest. Some Facebook Groups. Twitter as a whole. Many Discords. Org Play physical and online. We have multiple communities. Some overlap. Some don't. All growing slow and steady.
Brasil is more lively than you might know.
The Pathfinder 1 e community is dividing/divided from the 2e. But I stil want to support them as much as I can. Especially with Infinite and Print on Demand now.
The home-brewers are not necessarily a part of any community, except their own table.
A fascinating challenge.
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Wow. Wyoming and Montana are totally empty. I thought for sure we'd have lodges in all the states.
One of the things that I kind of knew but really hit home during the pandemic was the number of people who did not have an active PFS Lodge near them. I met a good number of people who were 4+ hours from the nearest regular game, who, prior to the pandemic, would travel to conventions and play a 6 months' worth of PFS in 4 days, and then go home and digest it all like that snake that ate an elephant in The Little Prince.
One other thing that tends to get overlooked is that there are very large swings in population density in a geographical map. The San Francisco Bay Area (9 dots on BNW's map) has about the same population as Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nebraska combined (10 dots on BNW's map? Some dots might overlap, not sure).
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One other thing that tends to get overlooked is that there are very large swings in population density in a geographical map. The San Francisco Bay Area (9 dots on BNW's map) has about the same population as Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nebraska combined (10 dots on BNW's map? Some dots might overlap, not sure).
It's not just the population its the population density.
You need x number of geeks within driving distance of each other
You need so many geeks all playing Xfinder.
They need to be willing to play society
They need to be able to meet up at the same time
once you hit that, society becomes a self advertising thing, making more geeks and more people willing to play that way and to play xfinder but until you hit that critical mass it's really hard to have exist. Having nearby areas of geekery helps too, they can polinate your area.
I wish could tell you I have a lot of secret data, but *most* of what is posted here is what I know. North America. Reddit. These Forums. Partner forums. Demiplane is the newest. Some Facebook Groups. Twitter as a whole. Many Discords. Org Play physical and online. We have multiple communities. Some overlap. Some don't. All growing slow and steady.
Brasil is more lively than you might know.
The Pathfinder 1 e community is dividing/divided from the 2e. But I stil want to support them as much as I can. Especially with Infinite and Print on Demand now.
The home-brewers are not necessarily a part of any community, except their own table.
A fascinating challenge.
Thanks for sharing this great data, Aaron. It's interesting to hear what you've learned. Thanks, RavingDork. Always a good topic starter.
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I would say the highest concentration of Pathfinder roleplayers is wherever the second save of Phantasmal Killer is being rolled after a hero point on the first one was still a critical failure.
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I am amused that my players live in two different time zones so that my Friday game session begins at 6pm EST and 3pm PST. My campaign started at our dining room table with my wife, housemates, and local friends near Ithaca, NY. In March 2020 for pandemic protection we stopped meeting in person and shifted to Roll20. My elder daughter in Seattle, WA, asked to join us. In November 2020 my younger daughter and an online friend from Elder Scrolls Online joined in. They both live near Portland, OR.
My younger daughter is also playing online in a PF1 game located in Seattle, WA, and she invited the online friend to join that game, too. Thus, we have overlap between PF1 and PF2 players.
I am amused that my players live in two different time zones so that my Friday game session begins at 6pm EST and 3pm PST. My campaign started at our dining room table with my wife, housemates, and local friends near Ithaca, NY. In March 2020 for pandemic protection we stopped meeting in person and shifted to Roll20. My elder daughter in Seattle, WA, asked to join us. In November 2020 my younger daughter and an online friend from Elder Scrolls Online joined in. They both live near Portland, OR.
My younger daughter is also playing online in a PF1 game located in Seattle, WA, and she invited the online friend to join that game, too. Thus, we have overlap between PF1 and PF2 players.
An aside: I always love hearing about your family gaming together. It is very wholesome and nice.
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Our Gen Con livestreams included players from Sweden to Australia. That was cool.
Ithaca, NY
Nice.
I would expect Reddit would be it, with Foundry in second place, and Facebook or Roll20 in third or fourth though I couldn't guess at the order. I'd expect in-person play, even at a lodge or FLGS, to be way down the list and even a convention would be smaller than some FB groups, let alone the site as a whole.
I wish could tell you I have a lot of secret data, but *most* of what is posted here is what I know. North America. Reddit. These Forums. Partner forums. Demiplane is the newest. Some Facebook Groups. Twitter as a whole. Many Discords. Org Play physical and online. We have multiple communities. Some overlap. Some don't. All growing slow and steady.
Brasil is more lively than you might know.
The Pathfinder 1 e community is dividing/divided from the 2e. But I stil want to support them as much as I can. Especially with Infinite and Print on Demand now.
The home-brewers are not necessarily a part of any community, except their own table.
A fascinating challenge.
Well it is like asking 'where is the greatest concentration of storytellers'? It is a bit...unanswerable.
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I would expect Reddit would be it, with Foundry in second place, and Facebook or Roll20 in third or fourth though I couldn't guess at the order. I'd expect in-person play, even at a lodge or FLGS, to be way down the list and even a convention would be smaller than some FB groups, let alone the site as a whole.
Roll20 has waay more use than foundry. For online cons a roll20 table doesn't need to say its a roll20 table, its just the default unless you specify otherwise. I see more fantasy ground than foundry (I can tolerate foundry, but not fg)
I would expect Reddit would be it, with Foundry in second place, and Facebook or Roll20 in third or fourth though I couldn't guess at the order. I'd expect in-person play, even at a lodge or FLGS, to be way down the list and even a convention would be smaller than some FB groups, let alone the site as a whole.Roll20 has waay more use than foundry. For online cons a roll20 table doesn't need to say its a roll20 table, its just the default unless you specify otherwise. I see more fantasy ground than foundry (I can tolerate foundry, but not fg)
Use in general, yes. That said, I've seen too many people assert that PF2 gets more play on other TTS sites than it does on Roll20 to think there isn't something to it.
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Use in general, yes. That said, I've seen too many people assert that PF2 gets more play on other TTS sites than it does on Roll20 to think there isn't something to it.I would expect Reddit would be it, with Foundry in second place, and Facebook or Roll20 in third or fourth though I couldn't guess at the order. I'd expect in-person play, even at a lodge or FLGS, to be way down the list and even a convention would be smaller than some FB groups, let alone the site as a whole.Roll20 has waay more use than foundry. For online cons a roll20 table doesn't need to say its a roll20 table, its just the default unless you specify otherwise. I see more fantasy ground than foundry (I can tolerate foundry, but not fg)
People claim all sorts of silly nonsense without evidence. Is there anything more human?
The simple fact is that there isn't good data on this kind of thing because decentralized communities are hard to track.
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I've heard that too: that just about everyone who does Pathfinder 2e online uses Foundry over other VTTs.
With the recent difficulty of finding Roll20 groups online lately, I was starting to believe that there had been some sort of mass migration between VTTs. Despite the alleged rise of online roleplay this year, I don't think I've ever seen more than maybe 20 open campaigns on Roll20 for PF2E.
It got me to invest in Foundry. And I've toyed around with it quite a bit too. But in the six months I've had it, I've not been able to either host or play in a single Foundry game.
Best I can figure, it has numerous ready to use fan-made tools--which are broken more often than not due to constant updates and poor coordination (relatively speaking; considering that they are free-working fans, they are actually VERY coordinated--but multiple disparate groups will never match a single paid focus group).
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Best I can figure, it has numerous ready to use fan-made tools--which are broken more often than not due to constant updates and poor coordination (relatively speaking; considering that they are free-working fans, they are actually VERY coordinated--but multiple disparate groups will never match a single paid focus group).
Broken more often than not is flat-out untrue. The last major update to Foundry was 0.8 released in February this year. The most recent update was 0.8.9 released in August of this year. The last time things were 'broken' was with the 0.8 release which had repeated statements posted on Reddit, Discord, the Foundry program, and the Foundry website, telling users not to update until creators had a chance to respond to the update. There is no urgent reason to update the program without waiting on those folks and there is nothing that forces you to do so. Additionally, Foundry has switched over to larger bundled releases starting with 0.9. It's looking like 0.9 will release in Jan-Feb of next year giving you an entire year of stability which would have been longer if a user doesn't rush to update after being repeatedly warned not to.
As far as people using Foundry over Roll20 all you have to do is venture over to the PF2 subreddit and there's no doubt about it. Roll20 is an outdated dinosaur populated by legacy players. Most people getting into the hobby today aren't interested in the platform outside of being forced to use it for PFS at conventions. I might even go as far as to say they should be discouraged from using it. The program is clunky, you have to purchase things you already own a second time, require a subscription to have all the features, and the amount of time for them to add new content proceeds at a glacial pace. Alternatively, you can make a one-time purchase that covers your entire playgroup, is easier to use, fully customizable, has PF2e content released in the same week if not the same day as it's released, the PF2 module is constantly adding features (this doesn't break your game ever), etc.
I've heard that too: that just about everyone who does Pathfinder 2e online uses Foundry over other VTTs.
Or doesn't use VTTs at all: I play inline and don't use VTTs. ;)
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Best I can figure, it has numerous ready to use fan-made tools--which are broken more often than not due to constant updates and poor coordination (relatively speaking; considering that they are free-working fans, they are actually VERY coordinated--but multiple disparate groups will never match a single paid focus group).
I have been playing an using it fine as a new user over the same time frame.
The first update I did broke a few things. Which I repaired or disabled what I couldn't fix. Now I don't update, and won't until the next campaign. That works fine for us.The system suffers from the common problem of the JS world and distributed software communities, you are dependant on a lot of different people to update things. Sometimes they just don't. Updates do sometimes break things. Try and put togther an old Node JS project from just say 2 years ago and get the dependancies to work. It is hard if it is not an area of IT you are working in.
However none of my players want to go back to Roll20. They all agree that it is a generational shift in capability.
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People always confuse popular and good.
Foundry may or may not be a better product*, Roll20 almost certainly has more players. If the Foundry proponents are really prolific, maybe Foundry has more games played (despite having fewer players). But as someone mentioned above, Roll20 is the default for most public-facing events. Everyone knows Roll20, and some people know Roll20 plus Foundry, but very few know Foundry and not Roll20.
* IME, Foundry is better.
Contributor
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Google Slides! Google Slides! Why go fancy when you can go primitive?
Seriously, I GMed all my VTTs on Google Slides during the pandemic, using discord for voice and dice rolls. And it was great because the format did not get in the way of my storytelling.
Hmm
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Their frankly pathetic...unwieldy character sheet further make me glad I cancelled my Pro subscription...
I keep hearing people rag on the 2e Pathfinder character sheet in Roll20, but I rather like it. What is it about it that people seem to loath so much.
(I recognize that you were likely talking about the 1e sheet.)
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Google Slides! Google Slides! Why go fancy when you can go primitive?
Seriously, I GMed all my VTTs on Google Slides during the pandemic, using discord for voice and dice rolls. And it was great because the format did not get in the way of my storytelling.
Hmm
When you prep a roll20 table (which at this point takes me about 10 minutes longer per bad guy than google slides) you can put ALL of your brain on the story telling. You do the math before the game, that frees you up to do the story in game. I don't need to know what the dragons attack bonus is, or the DC of its lightning breath, or how multi attack works. I click the button, the computer does the math, and get to describing the blood splatter and how much of the explorer's feet are still visible outside of the toothy maw :) This time of year its handy to be able to dm with my socks still on.
Slides and discord drive me nuts because the information is in two different places, or three for the DM. The slides, the discord, and the scenario. Unless you have a really big screen or two screens, they're two places you can't see at the same time.
Yeah, the lack of condition automation (or any built in spell effects, really) even after buying the CRB through r20, as well as the gigantic brown blocks that make up the sections were just so much. You could read like one spell at a time in the spell section.
(The official 1e r20 sheet was passable if not very functional, the community sheet was much more robust but you could program things in if you knew r20 macro syntax - Foundry also made that easier by just having a series of check and text boxes you can hit to modify what a buff does.)
Foundry has automation for most things in 2e, particularly conditions and buffs which are what really need them. Automating resistance is coming soon:tm: because it is a complicated thing to code for.
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Roll20 sheets have automated condition tracking now.
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Is it these forums? A social media group? Discord? Redmond, Washington?
What is (or what do you think is) the largest concentration of Pathfinder roleplayers?
Minnesota! They are everywhere up there!
And they are delightful!
Yeah, r20 sheets have condition tracking.
Applying non-conditional situational bonuses is a little clunky though, as far as I can tell there's no way to automate/toggle things like sneak attack, arcane cascade, etc. Additional damage in general is awkward too.
Their 5e sheets have a built in section where you can fill in attack/damage bonuses and toggle them at will, something like that in their PF2 version would be great.
I put things like Sneak Attack into the Additional Damage field. If I don't need it on a given attack, then I just ignore those damage dice.
For my two tables I hombrew while using the PF2 rule set so I don’t think we would be counted as we do not use the PF world.
I put things like Sneak Attack into the Additional Damage field. If I don't need it on a given attack, then I just ignore those damage dice.
I just create little macros with dropdowns for my damage options.
Even with roll 20 sheet macros you can have an attack generate the sneak attack and weapon damage seperately , or just have on button for sneak attacking one button for not sneak attacking.
If I had a character that had four conditional attack buffs I'd usually make a new attack line for each of them, plus a few that combine these and any common buffs. In PF1 I might have used a dozen attacks just for swinging an ax.
Their frankly pathetic...unwieldy character sheet further make me glad I cancelled my Pro subscription...I keep hearing people rag on the 2e Pathfinder character sheet in Roll20, but I rather like it. What is it about it that people seem to loath so much.
(I recognize that you were likely talking about the 1e sheet.)
Referencing myself:
Everything is a toggleable dropdown to fill in that's also different from the other toggleable dropdown for visibility. If you buy the CRB and APG on there, whoever filled each of those in had incredibly different styles, so consistency (and at the very least, everything to do with any Swashbuckler feats/features) is a mess - feats aren't drag-and-drop like the CRB, etc. All spells decide their traditions for you, so if you're making a caster, enjoy reopening every spell to check that it's the right tradition, or your DCs are going to be incorrect (and also enjoy manually updating your cantrip information every few levels). Critical damage on weapons is completely divorced from the standard damage, so if you change your weapon, make sure to go read through the critical damage section to make sure it functions. It's also incredibly difficult to interact with because of how it's set up, so you generally want to avoid touching the sheet if at all possible, but it's also set up in a way so that you can't figure out the macros easily.
And of course, the notes sections don't do anything, in case you wanted to note something like Evasion or other situational bonuses.
They did add a functional conditions section (after over a year and a half) but I find it incredibly unintuitive and messy, especially in conjunction with the rest of the character sheet.
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Discord has some pretty large communities with a lot of roleplaying going on, the online regions main discord here has well over 6k members from all around the world and runs thousands of games a year, we have a few other lodges of 800-1000 players with around 50% unique memberships.
But if you mean where are the groups who roleplay the most as opposed to rolling & combat focuses, I don't think anywhere will beat the Play by Post lodges both here on Paizo and elsewhere. Their unique format lets people spend way more time and put a lot of thought into the roleplay part of the game, if that's what you're after and you're okay with the slower speed then it's absolutely the best place to find storytelling.
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I've heard that too: that just about everyone who does Pathfinder 2e online uses Foundry over other VTTs.
With the recent difficulty of finding Roll20 groups online lately, I was starting to believe that there had been some sort of mass migration between VTTs. Despite the alleged rise of online roleplay this year, I don't think I've ever seen more than maybe 20 open campaigns on Roll20 for PF2E.
It got me to invest in Foundry. And I've toyed around with it quite a bit too. But in the six months I've had it, I've not been able to either host or play in a single Foundry game.
Best I can figure, it has numerous ready to use fan-made tools--which are broken more often than not due to constant updates and poor coordination (relatively speaking; considering that they are free-working fans, they are actually VERY coordinated--but multiple disparate groups will never match a single paid focus group).
I mean, I run roll20 2e games. I also don't make public postings or recruiting random people since that has been... Disappointing results wise.
You'd think people who join campaigns as players want to play, but lot of random online people don't even show up in the first session :p