Customer Service & Community Manager
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I noted in a couple product discussion threads there has been some discussion about subscriptions, shipping, digital assets, etc. and I wanted to address some of them without derailing those threads further.
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43e1o&page=12?Secrets-of-magic-hype#590
https://paizo.com/products/btq027uy/discuss&page=9?Pathfinder-Secrets-o f-Magic#401
For the last several years, we’ve been in the habit of releasing new products on a monthly basis on the last Wednesday of a month. Depending on where the conventions fall, PaizoCon and Gen Con might throw that off. Additionally, in the fourth quarter, (September to December), release dates are earlier in the month so that we can get products to distribution and subscribers before the winter holidays.
In general, the warehouse begins building pallets and shipping product to distributors about 3.5 weeks before the retail release date. This is so that distributors can receive their products and then turn around and fulfill their retailer level orders in time for the release date. About 3 weeks before the retail release date is when my team typically runs a process that generates orders for subscribers. Typically we try to do this on a Thursday so that we have Friday to address issues, and customers have the weekend to review their order and contact us if something isn’t right. The following Monday my team focuses on questions that have come in regarding subscription orders, and then when we feel confident that all or most have been addressed the warehouse begins shipping out subscriber orders and preorders. Depending on the mix of products involved, it can take 1-2 weeks to package, and process for shipping the pending subscription and preordered new releases. While it’s our goal to have everything that can ship to be processed for shipping before the release date (as that means subscribers will at least have their digital assets), we do occasionally go over our estimated shipping window. While it usually works out that subscribers have their orders processed for shipping and thus their complimentary digital assets prior to the release date, it is not guaranteed.
(In the past we have usually had the most issues with warehouse delays around Gen Con (late July or August) as the Gen Con release is typically the one with the most subscribers getting product, as well as the most products, and a large number of staff from the warehouse or customer service are also prepping or working the convention).
In order for a product to be included in one of our monthly releases, it has be to be in our warehouse in time for us to include it on orders for distributors. If it isn’t in on time for distributors, it won’t get into retail stores with the other new releases, so it gets bumped to the next month. It would be unfair to have a new release (particularly a big one) not go to stores, but still go to subscribers. Doing that would be a great way to make distributors, retailers, and our fans who shop at those retailers really upset with us. We appreciate customers purchasing our products, whether it is directly through us, or via another retailer. No matter where our gaming community shops, we want people to feel confident, supported, and excited about purchases; not regretting their choice of where they shopped.
Within distributors and subscribers, we have a lot of overlap between our RPG brands: Pathfinder and Starfinder; and both brands ship out in monthly releases together. Every month my team (customer service) runs a process that creates subscription orders for customers. This process is not only putting items from various subscription lines into order for folks, it is also building shipments and calculating costs, creating orders which will soon be settling funds on customer payment methods. Its an exciting time for customers who are eagerly anticipating new products, and it is exciting for us too… as well as an intense and sometimes very stressful experience. We take the responsibility of creating orders and charging people’s payment methods very seriously, and it is imperative that we make responsible choices, not just on behalf of for one subscription line or brand, but for all of them; and not just for one subscriber, or only our paizo.com customers, but for distributors and retailers and their customers, too.
Logistically speaking, it does not work to separate our process for new releases by brand or product. When I first started at Paizo a million years ago, we were in a position where we had to ship products as they came into the warehouse, and we could not always wait to group them together, though we tried to offer customers the option to ship things immediately or have them grouped together. This was a logistical nightmare for operations and the fall out from it did everyone (Paizo, distributors, retailers, and customers) a disservice. We have been able to be far more consistent and efficient by have a single release date each month, and overall I have found that consistency is something that helps the most people manage their subscriptions more effectively.
As far as 2020 and 2021 have gone… its been chaotic, uncertain, and deeply frustrating for everyone. Throughout 2020, my team had a backlog of issues in the thousands, and so far almost every release in 2021 has had logistic and timing issues. I cannot stress enough that globally manufacturing, production, and shipping logistics are all having massive issues. Labor shortages, supply shortages, shipping container shortages, port back ups and delays, the problems right now cover the entire supply chain, for all sorts of businesses not just Paizo. These things are all contributing to rising costs and transit times across the board. In addition to that, we’ve been addressing some internal problems with our shipping code, like updating rate tables that were woefully out of date, working on getting new VAT (Value Added Tax) and retail sales tax regulations sorted and implemented. For some folks this means shipping and handling costs will go up due to increased costs and corrected shipping rates, and for a handful of people, shipping and handling might actually go down or stay stable as we have access to new rates or services that we were missing out on before.
The one thing that hasn’t changed is that my team is committed to helping folks sort out their order issues.
I don’t know that I will have a whole lot of time to be able to respond to follow up questions, but if you have general questions, I will do my best to answer what I can. I prefer to be forthcoming and transparent about stuff when and where I can be, so that customers can make informed decisions about where and how they spend their money.
linking to this thread now every time I see someone ask.
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Customer Service is the under dog and super heroes of most organizations. You and your team are fantastic, quick and thorough whenever I have had an issue and it is appreciated.
Can easily say that because of how well your guys handle issues is a large part of what makes me a loyal customer. Knowing that if I have an issue it will be taken seriously by an organization is huge for my repeat business.
When it comes to international shipping right now it is a crap show. Here's hoping you guys get a big dose of understanding when it comes to product delays due to shipping issues. You won't get much gripe from me on that front and at this point in the pandemic I think it is pretty clear that every industry has been hit by resource and shipping issues on some level.
Appreciate this!
You are doing an amazing work. Keep it up and thank you!
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up and explain the whole process. I really hope things get easier over the next couple of months.
I have a really dumb question.
If I placed an order for some random old paizo books and miscellaneous merch now, would that have even a small impact on how quickly this months releases are getting processed and sent out?
I wanted to buy some junk for no good reason, then imagined someone about to process my subscription order having to stop and go find old stock, pack a new box, and put off my PDF access to Secrets of Magic for another day. I somehow paranoided myself into holding off.
Thank you very much for all you do. Whether in person at Gen Con or with online orders your team has always been number one!!!!!
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Customer Service & Community Manager
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I have a really dumb question.
If I placed an order for some random old paizo books and miscellaneous merch now, would that have even a small impact on how quickly this months releases are getting processed and sent out?
I wanted to buy some junk for no good reason, then imagined someone about to process my subscription order having to stop and go find old stock, pack a new box, and put off my PDF access to Secrets of Magic for another day. I somehow paranoided myself into holding off.
I will make a longer post about this when I can, but we try very hard to not penalize people for buying more from us. When we say that we expect subscription orders can all be shipped in 1-2 weeks, that does include orders from folks who have added additional items.
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Is most of the Paizo team still working remotely? Meaning no phone support?
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Not to be a downer here, and I really do appreciate all the work you guys do, but, as an international subscriber, this is really shaping up to be rather a raw deal. While I understand that events have not been in your control and there is not way to change the system at this juncture, however a change is needed for non-US customers.
Currently, with my subscription, I am going to a have a higher cost and worse service experience than it wasn’t a subscriber and purchased products separately through other sources.
For example, Amazon are quoting me the same price for SoM as you guys directly but without a shipping cost. The shipping costs from my SoM update is greater than the cost of just buying a PDF direct from you guys and a physical book from Amazon independently.
Further, my estimated shipping time is set at 9-36 business days. I have seen US customers post their estimates at around 1-20 days. Taking 9 days from when I received my update, that puts me at a high chance of not having produced released until after the street date - as has happened before.
So as an international subscriber, I’m facing a higher cost and a later in-hands, than if I wasn’t a subscriber at all. All for no benefit whatsoever.
We are both losing money on me being a subscriber - at least in this instance.
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Customer Service is the under dog and super heroes of most organizations. You and your team are fantastic, quick and thorough whenever I have had an issue and it is appreciated.
Can easily say that because of how well your guys handle issues is a large part of what makes me a loyal customer. Knowing that if I have an issue it will be taken seriously by an organization is huge for my repeat business.
When it comes to international shipping right now it is a crap show. Here's hoping you guys get a big dose of understanding when it comes to product delays due to shipping issues. You won't get much gripe from me on that front and at this point in the pandemic I think it is pretty clear that every industry has been hit by resource and shipping issues on some level.
I cannot put this better myself, so I'll just say that my sentiments are the exact same.
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For example, Amazon are quoting me the same price for SoM as you guys directly but without a shipping cost. The shipping costs from my SoM update is greater than the cost of just buying a PDF direct from you guys and a physical book from Amazon independently.
Don't trust anything on Amazon. The books to to Paizo first, so Amazon won't get them any sooner than any other distributor. I stared subscribing because even the preorders from amazon might take weeks longer to appear than just going to you local book store.
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Not to be a downer here, and I really do appreciate all the work you guys do, but, as an international subscriber, this is really shaping up to be rather a raw deal. While I understand that events have not been in your control and there is not way to change the system at this juncture, however a change is needed for non-US customers.
Currently, with my subscription, I am going to a have a higher cost and worse service experience than it wasn’t a subscriber and purchased products separately through other sources.
For example, Amazon are quoting me the same price for SoM as you guys directly but without a shipping cost. The shipping costs from my SoM update is greater than the cost of just buying a PDF direct from you guys and a physical book from Amazon independently.
Further, my estimated shipping time is set at 9-36 business days. I have seen US customers post their estimates at around 1-20 days. Taking 9 days from when I received my update, that puts me at a high chance of not having produced released until after the street date - as has happened before.
So as an international subscriber, I’m facing a higher cost and a later in-hands, than if I wasn’t a subscriber at all. All for no benefit whatsoever.
We are both losing money on me being a subscriber - at least in this instance.
I'll jump in here because your issues are not really with Customer Service, but with the structure of our subscription program and global logistics. We hear you, we don't have an immediate solution, and, as much as we want to increase the total number of subscriptions because of that reliable cash flow, you might be better off buying locally. Our subscriptions are not for everyone. We know this. At least not until we create some sort of international work-around to have a hub in your area, wherever that might be. And even if we make it work in say the EU, it might not work in Britain, Australia or elsewhere. Simply, our subs are best for North Americans.
Sara said it very well. "No matter where our gaming community shops, we want people to feel confident, supported, and excited about purchases; not regretting their choice of where they shopped." We want a happy customer more than we want a subscriber.
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Is most of the Paizo team still working remotely? Meaning no phone support?
Yes.
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Not to be a downer here, and I really do appreciate all the work you guys do, but, as an international subscriber, this is really shaping up to be rather a raw deal. While I understand that events have not been in your control and there is not way to change the system at this juncture, however a change is needed for non-US customers.
Currently, with my subscription, I am going to a have a higher cost and worse service experience than it wasn’t a subscriber and purchased products separately through other sources.
For example, Amazon are quoting me the same price for SoM as you guys directly but without a shipping cost. The shipping costs from my SoM update is greater than the cost of just buying a PDF direct from you guys and a physical book from Amazon independently.
Further, my estimated shipping time is set at 9-36 business days. I have seen US customers post their estimates at around 1-20 days. Taking 9 days from when I received my update, that puts me at a high chance of not having produced released until after the street date - as has happened before.
So as an international subscriber, I’m facing a higher cost and a later in-hands, than if I wasn’t a subscriber at all. All for no benefit whatsoever.
We are both losing money on me being a subscriber - at least in this instance.
I'll jump in here because your issues are not really with Customer Service, but with the structure of our subscription program and global logistics. We hear you, we don't have an immediate solution, and, as much as we want to increase the total number of subscriptions because of that reliable cash flow, you might be better off buying locally. Our subscriptions are not for everyone. We know this. At least not until we create some sort of international work-around to have a hub in your area, wherever that might be. And even if we make it work in say the EU, it might not work in Britain, Australia or elsewhere. Simply, our subs are best for North Americans.
Sara said it very...
I hear you, I really do. And, as I said, I understand there is nothing to be done at this point. However implore you guys to just end your US-centric practices.
There are many possible solutions to the issue that already exist without driving up costs on your end. The first step is to realise it’s not all about physical product anymore. As a non-US customer I am used to excessive and penalising shipping times and costs from the US, it’s a fact of life. Placing me as a second class customer for digital products however, simply never needs to happen.
A first step would be to separate out digital fulfilment from physical fulfilment on the costumer level. As soon as the first physical product is shipped to a subscriber, this should unlock digital fulfilment for all subscribers.
A second step would be to simply stop your “soonest first” shipping strategy. This one is much easier said than done and does depend heavily on how much control you guys actually have over your warehouse operations. However, my company, for instance, we employ a mixed model where “furthest first” and “soonest first” are done side by side by a slip team, and so narrows the band of possible dates for in-hands to the customers.
Another possible option is a “donate” feature. Where by some method I could donate my copy of the physical book to some US based underprivileged gaming society, or added as inventory for something like a humble bundle, but with the condition that I get digital fulfilment at the US rate than my own.
What I’m saying is that options are there, and don’t have to come with increased costs on your end. Having a business model that only really serves North America isn’t in-keeping with your own company values at this point either.
On a personal note: I hate being relegated to being a second class customer when my money is as good as anyone else’s. In many circumstances I am happy to accept this as an unfortunate fact of life. However, digital fulfilment is simply not one of those circumstances. Cards on the table, I have no problems paying a substantially higher price than US customers, just as long as I can get the same level of service for it. Having a higher price and a worse service… there is no remedy which can make me happy while US customers have preferential treatment.
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Being a Europe-based subscriber, I don't get Old_Man_Robot. I never felt like I was a "second class customer" at Paizo.
The subscription costs the same for me as it does for any US-citizen.
The shipping&handling costs for that subscription are different, but Paizo being a US based company, that's to be expected.
Sometimes my shipments are among the first being handled, sometimes they are at the end of the line. Most of the times, if there aren't any unusual circumstances (like Gen-Con release or such), I have access to the PDF before 'street date'.
Paizo has 76 employees (as of July 2021, if my google-fu can be trusted). That's not a multinational corporation. I'm sure they are looking at ways to distribute their products as best they can within financial constrains.
I too am at a point where I look if getting my books by subscription is still the best option for me.
Buying the PDF's here and the books at my FLGS is the other option, but at the same time, it is more demanding on my time: I have to put the PDF's in my shopping cart here, once they are released. I have to go to my FLGS and pick up the books, once they have them in store.
For me that is tedious and error-prone. (I did and do own some books multiple times, because I thought I didn't buy them before, only to find out I already have them on the shelf.)
So, simply for convenience, I kept my subscriptions up for so long. Because of said convenience, Paizo isn't getting more money from me: If I had canceled my subscriptions before covid, I would have payed them for the PDF's directly, and Paizo would have got money for the books sold through distribution.
Now, with the move to digital play, I'm not sure I'm going to have much use for physical books going forward.
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Thanks for your input. We hear you. We have a new Vice President of Sales and E-Commerce and I'm excited to see what innovations he can bring to Paizo. Adventures Ahead.
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Another possible option is a “donate” feature. Where by some method I could donate my copy of the physical book to some US based underprivileged gaming society, or added as inventory for something like a humble bundle, but with the condition that I get digital fulfilment at the US rate than my own.
I like the idea of a donate option, though, and the fact that you would like your physical copies to someone more needing reflects well on you. That said, it also undermines much of your point.
Why not just buy the PDF at street date? If donating the physical copy is a "solution" then this all boils down to street date. Frankly, the "fairest" thing for Paizo to do would be to release access to PDFs to everyone on the street date - which they sometimes do, mostly for GenCon releases.
As someone who is usually (but not always) fortunate enough to get earlier shipping than street date, that'd be a net negative for me. But it also wouldn't impact my choice to subscribe, because subscribing makes sense for me largely regardless of timeline. It definitely feels bad to get access to my PDF later than street date on a highly-anticipated book, though. It's happened to me. I don't begrudge the people who happened to luck out on the shipping lottery, though.
Would you prefer if Paizo stopped granting early access to PDFs for everyone when their order shipped? That's potentially useful feedback for them, but also doesn't accomplish earlier access for you. It only hurts other subscribers.
But to your stated goals:
If all I wanted, 100%, was the digital copy - I'd pick it up by itself at or after street date. I do that for Starfinder rulebooks. It's slightly more inconvenient that I have to log in and make the purchase, but frankly I have to do a bunch of that to download it anyway, so it's not much more of a hassle.
If all I wanted was the earliest possible access to the digital asset, regardless of the cost: I'd accept that it's largely out of my control. If I lived somewhere that typically shipped earlier, I'd subscribe. If I lived somewhere that typically shipped later, I'd buy the PDF at street date.
"Regardless of the cost" is a significant consideration, though, when the physical book+shipping will more than double the cost. Paying a ton for access 0-15 days early (which is about the earliest I've gotten an item, which actually was the physical copy of PF2e at launch because they start shipping even earlier for that launch) doesn't make sense to me. Paying a ton for early access when it's not guaranteed because it's not actually the point of a subscription makes even less sense to me.
Personally, I'm not surprised when international shipping directly from a product supplier is more expensive/a worse experience than buying from a retailer. That's a big part of why retailers exist. I take that into consideration when determining how I buy things, along with other factors like whether I want to pay for the retailer's cut or have it go directly to the supplier.
It sounds like subscriptions aren't a great deal for you, but as much as anything else it sounds like the shipping date is the big issue, and several Paizo folks have replied directly to that concern.
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Honestly, its an interesting dynamic, since I think getting it before street date is, in a practical sense, a major reason that a bunch of people have their sub, official perk or not-- to some extent its fueling demand for the subscription product. I see people talking about wanting a sub for that reason in every new AMA product thread I run over on reddit.
We play online so the free pdf is a good perk for us too, since I still want a physical collection, but there's an aspect of "we really badly want to get our grubby little hands on it ASAP as well."
Of course, I understand that shipping problems can tighten things in such a way that weird stuff happens sometimes, and that it isn't an 'official perk' I've been promised either.
But overall that's why I'm a big proponent of having the charge hit for everyone at once at the beginning of shipping and having the pdfs fire off on a single 'subscriber day' in recognition of the practical realities of why many subscribers actually sub. I know some people have cited legal issues with locking the purchase in before the book actually ships out or something, but I don't think I've seen that from anyone within paizo, so I assumed it was more process related.
But yeah, appreciate all you guys do, take this as consumer feedback on the subscription product and what motivates me to sub, but not as a criticism, being a Paizo subscriber is a great experience both in terms of product and quality of service and if there is some major obstacle preventing adjustment, I don't have any problem with the status quo either.
But overall that's why I'm a big proponent of having the charge hit for everyone at once at the beginning of shipping and having the pdfs fire off on a single 'subscriber day' in recognition of the practical realities of why many subscribers actually sub. I know some people have cited legal issues with locking the purchase in before the book actually ships out or something, but I don't think I've seen that from anyone within paizo, so I assumed it was more process related.
I know depending on where you are they are some legal ramifications for charging for a product before it ships, which may or may not apply here. But if it does then we get into the problem of I get my PDF and cancel my subscription so that I get the PDF for free. That could be a logistical mess.
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And again, as Diego reiterated: early PDFs are not a guarantee of subscribing. Is it often the case that subs get their PDF earlier than street date? Yes. Is it an actual written in benefit of the subscription? No. The benefit is the free PDF, not an early PDF.
_This_. I once got mine after the street date, because order somehow got left behind. Other times, it's been darn close. At the end of the day, it's _nice_ if I get it early, but the real boon is getting both the PDF and the book in one bundle.
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And again, as Diego reiterated: early PDFs are not a guarantee of subscribing. Is it often the case that subs get their PDF earlier than street date? Yes. Is it an actual written in benefit of the subscription? No. The benefit is the free PDF, not an early PDF._This_. I once got mine after the street date, because order somehow got left behind. Other times, it's been darn close. At the end of the day, it's _nice_ if I get it early, but the real boon is getting both the PDF and the book in one bundle.
EXACTLY, I get both for one price and I can read the Pdf till the actual book arrives, regardless of when that is. Its a great perk even if it isnt early.
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And again, as Diego reiterated: early PDFs are not a guarantee of subscribing. Is it often the case that subs get their PDF earlier than street date? Yes. Is it an actual written in benefit of the subscription? No. The benefit is the free PDF, not an early PDF.
I mean, yes that's technically true but I don't think that takes away from The-Magic-Sword's point either. It's clearly something that serves as part of the appeal for the product and the reason some consumers sign up. Paizo might not guarantee it, but it's part of the business model too.