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Heh. I'm not sure two lucky guesses constitutes "a great track record," but alright.
I'll also finally come clean and admit that a reason I was so dead certain there would be an inventor class was because Michael Sayre favorited the post where I first guessed it as a possibility, several months before the GG playtest had been announced.
Personally speaking, given how well received the 4 back to back playtests were, I might be looking to increase that for 2021-22. For a rulebook slated to come out in March-April of next year, which should be when the next rulebook after GG is scheduled, a June-July playtest seems feasible (i.e., right after Paizocon). Which can be followed by a SF playtest, then PF, and so on for the rest of the year, with a 2 month gap starting in July for Gencon prep. So a total of 5-6 playtests, each testing 1-2 classes or big rules element like the mech rules from the Tech Revolution rulebook, overseen by 1-2 developers to spread the load.
As to specifics, I keep looking at the Occultist NPC in Abomination Vaults. That could be just James Jacobs indulging in what he likes most about the system, but his indulgences have some weight behind them given his position. Unicore pointed out how much has gone into fleshing out what Occult means on Golarian, sometimes at the expense of Arcane flavor, so a rulebook focused on Occult monsters, themes, and rules elements seems like a possibility. Maybe even just the Spirit creature type, with Shaman and Mediums being the obvious classes to accompany it.
The other possibility might be something more organization and mass-play oriented, as that seems like a bit of a rules gap at the moment. Fleshing out the Troop creature type, having a class that can summon troops might be interesting, as well as the oft requested Warlord-esque class. Of course, a mass combat playtest would by itself be interesting, though I'd prefer a class be stuck in there too. I thought the Tandem summoner feats had real possibilities in terms of updated Teamwork feats, so that could be cool too.
Edit: I'm starting to think Mythic rules should become a priority after all. There seems to be a real want for Gonzo-level play that could be key to getting more people interesting in PF2.
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Shifter is absolutely at the top of my list. I was so excited back when it was being released for PF1 and then it's actual implementation was such a let down. I understand they'd moved a lot of their design focus to SF/PF2 by that point, but it was still a bit of a punch in the teeth.
A true master of shapeshifting would be an awesome class, especially with how they've streamlined so much of old school wildshaping type abilities do.
I also am probably in the minority here but I would still love to see some version of old-school Book of Nine Rings style classes make it in. I really loved that book and the idea behind maneuver-based martial classes.
Designer
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Heh. I'm not sure two lucky guesses constitutes "a great track record," but alright.
I'll also finally come clean and admit that a reason I was so dead certain there would be an inventor class was because Michael Sayre favorited the post where I first guessed it as a possibility, several months before the GG playtest had been announced.
I'll have you know, sometimes I also favorite guesses that are completely and utterly wrong! I liked your deductive reasoning and attention to detail, though.
The classes I'd most like to see in the future (this is absolutely not a hint or teaser, btw, just the things I personally think would be super cool) :
1) A shaman class. I wouldn't pick up really anything from PF1, though. I'd want to start ground up pulling from real-world lore with an emphasis on the shaman's role as a spirit-speaker in many different real world cultures.
2) An envoy/heir/herald class focused around party coordination and deep social abilities, the kind of class for someone who wants to be defined by charisma and intellect without needing magic and with a very different focus than the investigator.
3) An evolution themed class akin to the shifter but without the heavy wilderness themes. Something with a combination of "constant" evolutions (natural attacks, shield-like carapace sheaths, limbs reshaped to be more efficient at certain tasks, etc.) and reaction-based focus powers, like responding to failing a save against a fireball by instantly evolving fire-resistant skin or changing your unarmed attack from a slashing weapon to a piercing weapon when a foe resists your claws.
4) Runeknight. Like a cross between a wizard and a champion with magus/summoner prepared slots, and all of your prepared spells are effects tied to your gear. Glyph up your equipment during your prep each day for special effects, gain special abilities tied to gear you have unexpended glyphs etched on. Maybe even some cool combo stuff, like dealing 1 point of fire with your sword as long as you have a fireball spell etched on it, then getting e.g. 3 rounds of free flaming rune after casting the fireball. Could probably also do this with a magus class archetype, maybe, but I think there's enough room there to justify a full class's worth of support.
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I'll have you know, sometimes I also favorite guesses that are completely and utterly wrong! I liked your deductive reasoning and attention to detail, though.
:P
4) Runeknight. Like a cross between a wizard and a champion with magus/summoner prepared slots, and all of your prepared spells are effects tied to your gear. Glyph up your equipment during your prep each day for special effects, gain special abilities tied to gear you have unexpended glyphs etched on. Maybe even some cool combo stuff, like dealing 1 point of fire with your sword as long as you have a fireball spell etched on it, then getting e.g. 3 rounds of free flaming rune after casting the fireball. Could probably also do this with a magus class archetype, maybe, but I think there's enough room there to justify a full class's worth of support.
As one of the few fans of Final Fantasy 8, I would definitely dig this. It shares a lot of the same space as the PF1 Occultist too, so expanding on the "empower your items with magic to give yourself power" could be fun.
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I had posted in another thread about a runemaster archetype, one that could use magic to overcharge runes, make temporary ones, etc. So add that to what that class might do!
I have sort of dismissed shifter as being a class coming soon as it was the most recent book for 1e and I heard it wasn't well liked. But I do like the concept (especially adaptive shifter) and making it not only nature focused would make it even cooler.
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Actually... yeah, now that I think about I'm blown away by the fact that the purple Golem hasn't doubled down on their most successful series to date with a dedicated Class... the Runelord.
It practically writes itself, all of the abilities and flavor are practically done and it actually makes real SENSE given that the previous Runelords were squashed into the dirt twice now and had most of their secrets uncovered for the world to see.
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Isn't secrets of magic coming with Rune magic? That might be a good place to mine ideas as well.
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A blood mage of some sort. Imo, I'd probably handle a class like this as a focus spell and metamagic focused class that lets you inflict conditions enfeebled, drained, or persistent bleed on yourself to augment your magic. While I thought the bloatmages from 1e were kinda neat, I hope this archetype won't be forced into that flavor.
A blood mage could be awesome. I picture a class that initiates combat by nicking themself with a dagger to fuel their first spell, which gets the enemy bleeding (animating the dagger would be one way of doing that) to fuel yet more spells to turn blood to acid or animate tendrils of blood or call down a rain of boiling blood or chill the blood of your foes (enfeebling / slowing them), etc. Their base attacks would start a bleed on foes, so as to fuel their magic, so that, as long as a foe is bleeding within 30 ft. or so, they don't have to use their own blood (represented by hp sacrifice and a wasted action to cut themselves, at lower level, although at higher level they can 'spend' blood without cutting themselves) to fuel their spells.
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Ooh, I would *definitely* play a Runeknight. That sounds very cool.
Well the Inventor in Guns and Gears is basically supposed to fulfill the same fantasy as the Artificer. Even has an option for a robot companion.I mean, yes and no. If you squint hard enough, they both have the "does stuff with things" niche, but there are many differences. The most obvious is that the Inventor is tech, while the Artificer is magic. The artificer is a proper caster that maxed out at 6th level spells in 3.5e and 5th level in 5e.
I do keep semi-seriously hoping for a primal caster that is built around crafting and a lot of the same stuff as the inventor. Not least because the mental image of a mad scientist with druid spells makes me giggle.
A class archetype along those lines might be interesting, depending on how the Inventor itself turns out.
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I like that mental image a lot. I'm reminded that 3.5 had a class that cast divine spells but studied them like a wizard with a spellbook and Int-casting. I always really liked the idea of approaching an existing discipline from a different angle in the same way sorcerers and wizards approach arcane magic in really different ways.
I guess a primal witch has a sort of similar vibe to what I mentioned but not quite.
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Heh. I'm not sure two lucky guesses constitutes "a great track record," but alright.
I'll also finally come clean and admit that a reason I was so dead certain there would be an inventor class was because Michael Sayre favorited the post where I first guessed it as a possibility, several months before the GG playtest had been announced.
I'll have you know, sometimes I also favorite guesses that are completely and utterly wrong! I liked your deductive reasoning and attention to detail, though.
The classes I'd most like to see in the future (this is absolutely not a hint or teaser, btw, just the things I personally think would be super cool) :
1) A shaman class. I wouldn't pick up really anything from PF1, though. I'd want to start ground up pulling from real-world lore with an emphasis on the shaman's role as a spirit-speaker in many different real world cultures.
2) An envoy/heir/herald class focused around party coordination and deep social abilities, the kind of class for someone who wants to be defined by charisma and intellect without needing magic and with a very different focus than the investigator.
3) An evolution themed class akin to the shifter but without the heavy wilderness themes. Something with a combination of "constant" evolutions (natural attacks, shield-like carapace sheaths, limbs reshaped to be more efficient at certain tasks, etc.) and reaction-based focus powers, like responding to failing a save against a fireball by instantly evolving fire-resistant skin or changing your unarmed attack from a slashing weapon to a piercing weapon when a foe resists your claws.
4) Runeknight. Like a cross between a wizard and a champion with magus/summoner prepared slots, and all of your prepared spells are effects tied to your gear. Glyph up your equipment during your prep each day for special effects, gain special abilities tied to gear you have unexpended glyphs etched on. Maybe even...
All sounds great. Number 4 has me swooning though
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Heh. I'm not sure two lucky guesses constitutes "a great track record," but alright.
I'll also finally come clean and admit that a reason I was so dead certain there would be an inventor class was because Michael Sayre favorited the post where I first guessed it as a possibility, several months before the GG playtest had been announced.
I'll have you know, sometimes I also favorite guesses that are completely and utterly wrong! I liked your deductive reasoning and attention to detail, though.
The classes I'd most like to see in the future (this is absolutely not a hint or teaser, btw, just the things I personally think would be super cool) :
1) A shaman class. I wouldn't pick up really anything from PF1, though. I'd want to start ground up pulling from real-world lore with an emphasis on the shaman's role as a spirit-speaker in many different real world cultures.
2) An envoy/heir/herald class focused around party coordination and deep social abilities, the kind of class for someone who wants to be defined by charisma and intellect without needing magic and with a very different focus than the investigator.
3) An evolution themed class akin to the shifter but without the heavy wilderness themes. Something with a combination of "constant" evolutions (natural attacks, shield-like carapace sheaths, limbs reshaped to be more efficient at certain tasks, etc.) and reaction-based focus powers, like responding to failing a save against a fireball by instantly evolving fire-resistant skin or changing your unarmed attack from a slashing weapon to a piercing weapon when a foe resists your claws.
4) Runeknight. Like a cross between a wizard and a champion with magus/summoner prepared slots, and all of your prepared spells are effects tied to your gear. Glyph up your equipment during your prep each day for special effects, gain special abilities tied to gear you have unexpended glyphs etched on. Maybe even...
I really like those, especially the first three, number four is cool too but I feel like its too close to the Magus conceptually, and agree it would probably fit in well as a class archetype of Magus-- after all the Magus is meant to conceptually cover the ground of warrior/wizard who integrates magic directly into their weapon fighting. A suite of feats allowing you to apply extra magic effects to gear sounds like it could work well.
The Shaman concept is interesting, but to fit a variety of real world traditions I'd feel like it would have to be another mult-tradition caster-- Primal and Occult at least and Divine sort of fits too, I'm unsure about Arcane. Which I think could work well if it was specifically Wisdom based-- since the Sorcerer is Charisma, and the Witch is Intelligence.
Another thing to maybe think about is a book more focused on skills. We really haven't gotten that many yet (maybe that's the intent, could be paizo is trying not to overwhelm players with options but I hope not) and it could dovetail well with some classes too. Something like ultimate intrigue. Not too many first edition classes left are very skill focused, as far as I know, but new ones could be.
The potential danger I see with a class like that described herald is that right now skills are kind of class agnostic. Even classes like the Rogue and Investigator only get more skills, rather than strictly getting unique upgrades (though the forensic medicine investigator kind of does).
The outwit ranger can get some huge skill bonuses, but does so at a pretty meaningful cost.
I guess part of me is just vaguely worried that allowing certain classes to 'own' certain types of skill checks sends us in the wrong direction in terms of skill flexibility.
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A Charisma-based character who isn’t a caster sounds delightful. I would be all over a PF2 Envoy.
Also, I’m stunned we haven’t seen rumblings for Inquisitor yet - the Iconic is the most iconic of the bunch!
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The potential danger I see with a class like that described herald is that right now skills are kind of class agnostic. Even classes like the Rogue and Investigator only get more skills, rather than strictly getting unique upgrades (though the forensic medicine investigator kind of does).
The outwit ranger can get some huge skill bonuses, but does so at a pretty meaningful cost.
I guess part of me is just vaguely worried that allowing certain classes to 'own' certain types of skill checks sends us in the wrong direction in terms of skill flexibility.
I think you may have forgotten about the Swashbuckler here
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I’d love to see a wis based pick your tradition caster (analogous to the sorc and witch). Shaman or medium could definitely be worked to fit that I think.
My absolute favorite concept from 1e was the fiend keeper medium, so I’m patiently waiting for a way to build that again.
Count me in as excited about the possibilities for Shifter, Herald, Warlord and Shaman, plus fun rune stuff in whatever forms it comes in. :3
Even classes like the Rogue and Investigator only get more skills, rather than strictly getting unique upgrades
As a bit of trivia, Rogues have a good number of class feats with high skill requirements that kinda function as exclusive, slightly flavored skill feats. Neat thing I didn't realize about it until recently.
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I’d love to see a wis based pick your tradition caster (analogous to the sorc and witch). Shaman or medium could definitely be worked to fit that I think.
My absolute favorite concept from 1e was the fiend keeper medium, so I’m patiently waiting for a way to build that again.
I know a few folks are hoping for Fiend Keeper as an Archetype in the Mwangi book, given that it has playable Grippli.
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Another thing to maybe think about is a book more focused on skills. We really haven't gotten that many yet (maybe that's the intent, could be paizo is trying not to overwhelm players with options but I hope not) and it could dovetail well with some classes too. Something like ultimate intrigue. Not too many first edition classes left are very skill focused, as far as I know, but new ones could be.
Thr skill system could be a real strength for 2E, if it gets developed. New skill actions would be great, but they need to be available to everyone and not Feat gated. I loved Occult Skill Unlocks in 1E and something similar with easier/free access could really beef up that part of the game, maybe even merit a whole book.
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I want some form of the Spellthief back, but in a capacity where they can steal abilities instead of just spells and "mirror" their opponents and allies.So, a Blue Mage?
I'm interested. The free-wheeling nature of PF2 npcs could make it...interesting, but I think the madness can be contained if you have set abilities that the class unlocks, but you could also get a focus spell that borrowed enemy abilities, including spells, for a round or minute (as appropriate).
I think 30-40 bestiary abilities can easily be converted to Feat format as your default powers that you select. Though having typed that out, I just remembered I disliked the summoner playtest for doing that, so maybe not. It's a way to do it in any case.
I’ve tried to homebrew one but its difficult - many bestiary abilities aren’t similar enough to make the concept work. I ended up with 6 abilities - Natural Attack, Engulf, Change Shape, Breath Weapon, Fate Manipulation (a stand in for fortune/misfortune effects) and another that I can’t exactly remember off the top of my head before I just ran out of stuff.
The basic idea of the class was a pure focus caster - all of the above were focus cantrips that you could spend a focus point on to make them better. They had a base effect, but you could dissect monsters you defeated who had an ability that matched certain criteria to learn their ability, modifying your own ability in some ways to be similar to theirs. E.g. breath weapon let you study any breath ability that affected an area and did damage, and you could change the range, area and damage type of your breath weapon to that of any creature you studied with it.
The basic idea of the class was a pure focus caster - all of the above were focus cantrips that you could spend a focus point on to make them better. They had a base effect, but you could dissect monsters you defeated who had an ability that matched certain criteria to learn their ability, modifying your own ability in some ways to be similar to theirs. E.g. breath weapon let you study any breath ability that affected an area and did damage, and you could change the range, area and damage type of your breath weapon to that of any creature you studied with it.
That's not a bad place to start honestly.
If it incorporated some kind of melee/skill aspect to it then you might be able to justify a little more juice on the abilities instead of having to go Focus point casting constantly.
Perhaps even tying it to the Flat-footed condition, where a Strike on that Creature grants you the theft.
I think the idea would have to be auctioned off to one ability per type of creature:
- Dragon - Breath Weapon/Element Damage
- Incorporeal - Ethereal
- Undead - Negative Damage
- Plant - Tremorsense
- Elemental - Element Damage
etc.
And then potentially have them have a way to "hold" the specific thing in question, since most of the things you would "steal" from, it won't be that useful against.
The default case, you could just make it add damage based on the creature, potentially giving them a Focus power to "invert" the damage (Negative becomes Positive, Fire becomes Ice, Electric becomes Physical?)
Idk spitballing.
Stealing an ability would be like one of the "premium" portions of the Class, but a baseline theft that's something basic like "damage" or "If the target has a higher Reflex DC than yourself, you gain a +X circumstance bonus to your Reflex Saves and DCs".
Lots of ways to explore it outside of trying to center the entire class around the thing that's hardest to balance as a center piece. Stealing of the actual abilities should be nearly once per day, stealing general characteristics/powers might be the way to make it work on the baseline.
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The basic idea of the class was a pure focus caster - all of the above were focus cantrips that you could spend a focus point on to make them better. They had a base effect, but you could dissect monsters you defeated who had an ability that matched certain criteria to learn their ability, modifying your own ability in some ways to be similar to theirs. E.g. breath weapon let you study any breath ability that affected an area and did damage, and you could change the range, area and damage type of your breath weapon to that of any creature you studied with it.That's not a bad place to start honestly.
If it incorporated some kind of melee/skill aspect to it then you might be able to justify a little more juice on the abilities instead of having to go Focus point casting constantly.
Perhaps even tying it to the Flat-footed condition, where a Strike on that Creature grants you the theft.
I think the idea would have to be auctioned off to one ability per type of creature:
- Dragon - Breath Weapon/Element Damage
- Incorporeal - Ethereal
- Undead - Negative Damage
- Plant - Tremorsense
- Elemental - Element Damageetc.
And then potentially have them have a way to "hold" the specific thing in question, since most of the things you would "steal" from, it won't be that useful against.
The default case, you could just make it add damage based on the creature, potentially giving them a Focus power to "invert" the damage (Negative becomes Positive, Fire becomes Ice, Electric becomes Physical?)
Idk spitballing.
Stealing an ability would be like one of the "premium" portions of the Class, but a baseline theft that's something basic like "damage" or "If the target has a higher Reflex DC than yourself, you gain a +X circumstance bonus to your Reflex Saves and DCs".
Lots of ways to explore it outside of trying to center the entire class around the thing that's hardest to balance as a center piece. Stealing of the actual abilities should be nearly once per...
Doesn't quite work with the design I have currently, lemme show you some examples
# Breath Weapon
## Cantrip 1
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;Uncommon, Arcane, Force, Evocation
**Cast**: :aa: (Somatic, Verbal)**Area**: 15-foot cone
**Saving throw**: Basic reflex
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You breathe in sharply, and exhale a cone of magical energy, dealing 1d6+your key ability modifier as force damage to each creature in the area.-
**Focusable**: Double the damage.**Heightened (+1)**: Increase the damage by 1d6.
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**Blue Magic**This focus cantrip lets you record monster abilities with "Breath" in the name provided they affect an area and deal damage. For instance, you could record a Flame Drake's "Fireball Breath", a Vavkia's "Soulfire Breath" or a Young Red Dragon's "Breath Weapon"
When you use Breath Weapon, you may change its area, range, traits and damage type (if the ability has multiple damage types, you choose which one to use - you cannot choose persistent damage) to the same as a monster ability you have recorded with Breath Weapon. For instance, if you recorded a Flame Drake's "Fireball Breath", you could change this ability to have an Area of 20-foot burst, a range of 180ft, deal fire damage and its traits would become [arcane], [evocation] and [fire].
# Natural Attack
## Cantrip 1
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;Uncommon, Arcane, Transmutation, Morph, Attack
**Cast**: :a: (Verbal)-
You alter your body, growing an additional appendage for just enough time to make a vicious attack. You gain an additional unarmed attack - it deals 1d10 bludgeoning damage and has the brawling and unarmed traits. You may choose whether it does lethal or nonlethal damage. Immediately make a spell attack roll with this unarmed attack against a creature within range of it. On a success, you deal damage as if you had hit the creature with a melee strike, and on a critical success you deal damage as if you had critically hit the creature with a melee strike. Add your key ability modifier instead of your strength modifier to the damage. Regardless of the result, you lose this unarmed attack immediately afterwards.-
**Focusable**: If you chose to use a monster's unarmed attack instead, you may add any additional effects of that unarmed attack (Grab, Knockdown, Drain Life, etc.).-
**Blue Magic**This focus cantrip lets you record monster abilities named one of the following - "Jaws", "Claw", "Tail", "Tentacle", "Fist" or "Wing".
When you use Natural Attack, you may change the damage type to the type of one of the monster abilities you have recorded with Natural Attack. If you do, the unarmed attack also gains the traits of that ability.
And to that extent, it's kind of difficult to find abilities that I can say "There's this subset of monsters that have an ability similar to this, which I can use as the basis for one these powers". My most recent one was stretching it a bit.
# Control Fate
## Cantrip 2
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;Uncommon, Arcane
**Cast**: :aa: (Somatic, Verbal)**Range**: 30 feet; **Targets**: 1 creature.
**Saving Throw**: Will; **Duration**: 1 round
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Bending the future to your will, you discard events that are disfavourable to you. If the target fails the save, then once, during the duration, after the target rolls a non-secret check you can cause the target to roll that check again. If you use this on an ally or yourself, it gains the Fortune trait. If you use this on an enemy, it gains the Misfortune trait.A willing creature can choose to fail the save automatically.
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**Focusable**: See below.-
**Blue Magic**This focus cantrip lets you record monster abilities that have the Fortune or Misfortune trait.
If you spend a focus point on this ability, then its action cost changes to the action cost of an ability you recorded with Control Fate, and its effect is change to that ability's effect. If the ability has a trigger, Control Fate also gains that trigger. If the ability does not have an action cost, then Control Fate still takes 2 actions to cast, however the effect of the ability lasts only 1 round. If the ability is an aura, it affects only creatures you choose within range of the aura, and affected creatures can attempt a will saving throw against your spell DC to negate the effects of the aura on themselves. Control Fate's traits change to the traits of the chosen ability. If the ability requires a saving throw or has a DC, use your spell DC. If the ability requires a check, use your spell attack modifier.
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I really like the idea of a monster/shifter class, as I have at least two character concepts that I want to try one day:
1) A strapping you dragon lad out for some adventure and generally to see the world. Maybe a full party of them, going on a "school trip" XD. An odd sort of coming of age story.
2) A character who is a devil or at least can transform into one. I'm thinking of the "went to hell after his death, decided it wasn't that great there and so he left" route. Whether it is a redemption story or something else will depend on the campaign.
For completely new classes, I have a couple of ideas, but none of them are particularly good or well developed.
a) A "language of the gods" theme class. A pseudo-caster that can rewrite reality by just speaking and/or writing words.
b) The Justicar and Chaos Spawn, classes focused around enforcing law and order and chaos, respectively. Probably more appropriate for a archetypes or class archetypes for champion/inquisitor, though.
c) A counter-attacker. Focused on reactions with tons of stuff like the rogues preparation feat, parrying and generally messing with the enemies' plans.
examples
Hmmm, maybe a more apropos way to handle it would be to absorb certain traits and then rechannel those:
AKA your control fate example would be suped-up when you have performed a theft against a creature with the Misfortune or Fortune traits.
Almost like stealing the essence of the powers themselves and then rechanneling them into a power.
Fire, Ice, Electric can be rechanneled into a Line, Burst, or Emanation (potentially a choice at selection).
Not sure how to do natural attacks.. that kinda goes away from the original concept I had in mind and more makes them a "morph" style champion in a sense, which I would really see the Shifter in that space.
I was more thinking things like Senses, non-physical Movement, Powers/Abilities, Spells, etc.
Physical stuff gets pretty hard to explain in the concept of essence theft, not to say it can't be explored, just sort of isn't what I was hoping for in the "blue mage"/"spellthief"/"sandman"
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a) A "language of the gods" theme class. A pseudo-caster that can rewrite reality by just speaking and/or writing words.
Yeah, something based on the Egyptian-esque concept of magic involving learning the 'true names' of things and being able to manipulate them through that would be neat.
The word-based magic of Ars Magica kind of touched on that. A wizard could learn the word for Fire, and then words to modify Fire, like Create and Shape and Destroy, allowing them to make, manipulate or quench fires. But that same wizard wouldn't necessarily know the words for Water or Plants or Life, and have no spell effects related to those materials (or have them at much lower 'levels' of proficiency, and be able to only 'Create' a cup full of water, while being able to 'Create' massive bonfires and conflagrations).
The problem would be to make the verbs linked to the nouns, so that if the caster pumped lots of training into Create, they aren't just arbitrarily good at Creating *everything* they learn the noun for, so that someone can be good at Creating Fire, but not necessarily all that great at Creating Iron or Air or whatever.
I can't be the only one thinking that sounds a lot like the Thu'um/Shouts from Skyrim (and is delighted).
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Skyrim shouts are an example of the much-older-than-Skyrim trope of words of power, so yes.
Well, we'll see if there's anything resembling the Words of Power system in Secrets of Magic. Seems like a logical place for a PF2 update to that subsystem.
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Well, we'll see if there's anything resembling the Words of Power system in Secrets of Magic. Seems like a logical place for a PF2 update to that subsystem.
I really hope subsystems aren't a fire-and-forget thing this edition, I'd much rather have fewer systems that keep getting support than a lot of underdeveloped one offs.
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- A fighter/alchemist hybrid class for bomb-throwers. Call it the grenadier or something. I want something with perpetual bombs that can compete with martials in raw combat ability, and I'll happily give up the entire rest of the recipe book to get it. Possibly offer viable builds for bomb/melee and bomb/firearm alongside the classic bomb/bomb. Like... a one-action activity that lets you reload the gun you have in one hand while you prepare a perpetual bomb in the other?
- A barbarian/alchemist hybrid class for mutation warriors. If the thing you want to do with your day is chug moderately concerning substances and turn into a literal combat monster, you should be able to do that thing... and the barbarian seems like an obvious other half to that hybrid for its "this is my combat state. Most of my combat powers depend on it" schtick. In this case, the combat state would be "is affected by a mutagen" rather than "is in a rage" but it crosses over pretty readily. Again, it happily discards every part of the recipe book that is not about mutagens in favor of Moar Smash. Depending on how shifter comes out, I suppose that the mutagen warrior might be a reasonable variant of that, too.
- The Host. Invites symbiotes to share their skin, or hide in their soul, or whatever. The various symbiotes grant various powers/abilities/upgrades, and you can mix and match, but you're limited by total capacity. As you increase in level, your capacity increases, allowing you to accept more symbiotes and/or allow your existing symbiotes to grow and become stronger (and thus grant improved benefits). Possibly some/all of the symbiotes would have downsides to go with the upsides as well, but they'd be manageable - more like an a la carte version of the Champion Tenets or a small reduction in permanent HP than anything that would be seriously disruptive to game. Lets you play those "living hive" ninja types.
- A cantrip/focus-based magic class.
Gunslinger seemed like it was tinkering with the idea of optionally being a bomber without the other Alchemist stuff tied to that. They'd have to expand further for that to actually satisfy the idea but it's a good direction to go I think.
- The Host. Invites symbiotes to share their skin, or hide in their soul, or whatever. The various symbiotes grant various powers/abilities/upgrades, and you can mix and match, but you're limited by total capacity. As you increase in level, your capacity increases, allowing you to accept more symbiotes and/or allow your existing symbiotes to grow and become stronger (and thus grant improved benefits). Possibly some/all of the symbiotes would have downsides to go with the upsides as well, but they'd be manageable - more like an a la carte version of the Champion Tenets or a small reduction in permanent HP than anything that would be seriously disruptive to game. Lets you play those "living hive" ninja types.
When we get the Synthesist Class Archetype for the Summoner, it should cover this niche quite nicely.
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When we get the Synthesist Class Archetype for the Summoner, it should cover this niche quite nicely.
- The Host. Invites symbiotes to share their skin, or hide in their soul, or whatever. The various symbiotes grant various powers/abilities/upgrades, and you can mix and match, but you're limited by total capacity. As you increase in level, your capacity increases, allowing you to accept more symbiotes and/or allow your existing symbiotes to grow and become stronger (and thus grant improved benefits). Possibly some/all of the symbiotes would have downsides to go with the upsides as well, but they'd be manageable - more like an a la carte version of the Champion Tenets or a small reduction in permanent HP than anything that would be seriously disruptive to game. Lets you play those "living hive" ninja types.
Hmmm...
I can see it, I suppose. At least, the potential is there.
For my own selfish reasons, I'd want it to be something where you have to opt into and buy the spellcasting ability by getting it through upgrades, rather than having it be something that's baked into the base of the class, but I could certainly see ways they could tweak the synthesist to make it happen... especially if they had a variant that was *always* synthesized, or at least designed the class so that that was a viable playstyle.
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as a class...not a prestige class.
Name to long?
Shorten it to Warlock.
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MYSTIC THEURGE
as a class...not a prestige class.
Name to long?
Shorten it to Warlock.
Those two are very, very different things. Please do not conflate them. Also, "Warlock" is in the bit of 3.x that *wasn't* under the OGL. Paizo has all sorts of good legal reasons to not want to open *that* can of worms.
So... what would Mystic Theurge even be as a base class? "I can draw my spells from two different lists"? That seems like a pretty significant power (or at least flexibility) upgrade to the caster core. What would you offer to sacrifice to make that balanced?
Warlock was also already a PF1 archetype with a very different focus. That would not be a terrible name for the weapon summoning class/archetype many have wanted to see to keep true to the pathfinder version.
Even better if the item was intelligent.
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What would you offer to sacrifice to make that balanced?
It wasn't my idea but a Spellcaster with baseline Wizard Weapon/Armor Training, the Perception and Saves of a Cleric, and prepared Spells from a Theurgist Tome (A Spellbook for Arcane AND Divine Spells) using the same slot advancement system as a Wizard might be a good starting point.
Give them a Class-Path at level 1 with three choices: Arcane Focus, Divine Focus, or Balance and offer one extra Spell Slot of every level for their choice of Focus, or if they choose Balance they instead gain BOTH the Wizard or Cleric Archetype Dedication Feat without needing to meet any pre-requisites or needing to fulfill the Special (Take two from this or ELSE) in order to take further Archetypes.
I dunno, just throwing darts.
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I kinda feel like of all the prestige class/multiclass concepts in PF1 the Mystic Theurge is the one that's already very well satisfied by PF2 archetypes. You can play a hybrid Wizard/Cleric (perhaps Oracle/Sorcerer for the optimizers in the building). The cops won't stop you.
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A big part of the mystic theurge's concept though was blending arcane and divine elements together, theoretically in a co-equal fashion to some degree.
A level 10 wizard who has one third level cleric spell slot doesn't really feel like it encapsulates that very well.
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A big part of the mystic theurge's concept though was blending arcane and divine elements together, theoretically in a co-equal fashion to some degree.
A level 10 wizard who has one third level cleric spell slot doesn't really feel like it encapsulates that very well.
A Wizard with Cleric archetype (or vice versa) can have access to 10th level spells in his primary class and 8th level spells in his secondary class. That is actually better than what a PF1 Mystic Theurge can get.