Lost Omens: Ancestry Guide and what we know about.

[Kyrone]

Just a thread to put the information that we know about the book.

Have 6 new ancestries:

Fleshwarp
Kitsune
Sprite
Strix
Fetchling
Android

And 8 Versatile Heritages
Undine
Sylph
Suli
Oread
Ifrit
Ganzi
Aphorite
???

The book will be about 50/50 mechanics and lore and will have more ancestral weapons as well.

Fleshwarp apparently have a feat to grow a new appendage like a scorpion tail per example.

Kitsune is able to transform between forms at will from lvl 1, and have a heritage to transform in a normal fox instead of an anthropomorphic one and the tailed feats.

Android feats have very futuristic names.

Sprites have 0ft Reach and will need to enter the enemy space to Strike, Pixies are a heritage that is small instead of tiny. Also bat sprites there as well.

The genie is 5 separate heritages but they will have feats that they share, likely some kind of trait that means that any of the Genie heritages can pick it.

Aasimar will gain 3 new lineages, one of them is emberkin.

Strix can't fly from lvl 1 by default, but will have a rule that let them with GM permission.

[The Raven Black]

I predicted the Strix :-)

I and others believe the 8th Versatile Heritage will be Werefolk (or whatever name they choose to replace the ill-advised PF1 name).

[Salamileg]

I'm very happy about the inclusion of Strix. They always interested me as someone who didn't play PF1.

[Kekkres]

My money is on mortics as our last heratige. Though there really arent a ton of heratagable options from pf1 left.

[Mewzard]

Don't forget Aaron Shanks confirmed the Azarketi (Gillmen) will be a part of the Ancestry Guide in the comments section for the book.

Well, technically, additional content for the Azarketi. We'll get a free PDF released around the time of the book for their default material since they were supposed to be included in the delayed Absalom book IIRC.

[Perpdepog]

Real surprised that Fleshwarp and Fetchling are their own ancestries rather than heritages. On consideration I understand Fetchlings, unlike the other planetouched ancestries they are specifically called out as being a human colony on the Shadow Plane, but Fleshwarp feels more like a heritage to me.

Then again, this does mean we could potentially get things like Angelborn Fleshwarps, which sounds real weird, and real fun.

[The-Magic-Sword]

Perpdepog wrote:

Real surprised that Fleshwarp and Fetchling are their own ancestries rather than heritages. On consideration I understand Fetchlings, unlike the other planetouched ancestries they are specifically called out as being a human colony on the Shadow Plane, but Fleshwarp feels more like a heritage to me.

Then again, this does mean we could potentially get things like Angelborn Fleshwarps, which sounds real weird, and real fun.

Aasimar Fetchlings anyone?

[Ediwir]

Imma just quote the bestiary here, if that’s ok.

bestiary 1 wrote:

Angelic scions are known as aasimars, fiendish scions are called tieflings, and monitor scions are urobians.

Source: http://2e.aonprd.com/MonsterFamilies.aspx?ID=81

Now who are we missing from this list?

[CorvusMask]

Urobian IS ganzi, aphorite and duskwalker as far as I know. Thats what I remember hearing from the Q&A thread

Anyway, Fetchling being ancestry does make sense in that its "descended from humans", but on other hand you'd think there would exist some sort of "shadow touched" planar scion :'D

[AnimatedPaper]

CorvusMask wrote:

Anyway, Fetchling being ancestry does make sense in that its "descended from humans", but on other hand you'd think there would exist some sort of "shadow touched" planar scion :'D

So we'd need Positive and Negative scions to complete the "Geniekin" set, and a 5th category for transitive planar scions for Shadow, First World, Etheral, and Astral.

The two Dimensions of Dream and Time could be including with the Transitives, but also could be their own thing.

[cavernshark]

Perpdepog wrote:

Real surprised that Fleshwarp and Fetchling are their own ancestries rather than heritages. On consideration I understand Fetchlings, unlike the other planetouched ancestries they are specifically called out as being a human colony on the Shadow Plane, but Fleshwarp feels more like a heritage to me.

Then again, this does mean we could potentially get things like Angelborn Fleshwarps, which sounds real weird, and real fun.

I think given the inherent amalgam nature of flesh-warping, it makes the most sense that it's a base heritage where other versatile heritages can be layered onto it.

Valais Durant in PFS:

She was effectively a human grafted with demon parts so it makes sense that this would be possible as Fleshwarp with Tiefling heritage.

I have to imagine that Fleshwarps will some kind of ancestry feat that lets them take another base race heritage, akin to Elf Atavism for half-elves. This would let you build something like a mana-wastes mutant who might originally have been a dwarf and so has some dwarf features, but who also has some versatile heritage elements.

I also hope we do get Mortics as the last versatile heritage because that also addresses the incredible range of ancestries that would have been affected by the Whispering Tyrants rise.

[Elfteiroh]

It was confirmed that Fleshwarp would get a "cyborg" heritage, that their body has been grafted with so many technological augments that they don't count as their "base" ancestry anymore. (We don't have the name, just that their "warping" is technological in nature)

[Ched Greyfell]

Is this going to be like the PF1 race guide where it has rules for building your own ancestry?

[Albatoonoe]

Crazy idea, but what about a fleshwarp versatile heritage? The Ancestry can represent something far beyond the pale, while the heritage can give your orc a freaky third arm.

[The Raven Black]

Ched Greyfell wrote:

Is this going to be like the PF1 race guide where it has rules for building your own ancestry?

I most sincerely hope it does not have a point-buy system in any case. That system in PF1 opened one of the biggest can of worms I saw, doubly so since it was in a player-facing book.

Shudders.

[Rysky]

The “race-building” is already opened up since you build your Ancestry through Heritage and Feats and can build from there, a point system would be out of place and not really work with it.

[The-Magic-Sword]

I was thinking about this the other day when someone posted about a 'dragon born' style ancestry on reddit, because the cowardly/humorous parts of Kobolds are only in optional ancestry feats, they're completely avoidable-- which means they can be played entirely as a dragonborn equiv that happens to be a little on the smaller side, since you're pretty much building out your 'version' of that ancestry out of the pieces curated for them.

Which, incidentally, that'll be even easier since Kobold is one of the ancestries getting feats in this book, so I'm sure a few more non-humorous options are included amidst their new stuff.

[AnimatedPaper]

Ched Greyfell wrote:

Is this going to be like the PF1 race guide where it has rules for building your own ancestry?

Definitely not in this book, no. Not anything like enough room for it.

It can be done; the ancestry base is easy enough to set points to and feats have fairly consistent power levels. I plan to update my own version (on the homebrew forum if you’re curious) by the end of the month with this book’s options included.

Something like that would probably be in a gamemaster rulebook, not the Lost Omens line.

[PossibleCabbage]

The thing about "ancestry building" in PF2 is that it' basically just "come up with some heritages and some feats" which isn't really something you can ascribe point values to.

Since PF2 ancestries really don't carry much besides- HP, movement speed, attribute bonuses/flaws, and perhaps special senses- everything else comes from feats/heritages.

It's neither simpler nor more complex to homebrew "new feat for a new ancestry" compared to "new feats for an existing ancestry" or like "new fighter feats."

[Perpdepog]

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I was thinking about this the other day when someone posted about a 'dragon born' style ancestry on reddit, because the cowardly/humorous parts of Kobolds are only in optional ancestry feats, they're completely avoidable-- which means they can be played entirely as a dragonborn equiv that happens to be a little on the smaller side, since you're pretty much building out your 'version' of that ancestry out of the pieces curated for them.

Which, incidentally, that'll be even easier since Kobold is one of the ancestries getting feats in this book, so I'm sure a few more non-humorous options are included amidst their new stuff.

And really, making yourself medium isn't that difficult, either. Strictly speaking it doesn't even require stat adjustment; you can just be medium with GM permission. You could muck around with the initial stat boosts too, but as long as it equates to the same number as the other ancestries that shouldn't be a problem, either.

[AnimatedPaper]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

The thing about "ancestry building" in PF2 is that it' basically just "come up with some heritages and some feats" which isn't really something you can ascribe point values to.

Of course you can. It's not even difficult. I homebrewed something for the base stats part, and I'm pretty certain I'm in the neighborhood of whatever they use themselves (be it points, a dart board, slips of paper in a hat, whatever). I suppose you could do something for feats as well; I sort of did that as well, but I don't have it nailed. I'll think that I do, and then they'll print a new feat or heritage and out the window it all goes. At least one thing I'm certain I got wrong was that I was assuming heritages were weaker than 1st level ancestry feats, but that is not the case.

That's partly why I'm looking forward to this book coming out. I hope to have enough data between this, the APG, and LOCG to finally get a bead on it all.

[Dargath]

Oh... so no Minotaur or Gnoll. I don’t know why I was hoping for that, but I am still disappointed they’re not here at all.

[Sporkedup]

Dargath wrote:

Oh... so no Minotaur or Gnoll. I don’t know why I was hoping for that, but I am still disappointed they’re not here at all.

We knew those weren't coming. Gnolls are coming in June with the Mwangi Expanse book.

I do personally hope we see minotaurs before too long, along with more big (whether or not mechanically Large) ancestry choices.

[Dargath]

Sporkedup wrote:

Dargath wrote:

Oh... so no Minotaur or Gnoll. I don’t know why I was hoping for that, but I am still disappointed they’re not here at all.

We knew those weren't coming. Gnolls are coming in June with the Mwangi Expanse book.

I do personally hope we see minotaurs before too long, along with more big (whether or not mechanically Large) ancestry choices.

Oh awesome, I did not know about the Mwangi Expanse book. I actually don’t keep up with Pathfinder news very much (reading blog posts, etc).

I guess this is because I grew up with Warcraft 3 and the noble Savage Horde, but I really tend toward bestial and monstrous races, such as Tengu, Bugbears, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Minotaurs, Orcs, Gnolls and so on. Seeing as how I saw that this book was going to expand upon the Lost Omens character guide ancestries such as the Lizardfolk, and Hobgoblin, I had hoped for such bestial races. The Skrix look pretty cool. A lot of the others just seem like different flavors of human though, after googling them.

I come from a D&D background and actually chose to play 4th Edition and loved it back when Pathfinder was birthed and actively chose not to play Pathfinder 1E, so I’m not very familiar with... any of it. None of the lore or expectations or anything.

[Sporkedup]

They've changed up some of it here, too. I'm assuming you got human vibes from Aphorite, Ganzi, ifrit, suli, sylph, oread, and undine? Bright side is those are now all universal heritages, meaning any ancestry can have them--not just humans!

Sprites, fleshwarps, and Strix are all not very human. Kitsune a little bit.

I don't have the book so can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure fetchlings, androids, and azerketi are all more post-human than anything? So I get the human vibes there, for sure.

I too am very keen on monstrous stuff. As a player, I love playing the minotaur tribe's resident detective or the half-giant mountain druid. Maybe some day!

[Dargath]

Sporkedup wrote:

They've changed up some of it here, too. I'm assuming you got human vibes from Aphorite, Ganzi, ifrit, suli, sylph, oread, and undine? Bright side is those are now all universal heritages, meaning any ancestry can have them--not just humans!

Sprites, fleshwarps, and Strix are all not very human. Kitsune a little bit.

I don't have the book so can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure fetchlings, androids, and azerketi are all more post-human than anything? So I get the human vibes there, for sure.

I too am very keen on monstrous stuff. As a player, I love playing the minotaur tribe's resident detective or the half-giant mountain druid. Maybe some day!

Yes, I get human vibes from all of these elemental flavor heritages because for all intents and purposes they’re something close to Triton and/or Genasi of various types.

Kitsune is very non-human definitely, and I assumed Android was the pathfinder answer to Warforged. I genuinely don’t know what a fetchling or Azerketi are. Strix seem to be Pathfinders answer to Aarakockra but with human faces instead of bird heads. I have no clue what a fleshwarp is but when I googled it it appeared like a chaos spawn from Warhammer.

Sprites are cool and so would Satyrs and Centaur!

I’m not upset with the book, I guess I just hoped it would be really exotic instead of smatterings of exotic with more “I’m a half-elemental” vibes.

[Sporkedup]

It's a lot more exotic than you think.

PF2 now has 15 versatile heritages that can be applied to literally any ancestry. 14 of them were previously only available on humans. Now you can have tiefling orcs or ifrit gnomes or half-elven leshies, however you can narratively justify it! This is a big step away from traditional Pathfinder and especially D&D.

Android is nothing near a warforged, nope. :)

Fleshwarps are new and a broad category. Think closer to Frankenstein's monster or something messed with alchemically. I don't know the extent of these things but they've never been a playable ancestry in any D&D game I've heard of.

I think when you get in and start looking at it, you'll be surprised how weird some of this is. Neither Pathfinder 1e not D&D 5e ever has released such a motley and bizarre collection of possible characters. This is Frodo and Sam looking for help to get to Mordor but instead of asking Smeagol for help they visit Mos Eisley.

[Ventnor]

Dargath wrote:

Sporkedup wrote:

They've changed up some of it here, too. I'm assuming you got human vibes from Aphorite, Ganzi, ifrit, suli, sylph, oread, and undine? Bright side is those are now all universal heritages, meaning any ancestry can have them--not just humans!

Sprites, fleshwarps, and Strix are all not very human. Kitsune a little bit.

I don't have the book so can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure fetchlings, androids, and azerketi are all more post-human than anything? So I get the human vibes there, for sure.

I too am very keen on monstrous stuff. As a player, I love playing the minotaur tribe's resident detective or the half-giant mountain druid. Maybe some day!

Yes, I get human vibes from all of these elemental flavor heritages because for all intents and purposes they’re something close to Triton and/or Genasi of various types.

Kitsune is very non-human definitely, and I assumed Android was the pathfinder answer to Warforged. I genuinely don’t know what a fetchling or Azerketi are. Strix seem to be Pathfinders answer to Aarakockra but with human faces instead of bird heads. I have no clue what a fleshwarp is but when I googled it it appeared like a chaos spawn from Warhammer.

Sprites are cool and so would Satyrs and Centaur!

I’m not upset with the book, I guess I just hoped it would be really exotic instead of smatterings of exotic with more “I’m a half-elemental” vibes.

Versatile Heritage means that the half-mortal part of the half-elementals doesn't need to be human. It could be dwarven, or hobgoblin, or gnoll (once the Mwangi book is released, of course).

[The Raven Black]

The Raven Black wrote:

I predicted the Strix :-)

I and others believe the 8th Versatile Heritage will be Werefolk (or whatever name they choose to replace the ill-advised PF1 name).

And here I was right : Strix (Ancestry) and Beastkin (Heritage). Both are Rare.

[AnimatedPaper]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

Anyway, Fetchling being ancestry does make sense in that its "descended from humans", but on other hand you'd think there would exist some sort of "shadow touched" planar scion :'D

So we'd need Positive and Negative scions to complete the "Geniekin" set, and a 5th category for transitive planar scions for Shadow, First World, Etheral, and Astral.

The two Dimensions of Dream and Time could be including with the Transitives, but also could be their own thing.

Alright, I'm going to procrastinate by felshing this out.

Positive: Negative resistance is obvious, though I'm tempted to give them stabilize.
Negative: Equally obvious, positive Resistance and negative healing.

Wanderkin for the transitive and dimensional planar scions.
I'll hold off on First World and Shadow for now, but I suspect Shadow is going to get darkvision (no low-light stepping stone, just go straight to the end) and first world might get the chameleon heritage.
Ethereal - A reaction to reduce physical damage I think.
Astral - here I don't know. Perhaps Bestiary 3 will give me ideas.

[The Raven Black]

The Astral plane seems to be all about travel to me. Some teleporting ability would be fitting IMO.

[AnimatedPaper]

At level 1 though? Well, maybe. I DID want a teleportation cantrip, so that would make sense. Maybe sudden shift, allowing you to move 1 square as a verbal action without provoking AoO (essentially stepping into difficult terrain)?

[PossibleCabbage]

I'm not sure we need planar scions for the positive and negative energy planes. It feels like those places are so inimical to ordinary forms of life that such a thing would be nigh-on impossible.

Like you send an ordinary human to either of those places and they're just going to die quickly unless they're singularly hard to kill (like a high level PC).

[AnimatedPaper]

Er...fire is pretty inimical to human life too. As would be the water plane. You can survive those with magic, but the same is true of negative and positive planes.

Besides, they don't have to be literal scions. It is quite enough to have them merely suffused with energy in a manner that causes the transformation, much as a leshy with a versatile heritage probably isn't a literal descendant of an archon, but more of a blessed radish.

Also, I didn't mean "need" in quite that manner. I meant that we'd need those two to complete all inner planes, not that it is an actual, missing option we should fill in game.

[PossibleCabbage]

Well, if we're talking about "infused with positive energy" what would be the difference between a hypothetical positive energy scion and a native of the First World (which is right up next to the PEP, but supports life).

Like the First Worlders are so suffused with positive energy, they don't die permanently.

[AnimatedPaper]

Most obvious difference would be the overwhelming influence of Fey on the First World scion. They are so entwined with the magic of the plane that petitioners don't even form there; instead the petitioner is reincarnated as a fey creature. So a first-world scion would be closer to a Changeling than a Jyoti.

I don't foresee any great difficulty in homebrewing two different versatile heritages. Though on reflection, it may well make sense to combine First World/Positive, and Shadow/Negative, and use specific lineages to split the two planes apart. While I can do separate, the positive and negative ones would not be as interesting as Geniekin, or as varied, I don't think.

[Albatoonoe]

Aren't there Aasimar for Jyoti or am I misremembering?

[Elfteiroh]

Albatoonoe wrote:

Aren't there Aasimar for Jyoti or am I misremembering?

I found Aasimar descended from these Garuda, but not Jyoti

[TiwazBlackhand]

Anyone want to hazard a guess at how PFS will gate these?

[Albatoonoe]

Elfteiroh wrote:

Albatoonoe wrote:

Aren't there Aasimar for Jyoti or am I misremembering?

I found Aasimar descended from these Garuda, but not Jyoti

Ah, that is what I was thinking of.

[The Raven Black]

TiwazBlackhand wrote:

Anyone want to hazard a guess at how PFS will gate these?

Shoony Ancestry (Rare) is 160.

Orc and Aasimar (both Uncommon) are 80. As are most Uncommon Ancestries and Heritages.

Catfolk and Hobgoblin, though also Uncommon, are 120. I guess based on their relative rarity in the Pathfinder Society proper.

I think the new Ancestries and Heritages will follow suit :

Uncommonest ancestries and heritages (Aphorite and Ganzi IMO) will be 120.
Mere Uncommon will be 80.
Rare (Android, Beastkin, Fleshwarp, Sprite, Strix) will be 160.

[Ravingdork]

The Raven Black wrote:

TiwazBlackhand wrote:

Anyone want to hazard a guess at how PFS will gate these?

Shoony Ancestry (Rare) is 160.

Orc and Aasimar (both Uncommon) are 80. As are most Uncommon Ancestries and Heritages.

Catfolk and Hobgoblin, though also Uncommon, are 120. I guess based on their relative rarity in the Pathfinder Society proper.

I think the new Ancestries and Heritages will follow suit :

Uncommonest ancestries and heritages (Aphorite and Ganzi IMO) will be 120.
Mere Uncommon will be 80.
Rare (Android, Beastkin, Fleshwarp, Sprite, Strix) will be 160.

Can you please provide additional context for those who lack much exposure to PFS? I don't know what any of those numbers mean.

[The Raven Black]

Ravingdork wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

TiwazBlackhand wrote:

Anyone want to hazard a guess at how PFS will gate these?

Shoony Ancestry (Rare) is 160.

Orc and Aasimar (both Uncommon) are 80. As are most Uncommon Ancestries and Heritages.

Catfolk and Hobgoblin, though also Uncommon, are 120. I guess based on their relative rarity in the Pathfinder Society proper.

I think the new Ancestries and Heritages will follow suit :

Uncommonest ancestries and heritages (Aphorite and Ganzi IMO) will be 120.
Mere Uncommon will be 80.
Rare (Android, Beastkin, Fleshwarp, Sprite, Strix) will be 160.

Can you please provide additional context for those who lack much exposure to PFS? I don't know what any of those numbers mean.

Those are amounts of Achievement Points. The PFS "currency" you use to buy boons, which include playing an ancestry that is not core PFS (= CRB ancestries + kobold).

[Ravingdork]

Thanks!

[TiwazBlackhand]

Do you think they'll toss us a "Free" ancestry and/or heritage, like they did with Kobolds?

[PossibleCabbage]

TiwazBlackhand wrote:

Do you think they'll toss us a "Free" ancestry and/or heritage, like they did with Kobolds?

My guess is that's going to be either a "season" thing or a response to some metastory that unfolds.

[The Raven Black]

A discount on a Rare is possible too. I believe it is currently the case for Shoony.

[Ly'ualdre]

I feel like the closest thing to Planar Scions for the Postive and Negative Energy Planes would probably be decendants of the Manasaputra and Nightshades respectively. The Jyoti and Sceaduinar could maybe function as ancestors too, but seem more unlikely. Perhaps a general Heritage for each Plane with Lineages tied to some of their native inhabitants?

While maybe not wholly neccesary to have Scions from those Planes, it wouldn't hurt imo. After all, there are character options and creatures that suggest the possibility of being so infused with Positive and Negative energy, yet not so much so that it becomes a detriment to them. After all, things exist in and can survive on both Planes. So, anyone descended from such creatures would likely be able to survive just the same.

So, technically, I think it is probable. Idk if that is a direction the dev team would ever go though. My only real arguement against it, as far as lore goes, is that the Negative Energy Plane is so antithetical to life as a whole, that it doesn't even have Petitioners. So, that might be problematic to a degree. Not sure how much of a problem it would actually be, considering there are living things that somehow manage to call the Plane home.

[TheLoneCleric]

I kinda wish the Shoony info would get reprinted from the AP so it could be in one place.

[The Raven Black]

Archives of Nethys does this. So I do not think Paizo will do it.

This way they avoid the reprinting of previous material that had some people angry at some PF1 books.

When you have already paid for the material in another book, reprinting it means you pay for it twice AND it takes up several pages that could have been used for new material.