Thesing the Vampire

Ched Greyfell's page

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 249 posts (750 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 alias.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ohhhhh. Okay. I completely misread that.
It's to keep the player from pulling some rules lawyer crap and saying, "Technically, I never left my square, so..."
Gotcha.


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Okay. Yea, I know casting spells with the manipulate trait triggers attacks from creatures who have them.
I just didn't know if there was an equivalent to casting defensively.
I see the answer is no.

I also wondered if there was an equivalent to tumbling past someone to avoid the attack of opp.
Acrobatics says you can use it to move through an enemy's square and avoid being hit. It seems like if you can use it to move through an enemy's occupied square, you should be able to move around it in the same way. Right?


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In PF1 there was a concentration check to avoid getting hit.
Is there anything similar in PF2? I haven't seen anything in my perusings.
For like if a wizard is casting next to a fighter or barbarian or something.


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If I get to this spot, I'm gonna keep it simple.
Keep proficiency going up by level, as normal.
And add abilities they can choose from every other level or so. Such as an epic or mythic proficiency (+10) that can be added to a skill or save of their choice. Some slightly more powerful feat choices.
Just a fun way to keep it going. But where they have to make tough choices. Can't have it all at once.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
The first of those is actual metagaming, and completely unacceptable. The second is okay if the Druid starts yelling "It regenerates. Use fire!", IMO.

Which I would be fine with.

But it's like this. I tell the druid player. And before anything else is done or said, the fighter says, "Okay, now that I know.." as if he had spent an action. If the druid says, "I yell 'Use fire!'" it's totally fine. But it doesn't go down like that.


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I'm fine-ish with the example you gave.
I have the player that will be playing a 4th level fighter, who's never seen a troll in his life, and immediately looks at the wizard's player and says, "Troll. Use acid splash."
Or if the druid who is 100 feet away spends an action to make a knowledge check, this same fighter player will say, "Now that we know this creature's weaknesses, I take out a flask of alchemist's fire."
Peeves me the eff off.


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corwyn42 wrote:

Pathbuilder2e for the android is good. It doesn't have support for deities so domain spells and related things have to be done manually. It only has the CRB included. Not sure if there are plans for the app to get updated.

It is free, so if you have an android device it is worth downloading.

I use it. And it had the LO Character Guide options months ago.


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Gorbacz wrote:
The NPC gallery was alone worth the book price.

Main reason I got it. Would've (and still would) paid for an NPC Codex. But there's a good amount of NPCs in this one.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Action Economy. Cantrips useful all the way up. Healing in between fights that keeps you up and running, but takes enough time to where it's not spammed or abused.


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Die Hard. No question.
I mean, take them both when you get the chance. But I have seen Die Hard save half a dozen PC lives.
In Strange Aeons (PF2) we were under an effect that made our dying condition happen at 1 less. So we'd be dead at Dying 3. My monk had Die Hard. And I was so glad I took it.


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Also, as for the Fantasy Grounds thing, when using the parser, it's [[A]] for one action, [[AA]], etc. Reaction is [[R]]. And Free is [[F]].
When you put them that way, the symbols pop up on the sheet.


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In my games, everyone has just been playing their character and doing stuff. I haven't heard anyone say that the other characters get to do more things than them, or this or that.
The sorcerer casts a 2 action spell and moves, or casts guidance (I let them use it once per combat on each person, instead of once per hour or day or whatever the spell says).
I haven't heard any dissatisfaction voiced. Obviously, mileage varies.


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Instead of belated Monster Monday, it should be Taco Tuesday. I mean Monster Tuesday. You can't keep every day as Monday. That would depress the working class.


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A ranger with the flurry option on his prey can use the 3rd attack quite handily (I know it's a corner case). Also, a fighter with a halberd can hit twice from 10 feet away, then back up five feet with his 3rd action. If they move up on him, whammo.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In the past (PF1), fluff text was included before the stat block of a feat or spell.
The thing about enemies is in the actual spell description paragraph. It's not in a little snippet before the spell stat block or anything.
It says enemies in the area. Allies are not in the area, because they're not included.
I think to pick it apart and say this or that part of the spell description is or isn't fluff text is overthinking it.
It says enemies. I'd go with enemies.


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Ckorik wrote:
Well NPC lizardfolk villages can exist without any statblocks at all. The (age old) problem is when the players decide that there is going to be a fight anyway.

Yea. But, if this happens, it's so easy to either grab some stats out of the Bestiary or use the charts in the GMG. Although, many women and children lizards wouldn't be much of a fight vs well-armed PCs.

Oh, the humanity. Er...lizardity.


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My advice, use two computers. Start up Fantasy Grounds. Set the second computer (the player view) to send the map to a large screen TV for everyone to see.

I love minis. Collecting (and painting, when they used to come only blank) them and getting props used to be a lot of fun. But I just don't have the time or space for the clutter anymore.

The GM in my Starfinder game uses the pawns collections, and he also uses cardstock and prints his own and puts them in a base.
The cool thing about that is he can find images for PCs, and print just the head and shoulders closeup, to keep them apart from the monsters.


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In Zombicide: Black Plague, as soon as you hit the yellow XP marker, you get a 4th action per round! Let's do that.


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The reason I do Athletics that way is one of the devs, maybe Jason, used it as an example in a stream of other rolls you could make for initiative. He used kicking in the door as an example. So that's where I got it.
I had just been confused on how it works.


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I'd spend my hero point to have someone take my place and lay down in front of the bulldozer for me.


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In PF1, I would say the fisherman rescuing the PC was perfectly viable. Hero Points were gained 1 per level with a max of 3. In PF2, you get a Hero Point at the beginning of every game session. A free get-out-of-death-free card every session is kind of wah-wah-wah to me.


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Whew. Okay.
And I watched those videos too.
Thanks so much, you guys. This discussion really helps me.
I love this game so much. I know the rules for PF1 backwards in my sleep. And I'm trying my best to become masterful at PF2 to make my game run as smoothly at the table as I can.


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Staffan Johansson wrote:

3. Rogue rolls poorly, but not as poorly as the enemy. So the rogue wins initiative, but fails to beat Perception DC. He is spotted, but at least gets to act first.

So far, these have all been relatively straight-forward. But this is where it gets a little funky.

4. Rogue loses initiative but beats the enemy's Perception DC. This means that the Rogue is undetected, but not unnoticed. The enemy knows something's up but not what. The enemy can now start moving about and use actions to Seek.

#3 confuses me slightly, so I'll try to see if I can figure out what you mean.

So... rogue rolls poorly on Stealth, and doesn't beat their Perception DC. But their Perception DC isn't their initiative.. just his target number. So they then roll Perception for initiative, but roll lower than the rogue. So, his Stealth was a low number, and he gets spotted as a result, but it's also his initiative result, which is higher than theirs.
Am I getting that right?

Jeez louise, I'm sorry to be stirring all this up. I'm just trying to get my head around it and make sure I'm doing it right.


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Squiggit wrote:

The second use of the hero point allows you to use it to "avoid death."

It seems kind of mean spirited and contrary to the written intent of the mechanic for a GM to let someone spend a hero point, stabilize, then rule that they immediately drown.

That's just my 2c tho.

Avoid death for how long, tho?

You're avoiding death while in the middle of a situation that will just cause death again.

Can they avoid death, take a nap, and get their spells back after a good night's sleep in the lake?


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N N 959 wrote:
In the games I've played, if I tell the GM I want to track, but will use Perception for an Init check, they've never denied that request so long as I make it before I roll the Survival check.

Oh, absolutely. The point is definitely not to be a jerk or to penalize the player.

Just to not let someone say they want a different skill roll because they rolled low in the first place.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Okay. That answers my main question, then. At least about the Athletics example. It's the same roll.

As far as a player rolling poorly and having them use the same roll. For Stealth, I'd say yes. You don't only get to use the same roll if it's good.

But for your Deception example, where he doesn't decide to start a fight until his Deception roll fails, and he's upset about it.
I see your point. Because the fight hasn't started at that point. He decides to start it because of the failed roll.
Maybe have him roll Deception again to see if he can swing before the other guy notices?
That's a tough one.


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N N 959 wrote:
Ched Greyfell wrote:
Am I right? Wrong? Dumb? Misguided? Sleepy?

In nearly all situations, you can default to Perception on both sides.

Rules p.468 wrote:
Typically, you’ll roll a Perception check to determine your initiative—the more aware you are of your surroundings, the more quickly you can respond. Sometimes, though, the GM might call on you to roll some other type of check.

My confusion wasn't about what to roll for initiative. Using Athletics for initiative I actually got from a Jason B example.

My question was about whether the initiative required a second roll.

But I'll check the vids. Thanks.


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My response would be (and I know it's wrong to use real life for game scenarios) that holding your breath is a conscious action. If you dropped an unconscious (not just sleeping) person in the lake, they'd take in water and drown.

In example 2, a Hero Point to reroll the Fortitude save for drowning.
But I don't think you can use it to stabilize. I mean, you could. But if you dropped an unconscious and stable person in the water, they'd drown.


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Yea. The trigger is a "A creature targets you with an attack" not "you are hit by an attack."


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I feel slow that I haven't got the full grasp of this after 7 months. But I'm going to give a couple of scenarios to make sure I'm getting this right.

1) Fighter walks up to the door. Listens. Hears some orcs on the other side. He decides to kick in the door and bust in on them.
He rolls a 27 for Athletics. The door breaks. It's initiative time. Since his Athletics was 27, that's what he uses for initiative. Orcs roll Perception for theirs as normal.
2) Fighter listens at door, yada yada. Kicks it in. Gets a 27. Door breaks. Now it's time for initiative. He rolls Athletics separately for initiative. Gets a 12 or something. Orcs roll Perception for theirs.
3) Fighter kicks at door. Gets a 12. Door doesn't break. Orcs are alerted. His initiative score is 12 for his Athletics roll. etc etc

Then. Stealth is the one that gets me. A character is surprising somebody (lower-case surprise. As there is no Surprise).

1) Rogue sneaks up on a creature. Gets a 32 Stealth roll. Creature's Perception roll (or passive Perception score) is a 19. Rogue wins. He decides at that point to attack. His initiative is 32 (for his Stealth roll). Creature's initiative is 19. Fight starts.
2) Rogue sneaks up. Wins Stealth roll. Decides to attack. Separate initiative rolls. He uses Stealth. Creature uses Perception.

I tend to think it's #1 because... if they rolled initiative again separately, and the creature won initiative... it doesn't even know anything is happening because it didn't see the rogue in the first place. So the whole situation would necessitate on the Rogue going first. Right?

I've been using the first example in the Athletics case. If the fighter kicks down the door, that's his initiative roll.

Am I right? Wrong? Dumb? Misguided? Sleepy?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I saw the title "Performance Issues" and thought it was going to be a totally different type of thread.


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It says, "A bandolier can be dedicated to a full
set of tools, such as healer’s tools, allowing you to draw the tools as part of the action that requires them."

Does this mean you can draw a potion and drink it in the same action? My players all say yes. So, we've been doing it that way.


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All sorts of ways you could do it.
Obviously scaling numbers would continue to scale.
Could say on odd levels, you can choose between training 2 untrained skills or 1 skill from Legendary +8 to Epic +10.
Even levels you can choose from a number of epic/mythic feats (the ability to take skills past Legendary could be one of these feats, even).
And abilities could either stay every 5 levels like usual. Or say every level you boost one score by one boost.

It's really cool the possibilities there are.
I'd probably use it for running Wrath of the Righteous or something.


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Probably the only thing I would've done differently would be to have a couple of the topics in a player book. Deep backgrounds, dual class, and free archetype could've definitely been in APG or something. With a note at the front saying "with GM permission" or something.
But those are small gripes. Nothing major. I'm still in the middle of reading it.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A smaller Bestiary and fewer NPCs is not okay.


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I'd advise being very careful in describing the scene. Describing the wizard as sinister-looking and the bandits as soldiers in uniform could bias the players (they might be in uniform. But maybe just call them men).

It's a cool idea. Just needs to be handled carefully. Don't narrate in any way to steer the players towards thinking they're supposed to help one side or the other.


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I really enjoy short adventures of various levels that can be played in about 3 or 4 game sessions.
I used to love the Dungeon Crawl Classics series. Of course, PF2 is easily converted from any system. So I could still run the old DCC adventures. But it'd be cool to have new ones written for PF2.


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In PF2, especially with the GMG out now, you can convert pretty much any adventure from any rules set or setting, with not a lot of effort.
Want to run Ravenloft or Egg of the Phoenix from 1st edition AD&D? You can even do a lot of the monsters on the fly, and save the hard converting for boss monsters. Get out the handy charts, and figure out whether a creature has low, medium, high, or extreme numbers for a certain stat. Brutes likely have high Fort and low Will. A giant might have moderate AC but high hit points.

It's not the same as "advancing" monsters (by character level or by hit dice). It's easier!


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Be interesting to see how some of the weapons play out stats-wise.
In PF1, a lot of a weapon's power came from damage (obviously) and threat range. Could easily get some overpowered weapons by saying 19-20 x4 crit, or whatever.
So to see their PF2 counterparts will be interesting. Now a lot of a weapon's crunchiness comes from whether it's agile, finesse, etc etc.
Looking forward to the APG, for sure.


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I loved Kingmaker when I ran it several years back. It'd be cool to play it. Especially if it's as good as people say.

As for the OP. If they can make a turn-based game out of a convoluted system like AD&D 1st edition, PF2 seems like it'd be a breeze to make a game out of.
I play PF2 using Fantasy Grounds. So much of it is automated (if you want it to be). Wouldn't be a stretch at all to make a video game out of it.


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Themetricsystem wrote:
Owlcat really did knock it out of the park with Kingmaker and after their next project is done in the next few years..

It takes that long? I backed the kickstarter of Wrath of the Righteous recently. I was thinking it'd be out this year or next year. It's going to be years before it comes out?

I guess at least I got a free download of Kingmaker with my pledge. When it becomes available to me, I'll start that one.


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I spent hours playing Curse of the Azure Bonds back in the day.


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An NPC Codex. The GMG is incredible. It has lots of NPCs of low to mid levels. Combat to skilled to social encounters. I love it.
But I want more. I will pay for a whole hardcover dedicated to NPCs of all levels, up to 20 or even 24.

I expect a Bestiary every year.

And I love the books that cover creature genres. Book of Undead. Book of Dragons. Book of Aberrations. All that sort of stuff.

I'm looking forward to the APG coming up.

I also loved the 3.5 and PF1 books on organizations. PH2 for 3.5, and Faction Guide for PF1, had a chapter on creating your own organizations. And you could gain membership score to grant you and other members little boons as you achieved certain milestones in the group. I love that sort of stuff. I don't know what sort of subsystem they'd have to create.


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Torag is one of my favorite deities. A dwarf with this shield would be doing both well and good.
I like that you can deal fire damage to your attacker. Well... it says adjacent attacker. So, I guess a creature with reach wouldn't take the 2d6 fire?
But at 24 hit points, that's a great item.
And, yea. I did forget about it =p


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Not strictly an evoker. But I did switch out one of Mokmurian's base spells for contagious flame in Chapter 4 of RotR. With the fog up and his goggles, he took the cocky jacked-up fighter from full to negative hit points before he even knew he was being attacked. Made me smile.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One of the guys (Cabbage, maybe?) pointed out that there are shields made of better materials you can get that soak up more damage. So at level 7 or 8, you'd have the option of an adamantine shield or something. So your shield is not always in danger of breaking.
And I feel like the break mechanic is just so that the character doesn't end up with a permanent damage reduction. Makes crafting useful, etc.


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I almost always tend to build the characters with more spread out and rounded stats. I'd much rather have a 14 and a 16 than a 12 and an 18. Because I already know I can make my 16 an 18 at level 5 if I wish to. And I don't feel like it makes characters less effective in any way.


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Eh. No Contagious Flame or Fire Snake.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

PF2 specifically makes it to where you don't have to have a cleric. My group made it thru Fall of Plaguestone (barely) without a cleric. And that's a rough module.
Debuffs are huge. A -1 or -2 to an enemy's AC isn't just a chance to hit it more easily, it's a chance to crit it more easily. Hit & run tactics. Endless cantrips.
PF2 is definitely not PF1. If you try to play like it's PF1 with a 3-action economy, you will cry.


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Yea. Either build the monster yourself. Or just find stats for a similar-ish monster in the Bestiary that is already level 9 or 10. Use those numbers. And tell the party they're fighting gnolls, and show them a picture of gnolls. Done, and done.

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