It could, but that makes little sense to me given its scope and flavor. There’s other ideas that would make a better fit for that. Like the monk itself via class archetypes.
I’m in favor of several slotless casters, as they could adequately cover the “I have 1 area I focus on but I do it really well” that is currently lacking in PF2. The shifter* and kineticist are but two classes this could encompass; there’s others that could easily be included. I had a random idea for a Mistweaver class that was basically the Starfinder Nanocyte class, revised for PF2.
*I also combine the Synthecist Summoner here. They have different flavor, but will result in similar looking PCs and feats. I feel like they could be 2 class paths offered in addition to the creature you first emulate, like how you pick an arcane thesis as well as a school.
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The kineticist is a martial, not a caster. You can give them focus spells and focus cantrips but they shouldn't interact with spell slots at all.
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The kineticist is a martial, not a caster. You can give them focus spells and focus cantrips but they shouldn't interact with spell slots at all.
I agree with this emphatically.
“More classes that do fun things without being a Vancian caster” is all I want, and Kineticist is the poster child for that.
Like the whole point of the kineticist is "you can throw bolts of lightning all day every day, and you only run out if you try to shoot really intense lightning, though the lightning you can throw endlessly gets pretty intense as you level."
There's no point in invoking the four magical traditions here. If we need to put tags on the Kineticist stuff, it should be *only* material essence- you have no access to mental, spiritual, or vital essence.
There's no point in invoking the four magical traditions here. If we need to put tags on the Kineticist stuff, it should be *only* material essence- you have no access to mental, spiritual, or vital essence.
You do.
The force/aether elements are solidly mental, and both wood and void elements are vital. There doesn’t appear to be anything that taps the spiritual essence outside of archetypes (Elysiokineticist specifically), but that seems easy enough.
Besides, every spell attack runs off a particular tradition. Kineticists can break that, but why?
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If Monks have to pick what magic tradition their focus spells come from then Kineticists will have to as well. I could see the elements being tied to different traditions.
Picking either primal or arcane would be really cool I think. Maybe some elements should be strictly one or the other, as animatedpaper said. Arcane for aether, primal for wood/void, and a choice for the rest.
I think that the Occult classes will come out around the time either a Darklands book or an Impossible Lands book are released.
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I think that the Occult classes will come out around the time either a Darklands book or an Impossible Lands book are released.
I’m hoping we see an Impossible Lands AP soon; the imminent return of Nex (and how Geb responds to that) is one of the heaviest -teased plot threads in Lost Omen: Legends. Guns & Gears adding an Alkenstar gazetteer might work for or against this, who knows?
Part of me wonders if we’ve seen a pattern established in 2e: Lost Omens book (Absalom if it had come out according to original plan, Mwangi Expanse) + associated Adventure Path (Edgewatch, Strength of Thousands), and so an AP and setting book to tackle all of that would be a treat. Especially if Jalmeray gets some love! It feels underdeveloped.
James Jacobs recently said there’s no Darklands book on the docket for their next two years.
To a certain extent, but loosely. There are 4 lost omens books and 3 rulebooks a year, but usually only 2 AP paths.
James Jacobs recently said there’s no Darklands book on the docket for their next two years.
Given that we just finished a Darklands themed AP, that doesn’t surprise me. AV went way further into the darklands and occult themes than I’d anticipated.
There are 4 lost omens books ... a year
Have they stated that this is their intention or expectation going forward? The only way we get four this year is if the Absalom book sneaks in under the wire (last I heard, Erik's best guess is maybe November). I kind of wonder if they will prioritize a quarterly Lost Omens release or if they're enjoying two regular and one deluxe settings books annually?
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Until they update the subscription page or say something definitively, or even vaguely, this is all I have to go on:
Paizo releases Pathfinder Lost Omens volumes quarterly, with each issue exploring new facets of the world of Golarion.
I'm assuming they're planning on announcing a timeframe for it and Dead God's Hand either this Friday or at PaizoCon.
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I am very happy that Paizo has proven my lingering doubts wrong so far!
AP, I apologize for making you feel discredited or disparaged. Not my intention.
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Yeah no, Kineticist elements should not be tied to magic traditions, it just makes no sense. Even giving a tradition at all to a kinetic blast is questionable given they were psychics. If they are going to give a tradition occult would honestly be the most fitting, just like psychics.
* P.S. I still dont like the idea of forcing Kineticists to use focus spells. Don't see the reason why they can't have their own resource like Alchemist reagents or Cleric divine font.
They can, but as the entire appeal of the class for me is to not have daily resources to track, I’d rather they have focus or something like panache or solar attunement.
Also, to repeat myself, every spell in the game cast by a PC uses a proficiency based on a magical tradition. What would kinetic blast use instead if not tied to a tradition? (Genuine question, not sarcasm. How do you see it working instead?)
We also need to have less stuff on occult. Kineticists didn’t really fit in OA; I don’t see why they have to remain occult just because they premiered in a book that had little to do with them, especially since Arcane has the mental flavor that justified psychic abilities and access to material based magic.
Although I hope it's not the case, there's always a chance that kinetic blasts are treated as a weapon, and not a spell. Like a special ranged unarmed attack that is improved with handwraps. It's kind of my nightmare, but I could see it happening.
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Not everything obviously supernatural needs to have a magic tradition. Like a Barbarian's ability to breathe fire like a dragon or grow enormous is not tied to a magical tradition.
You can just have kinetic blasts work like "you breathe fire like a dragon" and use your proficiency with kinetic blasts and/or your class DC.
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Hmm...
The Brutal Beauty of the Brawl
For some people, the battlefield is an horrendous place, a nightmarish realm bathed in the blood of good people taken before their time. But for others, it's a thing of beauty. Whether they revel in the misery of their foes, whether they find new inspiration for tales of triumph for their tribe, whether they want to paint a happy ending of peace and understanding, or whether they just enjoy dancing through the rain of arrows and blood without getting a single drop on them, there are many who see a fight not as a realm of death or something to abhor, but as an opportunity to live.
An exciting new take on combat, focusing on the feng shui of the fight, and on how to turn a battle into a beauty pageant, a pummeling into a painting, or a duel into a dance.
[u]Classes:[/u]
1: Introducing... the Skald. A brutal warrior with a flair for style, looking for new tales of heroism to take back to their tribe. This class, reimagined from our past, now has an identity of its own! [Would be restyled as a distinct class instead of just a hybrid, similarly to the Swashbuckler.]
2: Tired after a long trip from Tian, is... the Samurai. A warrior of honour and elegance, her honed blades and skillful movements are a sight to behold. Ending a duel with but a single slash, and not a single wasted motion, or bravely challenging her quarry with an eloquent haiku, few warriors are as stylish as the dutiful samurai.
3: And a new arrival, with a paintbrush in one hand and a brutal carver in the other, he calls himself... the Bleeder. A monstrous brute of a fighting man, his life's goal is to paint the perfect picture of battle, even if he needs to start the battle himself to do it. He thinks art is the blood of life, and he's willing to bring it out one way or another... even if he has to bleed you dry to do it. Literally. [New class, focuses on bleeding damage and affecting morale... one way or the other. Gets stronger the longer they go without Striding and wants to be in or near melee ranges, but doesn't have the AC to just facetank, requiring tactical positioning and play. Probably has a few focus spells connected to the idea, but no slot casting.]
And if that's not enough, where would we be without fanciful new archetypes and feats? After all, your character sheet is a thing of beauty, too, it should be able to paint the perfect picture of both player and character.
[u]Archetypes:[/u]
• Dancer: Uses fancy footwork to step through the carnage, daintily evading any attacks aimed at them. Includes a mix of evasive Stances & reactions, and Acrobatics & Performance skill feats, probably drawing part of its selection from Bard, Monk, and/or Swashbuckler.
• Warrior Poet: A collected warrior who takes inspiration from the fighting around them. Includes a mix of Samurai & Fighter feats, and Crafting & Society skill feats.
• Negotiator: Tired of seeing all these people throw their lives away, the Negotiator has set out to bring a happy ending of peace to the tale. Is a Diplomacy- & Society- based archetype, focused on communications and the like.
(And... would probably also include a few Performance feats, a few Intimidation feats, a few Acrobatics feats, and so on, but nothing in particular comes to mind. A stance or two, as well. Maybe a few spells, but not too many. Maybe an arcane or primal caster archetype?)
Looking at Foxfire that the Kitsune gets, I could see kinetic blast functioning as a ranged "weapon". I wonder if those abilities, and additionally the Water abilities that Azarketi get, are kinda testing out such features.
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Looking at Foxfire that the Kitsune gets, I could see kinetic blast functioning as a ranged "weapon". I wonder if those abilities, and additionally the Water abilities that Azarketi get, are kinda testing out such features.
They are. I think Luis said as much of the Azerketi water abilities specifically, but I can't recall if it was him or a different developer. I remember the what, but no the who. It was on some video podcast (ug).
Edit: I needs to be said that I dislike how those abilities are written. Mostly because of the weapon group. It annoys me to no end that they have distinct traits for weapon groups to create strong themes for them, with most weapons in a particular group having a particular trait or traits, and then they just throw everything into the sling group when they don't fit.
I hope they eventually make a new group for ranged unarmed strikes and errata these all to fit that.
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Numeria should be focused after magic and horror and occult, as playtest document did't say Numeria as where you can use Inventor class.I am 95% certain that one of the APs next year will be at least partially set in Alkenstar, hence why gunslingers and inventors are coming.
I'd be very interested in an AP built around a no casters rule, given that we're just about to get an AP where you can't not play a caster.
Hmm... really, a no-caster AP would be a good opportunity to explore stealthy magic. Even if you can't just cast in public, it's hard to imagine that the mages wouldn't have just snuck in from the shadows, weaving their spells in the dark. Might heavily penalise open casting (e.g., magic is illegal, so being seen casting a spell could get you arrested or lead to more encounters), and encourage sneaky, disguised casting.
I would be okay with Kineticist blast being an unarmed attack, but really only if it automatically scales. 1e kineticist was so cool in that it needed no weapons or items to be a strong offensive presence, I really, reeeally hope that remains in 2e.
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Hmm... really, a no-caster AP would be a good opportunity to explore stealthy magic. Even if you can't just cast in public, it's hard to imagine that the mages wouldn't have just snuck in from the shadows, weaving their spells in the dark. Might heavily penalise open casting (e.g., magic is illegal, so being seen casting a spell could get you arrested or lead to more encounters), and encourage sneaky, disguised casting.
Well no, Alkenstar would be a no-casters setting because magic doesn't work in that region. It's not a "casters are banned" it's "casters literally do not function which is why we have all this tech stuff instead".
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Hmm... really, a no-caster AP would be a good opportunity to explore stealthy magic. Even if you can't just cast in public, it's hard to imagine that the mages wouldn't have just snuck in from the shadows, weaving their spells in the dark. Might heavily penalise open casting (e.g., magic is illegal, so being seen casting a spell could get you arrested or lead to more encounters), and encourage sneaky, disguised casting.Well no, Alkenstar would be a no-casters setting because magic doesn't work in that region. It's not a "casters are banned" it's "casters literally do not function which is why we have all this tech stuff instead".
Ah, my bad. Hmm... that is pretty hard to work around, yeah...
Perhaps kineticist use focus points, but can regain them/ not use then by drawing power. Burn can work similarly to the Oracle curse if you try and perform Talents without the focus to use, and the damage done can be tied to their elements
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Hmm... really, a no-caster AP would be a good opportunity to explore stealthy magic. Even if you can't just cast in public, it's hard to imagine that the mages wouldn't have just snuck in from the shadows, weaving their spells in the dark. Might heavily penalise open casting (e.g., magic is illegal, so being seen casting a spell could get you arrested or lead to more encounters), and encourage sneaky, disguised casting.Well no, Alkenstar would be a no-casters setting because magic doesn't work in that region. It's not a "casters are banned" it's "casters literally do not function which is why we have all this tech stuff instead".
Magic works, it's just unpredictable. Sometimes or in some areas it works normally, sometimes it works but has unintended effects, and sometimes it doesn't work at all. In 1e there was even a metamagic feat and a spell that helped you to cast spells specifically in these types of areas.
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Perhaps kineticist use focus points, but can regain them/ not use then by drawing power. Burn can work similarly to the Oracle curse if you try and perform Talents without the focus to use, and the damage done can be tied to their elements
Focus doesn't work for the Kineticist because "Focus" represents like willpower, and the Kineticist is more about "dig down deep and feel the burn" when you're stressing your body really hard.
We can make new mechanics. People were talking about focus for the swashbuckler, but the panache system they came up with works better.
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Reason number 778 that I hope kineticist is coming out soon - we can finally stop theorizing how it's going to work (not that I don't have a good time doing it)
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Perhaps kineticist use focus points, but can regain them/ not use then by drawing power. Burn can work similarly to the Oracle curse if you try and perform Talents without the focus to use, and the damage done can be tied to their elementsFocus doesn't work for the Kineticist because "Focus" represents like willpower, and the Kineticist is more about "dig down deep and feel the burn" when you're stressing your body really hard.
We can make new mechanics. People were talking about focus for the swashbuckler, but the panache system they came up with works better.
As long as it's not like PF1 burn, which I quite honestly hated as a mechanic.
Something more like alchemist reagents, a divine font, or the wizard's Drain Bonded Item would work better for me. I'm not fully opposed to a daily limit on the top level effects (though I would prefer otherwise), I really dislike it affecting your actual health pool. Having it simply run off your con score would work for me.
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Burn should probably make you more tired, more susceptible to some things, etc. It probably shouldn't make you more likely to die or get knocked unconscious though.
Like Clumsy, Drained, Stupefied, Enfeebled, Dazzled etc. seem like reasonable side effects of the Kineticist overextending themselves in a way that "HP loss" kind of isn't.
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Yeah that would work for me. Well, not Drained, as is too close to burn 2.0 for my taste, but the others would be fine.
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Burn should probably make you more tired, more susceptible to some things, etc. It probably shouldn't make you more likely to die or get knocked unconscious though.
Like Clumsy, Drained, Stupefied, Enfeebled, Dazzled etc. seem like reasonable side effects of the Kineticist overextending themselves in a way that "HP loss" kind of isn't.
You realize that all of those things actually make the Kineticist worse at doing things in a way that HP loss does not, right
Are we really supporting Kineticists taking stacking penalties to their attack rolls as their core class mechanic
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Burn should probably make you more tired, more susceptible to some things, etc. It probably shouldn't make you more likely to die or get knocked unconscious though.
Like Clumsy, Drained, Stupefied, Enfeebled, Dazzled etc. seem like reasonable side effects of the Kineticist overextending themselves in a way that "HP loss" kind of isn't.
You realize that all of those things actually make the Kineticist worse at doing things in a way that HP loss does not, right
Are we really supporting Kineticists taking stacking penalties to their attack rolls as their core class mechanic
Depends on what their attack roll is run off of, doesn't it? If they're using spell attack rolls and their constitution modifier, getting a stacking penalty to dexterity seems more reasonable.
Or just use focus or a a font, so you don't kill yourself with unhealable damage in a game where healing to full after every fight is a reasonable assumption.
Edit: Also, I started a new thread for kineticist discussion to clean up this one.
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I'm glad this thread is still popping off after a few months of being up.
I'd really like an Occult/Horror book that add back the Occultist, Spiritualist, Medium, and Psychic (not kineticist, no!). Potential new class for that bunch might be some form of Cthulhu forbidden knowledge type prepared caster, who carries around multiple book that he switches between to slightly change what/how he cast spells. Not quite the occultist with his implements, but like a Pillars of Eternity wizard with their grimoires.