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The point of this is for me to simultaneously critique every aspect I can think of of the summoner class while also opening up a avenue of discourse to others who can confirm or debate the critiques to hopefully offer various perspectives on the multiple features and feats of the class.
So from the top.
Primary stat: charisma. Other than spells and cantrips I didn't see anything that scaled off your charisma Wich is kinda disappointing. Maybe something similar to clerics font except for summon animal? Would offer a way to summon 10th level animals.
HP: 10? Hot damn that's impressive.
Saves: expert in fortitude and will. Fitting I'd say.
Skills: you get ATM two determined by your eidolon and 3 more before int mod. 5 total. Seems fine.
Weapons: unarmed and simple. This doesn't seem to matter a ton since your primary method of attack would probably be your eidolon anyways.
Defenses: unarmored only. This kinda stings. Means your ac is going to start at probably 16.
Eidolon: this let's you know this is not really an animal companion or summon. It shares your actions instead of having to spend an action to give it two actions. This seems to make it worse in some ways in terms of action economy. It also shares your hp. Also seems to make it worse as it's not really another meat shield, but merely a second body for yourself. Any action or reaction you would take, the eidolon can (so with this something like attack of opportunity should apply? If you were to somehow acquire it). Essentially at base level this means it's less efficient than a ranger with an animal companion.
Act together: this helps shore up the objective fact that your action economy is worse than a animal companion. Spend 1 action for 2. So you could move and the eidolon could attack. You both could attack. You could even cast shield and eidolon attack. Fairly flexible.
Shared senses: given you have 100ft limit this seems niche.
General bonuses: eidolon gaining benefits from your gear, specifically runes. Is pretty huge. Imo.
Spells: you get 5 cantrips and no more than 4 spells per day. 2 at highest and 2 just below. This is incredibly limiting. Combine with your primary stat seeming to not apply to much else and your spell proficiency capping at Master. I don't think it wise to take much that doesn't have lasting value. It also makes me question why I'd ever buff my charisma...
Conduit spells and cantrips: it's focus stuff. I'm a big fan of focus spells in 2e so happy to have them.
Eidolon unarmored expertise: this comes online at level 3. So that means at level 1 your eidolon has maybe 20hp and 16 ac given they have 16 dexterity. This... Is bad. I don't know if I'd want to play one before level 3. Tbh. Your basically a giant instinct barbarian with 1 spell slot. Poor scaling cantrips and no damage. Maybe just carry a bow for a bit...
Ability boosts: thank goodness they apply to the eidolon. This is great.
Eidolon unarmed expertise: glad to see it's proficiency in martial activities scales with that of an actual martial.
Twin juggernaut: extremely welcome. Same for shared resolve.
Eidolons: angel seems best as it's abilities seem least likely to suck once you realize your eidolon DC's are going to suck. Maybe your Cha should be used for the DC's somehow.
Feats: if I don't list one, it's because they were fine and uninteresting to talk about to me. That's all.
Sensory evolution: seems best for the level 1 feats available.
Synthesis: I don't get it. The cost doesn't worth it.
Unfettered eidolon: a use for shared senses.
Reinforce eidolon: focus cantrip. Seems incredibly useful for staying alive, almost mandatory? Wish I could get it at level 1.
Distracting summon spell: summon spells seem to be potentially good uses of your slots considering the small number. So this seems good.
Magical evolution: shield cantrip. Beast eidolon weeps.
Tandem move: action economy manipulation is powerful. So this is powerful.
Hulking evolution: it's a mount now. Enjoy your fireball.
Ostentatious arrival: sounds cool but if your campaign requires you to constantly unsummon your eidolon you mine as well play something else.
Summoner shield evolution: just use a shield?
Ranged evolution: useful though it comes late if you were hoping to play a ranged eidolon.
Boost summons: good if you are focusing on summons.
Protective bond: I can't think of when I wouldn't get this ASAP.
Transpose: sound's cool, actual practical use is limited. Unfettered eidolon though.
Summoners call: sightly more useful. However. Again. Better with unfettered eidolon.
Resilient and spell guard evolutions: these both seem good and very very boring. But very good.
Effortless concentration,: normally I'd skip this but got summoner it's incredibly useful.
Evolution surge: great but also devalues many feats.
Boost eidolon is nice but reinforce seems straight better.
General thoughts: you play a limited spell caster and a mundane martial art the same time. Your limited spells are best used for things that last more than one round. You will spend most of your feats on making your eidolon and by extension you, less likely to die. But only thing that improves your damage is boost eidolon. So your damage will be low as well. You are simultaneously a very poor spell caster and a mediocre martial. Overall it would be fun to play. But I'm not sold on it being rewarding to play. I feel meh about it overall.
The point of this is for me to simultaneously critique every aspect I can think of of the summoner class while also opening up a avenue of discourse to others who can confirm or debate the critiques to hopefully offer various perspectives on the multiple features and feats of the class.
So from the top.
Primary stat: charisma. Other than spells and cantrips I didn't see anything that scaled off your charisma Wich is kinda disappointing. Maybe something similar to clerics font except for summon animal? Would offer a way to summon 10th level animals.
HP: 10? Hot damn that's impressive.
Saves: expert in fortitude and will. Fitting I'd say.
Skills: you get ATM two determined by your eidolon and 3 more before int mod. 5 total. Seems fine.
Weapons: unarmed and simple. This doesn't seem to matter a ton since your primary method of attack would probably be your eidolon anyways.
Defenses: unarmored only. This kinda stings. Means your ac is going to start at probably 16.
Eidolon: this let's you know this is not really an animal companion or summon. It shares your actions instead of having to spend an action to give it two actions. This seems to make it worse in some ways in terms of action economy. It also shares your hp. Also seems to make it worse as it's not really another meat shield, but merely a second body for yourself. Any action or reaction you would take, the eidolon can (so with this something like attack of opportunity should apply? If you were to somehow acquire it). Essentially at base level this means it's less efficient than a ranger with an animal companion.
Act together: this helps shore up the objective fact that your action economy is worse than a animal companion. Spend 1 action for 2. So you could move and the eidolon could attack. You both could attack. You could even cast shield and eidolon attack. Fairly flexible.
Shared senses: given you have 100ft limit this seems niche.
General bonuses: eidolon gaining benefits from your gear,...
Seems like a fair review level 1-2 seems quite bad but at least in my tables those levels go by pretty fast. But yeah he is a mediocre martial with small spellcasting. Basically a different flavor of warpriest IMO what is pretty good since I love the warpriest cleric after all.
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Eidolon should really get their unarmored bump at level 1.
Think it'd be nice if the Summoner themselves got light armor too.
Not a fan of Boost as is. Every martial right now has a damage-enhancing ability (except the Champion) and Boost has the worst action economy and really poor damage scaling. I'm okay with Summoners not doing as much raw damage as Barbarians or whatever, but losing on both ends by having low damage and eating an action every turn feels bad.
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Eidolon should really get their unarmored bump at level 1.
Think it'd be nice if the Summoner themselves got light armor too.
Not a fan of Boost as is. Every martial right now has a damage-enhancing ability (except the Champion) and Boost has the worst action economy and really poor damage scaling. I'm okay with Summoners not doing as much raw damage as Barbarians or whatever, but losing on both ends by having low damage and eating an action every turn feels bad.
Counting that the summoner has a "free" action every turn it seems to balance out.
Counting that the summoner has a "free" action every turn
How so? If you're talking about Act Together, that just gets up up to Animal companion/Familiar+ Master action economy...
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I also think it's abundantly clear the Eidolon should get Expert in Unarmored at 1st level rather than 3rd.
Counting that the summoner has a "free" action every turnHow so? If you're talking about Act Together, that just gets up up to Animal companion/Familiar+ Master action economy...
Sure, except that the Eidolon is almost as good as a full martial, so we're talking almost full martial action economy plus one action from the Summoner. The Summoner's action actually upgrading the Eidolon to full martial level makes a lot of sense from that perspective, since it makes their effective turn on par with martial characters.
Now, I'm not sure it quite does that as is, but it comes fairly close in many ways.
I also think it's abundantly clear the Eidolon should get Expert in Unarmored at 1st level rather than 3rd.
Counting that the summoner has a "free" action every turnHow so? If you're talking about Act Together, that just gets up up to Animal companion/Familiar+ Master action economy...Sure, except that the Eidolon is almost as good as a full martial, so we're talking almost full martial action economy plus one action from the Summoner. The Summoner's action actually upgrading the Eidolon to full martial level makes a lot of sense from that perspective, since it makes their effective turn on par with martial characters.
Now, I'm not sure it quite does that as is, but it comes fairly close in many ways.
Yeah, but if you need to spend that 'extra' action to break with a martial without any feats granting attacks other than strike, it still seems to be behind. All you'll ever do is stride, strike skill checks: take a ranger and an animal companion once and you have a variety of options that aren't stride, strike skill check.
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Very incomplete review in my opinion. You missed the biggest class features of the Summoner: crazy skill monkey, best scout in the game, the Eidolon tanks monsters that your Champion will never want to get close to.
In my opinion, the Summoner is more on the overpowered side of things.
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crazy skill monkey
Huh? Hows this?
best scout in the game
You're going to have to explain this one too.
tanks monsters that your Champion will never want to get close to
Are you reading the same class I am?
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I mean the Summoner can stay right next to the healer with both safely in cover while the Eidolon gets beaten up. If the Champion gets reduced to 0 HP 100 feet away from the party that's a problem. If the Eidolon does it, it's no biggie.
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I mean the Summoner can stay right next to the healer with both safely in cover while the Eidolon gets beaten up. If the Champion gets reduced to 0 HP 100 feet away from the party that's a problem. If the Eidolon does it, it's no biggie.
Sure, but then it's not the eidolon tanking it but the eidolon + a cleric. I could say the same thing about a barbarian with a cleric casting 2 action heals with Reach Spell added for a 60' range... Or that champion we've been hearing about [with the better AC!!!].
In the end we aren't talking about the classes abilities but those of other classes. Being easier to target with healing and harming spells is a two edged sword that works both ways. You can heal the eidolon 100' away by healing the summoner but an enemy can Slow or Phantasmal Calamity the summoner 100' away. Being targeted by a Will save using the eidolon will save from 100' away isn't a boon.
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crazy skill monkeyHuh? Hows this?
best scout in the gameYou're going to have to explain this one too.
tanks monsters that your Champion will never want to get close toAre you reading the same class I am?
The Eidolon has a very desirable trait for a tank: Invulnerability. An Eidolon can't fall unconscious in the stomach of a purple worm. You don't care if an Eidolon is shoved in a pool of acid. If the Eidolon drops because of persistent damage you are in no risk of character death. Every time the situation is really dire or uncertain, the Eidolon will tank not the Champion. Being the best tank for dire situations is enough in my opinion to consider the Eidolon an interesting tank. It's clearly not as good as a Champion, but it's better than Fighters, Barbarians and Rangers.
Have you ever sent your Rogue scouting a dungeon alone in front of the party?
The Eidolon is the best scout in the game because he is invulnerable. Just put it 60 feet in front of the party so he can activate all traps and ambushes with zero risk as the worst that can happen is you falling unconscious 60ft away from harm next to the Cleric. If a combat occurs, just Unmanifest the Eidolon next to you while the party buffs itself and starts the fight at round 2. You remove a lot of danger from dungeons by starting most fights buffed with a Recall Knowledge check done on every enemy.
And on top of that, the Eidolon starts at 16 in Dexterity, can get Legendary in Stealth and benefit from your item bonus. The only thing it doesn't has is skill feats. So he can be a pretty good scout and avoid most of the danger your Rogue would avoid.
The Summoner has a very strong feature when it comes to skills: He has all of them twice. He can act twice more often and roll twice more often than all the other party members. You need to identify 2 items? The Summoner does that in 10 minutes. And if he fails he has a retry. Recall knowledge? 2 checks. And if both check succeeds you have 2 pieces of information like if you made a critical success.
And if multiple characters can't roll the skill check? Aid Another:
"Roll an Arcana check to stabilize the portal.
- I'm Legendary in Arcana so my Eidolon Aid Another on me for a potential + 4 circumstance bonus as he is also Legendary in Arcana."
The only thing the Summoner doesn't have is skill increases. But the best skill monkey in the game is a Summoner with Rogue/Investigator Dedication for Skill Mastery. You can't beat the ability to roll multiple checks at once, to reroll checks you can only roll once and the fact that you always have someone to Aid you with the same skill proficiency you have.
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The Eidolon has a very desirable trait for a tank: Invulnerability.
Not really. It gets KO'd just like anything else would and takes the summoner with it. Not seeing the win or better tanking. So it's better at dying? Is that a plus?
Have you ever sent your Rogue scouting a dungeon alone in front of the party?
The Eidolon is the best scout in the game because he is invulnerable.
Yeah, no. Not invulnerable and it leaves the summoner unable to defend themselves AND with no way to even know what's happening. Cool?
Just put it 60 feet in front of the party so he can activate all traps and ambushes with zero risk as the worst that can happen is you falling unconscious 60ft away from harm next to the Cleric.
So another party member is just carrying you around? You can't really move around without ANY senses. Seems like a very easy going table to allow all of that. What do you do if something attacks from another direction and the Eidolon fails a Perception check? Roll up another character?
The Summoner has a very strong feature when it comes to skills: He has all of them twice
Sure, and most of them start off not adding a stat bonus to them. As such, you're more likely to fail and crit fail with them.
You need to identify 2 items? The Summoner does that in 10 minutes.
So an Arcana? A roll with either a -1 or a 0 for stats to start? Sure...
Recall knowledge? 2 checks. And if both check succeeds you have 2 pieces of information like if you made a critical success.
So a -1 to a +1 for stats... Add to that no skill feat, the rolls are secret and crit fails are wrong answers. More Recall knowledge isn't the same as more correct answers if the bonuses aren't good.
Aid Another
Sure, but it's better if you do it unless it's a dex/str skill: no reason to both do it as the bonuses don't stack.
Aid Another on me
Sure, but the base target is 20 so there is a good chance someone else in the party can do it as well. It's ok to be able to do it yourself but it also counts against your actions possibly limiting what actions you can do.
But the best skill monkey in the game is a Summoner with Rogue/Investigator Dedication for Skill Mastery. You can't beat the ability to roll multiple checks at once, to reroll checks you can only roll once and the fact that you always have someone to Aid you with the same skill proficiency you have.
You're overselling the Eidolon's rolls a LOT. IMO Rogue and Investigator blow a summoner out of the water as a skill monkey just taking their base abilities into account. Start mixing in multiclass and it's not even a contest IMO.
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The Eidolon has a very desirable trait for a tank: Invulnerability.Not really. It gets KO'd just like anything else would and takes the summoner with it. Not seeing the win or better tanking. So it's better at dying? Is that a plus?
Your level 10 party faces a Purple Worm, who would you send tanking it? The Champion or the Eidolon?
Obviously the Eidolon after having enlarged it as it will remove the most dangerous ability of the creature: Swallowing a character and burrowing to finish its snack. Being immune to death is a strong feature for a tank.Yeah, no. Not invulnerable and it leaves the summoner unable to defend themselves AND with no way to even know what's happening. Cool?
Yes, invulnerable. If you find a way to definitely kill an Eidolon without touching the Summoner, please tell me, I'm very interested.
And the Summoner can do whatever he wants. You don't have to use Share Senses continuously. Just use it when the Eidolon is exploring a new place and don't use it when you have to move. Also the Eidolon can scream so you can Unmanifest it without using its senses.Sure, and most of them start off not adding a stat bonus to them. As such, you're more likely to fail and crit fail with them.
The Eidolon has the same attribute bonuses than any other character. If you find a way to start with 18 in all your stats, just give me a call, I'm interested again.
Sure, but the base target is 20 so there is a good chance someone else in the party can do it as well. It's ok to be able to do it yourself but it also counts against your actions possibly limiting what actions you can do.
If all your party members raise the same skill as you I think there's an issue in your party. Most of the time, if your Summoner raises one skill he will be the only one raising it and as such the Eidolon will have a higher bonus than anyone else and a higher proficiency in case of critical successes (only interesting at high level, I agree, but still).
Most of your arguments prove that you haven't thought much about it and you just want to contradict me.
Superbidi makes really nice points on how the eidolon can be exploited.
All his points are solid, the aid action one is amazing, many times other party memebers won't aid you as much as you can help yourself (also in life lol) in some checks. Im going to test some cool tricks summoners can do with this, Thank you for the wokeness superbidi.
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The main issue that people have is with the term 'invulnerable'.
A better term would be 'expendable'. It's like the world's biggest, best familiar which is easier to recall and resummon.
The main issue that people have is with the term 'invulnerable'.
A better term would be 'expendable'. It's like the world's biggest, best familiar which is easier to recall and resummon.
I see what you mean. I'm ok with that, I'll use expendable in the future.
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I have to agree with SuperBidi. I'm not concerned about looking underpowered in front of players who aren't playtesting Summoner.
I'm concerned about explaining how all those exploits I can do, as well as essentially having better stats than everyone for skills AND having the same accuracy and AC as the monks, are totally fine and not a problem.
People don't like being shown up by an NPC pet - and there's a lot a summoner can do exploiting their Eidolon relationship.
Also, my Angel summoners Eidolon is going to be a PITA to kill as I've got four slots to cast Heal with and Medic dedication. Thats... a lot of efficient healing that I can do from 100 ft away while my Eidolon fights.
The eidolon isn't a pet it's an extension of your character it's a persona.It has no actions or hps and cannot achieve anything by itself.
"You have a connection with a powerful and otherworldly entity called an eidolon"
The Eidolon is a pet and achieves whatever it wants by itself. It's actually more than a pet as you can hardly give complex instructions to your Animal Companion when your Eidolon can do whatever you want it to do without you to be around as it has a perfectly normal intelligence.
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The eidolon isn't a pet it's an extension of your character it's a persona.It has no actions or hps and cannot achieve anything by itself."You have a connection with a powerful and otherworldly entity called an eidolon"
The Eidolon is a pet and achieves whatever it wants by itself. It's actually more than a pet as you can hardly give complex instructions to your Animal Companion when your Eidolon can do whatever you want it to do without you to be around as it has a perfectly normal intelligence.
The eidolon can do nothing unless you grant it your actions and they are your actions because you still have them when it's not around.
The eidolon can't even recall knowledge (think) unless you grant it that boon through your actions. The eidolon has no life but what you grant it. It's existence beyond that of conception and idea of a dragon relies upon you invoking/ manifesting it.
Its not a pet when it is manifested it is you and you are it aka a persona.
Sharing actions is a mechanical/game concession, not an in setting one. Its still actually an independent creature that can do things independently.
...just not when you're counting actions because you're playing a Game.
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If I cut it, I bleed, if I scare it, I quiver, if I slow it I am stalled.
What am I? I am me and a I am an Eidolon.
They have mechanically blurred the distinction between an eidolon and summoner to where they are one creature and two bodies.
They have used some of the most evocative mechanics I have ever seen so I am going to take what the mechanics tell me at face value or face some serious cognitive dissonance.
That's nicely poetic.
Another way of looking at it is to use the Drift analogy from Pacific Rim. Two separate beings linked through the bond such that they think and fight as one.
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Your level 10 party faces a Purple Worm, who would you send tanking it? The Champion or the Eidolon?
A summoned creature that doesn't also knock out a party member with it? If its on what can be more expendable, Eidolon doesn't win. Even is it's an Eidolon vs champion debate, it's MUCH more resource intensive to keep the Eidolon standing [less damage, less AC so more damage, less option past 'it strikes'].
Obviously the Eidolon after having enlarged it as it will remove the most dangerous ability of the creature: Swallowing a character and burrowing to finish its snack. Being immune to death is a strong feature for a tank.
So it's as useful as a -1 level Zombie Shambler from a 1st level animated dead AND it gets to damage a party member for FREE for the benefit!!! Well why didn't you say so before! [sarcasm]
The Eidolon has the same attribute bonuses than any other character. If you find a way to start with 18 in all your stats, just give me a call, I'm interested again.
You're missing the point, it DOESN'T have the "same attribute bonuses" as a skill monkey. A skill monkey will toss some points into skills they plan to use: an Eidolon can't and the skills you are showcasing have BAD effects when you crit fail so it's a BIG thing to say bulk rolls make it awesome: it doesn't. 'I can make twice as many Recall checks as you' doesn't sound that great when a much larger percentage are failures and crit failures the they are secret rolls so you don't know what to trust.
If all your party members raise the same skill as you I think there's an issue in your party. Most of the time, if your Summoner raises one skill he will be the only one raising it and as such the Eidolon will have a higher bonus than anyone else and a higher proficiency in case of critical successes (only interesting at high level, I agree, but still).
There is only so many skills. Having a rogue, an investigator or even an Int based caster greatly increases your chances. There are only 16 skills so in a party of 4 you're going to have overlap even before you add in abilities and skills that let you roll without proficiency in the skill. Add to that that some skills are more difficult to aid with so it also narrows the list.
As to "Eidolon will have a higher bonus" I disagree. Even if party member just has Keen Recollection, Untrained Improvisation or Pathfinder Agent Dedication they are likely to be as good or better not even having the proficiency once you take into account the lack of stat bonuses added to the Eidolon.
Most of your arguments prove that you haven't thought much about it and you just want to contradict me.
Well that's pretty condescending. My disagreeing with you is in no way evidence of lack of thought or a desire to argue: I just don't think your points hold much merit.
I'm ok with that, I'll use expendable in the future.
Even with that word, I'd disagree: Eidolon is a class feature as is Cast a Spell. Between the two, casting a spell for a temporary minion, with no impact on the party past the resource expense, is much more expendable than what you need to get the Summoner back to health after letting a purple worm eat them.
The eidolon can do nothing unless you grant it your actions and they are your actions because you still have them when it's not around.
Eidolons do whatever they want. They have the same number of actions than anyone else. You're mixing game mechanics and in-game reality. Wolves don't suddenly lose one action per round the minute they got tamed and became an Animal Companion. A summoned Barbazu can act on his own with 3 actions like all Barbazus. Unless the lore changed and Summoned monsters become mindless, Animal Companions permanently Slowed and Eidolons freeze the second you lace your shoes but I have never seen anything like that anywhere.
If an enemy dominates one of you it dominates both.
Nope. You share actions and hit points, hence the fact that damage, healing, Slowed and Stunned conditions affect you both. But that's all. If your Eidolon is dominated, only him is dominated.
All you say is pure hypothesis. It could be true, but PF1 had a completely autonomous Eidolon and I don't think anything changed in PF2. Eidolon are independent creatures and as such act as they see fit. And unless you show me something stating otherwise, it will just be your own vision of Golarion.
Wait... how DOES dominated work there? "Okay, I choose to have my eidolon have zero actions this turn"If an enemy dominates one of you it dominates both.Nope. You share actions and hit points, hence the fact that damage, healing, Slowed and Stunned conditions affect you both. But that's all. If your Eidolon is dominated, only him is dominated.
All you say is pure hypothesis. It could be true, but PF1 had a completely autonomous Eidolon and I don't think anything changed in PF2. Eidolon are independent creatures and as such act as they see fit. And unless you show me something stating otherwise, it will just be your own vision of Golarion.
Well, I believe they did used to have a bonus to saves against that sort of thing previously, so having implicit protection against these effects isn't exactly unreasonable.
But if the intent is to go that route, it likely deserves a callout somewhere.
Wait... how DOES dominated work there? "Okay, I choose to have my eidolon have zero actions this turn"If an enemy dominates one of you it dominates both.Nope. You share actions and hit points, hence the fact that damage, healing, Slowed and Stunned conditions affect you both. But that's all. If your Eidolon is dominated, only him is dominated.
All you say is pure hypothesis. It could be true, but PF1 had a completely autonomous Eidolon and I don't think anything changed in PF2. Eidolon are independent creatures and as such act as they see fit. And unless you show me something stating otherwise, it will just be your own vision of Golarion.
IMO, since you share actions, Stunned means you both have no actions. "Stunned overrides slowed" so I look at it as an greater form or evolution of Slow and Slow works on the shares actions.
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Where as the eidolon and you are the same character, you share hit points, actions, your minds. If an enemy dominates one of you it dominates both.
Their minds are linked, not shared. Nothing in the playtest dicuments supports your domination assumption.
...one to the point it is seems strange to argue you are two independent creatures when 95% of effects in the world treat you as one.
Two bodies, two creatures.
The Eidolon is a separate entity. It just requires you to manifest.
Your human summoner isn't an angel, agathion, daemon, aberration, or elemental but your eidolon might be. Just unlike other outsiders, it can't manifest outside of its home plane without an anchor.
Domination is a subject that needs to be addressed in the final rules, as it potentially causes the summoner and the eidolon to be at odds as to how they each act. Does dominating one member of the pair dominate both or neither? If they act separately and in opposition, how are the actions split up and who acts first?
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Right now I would be inclined to rule that dominating the Eidolon does nothing (the summoner can just decline to give the Eidolon actions.) Dominating the Summoner gets you both though.
Very incomplete review in my opinion. You missed the biggest class features of the Summoner: crazy skill monkey, best scout in the game, the Eidolon tanks monsters that your Champion will never want to get close to.
In my opinion, the Summoner is more on the overpowered side of things.
Tank? Why? The champion isn't good at tanking because he take hits, he's good at tanking because he punishes foes for trying to hit other people.
As a DM I try to ignore the champion because he does the lowest damage, but that makes it so the creature does less damage to the other party members as the champion blocks his damage every round. This is what makes it costly not to focus on the champion.
Eidolon has no such ability. Their weak damage would have that crazy badass monster ignore the eidolon and move to destroy the more dangerous creatures.
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I have to agree with SuperBidi. I'm not concerned about looking underpowered in front of players who aren't playtesting Summoner.
I'm concerned about explaining how all those exploits I can do, as well as essentially having better stats than everyone for skills AND having the same accuracy and AC as the monks, are totally fine and not a problem.
People don't like being shown up by an NPC pet - and there's a lot a summoner can do exploiting their Eidolon relationship.
Also, my Angel summoners Eidolon is going to be a PITA to kill as I've got four slots to cast Heal with and Medic dedication. Thats... a lot of efficient healing that I can do from 100 ft away while my Eidolon fights.
I truly hope that the designers do not look at this as a fun way to play. Sit on your 4 slots to heal while casting boost eidolon over and over and over again.
So many classes are far more interesting and powerful with a plethora of interesting and useful abilities that do far more damage than the eidolon.
The summoner I'm going to playtest is pretty much going to stand around looking useless and casting boost eidolon constantly to bait people into letting the phantom attack them in return.
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You can describe it however you want, but the summoner and the eidolon are both one and two beings at the same time. one can not exist without the other.
The summoner existed before they figured out how to summon the eidolon.
"You have a connection with a powerful and otherworldly entity called an eidolon..."
So the eidolon existed before the summoner called it to the earthly plane.
Two beings.
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It's not two creatures because the game mechanics don't treat them as two creatures.
It treats them as one creature that can be flanked by twice as many enemies as anyone else and had disadvantage on aoe attacks while doing substantially less than both martials and casters with nothing substantial to show for it but a bunch of corner case examples where you try to exploit what little benefit you get by trying to do things when actions are not required, but they still are because the actions themselves state so.
Sounds extremely poorly designed and a hot mess.
Just seperate the damn hp pool. It's not cute and it's more detrimental than beneficial.
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Just seperate the damn hp pool. It's not cute and it's more detrimental than beneficial.
Hard disagree. Right now, the common hp pool is an asset.
First, you are more resistant to AoEs. If you have 2 hp pools, AoEs deal twice more damage. With current design, they just do the highest of both damage.Second, if the Summoner goes down the Eidolon disappears. So, if the Summoner is targetted, he currently has 10+Con hps per level instead of certainly 6+Con hps. As he is the weakling, it's very nice.
Third, the Eidolon is the one taking most of the damage. I prefer it to have 10+Con hp than the ridiculous 7hp per level of Animal Companions. Losing my Eidolon every two fights would be boring.
Separate hp pools are only interesting if the Summoner and the Eidolon both takes damage, which should not happen often as they have very different positioning. A small drawback for quite many advantages.